LG Announces 2019 OLED Pricing & Availability - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #211 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by New_to_4K View Post
Have you seen A9F and Panasonic OLED perform vs. C8 or this is purely an observation vs. the lower end A8F?
Do you have both all those sets you mentionee side by side to make your assessment? Again my response was more geared to your comment on LG not being to do shadow detail at all, which is completely wrong and misinformed.
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post #212 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 01:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Cam1977 View Post
Yeah i found it ammusing as well!


I sure the 2019s are better there are always incremental improvements, I find it funny the Sony superiority is being touted here , outside of motion I am not buying it and I was staunchly on the other side till I got my C8. Having owned both I feel my opinion is a solid one.


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post #213 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 01:52 PM
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^for sure, i highly you would have kept your C8 if that were the case!
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post #214 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 01:52 PM
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^for sure, i highly you would have kept your C8 if that were the case!


Hard to give up a 77 lol


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post #215 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 01:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Cam1977 View Post
Do you have both all those sets you mentionee side by side to make your assessment? Again my response was more geared to your comment on LG not being to do shadow detail at all, which is completely wrong and misinformed.
I have an LG (with burn-in) and A9F. Panasonic and LG C8 was compared at a store. While I did not notice significant difference between A8F and E8, there were certainly differences between C8 and Panasonic. For starters, skin tone on Panasonic and A9F were more natural and not pink as in the C8.
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post #216 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 01:56 PM
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@chunon the prices of this years 77 is lower than last year at lauch so hopefully it will come down even further...im shooting for end of summer to have ne a 77C9!!!
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post #217 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 01:58 PM
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@chunon the prices of this years 77 is lower than last year at lauch so hopefully it will come down even further...im shooting for end of summer to have ne a 77C9!!!


Do it , you won’t regret it.


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post #218 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 02:00 PM
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Originally Posted by New_to_4K View Post
I have an LG (with burn-in) and A9F. Panasonic and LG C8 was compared at a store. While I did not notice significant difference between A8F and E8, there were certainly differences between C8 and Panasonic. For starters, skin tone on Panasonic and A9F were more natural and not pink as in the C8.
I dont count looking at tvs at the store as an example because their are too many variables. The skin tones you mention can be attributed to panel variance or whatever settings you have. I have a 75940e, 65C7, 65C8, 75q8fn...and the most natural picture to include skin tones goes to both my Non BI Oleds.
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post #219 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 02:01 PM
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Originally Posted by New_to_4K View Post
I have an LG (with burn-in) and A9F. Panasonic and LG C8 was compared at a store. While I did not notice significant difference between A8F and E8, there were certainly differences between C8 and Panasonic. For starters, skin tone on Panasonic and A9F were more natural and not pink as in the C8.


Do you know what calibration is ? That can be corrected pretty easily . I have no doubt the Panasonic’s are awesome they understand color science but Lg has come along way since 2016.


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post #220 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Cam1977 View Post
I dont count looking at tvs at the store as an example because their are too many variables. The skin tones you mention can be attributed to panel variance or whatever settings you have. I have a 75940e, 65C7, 65C8, 75q8fn...and the most natural picture to include skin tones goes to both my Non BI Oleds.
I spent several hours on the sets with the same demo material (brought from home) and tested all the sets that I was considering, including changing the settings on each tv. I shortlisted E8 (on sale) and A9F, but went with the significantly more expensive A9F 65" due to one main reason - Shadow detail. I'm considering E9 as it is bright for my bedroom, but of course there's competition from GZ2000 and Samsung QLEDs.
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The A9F is a better tv overall than the lg c8, im a lg c8 owner, i have seen the a9f last year. Let's not pretend A9F is the same tv as A8F, it's not. A8F is similar to the A1E, compared to both those older models, i would rate the C8 higher overall. A9F is different. Apart from peak brightness and Dolby Vision, two things that C8 does better, A9F is better than C8 in all other respects. Pixel contrast booster on A9F is no marketing, it makes a definite difference to specular highlights and the color volume, with A9F you have the first oled that hits close to 70% volume on the rec. 2020 colorspace.
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post #222 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by chunon View Post
Do you know what calibration is ? That can be corrected pretty easily . I have no doubt the Panasonic’s are awesome they understand color science but Lg has come along way since 2016.


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Yes, I know what is calibration, I see that in your signature too for A8F. There's only so much calibration can do when the display itself is limited to begin with.
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post #223 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
The A9F is a better tv overall than the lg c8, im a lg c8 owner, i have seen the a9f last year. Let's not pretend A9F is the same tv as it A8F, it's not. A8F is similar to the A1E, compared to both those mode, i would rate the C8 higher overall. A9F is different. Apart from peak brightness and Dolby Vision, two things that are better that C8 does better, A9F is better than C8 in all other respects. Pixel contrast booster on A9F is no marketing, it makes a definite difference to specular highlights and the color volume, with A9F you have the first oled that hits close to 70% volume on the rec. 2020 colorspace.
Very well said the A9F is in a different league all together. The Pixel Contrast Booster makes the A9F image looks 3D'ish. The C8 / E8 are in the same league as the A8F.
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post #224 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by New_to_4K View Post
Yes, I know what is calibration, I see that in your signature too for A8F. There's only so much calibration can do when the display itself is limited to begin with.


So there are different classes of oleds? Delusional I am out


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post #225 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 02:19 PM
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@new _to_4K then dont get the LG...just look the launch price of the 65C9, do you think the sony will be anywhere near that price for what you and menari deem superior...yeah...go for it!
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post #226 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 02:21 PM
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So there are different classes of oleds? Delusional I am out


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Yeah smh.
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post #227 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 02:34 PM
 
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Doubtless the lg oleds provide the best VFM and their price to performance is the best of all oled brands, but if you have the extra budget and can shell out for a sony or pana. flagship, it will get you a 10-15% uptick in PQ/motion.
I expect the same to hold true this year as well..LG C9/E9 vs sony A9G and pana. GZ2000.
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post #228 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 02:43 PM
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Since some are speculating on the 2019 LG OLED improvements, here are my findings on a C9 I recently calibrated
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57764872

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post #229 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 02:57 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

This is not exactly correct.

The correct statement would be:

'Samsung can outsell LG at 2019 prices at the 75" and up segment'

At 55" as well as 65", Samsung is ouselling WOLED only with their lower-priced QLED/LCD TVs which are not really competing for the same class of Premium TV customer.

Right now at Best Buy:

55B8 @ $1500 versus 55Q7 @ $1500 (there is no 55Q9 available here in the US to compare against)

65B8 @ $2300 versus 65Q9FN @ $2800

The point is that LG is doing so well selling 55" and 65" WOLED TVs (and panels to Sony and Panasonic) that they don't have any interest in increasibg sales into the relatively smaller 75/77" segment.

Every 77" WOLED panel LG Display manufacturers costs them 3 55" WOLED panels that they could not manufacture...

Perhaps I was a little too general in my statement. I think we are saying essentially the same thing. We for sure agree on the 75" plus premium TV market. It very well may be that LG outsold Samsung in the 55-65" premium market. However, the recent reports suggest that Samsung recovered a fair amount of ground last year after getting thrashed two years ago. I attribute that to making better FALD sets at better pricing. This year, Samsung is being more aggressive with pricing by bringing their top of the line 4k down to match the C9 MSRP. We will have to wait and see how street pricing compares over time. Even with pricing the same, I expect LG OLEDs to still sell really well due to their better picture quality.
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post #230 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Since some are speculating on the 2019 LG OLED improvements, here are my findings on a C9 I recently calibrated
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57764872
Great information, thanks for sharing this. You might want to cross-post your calibration observations into the C9 owner's thread that's probably floating around here.

I have a side question for you. I bought a Calman license years ago when I calibrated my 65VT30, I haven't updated it in years, is the licensing perpetual or will I have to buy a new license?

Thanks
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post #231 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 03:09 PM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
Great information, thanks for sharing this. You might want to cross-post your calibration observations into the C9 owner's thread that's probably floating around here.

I have a side question for you. I bought a Calman license years ago when I calibrated my 65VT30, I haven't updated it in years, is the licensing perpetual or will I have to buy a new license?

Thanks
Best to call Portrait Display for the best answer since the best path would depend on which license you have and how long you haven't kept up with the maintenance.

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post #232 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 03:11 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Since some are speculating on the 2019 LG OLED improvements, here are my findings on a C9 I recently calibrated
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57764872
Thanks for confirming that the 25%, 50%, and 75% BFI capability made it into the final release (rumors from German claimed the improved BFI was being held back).

When you are back with the C9 again, can you check whether 50% BFI @ 120Hz is available?

You'll need to interpolate up to 120Hz (using Smooth Morion or whatever LG calls it) and then check whether BFI is available...

Thought I'd repost your 'preliminary verdict' here for all to see:

"My preliminary verdict, the 2019 LG C9 is a “significant improvement” over the 2018 LG C8 although it’s reported to be using the same panel but with the new Alpha9 processer. When I say significant, everything is relative. The 2018 LG OLED was an excellent set and the improvements for 2019 make it that much better. HDR is definetly brighter, motion is still not quite as good as the Sony, but with BFI it gets really, really close. Upscaling is improved and i didn’t notice any unusual artifacts and or noise in the picture which was sharp and crisp. I'm very interested to see of the PQ after using Calman Autocal to see if the result is any better with all the new finetuning LG apparently did. There is no question that LG seems to be pushing the panel "harder" this year to get more brightness but that could be at the expense of greater possibility of burn in. The logo protector is set to High at default vs Low in the 2018 sets. Some may want to know if it “blows away” the Sony A9F? in my opinion, no, but the two sets are so close with the LG giving a brighter HDR picture and having additional gaming features, that you can’t go wrong with either set."
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post #233 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 03:17 PM
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Originally Posted by New_to_4K View Post
Have you seen A9F and Panasonic OLED perform vs. C8 or this is purely an observation vs. the lower end A8F?
I’ve seen all of these sets many times and imho they are all very similar. The biggest difference that sets the LG C8 apart is that extra brightness. The LG is a step above with HDR content, but I also love the color accuracy of the Panasonic. For 2018 I’d rank them:

1. LG
2. Panasonic
3. Sony A9F
4. Sony A8F

I rate the LG on top of the Panasonic by a hair, because I watch a ton of DV content. This year’s Panasonic GZ2000 will be something special indeed with that new panel cooling tech, and also both DV and HDR10+ on board. Too bad it only comes in 55/65 sizes, not to mention Panasonic’s 77” offering is currently 1.5x the cost of a 77C8. Since my goal is a 77 OLED, it pretty much makes LG my only viable option.

That said, the Panasonic GZ2000 is my early pick for 2019 TV of the year. I will be more than happy if the C9 gets close.
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post #234 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
If you need to squint to see any modern OLED TV, you should try removing it from the sauna or getting your eyes checked. This is coming from someone with a Z9D on order.
Speaking of the Z9D...not to derail the thread...but wasn't it supposed to come today?

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post #235 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
You'll need to interpolate up to 120Hz (using Smooth Morion or whatever LG calls it) and then check whether BFI is available...

I don't think this is a valid test. You can output 120Hz 1080P on the C8 and BFI is available. But what happens is that the TV will just skip every 2nd frame when you enable BFI, I think.
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post #236 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 03:36 PM
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Originally Posted by bjaurelio View Post
Perhaps I was a little too general in my statement. I think we are saying essentially the same thing. We for sure agree on the 75" plus premium TV market. It very well may be that LG outsold Samsung in the 55-65" premium market. However, the recent reports suggest that Samsung recovered a fair amount of ground last year after getting thrashed two years ago. I attribute that to making better FALD sets at better pricing. This year, Samsung is being more aggressive with pricing by bringing their top of the line 4k down to match the C9 MSRP. We will have to wait and see how street pricing compares over time. Even with pricing the same, I expect LG OLEDs to still sell really well due to their better picture quality.
I've seen the same headlines as you, but from everything I've been able to glean, these headlines are largely 'fake news' driven by changing the goalposts.

In 2017, IHS Markit was tracking 55" and 65" Premium TV sales comparing OLED sales (LG & Sony) as a % of total Premium TV sales at those sizes here in the US, and it was clear LG gained significant market share at Samsung's expense.

In 2018, they are comparing overall OLED sales to overall QD-LED/LCD sales at all sizes and pricepoints, including the 49QN 6 currently selling at Best Buy for under $1000.

In November, the QN49Q6 was priced at $700, versus the 55B8 which was priced at $1600 - which TV would ypu think sold in higher volumes?

I can't comment as to what ground Samsung actually lost in 2017 or how much ground they regained in 2018 (since IHS Markit did not provide any consistent fata year-to-year for an applies-to-apples comparison.

What I can comment on is that LGD sold all of their 2.9 million WOLED panels produced last year which was an increase of ~50% over the ~2million they sold in 2017. In addition, their WOLED panel business has swung from loss-making in 2017 to profitable in 2018 (partly because they raised prices by ~5%). So it's hard for me to see any measure whereby LG WOLED has taken a step backwards from any perspective (whether or not there are objective measures whereby Samsung may have taken any steps forward in regards to what was apparently a horrible 2017 from all reports).
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
I've seen the same headlines as you, but from everything I've been able to glean, these headlines are largely 'fake news' driven by changing the goalposts.

In 2017, IHS Markit was tracking 55" and 65" Premium TV sales comparing OLED sales (LG & Sony) as a % of total Premium TV sales at those sizes here in the US, and it was clear LG gained significant market share at Samsung's expense.

In 2018, they are comparing overall OLED sales to overall QD-LED/LCD sales at all sizes and pricepoints, including the 49QN 6 currently selling at Best Buy for under $1000.

In November, the QN49Q6 was priced at $700, versus the 55B8 which was priced at $1600 - which TV would ypu think sold in higher volumes?

I can't comment as to what ground Samsung actually lost in 2017 or how much ground they regained in 2018 (since IHS Markit did not provide any consistent fata year-to-year for an applies-to-apples comparison.

What I can comment on is that LGD sold all of their 2.9 million WOLED panels produced last year which was an increase of ~50% over the ~2million they sold in 2017. In addition, their WOLED panel business has swung from loss-making in 2017 to profitable in 2018 (partly because they raised prices by ~5%). So it's hard for me to see any measure whereby LG WOLED has taken a step backwards from any perspective (whether or not there are objective measures whereby Samsung may have taken any steps forward in regards to what was apparently a horrible 2017 from all reports).
As a factual matter, the market for large, premium TVs is growing because prices really are coming down. I don;t believe most family TV budgets change much, anecdotally people have a certain amount they think a TV should cost and they spend that each time they upgrade. But with current trends, 65" and also 75" OLEDs will be pieces of a bigger (and growing) pie and folks here are pining for affordable 80" plus.

Hard to ignore the stated intentions of the respondents to this (admittedly totally unscientific) poll:

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post #238 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 03:47 PM
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I don't think this is a valid test. You can output 120Hz 1080P on the C8 and BFI is available. But what happens is that the TV will just skip every 2nd frame when you enable BFI, I think.
No, that's not what I'm talking about - that's just 50% BFI @ 60Hz (of cintent framerate).

At CES, LG demoed 25% (low), 50% (medium) and 75% (high) BFI @ 60Hz (as you've confirmed).

They also demoed 50% BFI @ 120Hz (of content framerate), meanng black frames inserted at 240Hz (Effective Refresh Rate).

If you have any other source of 120Hz source material, that would be a great way to test the availability of 50% BFI at that framerate (no dropped frames). If not, interpolating 60fos content up to 120Hz is the only way I can think of to check availability of the feature.

Interpolating 60Hz content to 120Hz and then applying 50% BFI should deliver the same persistance (3.5ms MPRT) as applying 75% BFI @ 60Hz (Hi) but with less loss of brightness (similar brightness loss to 60Hz BFI on Medium) and with much less noticable flicker (at the expense of more smoothing/SOE which should not matter on 60Hz sports content).
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post #239 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 03:56 PM
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Since some are speculating on the 2019 LG OLED improvements, here are my findings on a C9 I recently calibrated
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...l#post57764872
Thanks for posting that link! The C9 is sounding like an awesome set and makes the wait for the 77C9 that much harder.

What a truly remarkable value LG is in the world of OLED tv’s, especially when you consider that the 65A9F is currently selling for more than double the cost of the 65C8...at least it is here in Canada anyway. Crazy!

Samsung 82” Q90R * LG 55” C8 * Anthem AVM 60 * 5.2.4 Atmos * Xbox One X * PS4 Pro
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post #240 of 532 Old 03-18-2019, 03:59 PM
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No, that's not what I'm talking about ...

Yes I understand, I was just implying you would have to somehow check (by eye?) if it really still is 120fps when bfi is enabled, without skipping frames. Just the BFI option being available when playing 120 fps content isn't proof. That's what I meant.
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