2019 C9–E9 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 01:05 PM
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Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
Thanks, absolutely will gather some thoughts. I PRAY little to no banding AND no color tint, or not visible...PRAYING!!!

But yes, I'm really excited to see if gen2 matches Sony on cable upscaling (i'll watch basketball tonight) and play with BFI...Robert at VE said turning on 25% BFI is a "game-changer"
Right put it on Low.
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post #32 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 01:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Right put it on Low.
i usually use technicolor sdr on 60 for my room with moderate lighting/sun during day...so 25% BFI (LOW), how much do you think you need to bump OLED light? Also, since I'm new to the BFI, do you turn on BFI but leave off trumotion, etc?
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post #33 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 01:35 PM
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Why would bfi low be game changing? It barely reduces persistence. You should set it to high (75%) and compare to medium while watching sports.


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post #34 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 01:58 PM
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Why would bfi low be game changing? It barely reduces persistence. You should set it to high (75%) and compare to medium while watching sports.


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Because on the C9 at the store, we noticed setting BFI to Low only slightly reduces the brightness and no flicker while giving relatively smooth motion. If you set it to high you get a noticeable drop in brightness and some flicker.
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post #35 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 02:02 PM
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Because on the C9 at the store, we noticed setting BFI to Low only slightly reduces the brightness and no flicker while giving relatively smooth motion. If you set it to high you get a noticeable drop in brightness and some flicker.


Well yes. But that’s because it’s inserting fewer black frames.


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post #36 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Micolash View Post
Well yes. But that’s because it’s inserting fewer black frames.


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Right but we were comparing motion on the C9 and the A9F and setting BFI to Low on the C9 seemed to best smooth out motion overall. I also like setting motion interpolation to 4/3 if BFI is OFF. The problem with motion is everyone has their own sensitivity and the set's effectiveness depends on the content being displayed. All I can tell you is what we observed. LG is shipping the 2019 sets now so i'm sure we will get other opinions from new owners.
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post #37 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 02:24 PM
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Well yes. But that’s because it’s inserting fewer black frames.


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What matters more, what is happening on a technical level or what the perceived effect is by actual humans?
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post #38 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 03:23 PM
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Up and running...first impressions on Directv...

Using technicolor sdr default with oled light 60 and turned on “AI Picture”...

Definitely feels cleaner and more crisp than C8. I immediately picked up on smoother motion. I have yet to turn anything else on. I tried turning on BFI but I couldn’t find the option to change between low, medium, and high. Need to play around more. Also feel there’s definitely more pop.

One issue I’m having is I turned on hdmi2 to allow hdr and every time I put on hdr from my Directv box the hlg hdr pops up but screen goes blank and then the no signal screensaver comes up. I have tried 3 times now and have to keep turning off everything and starting over to get picture back. So Directv hdr through my denon to c9 isn’t playing nice. It worked fine on the C8...so not sure what gives but guess I can try new cables.
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post #39 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 03:25 PM
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Box picture again...
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post #40 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 03:27 PM
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Box picture again...
Nice! Congrats, do post your impressions.
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post #41 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 03:36 PM
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Box picture again...
Now we just need tv pictures

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post #42 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 04:08 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Because on the C9 at the store, we noticed setting BFI to Low only slightly reduces the brightness and no flicker while giving relatively smooth motion. If you set it to high you get a noticeable drop in brightness and some flicker.
The 'drop in brightness' is a non-issue unless you are viewing HDR (which you won't be with sports).

At 25% [email protected] (Low) there should be almost no drop in brightness (25% auto-compensation), but only a 25% reduction in persistance (MPRT). It should look a bit 'better' than BFI off because persistance is reduced with no other visible impact.

At 50% [email protected] (Medium), you are matching what the C8 BFI delivered but with only ~half the brightness loss of the C8 (25% brightness loss rather than 50% brightness loss). Unless you already have OLED Light above 65, OLED Light can be increased to compensate for this brighness loss, so you have 50% the persistance with 60Hz flicker that should be as visible as it was on the C8.

At 75% [email protected] (High), you are getting 3.5ms MPRT with the same brightness loss as the C8 (50%). You can again compensate for the brighess loss by ~doubling OLED Light (if it was no higher than 50), but 60Hz flicker will be at least as bad if not worse as it was on the C8.

The best setting for sports should be to use 50% BFI @ 120Hz (this should be the real 'Game Changer' - 3.5ms MPRT with only 25% loss of brightness). To use 120Hz BFI you need to engage SmoothMotion to frame-interpolate the incoming signal from 1080i60 (60fps interlaced) or 720p60 (60fps progressive @ 720p resolution) to 2160p120 ([email protected]).

But the result will be 3.5ms MPRT @ 25% loss of brightness (which can be compensated by increasing OLED Light as long as you were below 65 without BFI) and with pretty much no flicker (flicker @ 120Hz instead of 60Hz).
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post #43 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
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Originally Posted by Micolash View Post
Well yes. But that’s because it’s inserting fewer black frames.


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Right but we were comparing motion on the C9 and the A9F and setting BFI to Low on the C9 seemed to best smooth out motion overall. I also like setting motion interpolation to 4/3 if BFI is OFF. The problem with motion is everyone has their own sensitivity and the set's effectiveness depends on the content being displayed. All I can tell you is what we observed. LG is shipping the 2019 sets now so i'm sure we will get other opinions from new owners.
How do you change the OLED motion to low, medium, or high? On the technicolor preset it only shows as On or Off switch? I have AI Picture ON...is that the problem?
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post #44 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
How do you change the OLED motion to low, medium, or high? On the technicolor preset it only shows as On or Off switch? I have AI Picture ON...is that the problem?
I'd suggest you choose some preset like 'standard' and turn everything OFF. Who knows which other settings prevent activation of BFI? Using 'Standard' as a Sports mode with BFI activated and OLED Light increased to compensate for any loss of brightness is what I would do.

After playing around with BFI modes at 60Hz, you can activate SmoothMotion on mac to interpolate to 120Hz and that should only allow BFI at Medium (or simply ON/OFF).
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post #45 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 04:33 PM
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Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
How do you change the OLED motion to low, medium, or high? On the technicolor preset it only shows as On or Off switch? I have AI Picture ON...is that the problem?
Not sure if this will help but check Vincent's video at 7:30

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post #46 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
How do you change the OLED motion to low, medium, or high? On the technicolor preset it only shows as On or Off switch? I have AI Picture ON...is that the problem?
Not sure if this will help but check Vincent's video at 7:30

Yeah I watched that too. Maybe I have old firmware? My option is a slider on or off. Did a firmware update check and it’s up to date. Wonder if this is coming via firmware update.
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post #47 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 06:36 PM
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Watching the NCAA game and motion and upscaling are definItely an upgrade this year. Regular cable Directv content now has some wow factor again for me. I have only had LG oleds but the C9 should definitely give the Sony X1 chip a run for its money.

I have “AI Picture” set to ON and all other technicolor sdr settings unchanged except oled light and looks great.

I was hoping to figure out this BFI but I have no option but on or off. I must have some old firmware or they haven’t rolled it out yet?

Might play with putting smooth gradation on low and see what happens but I’m not seeing any color banding.

The peak brightness is an interesting setting. Turning it on for sdr almost makes it eye searing bright.

I have not run any 5% or 100% slides yet to look for banding and tint. So far in my couple hours I haven’t seen anything but haven’t decided if I’m going to run the normal torture tests or not. Just really enjoying the tv right now.

One other note, the new stand is HEAVY. Not the front piece but the counter weight piece in the back is solid.

I was also worried from the pics that the stand looked like a lighter silver color like the 2017 series in pictures. I can report it’s pretty much the same gunmetal as the 2018 series.
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post #48 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 06:55 PM
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I am about the pull the trigger on one of these and I just want to confirm that as far as we all know there is no inherent picture quality difference between the C and E models correct? In other words the Picture on Glass design does not net any material contrast or viewing angle benefits?
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post #49 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 06:56 PM
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I turned on some lighting in the room and I do think the new anti reflective filter is better. I’m not seeing as bad reflections as I did on the C8. That’s a good thing since I thought they went backwards from the E6 I used to have that did better than C8 in my opinion.

Here’s some phone pictures, so pardon the quality...showing the tv, stand, and a few settings.

Going to try some HDR/DV...

When anyone else gets one, let me know your firmware version. I’m feeling that they haven’t rolled out the BFI update?
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post #50 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 06:58 PM
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I am about the pull the trigger on one of these and I just want to confirm that as far as we all know there is no inherent picture quality difference between the C and E models correct? In other words the Picture on Glass design does not net any material contrast or viewing angle benefits?
No, I’ve had C and E series. E looks nice but zero difference. At one point people assumed LG did better QC on the E series but don’t think that was ever proven.
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post #51 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
i usually use technicolor sdr on 60 for my room with moderate lighting/sun during day...so 25% BFI (LOW), how much do you think you need to bump OLED light? Also, since I'm new to the BFI, do you turn on BFI but leave off trumotion, etc?
There is apparently +25% BFI brightness compensation already built into the 2019 LG WOLRDs, so from OLED Light 60, here are your compensation settings:

BFI Low (25%) @ 60Hz: No change (or a couple clicks until it looks 'right to you)

BFI Mefium (50%) @ 60Hz: OLED Light 80 (+33%)

BFI High (75%) @ 60Hz: OLED Light 100 (and even that will not fully-compensate - you should lose ~17% brightness)

BFI ON (50%) @ 120Hz: OLED Light 80 (+33%)
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post #52 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
Watching the NCAA game and motion and upscaling are definItely an upgrade this year. Regular cable Directv content now has some wow factor again for me. I have only had LG oleds but the C9 should definitely give the Sony X1 chip a run for its money.

I have “AI Picture” set to ON and all other technicolor sdr settings unchanged except oled light and looks great.

I was hoping to figure out this BFI but I have no option but on or off. I must have some old firmware or they haven’t rolled it out yet?

Might play with putting smooth gradation on low and see what happens but I’m not seeing any color banding.

The peak brightness is an interesting setting. Turning it on for sdr almost makes it eye searing bright.

I have not run any 5% or 100% slides yet to look for banding and tint. So far in my couple hours I haven’t seen anything but haven’t decided if I’m going to run the normal torture tests or not. Just really enjoying the tv right now.

One other note, the new stand is HEAVY. Not the front piece but the counter weight piece in the back is solid.

I was also worried from the pics that the stand looked like a lighter silver color like the 2017 series in pictures. I can report it’s pretty much the same gunmetal as the 2018 series.
Strange. Have you tried turning OFF absolutely everything (in a specific preset like Standard or Game if needed)?

The other thing you can try is using Smooth Motion to interpolate up to 120Hz. BFI ON @ 120Hz is 3.5ms MPRT while BFI on Medium @ 60Hz is double that.

120Hz flicker should also be much hardet to detect than 60Hz flicker - are you noticing any flicker with BFI ON?

Finally, at OLED Light 60 w/o BFI, you should be able to match brightness by increasing OLED Light to 80 with 50% BFI ON - is tust what you are experiencing?
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post #53 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 07:18 PM
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I turned on some lighting in the room and I do think the new anti reflective filter is better. I’m not seeing as bad reflections as I did on the C8. That’s a good thing since I thought they went backwards from the E6 I used to have that did better than C8 in my opinion.

Here’s some phone pictures, so pardon the quality...showing the tv, stand, and a few settings.

Going to try some HDR/DV...

When anyone else gets one, let me know your firmware version. I’m feeling that they haven’t rolled out the BFI update?
jrref tested the Low, Medium High BFI settings on the C9 he calibrated at VE - perhaps you could send him a PM asking if he noted down the FW version (and otherwise I believe he may be spending more time with the TV this weekend).
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post #54 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 07:23 PM
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jrref tested the Low, Medium High BFI settings on the C9 he calibrated at VE - perhaps you could send him a PM asking if he noted down the FW version (and otherwise I believe he may be spending more time with the TV this weekend).
3.50.22 is the current firmware on production units. VE did not have a production C9 either (the one John calibrated). It is/was a review sample sent from LG.
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post #55 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 07:41 PM
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jrref tested the Low, Medium High BFI settings on the C9 he calibrated at VE - perhaps you could send him a PM asking if he noted down the FW version (and otherwise I believe he may be spending more time with the TV this weekend).
3.50.22 is the current firmware on production units. VE did not have a production C9 either (the one John calibrated). It is/was a review sample sent from LG.
Yep, this explains the BFI settings missing for me. They haven’t rolled it out into commercial production as D-NICE said, so I can’t test it yet.
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post #56 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 07:45 PM
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3.50.22 is the current firmware on production units. VE did not have a production C9 either (the one John calibrated). It is/was a review sample sent from LG.
On the set I calibrated was version 03.00.94 so you have a later version. VE has production sets now so I can check to see the version they have on Monday.

I was working with ISF Bright PM. Look in that PM to see if the user controls are any different.

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post #57 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 07:51 PM
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Yeah I watched that too. Maybe I have old firmware? My option is a slider on or off. Did a firmware update check and it’s up to date. Wonder if this is coming via firmware update.
What FW version do you have?

Sounds as rhough 03.00.94 has been confirmed to have the Low, Medium, High BFI options while D-Nice had 03.50.22 on a review sample (and I'm not sure whether he's confirmed whether the TV he had also supported Low, Medium and High BFI settings or not...).

There was that report from Germany early this month that LG had 'backed out' the advanced BFI settings, so they were probably testing an early production TV with the same FW version you have.

Welcome to the bleeding-edge .
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post #58 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 07:58 PM
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3.50.22 is the current firmware on production units. VE did not have a production C9 either (the one John calibrated). It is/was a review sample sent from LG.
Perhaps I misunderstood - so you've tested an early FW version on a review sample (03.00.94, like jrref) but have not yet tested 3.50.22?

The review sample you tested did support Low, Medium, High BFI settings, correct?

So we need guitarguy to tell us which FW version his C9 has and wait for someone to get a C9 with 3.50.22 to test...
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post #59 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 08:03 PM
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Perhaps I misunderstood - so you've tested an early FW version on a review sample (03.00.94, like jrref) but have not yet tested 3.50.22?

The review sample you tested did support Low, Medium, High BFI settings, correct?

So we need guitarguy to tell us which FW version his C9 has and wait for someone to get a C9 with 3.50.22 to test...
I would also verify on guitarguy's set if he see's BFI in ISF Bright PM. Remember LG changed the Technicolor PM to use a different white point and brightness. Maybe other things have changed as well.

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post #60 of 9467 Old 03-29-2019, 08:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
3.50.22 is the current firmware on production units. VE did not have a production C9 either (the one John calibrated). It is/was a review sample sent from LG.
Perhaps I misunderstood - so you've tested an early FW version on a review sample (03.00.94, like jrref) but have not yet tested 3.50.22?

The review sample you tested did support Low, Medium, High BFI settings, correct?

So we need guitarguy to tell us which FW version his C9 has and wait for someone to get a C9 with 3.50.22 to test...
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Perhaps I misunderstood - so you've tested an early FW version on a review sample (03.00.94, like jrref) but have not yet tested 3.50.22?

The review sample you tested did support Low, Medium, High BFI settings, correct?

So we need guitarguy to tell us which FW version his C9 has and wait for someone to get a C9 with 3.50.22 to test...
I would also verify on guitarguy's set if he see's BFI in ISF Bright PM. Remember LG changed the Technicolor PM to use a different white point and brightness. Maybe other things have changed as well.
DeWayne and I are texting about it. We are on same firmware 3.50.22 and neither have the BFI settings for low/med/high.

It’s possible they pulled it out after finding bugs, which maybe explains why the other guy with the 03.00.xx firmware has the 3 level settings.
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