2019 C9–E9 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 265 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #7921 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 12:47 PM
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Originally Posted by jacoro1 View Post
Sorry it turned out a little blurry. The differences I can spot are that mine is showing 59.92hz vs 60hz and scaninfo has Horizvalid vs Invalid.
Oddly mine also has a rapidly fluctuation error count for CTLE Ch1 Result,
It also seems to be using the rec.601 colour space (for Standard Def) instead of rec.709 (for HD).

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post #7922 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 12:53 PM
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I am getting Atmos via eARC when playing PC games by using the Dolby Access app from the Microsoft Store. How will PCM support via eARC be better?
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post #7923 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 01:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
It also seems to be using the rec.601 colour space (for Standard Def) instead of rec.709 (for HD).
No, it uses the xvYCC colour space.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XvYCC : "xvYCC-encoded video retains the same color primaries and white point as BT.709, and uses either a BT.601 or BT.709 RGB-to-YCC conversion matrix and encoding.[2] This allows it to travel through existing digital YCC data paths, and any colors within the normal gamut will be compatible."

[2] https://web.archive.org/web/20090829.../xvycc_01.html
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post #7924 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 01:24 PM
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Originally Posted by mike_j_johnson View Post
I am getting Atmos via eARC when playing PC games by using the Dolby Access app from the Microsoft Store. How will PCM support via eARC be better?
PCM will be lossless, pretty much every game supports it and might have less lag as it doesn't have to be compressed before it is send out.
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post #7925 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 01:36 PM
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SW File(Version 04.70.05)
10/19/2019


1. Improvement
1) 19Y B&O TV(V300) SW development
2) TV Voice assistant using mobile LG TV plus App
3) Adding Voice assistant feature in Netflix
4) Enhancement to Amazon Alexa service
5) Enhancement to Home Dashboard
http://gscs-b2c.lge.com/downloadFile...YuyLKHdvWVYbtA


I guess it's out?

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post #7926 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 01:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Siran77 View Post
PCM will be lossless, pretty much every game supports it and might have less lag as it doesn't have to be compressed before it is send out.

Awesome! Sucks we have to wait another ~6 months!?
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post #7927 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by mike_j_johnson View Post
Awesome! Sucks we have to wait another ~6 months!?
Pretty much unless you go through an AVR (losing GSync) or connect two HDMI outs from your PC, one for (PCM-)audio and one for video, but that's as far as my knowledge goes, maybe others can help.
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post #7928 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by avernar View Post
No, it uses the xvYCC colour space.

From https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XvYCC : "xvYCC-encoded video retains the same color primaries and white point as BT.709, and uses either a BT.601 or BT.709 RGB-to-YCC conversion matrix and encoding.[2] This allows it to travel through existing digital YCC data paths, and any colors within the normal gamut will be compatible."

[2] https://web.archive.org/web/20090829.../xvycc_01.html
Thanks for the correction, but doesn't it say xvYCC601 in the screen shot? I can't get back to it. My main point was the 601 is a smaller gamut than 709 and very unusual these days.

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post #7929 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by iatacs19 View Post
I guess it's out?
Yes, but it's better for people to go through the support menu on the website and enter their model number just in case some have differences in the binary.
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post #7930 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 01:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Siran77 View Post
PCM will be lossless, pretty much every game supports it and might have less lag as it doesn't have to be compressed before it is send out.
PCM is compressed. PCM wav files are smaller than uncompressed wav files.

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post #7931 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
Thanks for the correction, but doesn't it say xvYCC601 in the screen shot? I can't get back to it. My main point was the 601 is a smaller gamut than 709 and very unusual these days.
Yes, xvYCC601 is the xvYCC (extended gamut YCC) colour space using the BT.601 RGB-to-YCC conversion matrix and encoding. But it's not limited to the 601 gamut.
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post #7932 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 02:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Siran77 View Post
Pretty much unless you go through an AVR (losing GSync) or connect two HDMI outs from your PC, one for (PCM-)audio and one for video, but that's as far as my knowledge goes, maybe others can help.
Some people like @LiLAsN are having issues getting this setup to work. YMMV

Quote:
Originally Posted by fenster3000 View Post
It is official!

Multi-Channel PCM comming in Q2 2020 for 2019/2020 eARC TVs:



https://lgcommunity.us.com/discussio...#Comment_13639
And now that comment is gone. That seems fishy.
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post #7933 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 02:48 PM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
PCM is compressed. PCM wav files are smaller than uncompressed wav files.
PCM is uncompressed, .wav files are larger because they add headers and carry metadata.
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Last edited by Siran77; 10-22-2019 at 02:53 PM.
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post #7934 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by GCTuba View Post
Some people like @LiLAsN are having issues getting this setup to work. YMMV



And now that comment is gone. That seems fishy.
moved to the first page on the thread
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post #7935 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 02:49 PM
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Originally Posted by GCTuba View Post
Some people like @LiLAsN are having issues getting this setup to work. YMMV



And now that comment is gone. That seems fishy.
It's just been moved to the front as "best answer"
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post #7936 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 03:29 PM
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I lives in Sweden.
Waiting for a proper version dedicated to my region.
That would probably be your best choice......
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post #7937 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 04:07 PM
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New nvidia driver 440.97 did not add gsync for c9.
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post #7938 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 04:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Laupe View Post
It happens on 1440p120 too. I think PC users should avoid RGB and force YCbCr444.

I tried the following setups in PC mode:
RGB Full with TV set to HDMI Black Full = Banding/Posturization
RGB Limited with TV set to HDMI Black Low = Banding/Posturization
YCbCr444 with TV set to HDMI Black Low = No Banding/Posturization and 4:4:4 is kept

This matches what others have reported with HDR games and PC Mode. HDR just makes it more noticeable but it's definitely happening in even 8bit SDR content.
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Originally Posted by seriouser View Post
I noticed the same when watching movies and wondering about all the banding.

I use my C9 as a HTPC and second monitor and I've been simply using Game Mode, when I need to play games, and isf Expert (Dark Room) when watching stuff. In the Home Dashboard I've set the icon to "Home Theater".
I basically do what Seriouser does. If PC Mode has so many issues, why use it at all?

I just avoid PC Mode and set NVidia color settings to RGB Full 8 bit and the TV Black Level to high. I switch to Game Mode (with most image processing turned off) when gaming and to isf Expert when watching video content. Is there anything wrong with this setup? Does this harm the picture quality or latency in any way compared to using PC Mode?

Last edited by Aemstel; 10-22-2019 at 05:09 PM.
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post #7939 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Aemstel View Post
If PC Mode has so many issues, why use it at all?
It turns off the downconversion to 4:2:2 that the TV does. Without It you loose the benefit of using RGB or 4:4:4. Very noticeable in small coloured text.
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post #7940 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 05:27 PM
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A heads up for all of those messing around with nVidia drivers and C9 firmware with regard to GSync and VRR. When GSync is enabled, Windows gives the option to use OS level VRR in the Windows Graphics Settings menu. My assumption is it will give games that don't have VRR built in the ability to use VRR.

Also the newest driver release by nVidia does not include GSync / VRR from my experience. I went back to the 440.52 beta drivers.

I started messing around with OC'ing via NVCP and have a stable 66hz at 4K and HDR enabled in Windows. Someone had mentioned it didn't work too well, I'll let you guys know how stable it is for me after I find some time to play some recent games.

55C9AUA running 04.80.12 engineering, 2080ti, Win 10 running nVidia 440.52, 15' 48G optical HDMI cord (only one I could find at any stores around me)

Has anyone been able to get the tv to use the FRL / HDMI 2.1 protocol with any of the Turing cards? I am really curious to see if the cards have 2.0b or 2.1 ports / chip. I'm not sure anyone (other than nVidia) knows for sure...
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post #7941 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 05:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Aemstel View Post
I basically do what Seriouser does. If PC Mode has so many issues, why use it at all?

I just avoid PC Mode and set NVidia color settings to RGB Full 8 bit and the TV Black Level to high. I switch to Game Mode (with most image processing turned off) when gaming and to isf Expert when watching video content. Is there anything wrong with this setup? Does this harm the picture quality or latency in any way compared to using PC Mode?
Because you can't get 4:4:4 outside of PC mode and losing 4:4:4 is massive quality loss on the PC. I thought about just using PC mode for the desktop only, because dropping to 4:2:2 is less noticeable in games, but there are many PC only games that frequently use 4:4:4 color space for various icons/UI/etc and it makes them looks wrong.

It is far less of a quality loss to use YCbCr444, set the TV to HDMI Black Limited, and stay in PC mode. It get rids of all the PC mode banding in SDR content. I'd wager 99.9% of people can't tell the difference between RGB Full 4:4:4 and YCbCr444 Limited anyway. I am extremely picky and I can't see any visual differences. Infact, I hooked a meter up to the TV and ran a full sweep/color checker and the difference was 0.2% between RGB Full and YCbCr444 Limited. As long as both your display and driver are set to the same space (Full or Limited) the difference is negligible.

Now running YCbCr444 with the TV set to HDMI Full will result in a terrible picture. The same as if you ran RGB Limited on a device and RGB full on a display or vice versa. You must match them, if you get black crush or elevated blacks they are set wrong.
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Last edited by Laupe; 10-22-2019 at 06:07 PM.
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post #7942 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 05:51 PM
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And now that comment is gone. That seems fishy.
I thought the same as well.
But it is not. It got moved to page one.

https://lgcommunity.us.com/discussio...ass-through/p1

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post #7943 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 06:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avernar View Post
It turns off the downconversion to 4:2:2 that the TV does. Without It you loose the benefit of using RGB or 4:4:4. Very noticeable in small coloured text.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laupe View Post
Because you can't get 4:4:4 outside of PC mode and losing 4:4:4 is massive quality loss on the PC. I thought about just using PC mode for the desktop only, because dropping to 4:2:2 is less noticeable in games, but there are many PC only games that frequently use 4:4:4 color space for various icons/UI/etc and it makes them looks wrong.
Thanks, that explains a lot! I understand now why you'd want PC Mode with 4:4:4.

To summarize: PC Mode is not needed at all for film/ video. But it's definitely needed for desktop usage and some games. And to avoid banding issues, don't set your PC to RGB Full but to YCbCr444 instead. Both are not ideal, but RGB Full causes more noticeable issues.
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post #7944 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 06:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Aemstel View Post
Thanks, that explains a lot! I understand now why you'd want PC Mode with 4:4:4.

To summarize: PC Mode is not needed at all for film/ video. But it's definitely needed for desktop usage and some games. And to avoid banding issues, don't set your PC to RGB Full but to YCbCr444 instead. Both are not ideal, but RGB Full causes more noticeable issues.
Yes, console games/movies/tv shows don't utilize 4:4:4 so it does nothing. However PC desktop & PC games do regularly use 4:4:4. RGB Limited and RGB Full both cause banding in PC mode. YCbCr444 in drivers + HDMI Level Limited on TV + PC Mode is the best picture for PC usage IMO, at least until LG fixes it. Someone said this issue has gone back 4 years, so not likely.

For HDR content, I would avoid PC mode entirely. I created a custom macro on my harmony elite remote that renames the input to HDMI 1 when watching HDR movies/games, then another macro to rename it back to PC when I am done. For whatever reason LG can't offer a simple "PC Mode" button I guess...

Also, why this display doesn't support 4:4:4 outside of PC mode is beyond me. It's definitely capable and there's no reason why it shouldn't. With GSYNC update, we can only hope LG puts some effort into fixing these issues.
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post #7945 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 06:59 PM
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Originally Posted by Laupe View Post
For HDR content, I would avoid PC mode entirely.
Why is that?
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post #7946 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 07:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Laupe View Post
Yes, console games/movies/tv shows don't utilize 4:4:4 so it does nothing.
For consoles running 4:4:4 or RGB it's tossing half the colour information. While not as noticeable it's still a loss of quality. And knowing that it's doing it bugs me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Laupe View Post
I created a custom macro on my harmony elite remote that renames the input to HDMI 1 when watching HDR movies/games, then another macro to rename it back to PC when I am done. For whatever reason LG can't offer a simple "PC Mode" button I guess...
My AVR has dual outputs so I can keep one input on PC and one regular. It's also the icon that matters. I've renamed the input but kept the icon and it's still in PC mode.
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post #7947 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 07:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Aemstel View Post
Why is that?
I'm guessing more posterization. I'm going to try it for a while to test it.
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post #7948 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 07:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prime957 View Post
A heads up for all of those messing around with nVidia drivers and C9 firmware with regard to GSync and VRR. When GSync is enabled, Windows gives the option to use OS level VRR in the Windows Graphics Settings menu. My assumption is it will give games that don't have VRR built in the ability to use VRR.

Also the newest driver release by nVidia does not include GSync / VRR from my experience. I went back to the 440.52 beta drivers.

I started messing around with OC'ing via NVCP and have a stable 66hz at 4K and HDR enabled in Windows. Someone had mentioned it didn't work too well, I'll let you guys know how stable it is for me after I find some time to play some recent games.

55C9AUA running 04.80.12 engineering, 2080ti, Win 10 running nVidia 440.52, 15' 48G optical HDMI cord (only one I could find at any stores around me)

Has anyone been able to get the tv to use the FRL / HDMI 2.1 protocol with any of the Turing cards? I am really curious to see if the cards have 2.0b or 2.1 ports / chip. I'm not sure anyone (other than nVidia) knows for sure...

Good to know 4K66Hz is working well, as I intend to buy the C9 in black friday.


I had mentioned before that I tried OCing my A8F OLED in NVCP and got it to accept anything from 4K 61-69 Hz, however the set is skipping frames as validated in the UFOTest page (https://www.testufo.com/frameskipping), maybe its a limitation of the HDMI 2.0 chips, the standard or my cables but its good to know C9 is displaying 66hz properly!


Have you tried OCing 1440p120 to perhaps 125-130HZ?
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post #7949 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by LiLAsN View Post
What about you guys? Do you guys notice this black crush issue? Or what are your solutions to this issue especially for devices that do not have 2 HDMI ports like the PS4 or your Blu-Ray player?
My Denon seems to be passing through the RGB Full SDR for the PS4 without issue. The Xbox goes to the C9 first.
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post #7950 of 10466 Old 10-22-2019, 08:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiLAsN View Post
Yup. For PS4, it is usually fine. But I became slightly concerned after seeing the black crush for the PC even though the PS4 is outputting Full range RGB fine through the AVR while the PC doesn't at Full range RGB. Glad to have your input that PS4 isn't really affected by this.
Must be a problem in your setup. Never had an issue passing RGB Full 0-255 through any receiver I've owned. No issues with Yamaha 3080 and C9.

The last Marantz I've tried was the AV7704 with my B7A. No issues.
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