2019 C9–E9 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 34 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #991 of 13631 Old 04-18-2019, 09:06 AM
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Why aren’t there any settings online yet? I have some questions about whether or not to turn on these new settings such as AI Picture and Smooth Gradation.
I think what the pros will say is all that stuff off...just like they say with noise reduction, etc...basically a "purist" view. I have played with AI picture on and off for SDR cable content, and while I have no scientific analysis of it, I think AI picture is helping at least with the lower quality 720p/1080i cable content. I did notice on some suit jackets from a newsroom studio it appeared to be adding some sharpening as part of the "AI picture"...so it's clearly trying to do something to upscale and clean up the picture to some extent.

I think this "AI picture" will be a personal choice based on what content you're watching. For something high quality like 1080p or 4k, i'm not sure it will do anything.

Same for smooth gradation. I found a scene with color banding and put it on "LOW" and the color banding went away...but then I think DeWayne said he did some analysis of this feature and could tell it was smoothing other fine details...I could be wrong but I thought I recalled him saying something to that effect...don't hold me to it.
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post #992 of 13631 Old 04-18-2019, 09:16 AM
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Originally Posted by TechNerd666 View Post
Why aren’t there any settings online yet? I have some questions about whether or not to turn on these new settings such as AI Picture and Smooth Gradation.
I think what the pros will say is all that stuff off...just like they say with noise reduction, etc...basically a "purist" view. I have played with AI picture on and off for SDR cable content, and while I have no scientific analysis of it, I think AI picture is helping at least with the lower quality 720p/1080i cable content. I did notice on some suit jackets from a newsroom studio it appeared to be adding some sharpening as part of the "AI picture"...so it's clearly trying to do something to upscale and clean up the picture to some extent.

I think this "AI picture" will be a personal choice based on what content you're watching. For something high quality like 1080p or 4k, i'm not sure it will do anything.

Same for smooth gradation. I found a scene with color banding and put it on "LOW" and the color banding went away...but then I think DeWayne said he did some analysis of this feature and could tell it was smoothing other fine details...I could be wrong but I thought I recalled him saying something to that effect...don't hold me to it.
I don’t think I watch anything as low as 720p. I mean it’s immediately noticeable to me when I see a 720p YouTube video.

I guess I’ll leave all the extra processing off.

As for the TruMotion settings, I can actually leave it off on this Tv. Definitely much better than my C7.
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post #993 of 13631 Old 04-18-2019, 09:35 AM
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Why aren’t there any settings online yet? I have some questions about whether or not to turn on these new settings such as AI Picture and Smooth Gradation.
I think what the pros will say is all that stuff off...just like they say with noise reduction, etc...basically a "purist" view. I have played with AI picture on and off for SDR cable content, and while I have no scientific analysis of it, I think AI picture is helping at least with the lower quality 720p/1080i cable content. I did notice on some suit jackets from a newsroom studio it appeared to be adding some sharpening as part of the "AI picture"...so it's clearly trying to do something to upscale and clean up the picture to some extent.

I think this "AI picture" will be a personal choice based on what content you're watching. For something high quality like 1080p or 4k, i'm not sure it will do anything.

Same for smooth gradation. I found a scene with color banding and put it on "LOW" and the color banding went away...but then I think DeWayne said he did some analysis of this feature and could tell it was smoothing other fine details...I could be wrong but I thought I recalled him saying something to that effect...don't hold me to it.
I don’t think I watch anything as low as 720p. I mean it’s immediately noticeable to me when I see a 720p YouTube video.

I guess I’ll leave all the extra processing off.

As for the TruMotion settings, I can actually leave it off on this Tv. Definitely much better than my C7.
I’ve never used TM but without it on it’s definitely better motion than the C8 I tried before.
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post #994 of 13631 Old 04-18-2019, 09:39 AM
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Why aren’t there any settings online yet? I have some questions about whether or not to turn on these new settings such as AI Picture and Smooth Gradation.
You should read the calibration and user setting thread:
https://www.avsforum.com/forum/139-d...rice-talk.html

I expect that thread to become far more active after the new CalMan is released.
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post #995 of 13631 Old 04-18-2019, 09:46 AM
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Why aren’t there any settings online yet? I have some questions about whether or not to turn on these new settings such as AI Picture and Smooth Gradation.
RTings said they would post their review of the C9 next week so there will be some settings then.
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post #996 of 13631 Old 04-18-2019, 10:29 AM
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RTings said they would post their review of the C9 next week so there will be some settings then.
That bodes well for everyone whose also contemplating a C9 but not quite ready to commit yet. It seems that the heavy hitter reviews all come out around the same time so I would hope that Vincent's C9 review also comes out next week and the inevitable comparison video between the C9 and Q90R come out within a week or two of that.
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post #997 of 13631 Old 04-18-2019, 11:02 AM
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That bodes well for everyone whose also contemplating a C9 but not quite ready to commit yet. It seems that the heavy hitter reviews all come out around the same time so I would hope that Vincent's C9 review also comes out next week and the inevitable comparison video between the C9 and Q90R come out within a week or two of that.
Did Vincent posted a video on unboxing of C9? He will usually post his reviews 2 weeks after unboxing video.
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post #998 of 13631 Old 04-18-2019, 11:20 AM
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FYI, LG C9 65" Now on display and in stock at COSTCO. Was sitting right in front of main door when coming in. Very bright area sunny day. Picture was plenty bright. Looked just as bright as the Samsung QN65Q7 right next to it. I know both were in vivid mode.
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post #999 of 13631 Old 04-18-2019, 11:25 AM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
That bodes well for everyone whose also contemplating a C9 but not quite ready to commit yet. It seems that the heavy hitter reviews all come out around the same time so I would hope that Vincent's C9 review also comes out next week and the inevitable comparison video between the C9 and Q90R come out within a week or two of that.
For what it's worth, they still gave a better overall score for C8 than the Q90r.

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post #1000 of 13631 Old 04-18-2019, 11:56 AM
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I can't believe the 77" C9 is out already! Was not expecting until FALL. While I wait for the rtings.com review, can anyone please confirm:


1) Does Xbox One X identify and fully support VRR with the C9?


2) Does the Sony A9G 77" also have HDMI 2.1 or will it share the panel ONLY?


Going to upgrade my 65" C8 as soon as I can afford it. Wish they had lowered pricing over last years 77" C8 but nope. Kind of debating switching to 82" Q90R and saving $500 too but it looks like it doesn't have full HDMI 2.1 support and still no DV of course. EDIT: Just saw Vincent Teoh's Q90R review. Nope nope nope. Sorry Samsung, LG or Sony OLED for me.

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post #1001 of 13631 Old 04-18-2019, 11:59 AM
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For what it's worth, they still gave a better overall score for C8 than the Q90r.
I haven't ruled a C8 out but I would really rather have the HDMI 2.1 feature set and other modest improvements if I can get them. If the reviews indicate that HDMI 2.1 is really the only reason to buy a C9 over a C8 then I might just save the 3,000 and get a C8 through Green Toe. I haven't ruled a Q90R out either it seems to be a great TV for the asking price and supports at least SOME of HDMI 2.1, doesn't support Dolby Vision though and there are some unique problems to that TV that wouldn't be present on an LG OLED.
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post #1002 of 13631 Old 04-18-2019, 12:21 PM
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Kind of debating switching to 82" Q90R and saving $500 too but it looks like it doesn't have full HDMI 2.1 support and still no DV of course.
One thing to keep in mind about that option (and since you have an Xbox One X), you will lose out on eARC if you also want to take advantage of VRR. VRR does not pass through receiver. Thus, you will have to decide whether to sacrifice full sound or VRR. This is a big loss with going the Q90R route as I understand it. I would be happy to be wrong on this though. Maybe a 2020 samsung model will have eARC, but time will tell. Can't believe they got to the finish line and collapsed without crossing the finish line with eARC in tow. SMH. Luckily it seems that LG crossed the line with both VRR and eARC in tow.
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post #1003 of 13631 Old 04-18-2019, 12:30 PM
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One thing to keep in mind about that option (and since you have an Xbox One X), you will lose out on eARC if you also want to take advantage of VRR. VRR does not pass through receiver. Thus, you will have to decide whether to sacrifice full sound or VRR. This is a big loss with going the Q90R route as I understand it. I would be happy to be wrong on this though. Maybe a 2020 samsung model will have eARC, but time will tell. Can't believe they got to the finish line and collapsed without crossing the finish line with eARC in tow. SMH. Luckily it seems that LG crossed the line with both VRR and eARC in tow.
We have zero confirmation in this owner's thread so far that anybody has seen eARC working on the C9. So I'd say it's an unknown at this point. It's possible that future AVRs will have the ability to pass some of the advanced gaming features through HDMI but certainly nothing out there today is going to do it.
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post #1004 of 13631 Old 04-18-2019, 12:33 PM
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I can't believe the 77" C9 is out already! Was not expecting until FALL. While I wait for the rtings.com review, can anyone please confirm:


1) Does Xbox One X identify and fully support VRR with the C9?


2) Does the Sony A9G 77" also have HDMI 2.1 or will it share the panel ONLY?


Going to upgrade my 65" C8 as soon as I can afford it. Wish they had lowered pricing over last years 77" C8 but nope. Kind of debating switching to 82" Q90R and saving $500 too but it looks like it doesn't have full HDMI 2.1 support and still no DV of course.
The A9G is supposed to have the same X1 Ultimate as the A9F, which means no HDMI 2.1 (but it does have eARC though). Samsung doesn't seem to support eARC on anything yet although they have VRR and ALLM on some models it seems.

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post #1005 of 13631 Old 04-18-2019, 12:34 PM
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We have zero confirmation in this owner's thread so far that anybody has seen eARC working on the C9. So I'd say it's an unknown at this point. It's possible that future AVRs will have the ability to pass some of the advanced gaming features through HDMI but certainly nothing out there today is going to do it.
Thank you for the clarification. I guess feature wise I read it was supposed to have eARC. I had one user tell me he got eARC and VRR (with Xbox One X) working on his setup. Obviously, with that being second hand info, I have no way to know if it is in fact true. I guess I should have said, "best chance this year is seemingly LG for VRR and eARC".
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post #1006 of 13631 Old 04-18-2019, 12:45 PM
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Thank you for the clarification. I guess feature wise I read it was supposed to have eARC. I had one user tell me he got eARC and VRR (with Xbox One X) working on his setup. Obviously, with that being second hand info, I have no way to know if it is in fact true. I guess I should have said, "best chance this year is seemingly LG for VRR and eARC".
LG said it's supposed to be supported but they also originally were going to deliver a vastly enhanced BFI and that's now up in the air.

Manufacturers can deliver subsets of HDMI and still advertise HDMI 2.1 compatibility which is frustrating.

For VRR one of the big questions would be what frequency range the C9 can do at different resolutions, that information doesn't appear to be fully available yet.

I also don't know that I've seen confirmation of the way ALLM behaves between Xbox One implementation and how PS4 does it, which is with a proprietary header in the HDMI info and whether LG can accommodate both.
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post #1007 of 13631 Old 04-18-2019, 12:59 PM
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Thank you for the clarification. I guess feature wise I read it was supposed to have eARC. I had one user tell me he got eARC and VRR (with Xbox One X) working on his setup. Obviously, with that being second hand info, I have no way to know if it is in fact true. I guess I should have said, "best chance this year is seemingly LG for VRR and eARC".
LG said it's supposed to be supported but they also originally were going to deliver a vastly enhanced BFI and that's now up in the air.

Manufacturers can deliver subsets of HDMI and still advertise HDMI 2.1 compatibility which is frustrating.

For VRR one of the big questions would be what frequency range the C9 can do at different resolutions, that information doesn't appear to be fully available yet.

I also don't know that I've seen confirmation of the way ALLM behaves between Xbox One implementation and how PS4 does it, which is with a proprietary header in the HDMI info and whether LG can accommodate both.
ALLM on the C9 works, I’ve done it just fine. Why does everyone think the C9 doesn’t really have a 2.1 hardware? This has already been confirmed but I guess you guys will wait until an “official reviewer” confirms it...
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post #1008 of 13631 Old 04-18-2019, 01:01 PM
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ALLM on the C9 works, I’ve done it just fine. Why does everyone think the C9 doesn’t really have a 2.1 hardware? This has already been confirmed but I guess you guys will wait until an “official reviewer” confirms it...
When did I say the LG didn't have HDMI 2.1 hardware? You can have HDMI 2.1 hardware and not support all of HDMI 2.1s feature set.

For ALLM what I'm referring to is that MSFT are the only ones using ALLM today, Sony supports something similar but it is using a mechanism other than actual ALLM (it uses a toggle bit in HDMI CEC if I remember correctly).
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If anybody has the 65" version sitting on the stand, could you possibly measure the height in inches from top of the furniture its setting on to the bottom and top VESA holes. I'm trying to see if I'm going to have to move my wall mount to keep the TV centered in my wall unit opening or if the mount's VESA position adjustments will work. There wasn't enough room to get behind the one on display at COSTCO.


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I just ruled out the Q90R after HDTVtest review, and if A9G doesn't have VRR (doubt they are doing VRR with no 2.1 like Samsung) I will have to nix it too over the LG C9. Was also considering the Sony Z9G 85" 8K, but I do not see how that will be affordable if the LG C9 77" is a whopping 7 grand already,


Let me ask this: Can I hook up X1X to C9 directly for VRR and then ARC/eARC proper Atmos other other fancy multichannel audio to my HDMI 2.0 receiver correctly? If so, I need to pull the trigger on that 77" C9 after I see rtings and Vincent's reviews. Obviously going to get an HDMI 2.1 receiver with hopeful VRR passthrough as soon as one exists!
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post #1011 of 13631 Old 04-18-2019, 01:14 PM
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I just ruled out the Q90R after HDTVtest review, and if A9G doesn't have VRR (doubt they are doing VRR with no 2.1 like Samsung) I will have to nix it too over the LG C9. Was also considering the Sony Z9G 85" 8K, but I do not see how that will be affordable if the LG C9 77" is a whopping 7 grand already,


Let me ask this: Can I hook up X1X to C9 directly for VRR and then eARC proper Atmos other other fancy multichannel audio to my HDMI 2.0 receiver correctly? If so, I need to pull the trigger on that 77" C9 after I see rtings and Vincent's reviews.
1. Your AVR needs to support EARC as well.
2. We don't know yet since we don't have any confirmation that the feature works, but it is supposed to be supported. For sure rtings.com and Vincent will confirm this if nobody else does.
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post #1012 of 13631 Old 04-18-2019, 01:18 PM
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1. Your AVR needs to support EARC as well.

Oh thanks for this! Good point now that I looked up that eARC is needed for Atmos. My Marantz 1607 can't be upgraded to eARC. Any word on HDMI 2.1 receivers hitting the market this year? I know I can upgrade to one with eARC now but wanted to wait for full HDMI 2.1.
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Can I buy a box that will accept eARC from the LG C9 and pass through Atmos to my old HDMI 2.0 Atmos receiver?
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We have zero confirmation in this owner's thread so far that anybody has seen eARC working on the C9. So I'd say it's an unknown at this point. It's possible that future AVRs will have the ability to pass some of the advanced gaming features through HDMI but certainly nothing out there today is going to do it.
Why has nobody tested eARC on the C9 all this while? There's an easier way to test eARC even if you don't own an xbox one, not all people are gamers or own an xbox one. eARC is a feature that would also be relevant to movie watchers.

If anyone has an eARC supporting AV processor/receiver along with a C9, connect the eARC hdmi port on the C9 to the 'main' hdmi port on your AV receiver. Take a usb flash drive , copy a .mp4 or .mkv video on it containing dolby trueHD audio or dts master audio. Plug in the usb flash drive on the C9's usb port on the back and play the video, this will activate the tv's built in video app . On the AV receiver, press the source/input button to see what signal is coming in. If it reads dolby trueHD or dts master audio, that means the tv is working with eARC. If on the other hand, the video with dolby trueHD reads on your av receiver as dolby digital plus (or dd+ or E-AC3), that means the tv is not working with eARC and only communicating on the standard ARC protocol. Standard ARC's bandwith (~1mbps) is not enough to carry lossless audio in the upstream channel (true hd, master audio, uncompressed 5.1 pcm etc.), so trueHD would get 'downscaled' to lossy audio, eARC's bandwith (~36.8 mbps) can carry lossless audio.
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post #1015 of 13631 Old 04-18-2019, 01:31 PM
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Can I buy a box that will accept eARC from the LG C9 and pass through Atmos to my old HDMI 2.0 Atmos receiver?
There are several receivers with HDMI 2.0 that support eARC, particularly from Denon and Marantz.
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post #1016 of 13631 Old 04-18-2019, 01:38 PM
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There are several receivers with HDMI 2.0 that support eARC, particularly from Denon and Marantz.

Ugh, between eARC and wanting more channels now that I have an Atmos setup (but 2.1 receivers not being available), it looks like I'm going to have to play the "upgrade receiver every year" game for a while. I've only gone through about THREE receivers I ended up keeping in entire past 17 years or so. Was quite proud of that, but now the tech is changing way too darn fast.


Looks like I'll be getting the C9 AND a new receiver at the same time.

Surprised there is no cheap box that will take eARC and output the signal to regular HDMI Atmos audio. Guess there's no way to make something like that cheap.
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Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
Why has nobody tested eARC on the C9 all this while? There's an easier way to test eARC even if you don't own an xbox one, not all people are gamers or own an xbox one. eARC is a feature that would also be relevant to movie watchers.
I saw a thread on Reddit where a user had successfully gotten eARC, VRR and ALLM to work. Again, second hand but his thread may help. Let me track it down.

Not sure if I can post reddit links in here, but if you search for "Can't wait to get this bad boy hooked up!" and "jbrunken" it should be first link. Here is a relevant post from his experiences: "Anyway, eARC is now working as advertised. It's even passing DTS HD-Master and Atmos/TrueHD when I have a UHD blu-ray playing!" There is a few days worth of info, and trial and error in that thread but that is maybe the first feedback that I have seen that it seems to be working through one user's experience.

Last edited by wegafan; 04-18-2019 at 02:03 PM.
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post #1018 of 13631 Old 04-18-2019, 01:49 PM
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Originally Posted by -ZG View Post
Erm. I'm guessing you don't know how buffering or vsync works from a technical perspective?

Well, I have implemented my own display driver in an FPGA, so I would like to think I have a decent handle on it.


If you have a specific technical question to ask, I'd be happen to try to explain it to you.
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post #1019 of 13631 Old 04-18-2019, 01:59 PM
 
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Oh thanks for this! Good point now that I looked up that eARC is needed for Atmos. My Marantz 1607 can't be upgraded to eARC. Any word on HDMI 2.1 receivers hitting the market this year? I know I can upgrade to one with eARC now but wanted to wait for full HDMI 2.1.
No not this year, i would estimate late 2020 (if your preferred av receiver manufacturer does a launch at that time), or else ces 2021 announcement. I think at ces 2021 there will be a whole host of true hdmi 2.1 av receivers announced to release later that year. i have a flagship onkyo av processor (PR-RZ5100) from 2016 whose audio processing is better than the models they are putting out now, but it doesnt support eARC, while some of the later models have got a firmware for eARC. Only some models that launched 2017 and beyond have the required hdmi chipset in place to support eARC. For folks who have older models, upgrading to true hdmi 2.1 receivers in the coming years would be a necessity, and the eARC feature of hdmi 2.1 might not be of much use as we could choose to route everything through the hdmi 2.1 receiver to the tv.
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post #1020 of 13631 Old 04-18-2019, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Flavius View Post
Oh thanks for this! Good point now that I looked up that eARC is needed for Atmos. My Marantz 1607 can't be upgraded to eARC. Any word on HDMI 2.1 receivers hitting the market this year? I know I can upgrade to one with eARC now but wanted to wait for full HDMI 2.1.
There are no HDMI 2.1 AVRs announced for 2019. Your best bet is to get an HDMI 2.0b AVR that can be firmware upgraded to support EARC. Many Denons going back even into 2017 are supported.

The first HDMI 2.1 AVRs probably hit the market in 2020....

Ironically if people use HDMI 2.1 w/EARC as intended they wouldn't need much in the way of HDMI 2.1 from the AVR other than the EARC support since theoretically all/most of your sources get connected directly to the TV at that point.
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