2019 C9–E9 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 43 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1261 of 4482 Old 04-25-2019, 11:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc Vu View Post
Hmm that’s not good. If vrr is exclusive to hdmi 2.1 port I might as well skip the 9 series and wait till 2020 when nvidia gpus likely have 2.1 port and lg release the 48” c10
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Originally Posted by Kuat View Post
Exactly my thoughts. I think 2020 will be huge, technology-rolling-out wise.
You guys know that AMD is possibly launching new GPUs later this year, right?


A key point is that these upcoming GPUs are of the same architecture (Navi) that is used in the upcoming next-gen PlayStation, so the possibility of HDMI 2.1 on said Navi GPUs is not at all out of the question.

...though at the same time, as I alluded to below, there is both mid-range Navi and high-end "big" Navi with the latter not looking to be launching until 2020 which is presumably the same year as the next-gen PlayStation. This is notable because it's very possible that mid-range Navi could lack HDMI 2.1 while the next-gen PlayStation and high-end "big" Navi could very well support HDMI 2.1.



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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Based on what?
Yeah I'm wondering this myself.

As someone that follows PC hardware developments much more-so than TV hardware developments, it's looking like AMD is going to majorly rock the boat in the second half of this year.


For those unaware, AMD's upcoming Zen2-based CPUs are looking to quite possibly match and/or surpass Intel's CPUs in all aspects. AMD's upcoming Navi-based GPUs are much more of a mystery, but they're rumored to at least provide exceptional performance-per-watt and performance-per-dollar.

One key thing in particular is that it's looking like the high-end "big" Navi chips won't come until 2020, so it's uncertain just how fast the mid-range Navi chips that presumably release later this year will be, whether it maxes out at Vega64/GTX1080/RTX2070 level or if can make it to RadeonVII/GTX1080Ti/RTX2080 level.
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post #1262 of 4482 Old 04-25-2019, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Kuat View Post
Thanks for the input.

There already seems to be a 2.0b active adapter.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...?ie=UTF8&psc=1

Hopefully 2.1 soon. But so far no current PC video cards offer 2.1 hdmi output anyway.
Yes, but as I mentioned, those 2.0 active adapters arrived on the market about 2 years after 2.0 came out from what I could find. So it might be a while before one appears.

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post #1263 of 4482 Old 04-25-2019, 12:07 PM
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Have we gotten a conclusion on BFI at 120hz? Reading this thread, it was initially ruled out then multiple users reported LG customer service informing them that it would be coming via a firmware update.
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post #1264 of 4482 Old 04-25-2019, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Maybejames View Post
Is there an official source for this?
What on earth went wrong there! That’s a big feature missing from that flagshipTV design.
Wonder if this a hardware thing? Or something that can be sorted OTA with firmware?

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I suspect the connection between the electronics and the panel doesn't have enough pins for the required controls and they didn't think making the cable bigger was worth it for just VRR reasons. There may be other features the W9 doesn't get as a result either. I wonder if the improved BFI is part of the W9 (well right now it isn't part of any model, but hoepfully that gets resolved).

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post #1265 of 4482 Old 04-25-2019, 12:59 PM
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Guys back on topic to C9/E9 owners please. There are other threads to talk about future tech and things like that. Thank you
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post #1266 of 4482 Old 04-25-2019, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Pronub View Post
Have we gotten a conclusion on BFI at 120hz? Reading this thread, it was initially ruled out then multiple users reported LG customer service informing them that it would be coming via a firmware update.
No.
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post #1267 of 4482 Old 04-25-2019, 01:25 PM
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Cool

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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Based on what?
Based on 2020 number year and on 2019 models being sub-par.
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post #1268 of 4482 Old 04-25-2019, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 View Post
You guys know that AMD is possibly launching new GPUs later this year, right?
AMD has been behind nVidia at least 1 generation behind for the last 10 years, at least. I so i wouldn't hold my breath.

As soon as AMD releases something new, nVidia is gonna top it off right away.

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post #1269 of 4482 Old 04-25-2019, 01:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Kuat View Post
AMD has been behind nVidia at least 1 generation behind for the last 1 years, at least. I so i wouldn't hold my breath.
But wasn't the original point of the discussion one of feature-set though, specifically HDMI 2.1, not absolute raw performance?

This is why I specifically mentioned that Navi is the architecture used in the next-gen PlayStation as it's already been confirmed that said PlayStation will support 8k output (presumably for video only) which practically guarantees HDMI 2.1 output support (otherwise it'd be limited to 4:2:0 8bit 30Hz).


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As soon as AMD releases something new, nVidia is gonna top it off right away.
Isn't such a strategy only going to work on the higher-end (e.g. RTX series)?

I say this because Nvidia has only just recently released their mid-range non-RTX (GTX) Turing GPUs and it's looking like it's the mid-range Navi GPUs that AMD will be launching first.

Unless you're telling me that Nvidia is planning on making the mid-range Turing GPUs only have a generational life of maybe 6 months...

Last edited by NintendoManiac64; 04-25-2019 at 01:45 PM. Reason: improved wording
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post #1270 of 4482 Old 04-25-2019, 01:53 PM
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post #1271 of 4482 Old 04-25-2019, 02:08 PM
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Any indication on RTINGs' review yet? I'm disappointed that there hasn't really been any in-depth VRR testing in the reviews so far.



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Originally Posted by Kuat View Post
AMD has been behind nVidia at least 1 generation behind for the last 10 years, at least. I so i wouldn't hold my breath.

As soon as AMD releases something new, nVidia is gonna top it off right away.

This is not true. The AMD R9 290X, which launched 5.5 years ago, tied the GTX Titan and beat the GTX 780, at a good bit cheaper MSRP than the latter. AMD has only been one generation behind from the 1080 Ti and 2080 Ti, and about half-gen behind the 980 Ti.


I have the Radeon VII; replaced a GTX 1080 Ti with it. It is a good card, competitive to the 2080 and less expensive. NVIDIA is further hamstrung by not support VRR-over-HDMI. Unfortunate since the only truly-great HDR monitors which support VRR are the LG OLEDs and the Samsung flagships. GSYNC was a losing bet and it blew up in NVIDIA's face, so you might not see NVIDIA with any kind of compatibility with VRR-over-HDMI for 18-24 months.


Ouch.

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post #1272 of 4482 Old 04-25-2019, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 View Post
But wasn't the original point of the discussion one of feature-set though, specifically HDMI 2.1, not absolute raw performance?
No one wants AMD. Sorry for being crude. It's just that nVidia always outperforms.
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post #1273 of 4482 Old 04-25-2019, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Ozymandis;57954758.
GSYNC was a losing bet and it blew up in NVIDIA's face.
I would rather take Gsynch than Freesynch just because nNvida cards are much superior.
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post #1274 of 4482 Old 04-25-2019, 02:26 PM
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Please take the NON-C9-E9 discussions to the appropriate forum/thread or use the PM.

I don't want to have to delete a bunch of posts, but if this continues, that will be my only option (along with possible temp thread bans for repeat abusers).

Thanks
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post #1275 of 4482 Old 04-25-2019, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
I do love my 110" from 15FT, I think you OLED guys would be blown away with what a JVC projector can do in a controlled room
It's funny because a 110" screen from 15 feet offers a 29.8 degrees viewing angle, while a 77" screen from 10 feet offers a 31.2 degrees viewing angle. I still feel that the 110" screen, somehow, would be that much more impressive.
(sorry for the offtopic)


Edit: I replied while on the page of the post I was replying to. I did not willfully ignore the moderator above this post. I wanted to put in context the viewing experience of a 77" in a "normal" living room situation vs. a big screen projector but if this is too much offtopic, feel free to delete it. Sorry again.
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post #1276 of 4482 Old 04-25-2019, 05:09 PM
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The c9 rtings review was supposed to happen this week, where is it, close to friday, curious to check out the peak brightness and volume measurements and how they compare to last year's c8. Rtings seemingly wasted few weeks time on reviewing a couple of samjunk qleds or they could have attended to the c9 sooner.
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post #1277 of 4482 Old 04-25-2019, 05:24 PM
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C9 65" first impressions relative to C7 65"

I've had a C7 65" for a couple of years. Due to my desire for 4k @ 120Hz, faster menu navigation, better all-around image processing, much improved near black, brighter game mode HDR tone mapping (even if a little less objectively accurate to EOTF) I've decided to upgrade to a C9 65".

My professional experience is that I work some successful Vegas shows as a projection tech and cinematographer. Here are my first impressions of how the C9 compares to C7. (I've also posted this in the C7 owner's thread.) (~3,000hrs with C7 and ~7hrs with C9 in the same dark, light controlled environment)

TL;DR: If what you care about is very critical image fidelity across all sorts of formats, menu and app navigation responsiveness, game mode HDR brightness, then I think this feels like a substantial upgrade from the C7. Cleaner, sharper, faster, smoother in all aspects. Anything older than a C7 (I had a C6 as well) and the quality gap is even wider. I'm surprised. Considering the lack of hardware supporting HDMI 2.1, I have no way of testing the performance there.

If anyone wants me to compare certain footage from the same source and share thoughts, I'm willing to do so provided I have the Blu-ray or link to content. (Also, I can upload to my GoogleDrive some high quality demo footage in SDR and HDR, if desired.)

Physically, C9 is heavier with a sleeker looking stand that I prefer. Grey backing & stand look a lot nicer.

Feels a bit larger due to the bezel's size decrease (I think it's from 1.1mm to .9mm).

Navigating the menu is much snappier, close to instantaneous.

TV internal speakers surprisingly decent.

Coming out of black is much nicer, near black no longer crushed, even when bt.1886 is engaged in SDR the black crush is improved. (This is a huge+ for me. I returned a B6 because of the crush and even the C7's amount of crush can get irritating.)

Image processing
C9 produces all around better images, especially concerning lower quality content. Noise reduction features work quite well without introducing too much negative consequences like smudginess, but it does soften some desirable high frequency details. The smooth gradation option low - high work quite well without absolutely ruining sharpness. It works especially well in older video games that have been given an HDR update (Halo 3's skyboxes can get pretty blocky.)

Screen uniformity, OLED 'streaks or striping' & color cast in white.
Much better, at least with this particular panel. Grey uniformity is perfect in all areas where I noticed it with my C6 and C7s. My C7 (which I also got lucky with) had some noticeable OLED vertical striping in certain just above black scenes. (Arrival 2016 would reveal the most banding). White seems slightly more punchy and cleaner, even at the same output of 120nits. My C7 can have a noticeable yellow blotchiness in 100% white and white in general never felt especially clean & punchy. The 100% white color cast in this C9 seems to veer toward magenta, but it's much less noticeable and at first glance feels more pristine -- I think magenta is more tolerable than an off-yellowish. Only when really dwelling on it is it noticeable. This C9 is as flawless as one could hope for, with only one light vertical banding streak on the mid-left side, very rarely noticeable, even when dwelling on it.

Motion performance in all areas seems improved and it hard to explain why.. it's just plain smoother in all content so far. The Black Frame Insertion in 60Hz+ SDR content is quite cool as it substantially improves motion resolution, but the brightness hit is substantial -- I hope they add the Low, Medium, High BFI options. Unstable 30Hz content, like Bloodborne on PS4 Pro, is VERY flicker prone and unusable. Yet very frame consistent 30fps like Driveclub works fine. (OLED light at 85 maintains 120nits with BFI in SDR). In HDR, I'm not really willing to live with the luminosity reduction, but with 4k/60p content, BFI provides a dramatic increase in motion resolution; it's night and day smoother.

Game mode HDR is, or rather feels, substantially brighter yet still looks "right," for the most part. It's hard now to tell any difference in fidelity from Game mode and Expert modes in SDR and HDR. I love it. HOWEVER, some HDR content is either mastered or converted oddly, resulting in lifted blacks (Uncharted 4 is one example). The C9's HDR bright highlight extender seems to exaggerate the lifted blacks, but it's grayed out in Game HDR modem which is funny because that's the inverse of previous models where Game mode was inaccurately locked in other ways. Checked with games running on a 2080Ti PC and PS4 Pro. Mortal Kombat 11, Forza 4 look stunning. Spiderman, Gran Turismo Sport, Horizon Zero Dawn, The Last of Us, all look dramatically better, imo, regardless of the less objectively accurate EOTF tracking.

Game mode SDR also looks indistinguishable from ISF modes, but why this couldn't be changed in previous models with software update boggles the mind. The Wide gamut game mode lock in previous models is really annoying.

Input latency with a PC in desktop (4k, 60p and 1080p, 120p) is fast and frankly hard to tell as up to nearly double the C7's (~21ms - C7 vs 14ms - C9). Even when side by side with a 144Hz, 1ms TN panel. The C9 feels equally as fast as that panel where the C7 maybe felt ever so slightly more sluggish. I thought this would be easier to feel but it's actually not quite as noticeable, but I'm glad it's faster nonetheless.

Basic SDR calibration with an i1 Display Pro:
ISF Dark Room and Game mode:
OLED Light 34 (120 nits)
Color Temp: Warm 2 with High Gain Red -6 (6500k)

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Last edited by JustaPlacebo; 04-25-2019 at 05:27 PM. Reason: typos
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post #1278 of 4482 Old 04-25-2019, 05:51 PM
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Originally Posted by JustaPlacebo View Post
HOWEVER, some HDR content is either mastered or converted oddly, resulting in lifted blacks (Uncharted 4 is one example).
Not all games are going to have true HDR even if they list HDR. Some games just scale the brightness of the non-hdr info that they have into the hdr space. This give the brightness range of hdr but does not put the content into the full hdr colorspace. Its possible that the overall lightening of the scene is due to sdr color content being converted into hdr brightness space. I don't know if this is the case with Uncharted 4. Creating a true HDR game is complicated and costly because not only does your engine have to be updated to support hdr throughout but all of your old art and assets might need to get remade.
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post #1279 of 4482 Old 04-25-2019, 06:01 PM
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Originally Posted by emmapeel159 View Post
Not all games are going to have true HDR even if they list HDR. Some games just scale the brightness of the non-hdr info that they have into the hdr space. This give the brightness range of hdr but does not put the content into the full hdr colorspace. Its possible that the overall lightening of the scene is due to sdr color content being converted into hdr brightness space. I don't know if this is the case with Uncharted 4. Creating a true HDR game is complicated and costly because not only does your engine have to be updated to support hdr throughout but all of your old art and assets might need to get remade.
That's what most ps4 pro games do. That silly hdr slider in games that can be toggled does not mean the game works in true hdr. ps4 pro does not have the power to do true hdr while still having great looking in game textures/detail and stable framerates.
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post #1280 of 4482 Old 04-25-2019, 06:08 PM
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That's what most ps4 pro games do. That silly hdr slider in games that can be toggled does not mean the game works in true hdr. ps4 pro does not have the power to do true hdr while still having great looking in game textures/detail and stable framerates.
Whaaaat. What's it doing? God of War, Gran Turismo Sport, and Infamous: Second Son seem to process HDR quite well..
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post #1281 of 4482 Old 04-25-2019, 06:16 PM
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Whaaaat. What's it doing? God of War, Gran Turismo Sport, and Infamous: Second Son seem to process HDR quite well..
It still looks better than sdr if the brightness mapping into the hdr colorspace doesnt make the whites appear too blown out, but that's the trick most ps4 pro games employ (gt sport probably doesnt fall in this category but not sure about that one). For true hdr see (for eg.) forza 7 on xbox one x.

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post #1282 of 4482 Old 04-25-2019, 06:43 PM
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Originally Posted by JustaPlacebo View Post
TL;DR: If what you care about is very critical image fidelity across all sorts of formats, menu and app navigation responsiveness, game mode HDR brightness, then I think this feels like a substantial upgrade from the C7. Cleaner, sharper, faster, smoother in all aspects. Anything older than a C7 (I had a C6 as well) and the quality gap is even wider.
Compared to a 2017 or 2016 oled, the C9 provides a good leap i agree, but compared to 2018 oleds it's not much of a leap, simply because a c8 was already a good bit better than a c7. For a 2017 or earlier owner seeking an upgrade, the C9 might be worth it, for a 2018 owner the subtle improvements do not warrant an upgrade (a calibrator in this thread said as much). For a 2018 owner seeking an upgrade, and who still wants to stick with the lg brand, it might be worthwhile waiting a couple more of years and upgrade when top emission panels arrive.
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post #1283 of 4482 Old 04-25-2019, 06:47 PM
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Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
That's what most ps4 pro games do. That silly hdr slider in games that can be toggled does not mean the game works in true hdr. ps4 pro does not have the power to do true hdr while still having great looking in game textures/detail and stable framerates.

Horizon Zero Dawn looks pretty damn good, especially considering 4k/HDR was added late in the development process.
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post #1284 of 4482 Old 04-25-2019, 07:53 PM
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Horizon Zero Dawn looks pretty damn good, especially considering 4k/HDR was added late in the development process.
As do most Sony exclusives. No idea what that dude was talking about as Horizon, Detroit, Shadow of the Colossus, Gran Turismo Sport, God of War, Uncharted Lost Legacy and Wipeout are all in the top tier of HDR implementations. Last of Us is their only game with a shoddy implementation.
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post #1285 of 4482 Old 04-25-2019, 08:45 PM
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Horizon Zero Dawn looks pretty damn good, especially considering 4k/HDR was added late in the development process.
It looks good wasn't the point (horizon's graphics looks good in sdr too), it was about most ps4 games save a handful of exclusives not employing true hdr. Just like games that employ checkerboard 4k to deliver 4k resolution can also look good but checkerboard 4k is not native 3840x2160. Of course the signal sent from the console to your tv/AVR would still be 4k or in the case of hdr, the console would still send hdr10 metadata to your tv/AVR. There's an entire thread on this gaming forum i post that discusses whether ps4 games do true hdr, i could quote some posts but i guess this thread would again devolve a little off track into ps4 games' discussion, so let's keep it to c9/e9.
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post #1286 of 4482 Old 04-26-2019, 01:31 AM
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I have the Radeon VII; replaced a GTX 1080 Ti ...
Ouch.

Hi Ozymandis, since you have a Radeon VII, could you pls. connect it to the TV in order to see if new AMD drivers support VRR?


Thanks
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post #1287 of 4482 Old 04-26-2019, 03:24 AM
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Hi everyone, first post here ! I'm getting a 55C9 this evening, can't wait ! I initially choose to go with the Samsung 55Q90R but decided to exchange it after two weeks for various reason.

Everything is ready, all my cables are passed behind the wall, just waiting to be plugged.

This will be my first OLED, coming for a Samsung KS8000. If you guys have some tips for LG starters please don't hesitate
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post #1288 of 4482 Old 04-26-2019, 03:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustaPlacebo View Post
I've had a C7 65" for a couple of years. Due to my desire for 4k @ 120Hz, faster menu navigation, better all-around image processing, much improved near black, brighter game mode HDR tone mapping (even if a little less objectively accurate to EOTF) I've decided to upgrade to a C9 65".
Thanks for the great post. Much appreciated.
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post #1289 of 4482 Old 04-26-2019, 04:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Boomchil View Post
Hi everyone, first post here ! I'm getting a 55C9 this evening, can't wait ! I initially choose to go with the Samsung 55Q90R but decided to exchange it after two weeks for various reason.

Everything is ready, all my cables are passed behind the wall, just waiting to be plugged.

This will be my first OLED, coming for a Samsung KS8000. If you guys have some tips for LG starters please don't hesitate

Congrats!
1. Kiss bye bye to the horrible Tizen OS and annoying ARC power on, power off issues.
2. Don't do any weird slides to check the screen when you get it.
3. IMPORTANT Enjoy the heck out of your TV!
4. See point 4
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post #1290 of 4482 Old 04-26-2019, 04:31 AM
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Guys, is there any way to replace the default "wallpaper" photos on the TV with your own?

The four stock photos are driving me nuts (the ones that appear on the screen when there is no input selected).

They're so annoying that i'm considering rooting the tv's WebOS, so that i can replace them.
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