2019 C9–E9 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 490 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #14671 of 15556 Old 05-25-2020, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by drumminj View Post
Ah-ha! I have two SB2000 Pros. Is it the bluetooth on them?


How did you narrow it to the subwoofer?
No, it's just the vibrations. It will happen 3 times on the WOTW pod emergence scene if I leave the remote on the side table next to our couch.
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post #14672 of 15556 Old 05-25-2020, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by TechNerd666 View Post
False.

Prime app does support Dolby vision on Apple TV.
not natively. you have to force the HDR10 signal from the amazon app to convert it to DV. Not ideal for most unless you prefer everything to show in dolby vision regardless of how the source is encoded.

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post #14673 of 15556 Old 05-25-2020, 11:28 AM
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Originally Posted by TechNerd666 View Post
False.

Prime app does support Dolby vision on Apple TV.
ITYM "true", because you are merely confirming what the post says and agreeing with him.

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post #14674 of 15556 Old 05-25-2020, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by drumminj View Post
A search didn't turn up anything, but sorry if I missed it somewhere...


Has anyone else had an issue on the c9 where the 'Channels' left toolbar/menu shows randomly?


This happens to me with relative frequency and I can't identify a cause. At first I thought maybe I bumped the remote, but it's happened even when not, and I can't even find a button on the remote which shows the bar on the left side of the screen and doesn't bring anything else up.


My other guess is some interference the TV is picking up, but I can't imagine what that is either.


No universal remote. Signal is XBox One X => Marantz 6014 => TV, no HDMI control/CEC/etc enabled.

Had the same issue. I had that issue with my C7 as well though it will trigger a different function on the TV rather than what is being triggered on my current C9 where even putting a cup on my table will trigger a left panel and the programme option being selected on it.

It is consistent and will only happen after a period of inactivity on the remote.

As mentioned, this same issue was already prevalent on my C7. So I am not surprised that it is also here with my C9 as well even with its own separate remote. The remote is just that sensitive though I have no idea why it will make the left panel with Programme highlighted appear alongside the mouse cursor on the TV. Oh well...
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post #14675 of 15556 Old 05-25-2020, 04:22 PM
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Originally Posted by akadennis View Post
**Netflix actually plays at a higher Mbps on the apple TV than on the TV's built in app. TV looks like it maxes out at 15.25Mbps where as the apple TV maxes out at 24.64Mbps so technically it should look better on the apple TV.
Where did you get this information? That would be news to me, have you checked it yourself?
And it would make no sense at all, why would Netflix have a higher bitrate version of their series/movies on their servers that only an AppleTV can access?

Netflix has always used 15.25 Mbps for their 4K content, for all players and on all platforms. We know this for a fact because in Europe due to Covid19, the bandwidth for UHD streams was reduced to 7.62 Mbps for over a month - again for all players and platforms.

Are you sure you're not talking about iTunes content here because that content actually uses higher bit rates than Netflix.
ATV+ / iTunes UHD content has variable bit rates with an average rate of ~25 Mbps.
Prime Video uses ~16 Mbps for UHD.
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post #14676 of 15556 Old 05-25-2020, 06:13 PM
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Originally Posted by HiFi4Vision View Post
Where did you get this information? That would be news to me, have you checked it yourself?
And it would make no sense at all, why would Netflix have a higher bitrate version of their series/movies on their servers that only an AppleTV can access?

Netflix has always used 15.25 Mbps for their 4K content, for all players and on all platforms. We know this for a fact because in Europe due to Covid19, the bandwidth for UHD streams was reduced to 7.62 Mbps for over a month - again for all players and platforms.

Are you sure you're not talking about iTunes content here because that content actually uses higher bit rates than Netflix.
ATV+ / iTunes UHD content has variable bit rates with an average rate of ~25 Mbps.
Prime Video uses ~16 Mbps for UHD.
yes I did check it myself, i was trying to add a screen shot from xcode but .tiff format is not supported. i'm watching Bad Boys for Life on Amazon Prime in HDR and it's showing a bitrate peak of 12.60 Mbps. The same movie on itunes in Dolby Vision is showing a bitrate peak of 24.54 Mbps. On netflix I'm watching night on earth in dolby vision and its showing a bitrate peak of 24.45 Mbps where as the same show on the LG built in app it's showing 15.25 Mbps.

** Now I'm watching Disney Plus which this surprises me for Maleficient Mistress of Evil it's showing 28.67 Mpbs

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Last edited by akadennis; 05-25-2020 at 06:19 PM.
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post #14677 of 15556 Old 05-25-2020, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by HiFi4Vision View Post
...

Netflix has always used 15.25 Mbps for their 4K content, for all players and on all platforms. We know this for a fact because in Europe due to Covid19, the bandwidth for UHD streams was reduced to 7.62 Mbps for over a month - again for all players and platforms.

Are you sure you're not talking about iTunes content here because that content actually uses higher bit rates than Netflix.
ATV+ / iTunes UHD content has variable bit rates with an average rate of ~25 Mbps.
Prime Video uses ~16 Mbps for UHD.
I’ve found recently that Netflix reduced 4K SDR (at least in my area) to 11.44 Mbps. 4K HDR is still at 15.25. This has been for the last couple of weeks at least.

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post #14678 of 15556 Old 05-25-2020, 07:45 PM
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Seeing as the C9 is sold out at most everywhere, I was considering getting an E9, as they can be had for cheaper still than the CX.


Is there any difference between the C9 and the E9, other than the better speakers in the E9?

I know there was a post a while back that showed you how to use CRU to get LPCM with a PC, does that trick work on the E9 too? (And if you have the post, please share it again!)




Sorry for the plethora of questions, but any help would be appreciated!
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post #14679 of 15556 Old 05-25-2020, 07:55 PM
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Wanted to get some opinions on 4k bluray featuring Dolby Vision. I recently purchased a 77C9 and have thoroughly enjoyed it so far. I have a sony x800 4k blu ray player which works fine but doesn't have Dolby Vision playback. I currently let the dynamic tone mapping on the Lg do it's thing for 4k blu rays. Is dolby vision on blu ray a noticeable difference vs using the tone mapping on the LG? I'd rather hang on to my player if I can for a while longer.
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post #14680 of 15556 Old 05-25-2020, 10:00 PM
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So, after 7 months (time flies!) of ownership I am happy with my calibrated set. But yesterday I saw a greyscale slide which showed vertical lines in the panel. Should I worry? And yes, the lines are visible in normal content. Like “The Invisible Man” movie. It’s a dark movie throughout.


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post #14681 of 15556 Old 05-25-2020, 10:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Sonyboy View Post
Wanted to get some opinions on 4k bluray featuring Dolby Vision. I recently purchased a 77C9 and have thoroughly enjoyed it so far. I have a sony x800 4k blu ray player which works fine but doesn't have Dolby Vision playback. I currently let the dynamic tone mapping on the Lg do it's thing for 4k blu rays. Is dolby vision on blu ray a noticeable difference vs using the tone mapping on the LG? I'd rather hang on to my player if I can for a while longer.
'
I have a Sony X700 with DV and I don't use it because you have to manually set it to DV, and if you forget to turn it off after watching your movie, then it will default to DV for everything, including SDR BDs and even DVDs..... lame.

I have used my Spears & Munsil 4K disc to test both DV and HDR 10, and I couldn't notice any difference so I just leave DV off and watch everything in HDR10..... maybe if I had a side-by-side real time comparison then I would've seen a difference, I don't know.
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post #14682 of 15556 Old 05-25-2020, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by IMWhizzle View Post
So, after 7 months (time flies!) of ownership I am happy with my calibrated set. But yesterday I saw a greyscale slide which showed vertical lines in the panel. Should I worry? And yes, the lines are visible in normal content. Like “The Invisible Man” movie. It’s a dark movie throughout.

Wish the movie was called "The Invisible Banding".
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post #14683 of 15556 Old 05-25-2020, 10:30 PM
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Wish the movie was called "The Invisible Banding".

So this is not normal? Or should I contact my dealer?

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post #14684 of 15556 Old 05-25-2020, 10:31 PM
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Originally Posted by mountainmohawk View Post
Seeing as the C9 is sold out at most everywhere . . .

J-just . . . um . . . give me a moment. . . uh . . . there seems to be something in my eye . . .
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post #14685 of 15556 Old 05-25-2020, 10:37 PM
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So this is not normal? Or should I contact my dealer?
Unfortunately, this is VERY normal with these sets.

Most people have banding of some sort. The hope is not having it show in actual content.
Then if it does, the question is how much can you ignore?

Curious, you have had the set this long and are only now noticing it? If so, that would be an argument for doing slide tests during the return period. The opposite argument can be made as well - if you only started noticing this in content after running greyscale slides.

Yes you can call LG and hope for the best. But the problem here is that they will test your panel with a very bright slide test that will on purpose mask your problem. People have taken pics of their slides and how it shows up in content, but often LG's techs are "instructed" to ignore this.

Others who have gone through this can better advise you, but that is the gist of it.

I really hope you have a good outcome on all of this.

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post #14686 of 15556 Old 05-25-2020, 11:40 PM
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Originally Posted by D Bone View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonyboy View Post
Wanted to get some opinions on 4k bluray featuring Dolby Vision. I recently purchased a 77C9 and have thoroughly enjoyed it so far. I have a sony x800 4k blu ray player which works fine but doesn't have Dolby Vision playback. I currently let the dynamic tone mapping on the Lg do it's thing for 4k blu rays. Is dolby vision on blu ray a noticeable difference vs using the tone mapping on the LG? I'd rather hang on to my player if I can for a while longer.
'
I have a Sony X700 with DV and I don't use it because you have to manually set it to DV, and if you forget to turn it off after watching your movie, then it will default to DV for everything, including SDR BDs and even DVDs..... lame.

I have used my Spears & Munsil 4K disc to test both DV and HDR 10, and I couldn't notice any difference so I just leave DV off and watch everything in HDR10..... maybe if I had a side-by-side real time comparison then I would've seen a difference, I don't know.
Thanks for the feedback!!
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post #14687 of 15556 Old 05-26-2020, 12:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Sonyboy View Post
Wanted to get some opinions on 4k bluray featuring Dolby Vision. I recently purchased a 77C9 and have thoroughly enjoyed it so far. I have a sony x800 4k blu ray player which works fine but doesn't have Dolby Vision playback. I currently let the dynamic tone mapping on the Lg do it's thing for 4k blu rays. Is dolby vision on blu ray a noticeable difference vs using the tone mapping on the LG? I'd rather hang on to my player if I can for a while longer.
'
I notice a bit of black crush with HDR10 than with DV. But I'm perfectly happy with the HDR10 on the occasion I watch HDR.

I have the Sony X700, that yes, you have to manually change to DV.
The Sony X700 is very sharp and clear but the HDR on it is very dark no matter the settings. (I originally thought that HDR looked like this). So I avoid my Sony player all together. I also thought the 24p cadence was slightly off.

When I bought the Panasonic 420, the HDR looked both brighter AND more dynamic. Spot on 24p cadence with all Pannys.
The Panasonic doesn't have DV at all. You have to get the much more expensive model for that.
So... I just stick with HDR on the occasion I'm not watching all my SDR movies.

Another consideration is most movies are SDR, a few are HDR10, and much fewer are DV.
So it's hard for me to get all worked up accommodating something that is few and far between with the physical media I use.

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post #14688 of 15556 Old 05-26-2020, 02:46 AM
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So this is not normal? Or should I contact my dealer?
perfectly normal. i have seen much much worse. to me it looks well within specs. all oled's have some sort of banding. if banding bothers you then you probably should not get an OLED. Yes it shows up in content but for me its so minimal that i hardly notice it on my set. just my 2 cents.
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post #14689 of 15556 Old 05-26-2020, 02:57 AM
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Originally Posted by HiFi4Vision View Post
Netflix has always used 15.25 Mbps for their 4K content, for all players and on all platforms. We know this for a fact because in Europe due to Covid19, the bandwidth for UHD streams was reduced to 7.62 Mbps for over a month - again for all players and platforms.
Thankyou. I doubted it too. Just to say, although you've used the past tense here "was reduced", Netflix has gone completely silent on this topic. It still IS reduced. Other than that one news article, which said they were starting to remove the restriction, it has definitely not happened here for me in the UK. Just checked again, and Drive To Survive s2 (4k Dolby Vision) is still 9.15Mbps. There is no sign whatsoever of the even normal bandwidth, let alone the high bandwidths you are talking about here.

Notice also that Netflix is talking about "working with ISPs to help increase capacity", as if such an upgrade is now a pre-condition. That upgrade wasn't required to be in place in February. They are just moving goalposts.

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post #14690 of 15556 Old 05-26-2020, 03:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akadennis View Post
yes I did check it myself, i was trying to add a screen shot from xcode but .tiff format is not supported. i'm watching Bad Boys for Life on Amazon Prime in HDR and it's showing a bitrate peak of 12.60 Mbps. The same movie on itunes in Dolby Vision is showing a bitrate peak of 24.54 Mbps.
This was to be expected because it is exactly what I described. iTunes content uses a higher bitrate than Netflix or Amazon Prime. Of course, this also applies to the webOS AppleTV app, i.e. you have no advantage from an AppleTV device in this respect.

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On netflix I'm watching night on earth in dolby vision and its showing a bitrate peak of 24.45 Mbps where as the same show on the LG built in app it's showing 15.25 Mbps.
Are you sure you are measuring the video bitrate and not the network bandwidth?
And do you use the Netflix app in both cases, i. e. the webOS Netflix app and the tvOS Netflix app?
It is quite impossible to get a variant with a higher video bitrate on an AppleTV from the Netflix servers. Simply because Netflix does not provide videos with a higher video bitrate.

Either you're measuring the network bandwidth here or the videos are not coming from Netflix but from iTunes.

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post #14691 of 15556 Old 05-26-2020, 03:41 AM
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Just to say, although you've used the past tense here "was reduced", Netflix has gone completely silent on this topic. It still IS reduced. Other than that one news article, which said they were starting to remove the restriction, it has definitely not happened here for me in the UK.
Sad to hear they haven't changed it back in the U.K. yet. But I can definitely confirm that it was taken back on the mainland within the last week. Netflix has also officially confirmed this.

It should be noted that it took a few days to get all the content back to higher bitrates. Netflix had to redistribute the content to their CDN servers.
While the distribution was running, some content was already available at the higher bitrate and others were not depending on their status.
Now that the distribution is done, all UHD content is visible again with 15.25 Mbps - at least here in my region.
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post #14692 of 15556 Old 05-26-2020, 04:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sonyboy View Post
Wanted to get some opinions on 4k bluray featuring Dolby Vision. I recently purchased a 77C9 and have thoroughly enjoyed it so far. I have a sony x800 4k blu ray player which works fine but doesn't have Dolby Vision playback. I currently let the dynamic tone mapping on the Lg do it's thing for 4k blu rays. Is dolby vision on blu ray a noticeable difference vs using the tone mapping on the LG? I'd rather hang on to my player if I can for a while longer.
So your actual question is whether HDR10 with DTM is comparable with Dolby Vision.
The difference between LG's DTM and Dolby Vision should theoretically always be visible, but in practice this is not necessarily the case.

LG's DTM algorithm tries to do on the fly what is done in the mastering process with Dolby Vision. This means that with Dolby Vision content, after the automatic tone mapping is applied, someone looks at the movie again and manually corrects the tone mapping values. Not only are the overall values for the movie corrected, but also those of scenes or even frames that don't look the way they should.

LG's automatic algorithm for dynamic tone mapping, on the other hand, can be more or less off in reality and depending on the content.
A badly mastered Dolby Vision film won't necessarily look better than an HDR10 film with DTM. With a well mastered film, however, the difference should be quite visible. How much you perceive is subjective and depends other factors as well (the content itself, your environment etc.)

Finally, it should be mentioned that Dolby Vision works with up to 12 bits, while HDR10 uses only 10 bits. Theoretically, you lose a bit of quality here, but in practice, very little of it should be visible - especially with a 10 bit panel.

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post #14693 of 15556 Old 05-26-2020, 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by HiFi4Vision View Post
Sad to hear they haven't changed it back in the U.K. yet. But I can definitely confirm that it was taken back on the mainland within the last week. Netflix has also officially confirmed this.

It should be noted that it took a few days to get all the content back to higher bitrates. Netflix had to redistribute the content to their CDN servers.
While the distribution was running, some content was already available at the higher bitrate and others were not depending on their status.
Now that the distribution is done, all UHD content is visible again with 15.25 Mbps - at least here in my region.
That's cool and many thanks for the information! I did try to find anything official from Netflix but came up short
What I did find was this though - a bit embarrassing for LG: https://media.netflix.com/en/company...ed-televisions
includes 8 no-dolby-vision-Samsungs, but zero LGs

edit: this article from last week sums up a lot of the anger: https://variety.com/2020/digital/new...es-1234605316/
ludicrous quote from Netflix:
Quote:
According to the exec, that’s because it is continuing to deliver the specified video resolutions for HD (1920 x 1080) and Ultra HD (3840 x 2160) while it has “removed the highest-bandwidth streams.” Florance did acknowledge, however, “If you are particularly tuned into video quality you may notice a very slight decrease in quality within each resolution.”
"may"? "Very slight"? and only people who are picky "may" notice this "very slight" degradation? What a liar.

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post #14694 of 15556 Old 05-26-2020, 04:36 AM
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Originally Posted by HiFi4Vision View Post
This was to be expected because it is exactly what I described. iTunes content uses a higher bitrate than Netflix or Amazon Prime. Of course, this also applies to the webOS AppleTV app, i.e. you have no advantage from an AppleTV device in this respect.


Are you sure you are measuring the video bitrate and not the network bandwidth?
And do you use the Netflix app in both cases, i. e. the webOS Netflix app and the tvOS Netflix app?
It is quite impossible to get a variant with a higher video bitrate on an AppleTV from the Netflix servers. Simply because Netflix does not provide videos with a higher video bitrate.

Either you're measuring the network bandwidth here or the videos are not coming from Netflix but from iTunes.
i can assure you Im not measuring my network bandwidth. for network bandwidth it says 402.43 Mbps. i currently have verizon gigabit which maxes out at 940 Mbps. i'm as surprised as you are by these numbers but I do know what I'm looking at. to answer your questions, yes I use the netflix app in both cases via webOS and tvOS. I too thought it was impossible until I decided to download XCODE and turned on playback HUD and saw for myself.

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post #14695 of 15556 Old 05-26-2020, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by mrtickleuk View Post
What I did find was this though - a bit embarrassing for LG: https://media.netflix.com/en/company...ed-televisions
includes 8 no-dolby-vision-Samsungs, but zero LGs
I wouldn't worry about that. The "Netflix Recommended TV" logo doesn't mean too much.
And as far as I know it's just the "Always Fresh" criteria that LG TVs don't fulfill. Simply because webOS does not allow background updates of apps.
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post #14696 of 15556 Old 05-26-2020, 05:46 AM
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i'm as surprised as you are by these numbers but I do know what I'm looking at. to answer your questions, yes I use the netflix app in both cases via webOS and tvOS.
The only logical explanation I have is that in this case, the tvOS Developer Playback HUD for the same video simply doesn't show the same technical values as the webOS Netflix overlay does. I.e. even though you do play the same video the two HUDs show different kind of values.

Unfortunately I sold my AppleTV some time ago and can't test it myself anymore. Can you send a sample picture of the HUD showing the values including the name of the video you used for testing?
We can also move this to private messages, as we are getting a bit offtopic and probably not everyone is interested.
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post #14697 of 15556 Old 05-26-2020, 08:24 AM
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.....
I have the Sony X700, that yes, you have to manually change to DV.
The Sony X700 is very sharp and clear but the HDR on it is very dark no matter the settings. (I originally thought that HDR looked like this). So I avoid my Sony player all together. I also thought the 24p cadence was slightly off.
In the 700 and with a disc playing, use the remote and go to: Options > Video Settings > Change from the default "Auto" to "Direct".

EDIT: ^ Play anything but DV. DV grays out the option

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post #14698 of 15556 Old 05-26-2020, 09:23 AM
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Seeing as the C9 is sold out at most everywhere, I was considering getting an E9, as they can be had for cheaper still than the CX.
Is there any difference between the C9 and the E9, other than the better speakers in the E9?
Pretty much the same.....
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post #14699 of 15556 Old 05-26-2020, 10:24 AM
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In the 700 and with a disc playing, use the remote and go to: Options > Video Settings > Change from the default "Auto" to "Direct".

EDIT: ^ Play anything but DV. DV grays out the option
(thanks).

I'm very familiar with that option.

What exactly is that supposed to change with regard to what I have noticed?

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post #14700 of 15556 Old 05-26-2020, 11:47 AM
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(thanks).

I'm very familiar with that option.

What exactly is that supposed to change with regard to what I have noticed?
OK, it's an easy option to miss is why I asked. I instantly noticed a sharper image on both real world and test scenes with it set to Direct.

As for your dim HDR issue, while I do not share your same experience, I just thought it was worth mentioning as the default Auto setting is most certainly applying processing to the image and maybe that was what you were noticing.
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