2019 C9–E9 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 83 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2461 of 10426 Old 05-24-2019, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomcup View Post
So I did the pendulum test for G sync and it did work. With some caveats.
It goes to a black screen for a second after starting and looking like it is tearing, and I have to alt tab to desktop and go back in, I don't know if it is windows Cortana fu**ing it up or not, but once back in it ran smooth. I tested it with multiple times with g sync on and off and it was definitely working, where it was obviously worse and tearing with it and vsync off and frames below 60. So it definitely worked in that test. I was pretty amazed.

BUT I tested it out in a game (Witcher 3) and it did not appear to be working. Tested it off and on, versus vsync vs not, capped frames vs not. I also know gsync works fine in this game on my monitor. I need to try more but also got frustrated that I started getting horizontal line artifacting, like my HDMI cable is going poof or something. 60ft $130 fiberoptic hdmi but it is backed by a good warranty. Hopefully it was just from screwing with stuff too much. I'm not having good luck with things right now.

I'll try more and other games and let you know.


Oh also as for Atmos over eARC for xbox and PC after trying some work arounds to improve latency (receiver game mode, no lip sync). Still definitely a no go due to latency. DTS is okay, but it still sounds better over optical. Since DTS works fine latency wise, I really think it's the way Atmos is encoded on the Xbox and PC. I don't really think it's the TV. It's a problem reported all over the net. I'll still try direct connection eventually to compare.
Okay I just tried again with shutting everything down and having my gsync compatible monitor completely off, then re starting with just TV and PC.

No more option for Gsync.
So as far as I can tell it seems to be a bug if both displays are detected and one is Gsync compatible (even if it's not being used or displayed to)

Sorry to disappoint, but apparently it almost works lol.
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post #2462 of 10426 Old 05-25-2019, 12:15 AM
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Owners of the c9 who upgrade from c7, how does brightness in hdr compare? Is it noticeably better, kinda the same or worse? From rtings’s review, seems like the c9 is a bit brighter in test windows and real scene but has worse abl. It may be down to panel variance though, so I’d like to hear some owners’ experience. Wanted to upgrade to c9 later this year, but the lack of hdmi 2.1 source and vrr is a bummer. Probably should wait for next year 48” c10, but I’m worried with my extensive use (8hr/day of mix hdr gaming and movies), the panel may degrade too much by then.

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post #2463 of 10426 Old 05-25-2019, 01:36 AM
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Exclamation 1440p 120hz works for gaming. Even in HDR

1440p 120hz works for gaming on 77C9 with a 2080ti direct via HDMI. Even in HDR
AND IT LOOKS GLORIOUS

video was set to 4k, 4:2:2 10bit before starting game (battlefield 5), switched to 2560x1440 at 120hz in game and it worked and stayed HDR no problem. Unless I go through my receiver I can't check what chroma sampling it is in, but it certainly looks great. It's gaming monitor smooth. It's going to be a tough choice between 4k 60 or 1440 120.
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post #2464 of 10426 Old 05-25-2019, 03:10 AM
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I wonder if rtings.com thoroughly test TVs anymore. They seem to rush to publish.
4K HDR input lag error on C9 and I don't understand their opinion on DTM.
C9's DTM works wonders on static metadata based HDR10. It's amazing. DTM gives DV a run for its money.
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post #2465 of 10426 Old 05-25-2019, 03:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomcup View Post
1440p 120hz works for gaming on 77C9 with a 2080ti direct via HDMI. Even in HDR
AND IT LOOKS GLORIOUS

video was set to 4k, 4:2:2 10bit before starting game (battlefield 5), switched to 2560x1440 at 120hz in game and it worked and stayed HDR no problem. Unless I go through my receiver I can't check what chroma sampling it is in, but it certainly looks great. It's gaming monitor smooth. It's going to be a tough choice between 4k 60 or 1440 120.
Proof attached.
Lol how can you stand 1440p on a 77” screen? I’m playing 4k on a 55” oled and really want more pixel density. 40”-43” would be ideal for me. I bet 120hz is awesome though.
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post #2466 of 10426 Old 05-25-2019, 03:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc Vu View Post
Lol how can you stand 1440p on a 77” screen? I’m playing 4k on a 55” oled and really want more pixel density. 40”-43” would be ideal for me. I bet 120hz is awesome though.
Same here. [email protected] works on my 2018 Q9FN as well. I choose 4K every time.
4K (which is 1:1 pixel matched) @ 120Hz would be different story though.
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post #2467 of 10426 Old 05-25-2019, 04:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc Vu View Post
Lol how can you stand 1440p on a 77” screen? I’m playing 4k on a 55” oled and really want more pixel density. 40”-43” would be ideal for me. I bet 120hz is awesome though.
First of all, you like what you like, end of story for me.

Having said that, I'm curious: at what distance from your 55" are you playing for having such a clear preference for 2160p as opposed to 1440p?

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post #2468 of 10426 Old 05-25-2019, 05:19 AM
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Doesn’t Xbox one x do 1440p @ 120hz?
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post #2469 of 10426 Old 05-25-2019, 05:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
Doesn’t Xbox one x do 1440p @ 120hz?


Yes it does. I tested Kingdom Hearts 3 and it was smooth as butter.


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post #2470 of 10426 Old 05-25-2019, 06:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorman42 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc Vu View Post
Lol how can you stand 1440p on a 77” screen? I’m playing 4k on a 55” oled and really want more pixel density. 40”-43” would be ideal for me. I bet 120hz is awesome though.
First of all, you like what you like, end of story for me. [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]

Having said that, I'm curious: at what distance from your 55" are you playing for having such a clear preference for 2160p as opposed to 1440p?
I sit extremely close to the tv, less than 1m. I like to see all the close-up details in the game. And I’m near-sighted so yeah. If you sit further away probably 4k is not that discernible from 1440p. 77” is too big for 1440p nonetheless.
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post #2471 of 10426 Old 05-25-2019, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Duc Vu View Post
I sit extremely close to the tv, less than 1m. I like to see all the close-up details in the game. And I’m near-sighted so yeah. If you sit further away probably 4k is not that discernible from 1440p. 77” is too big for 1440p nonetheless.
There's a real case of diminishing returns here. A person with 20/20 vision can see about 80 pixels per degree of their field of vision.
More pixels means you won't be able to see all the detail, fewer pixels and the pixels themselves become visible.

In order to hit the sweet spot of 80 PPD, there's a direct correlation between screen size, screen resolution, and viewing distance. It works out pretty nicely for 16:9 displays:
For 1080p, the ideal viewing distance is twice the diagonal screen size, and for 4K it's equal to the diagonal screen size.

Twice the resolution means you need to double the screen size or halve the viewing distance to see all the detail. And of course it goes even further with 8K, the ideal viewing distance is half the diagonal screen size. The screen pretty much takes up your entire field of vision when you're close enough to see all the detail. Achieving that in a home setting basically requires an entire wall to be the TV.
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post #2472 of 10426 Old 05-25-2019, 07:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
Doesn’t Xbox one x do 1440p @ 120hz?


Yes it does. I tested Kingdom Hearts 3 and it was smooth as butter.


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Is it hdr too at 1440 120hz?

How do you check the input source info on tv? For previous years you clicked upper left of screen with lg remote.
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post #2473 of 10426 Old 05-25-2019, 08:18 AM
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All,

I just ordered a 77" C9 that will be arriving in a week or two. I have very old HDMI cables in my current installation, can anyone recommend some cables that are somewhat "future proof" to run on this set when I install it that will support [email protected] and other next gen features?
If you have 4K devises you will want cables with the badge below, great news is they are under $10 in most cases and found anywhere.....
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post #2474 of 10426 Old 05-25-2019, 08:25 AM
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Vincent's review is up

Vincent used an EDID reader to reveal the VRR range is 40-120 Hz

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Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
Is it hdr too at 1440 120hz?

How do you check the input source info on tv? For previous years you clicked upper left of screen with lg remote.
You have to click the "..." button above the channel up and below the 9 key, then select info.


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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
Yes it does. I tested Kingdom Hearts 3 and it was smooth as butter.
Weird my X always returns a your tv does not support this resolution when selecting 1440 / 120.
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What I have learned: VRR range of the C9 is 40 Hz - 120 Hz according to Vincent.
The review is good as always.
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post #2477 of 10426 Old 05-25-2019, 09:05 AM
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What I have learned: VRR range of the C9 is 40 Hz - 120 Hz according to Vincent.
The review is good as always.
up to 120 Hz is great. Now the question is whether it has any low framerate compensation if it drops below 40 Hz
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post #2478 of 10426 Old 05-25-2019, 09:25 AM
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Have a strange issue with my 65C9.

Its connected to my Denon av receiver via ARC and when I choose optical out on the C9 it switches on my receiver automatically and then goes to ARC sound mode on its own. Has anyone noticed this? It's a pain because on optical output I have my wireless Siberia 840 headphones connected, so everytime I choose optical on the C9 my Denon switches on automatically and I have to get up and switch it off. Lazy me :-)

Never had this with my 65B7.

Could someone pls test and see if they get the same behaviour?
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Can someone measure the footprint of the 65" C9 stand? I am having trouble finding these dimensions anywhere.
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Spoiler Alert, Vincent have the C9 best in class award. It’s interesting that he advises keeping dynamic tone mapping off. Plus, manual calibration is better? On the Sony A9F he preferred the dynamic HDR mode.


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post #2481 of 10426 Old 05-25-2019, 10:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc Vu View Post
Lol how can you stand 1440p on a 77” screen? I’m playing 4k on a 55” oled and really want more pixel density. 40”-43” would be ideal for me. I bet 120hz is awesome though.
Interestingly I felt the same sitting a few feet away playing 4k on my 55 E6, that I would appreciate even more pixels, but I gotta say, double the framerate at 120fps has a pretty magical quality even with less pixels. Less blur to discern more detail. I haven't tried much back and forth yet so I don't know which way I'll choose primarily. I can also probably get away with super sampling up to 4k at 1440p too. Pretty sure on xbox though I'd just leave it at 4k as the overall graphic quality would make 1440p less ideal vs max settings on PC.

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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
It’s interesting that he advises keeping dynamic tone mapping off.
Why intersting? LG's dynamic tone mapping brightens up any scene that doesn't have super bright highlights, a bit similar to samsungs tone mapping which is often critisized for ignoring the EOTF.

Anyone who wants an accurate picture would leave dynamic tone mapping off... At least with LG you have that choice, whereas on a samsung you're stuck with the inaccurate too bright picture.


A proper dynamic tone mapping algorithm would never go above the EOTF, only below it when necessary, but that is not how LG's dynamic tone mappng feature works...
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post #2483 of 10426 Old 05-25-2019, 10:18 AM - Thread Starter
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Why intersting? LG's dynamic tone mapping brightens up any scene that doesn't have super bright highlights, a bit similar to samsungs tone mapping which is often critisized for ignoring the EOTF.

Anyone who wants an accurate picture would leave dynamic tone mapping off... At least with LG you have that choice, whereas on a samsung you're stuck with the inaccurate too bright picture.


A proper dynamic tone mapping algorithm would never go above the EOTF, only below it when necessary, but that is not how LG's dynamic tone mappng feature works...

I was impressed with the tone mapping on Sony’s A9F so LG has some work to do on their algorithm. On a non calibrated C9 it’s best to leave it off correct? I have to give it a go.


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post #2484 of 10426 Old 05-25-2019, 10:26 AM
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I'm pretty sure they did this on purpose as the average TV watcher prefers a brighter HDR picture. Put two TVs side by side in the showroom and I'm sure most people will prefer the brighter picture which goes above the EOTF compared to the more accurate one.
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post #2485 of 10426 Old 05-25-2019, 10:34 AM
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
Spoiler Alert, Vincent have the C9 best in class award. It’s interesting that he advises keeping dynamic tone mapping off. Plus, manual calibration is better? On the Sony A9F he preferred the dynamic HDR mode.


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Excellent review, but what he's not mentioning probably because his test set may not exhibit this problem is "most" 2019 LGs I've seen, have some issue in the CMS. Meaning oversaturated Red, Green, etc... or errors in other colors like brown and orange that isn't always correctable with the user controls and if you have to make large adjustments to try and minimize some of these errors, you run the likely risk of introducing artifacts. The only way to minimize and or correct these errors is by creating a new 3DLUT. I can show this manual vs Autocal with scans when I get a chance. Although there is calibration software such as LS that can do this perfectly, is also true that CalMAN's current 3DLUT implementation is not 100% and can introduce banding visible on test patterns as Vincent showed. Overall I feel it's better to have more CMS accuracy even thought there is some minimal banding that you can see with a test pattern or by viewing the 3DLUT and looking for errors. My feeling it's more important to go by what your eyes actually see vs technical disection. I have verified that the amount of banding is reduced on the 2019 LGs vs the 2018 LGs from my experimentation but i'm not sure why.

There are pro's and con's to every method and some can see this banding in content when pausing a frame, etc, but I've not been able to see this readily with normal content where as some of the other CMS errors can be more pronounced.

Every calibrator has their own process but just wanted to shed more light on this topic.
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post #2486 of 10426 Old 05-25-2019, 10:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks John. Vincent measured 700 nits peak by contrast every review I’ve seen has been around 850. Why the discrepancy?


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post #2487 of 10426 Old 05-25-2019, 11:13 AM
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Thanks John. Vincent measured 700 nits peak by contrast every review I’ve seen has been around 850. Why the discrepancy?


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As I mentioned, there are still panel variations and his panel wasn’t one of the brighter ones and or it needed more adjustments to get the set to D65.

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post #2488 of 10426 Old 05-25-2019, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jk82 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
It’s interesting that he advises keeping dynamic tone mapping off.
Why intersting? LG's dynamic tone mapping brightens up any scene that doesn't have super bright highlights, a bit similar to samsungs tone mapping which is often critisized for ignoring the EOTF.

Anyone who wants an accurate picture would leave dynamic tone mapping off... At least with LG you have that choice, whereas on a samsung you're stuck with the inaccurate too bright picture.


A proper dynamic tone mapping algorithm would never go above the EOTF, only below it when necessary, but that is not how LG's dynamic tone mappng feature works...
Wait. So based on what you just said, the dynamic tone mapping feature does not behave like dolby vision’s dynamic metadata?
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post #2489 of 10426 Old 05-25-2019, 11:49 AM
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Exclamation 77c9 sub pixel macro shots! - Suggests Same New Panel Structure

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Originally Posted by stl8k View Post
Hey @Tomcup and other 2019 77" owners...

There's been forum-wide interest in whether the 77" panel has the pixel structure of the 2017 OLEDs (as the 2018 77" did) or that of the 2019 55" and 65".

If you're able to, a macro shot of the pixel structure would answer the question.

Much appreciated!
Here you go!

First two pictures, my 77C9 - then rtings 65C9 and then a comparison screenshot of the C8 and C7 pics from Rtings - my pictures are the 3 on the left. The Filenames of the C series model are listed on the top left of the rtings photos.
Appears to me to certainly be using the same newer panel as the lower size model. It does not look similar to the C8 or C7.

Big Win!

As a note, I am digitally zooming in to the original photos, so I don't think I can get as much detail as the rtings review, but the shapes still look most like the C9 they pictured.
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Current: LG 77C9 OLED, Denon x6500H @ 7.2.4, Xbox One X, PC w. RTX2080ti
LG 55E6P OLED (Self calibrated with Colormunki Display and HCFR)

Previous: LG 55" EF9500 OLED (Self calibrated with Colormunki Display and HCFR)

Last edited by Tomcup; 05-25-2019 at 12:06 PM.
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post #2490 of 10426 Old 05-25-2019, 11:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
Spoiler Alert, Vincent have the C9 best in class award. It’s interesting that he advises keeping dynamic tone mapping off. Plus, manual calibration is better? On the Sony A9F he preferred the dynamic HDR mode.


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Isn't that only if you've had your display's HDR calibrated?
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