2019 C9–E9 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 84 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2491 of 10271 Old 05-25-2019, 11:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc Vu View Post
Wait. So based on what you just said, the dynamic tone mapping feature does not behave like dolby vision’s dynamic metadata?
LG's dynamic tone mapping is nothing like DV.

DV already knows in advance how to tone map each scene, it doesn't have to adjust on the fly. Also DV is a set standard whereas LG's dynamic tonemapping ignores the EOTF and often brightens up scenes almost as bad as some dynamic contrast setting would do.
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post #2492 of 10271 Old 05-25-2019, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
As I mentioned, there are still panel variations and his panel wasn’t one of the brighter ones and or it needed more adjustments to get the set to D65.
Probably off-topic for this thread and my apologies for asking, but that seems like quite a large variance(850-700) for a mass produced device like these panels. It seems like there would be tighter controls on output rather than an almost 20% variance.
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post #2493 of 10271 Old 05-25-2019, 01:51 PM
 
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Few weeks ago on this forum in another thread, i was having an argument with a couple of guys that oled's peak brightness can show 50-100 nits of peak brightness differences when measured by different review sites. I was told that i'm wrong and it is impossible for an oled to have a difference as much as 100 nits. Here is another proof this year, what vincent measured for a hdr 10% window compared to what rtings measured for the same spec shows a difference of about 150 nits! The unusually high panel variance on these oleds, coupled with secondary factors like meter profiling, targeted whitepoint etcetera, can lend a difference of 100 nits in measurements when done by different review sites/calibrators. We are continuing to see evidence of this every year and this year is no different.

And btw, compared to vincent's own measurements of the c8, he measured the c9 a little less than the c8.
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post #2494 of 10271 Old 05-25-2019, 02:01 PM
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Force USB firmware downgrade

I updated our C9 to firmware v03.60.02 and it broke the eARC with the Yamaha RX-A3080.

How can I force the C9 to downgrade the firmware back to v03.50.31 via the USB?

Thanks
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post #2495 of 10271 Old 05-25-2019, 02:14 PM
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Vincent is measuring in British Standard nits, not to be confused with American nits or EU Metric nits.

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post #2496 of 10271 Old 05-25-2019, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dhackney View Post
I updated our C9 to firmware v03.60.02 and it broke the eARC with the Yamaha RX-A3080.



How can I force the C9 to downgrade the firmware back to v03.50.31 via the USB?



Thanks
I had an issue like this prior to and after I updated with my Denon AVR. I had to reset the TV to get eARC to function properly again.

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post #2497 of 10271 Old 05-25-2019, 02:34 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Baff View Post
Vincent is measuring in British Standard nits, not to be confused with American nits or EU Metric nits.
What?? Would you provide proof of this?
Nits or candelas per square meter is an SI unit (international system of units). The meters you get in britain are no different than what you get elsewhere.
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post #2498 of 10271 Old 05-25-2019, 02:45 PM
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post #2499 of 10271 Old 05-25-2019, 04:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
It also is supposed to have enforced lip sync correction for most sound formats that would be used for HD audio, whereas today, going through an AVR or sound bar you might have to adjust the audio offset by as much as 15-25ms to get audio and video in sync. This should be a non-issue with most sound formats in an EARC set up.
As much as 15-25ms? I still have an issue with my B7 going through an AVR that needs 210ms adjustment to watch a 4k blu ray.

Anyways, I just watched the review of the C9. I haven't been keeping up with the news, but I was greatly interested by the talk about the game mode stuff. So with the C9 I can just keep the set in technicolor, hit the switch for low latency mode, and keep the picture? That would be awesome. Aside form the dim game mode my wife really hates having to worry about switching the picture modes when she want to watch something since I leave it on game mode all the time. That alone might make it worth looking at selling my set and getting this one down the road.

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post #2500 of 10271 Old 05-25-2019, 04:52 PM
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Had a small issue with Judder last night while watching Aquaman streamed in Dolby Vision from a 4K AppleTV via purchased movies. There's one scene about midway through the film where there is slow panning and movement in a market square (the scene starts with a wide motion view of the little town from the ocean and ends up in the market square). It is most prevalent on a character wearing a white shirt and secondly on a small chalkboard advertisement. It is also there for the main actors in the film in this scene. I noticed that Real Cinema was enabled--according to RTINGS, this should take care of the judder, but it didn't. I then went to TruMotion and set it to smooth--instant Soap Opera effect (which to me isn't nearly as bad as it is on an HD TV--it just looks a bit fake). Then I selected User in the TruMotion settings. After six tries where I raised the De-Judder slider by one each time, then tested, the Judder was gone and I had no soap opera effect. All-in-all, it worked as advertised. Just thought I'd put this out there.


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I own an LG 65" C9. I'm thrilled with it.
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post #2501 of 10271 Old 05-25-2019, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc Vu View Post
I sit extremely close to the tv, less than 1m. I like to see all the close-up details in the game. And I’m near-sighted so yeah. If you sit further away probably 4k is not that discernible from 1440p. 77” is too big for 1440p nonetheless.
wow that is close. I am sure you can see every flaw from that distance.
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post #2502 of 10271 Old 05-25-2019, 05:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Omni009 View Post
As much as 15-25ms? I still have an issue with my B7 going through an AVR that needs 210ms adjustment to watch a 4k blu ray.

Anyways, I just watched the review of the C9. I haven't been keeping up with the news, but I was greatly interested by the talk about the game mode stuff. So with the C9 I can just keep the set in technicolor, hit the switch for low latency mode, and keep the picture? That would be awesome. Aside form the dim game mode my wife really hates having to worry about switching the picture modes when she want to watch something since I leave it on game mode all the time. That alone might make it worth looking at selling my set and getting this one down the road.


There’s nothing dim regarding gaming on the C9. I’m not sure if the 13ms would still register outside game mode even if all the processing is off but theoretically it should work. I’ll have to test it.


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post #2503 of 10271 Old 05-25-2019, 06:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Cleveland Plasma View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Duc Vu View Post
I sit extremely close to the tv, less than 1m. I like to see all the close-up details in the game. And I’m near-sighted so yeah. If you sit further away probably 4k is not that discernible from 1440p. 77” is too big for 1440p nonetheless.
wow that is close. I am sure you can see every flaw from that distance.
It’s also one of the main reasons I can’t use lcd tvs. From that distance, the bad viewing angle of va panel makes the picture looks washed out and blooming a lot more obvious at the sides and bottom.
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post #2504 of 10271 Old 05-25-2019, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
Spoiler Alert, Vincent have the C9 best in class award. It’s interesting that he advises keeping dynamic tone mapping off. Plus, manual calibration is better? On the Sony A9F he preferred the dynamic HDR mode.


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HDR Gaming is a little too dim for my tastes with tone dynamic mapping off. I do notice some scenes seem washed out but I guess we can’t have an accurate AND bright picture....

BTW, is there a way for me to do some basic calibration without special tools? I know there some test patterns on YouTube. Any suggestions?

Last edited by TechNerd666; 05-25-2019 at 06:26 PM.
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post #2505 of 10271 Old 05-25-2019, 06:29 PM
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2019 C9–E9 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk)

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Originally Posted by TechNerd666 View Post
HDR Gaming is a little too dim for my tastes with tone dynamic mapping off. I do notice some scenes seem washed out but I guess we can’t have an accurate AND bright picture....

BTW, is there a way for me to do some basic calibration without special tools? I know there some test patterns on YouTube. Any suggestions?




With current state of gaming scene, “accurate picture” and “HDR gaming” do not exist in the same sentence.
Use whatever mode your eyes are pleased for gaming.
Heck, I don’t even bother with D65 color temp when gaming.
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post #2506 of 10271 Old 05-25-2019, 06:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Cordy View Post
I had to reset the TV to get eARC to function properly again.
Thanks Cordy, that fixed it for me too.

Sure wish there was a way to backup and restore the settings on the C9 for things like this...
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post #2507 of 10271 Old 05-25-2019, 06:37 PM
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2019 C9–E9 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk)

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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
Spoiler Alert, Vincent have the C9 best in class award. It’s interesting that he advises keeping dynamic tone mapping off. Plus, manual calibration is better? On the Sony A9F he preferred the dynamic HDR mode.


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I know Vincent’s review is highly respected. And I respect his opinions in lots of cases. However, don’t just take his word for it. He has said some nonsense in the past, off the top of my head, regarding pixel refresher and HDR10 vs. DV without thorough understanding of technology behind it.
His words are not Bible.

On the DTM, it was jointly developed by LG and technicolor.
I’m sure technicolor knows what should be done when handling static metadata.

Last edited by EC1602; 05-25-2019 at 06:43 PM.
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post #2508 of 10271 Old 05-25-2019, 07:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by EC1602 View Post
I know Vincent’s review is highly respected. And I respect his opinions in lots of cases. However, don’t just take his word for it. He has said some nonsense in the past, off the top of my head, regarding pixel refresher and HDR10 vs. DV without thorough understanding of technology behind it.
His words are not Bible.

On the DTM, it was jointly developed by LG and technicolor.
I’m sure technicolor knows what should be done when handling static metadata.


Can the DTM be pro calibrated to follow the EOTF curve?

CNET’s review touched on DTM:

“The difference might be attributable to improvements LG made to its dynamic tone-mapping feature for 2019. The system, enabled by default in Cinema and Expert modes, analyses HDR video frame by frame and generates a new tone map curve. The improvement, according to LG, is wider signal range detection. On all of the LG OLED sets it improved HDR image quality to my eye (while delivering an accurate EOTF), bringing up details and preventing the image from looking too dark.”


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post #2509 of 10271 Old 05-25-2019, 08:18 PM - Thread Starter
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2019 C9–E9 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk)

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Originally Posted by icic2018 View Post
@helvetica bold



Gents, your comments please.


If you’re doing a decent amount of gaming and want to future proof for next gen game systems go for the C9. Are HDMI 2.1 features important to you? If so get the C9.
If you plan to just watch movies and TV save some money and get the C8. However the C9 does have puncher HDR and a bit better processing.
Hope this helps.



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post #2510 of 10271 Old 05-25-2019, 08:23 PM
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
If you’re doing a decent amount of gaming and want to future proof for next gen game systems go for the C9.
If you plan to just watch movies and TV save some money and get the C8. However the C9 does have puncher HDR and a bit better processing.
Hope this helps.



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thanks dear for your reply, honestly planning for watch movies 4K hdr & Dolby Vision. I'm not gamer just once I have free time I'd seat on my lazyboy chair to watch some lovely 4k hdr or DV movies

but what bout E8? also, is C9 panels still has an issue blotchy/uniformity like C8? please see the attached above.

THANKS BRO

Last edited by icic2018; 05-25-2019 at 08:27 PM.
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post #2511 of 10271 Old 05-25-2019, 08:27 PM
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Question sooo, 65" away from a 4K 65" panel ?

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Originally Posted by ShePearl View Post
There's a real case of diminishing returns here. A person with 20/20 vision can see about 80 pixels per degree of their field of vision.
More pixels means you won't be able to see all the detail, fewer pixels and the pixels themselves become visible.

In order to hit the sweet spot of 80 PPD, there's a direct correlation between screen size, screen resolution, and viewing distance. It works out pretty nicely for 16:9 displays:
For 1080p, the ideal viewing distance is twice the diagonal screen size, and for 4K it's equal to the diagonal screen size.

Twice the resolution means you need to double the screen size or halve the viewing distance to see all the detail. And of course it goes even further with 8K, the ideal viewing distance is half the diagonal screen size. The screen pretty much takes up your entire field of vision when you're close enough to see all the detail. Achieving that in a home setting basically requires an entire wall to be the TV.
So you are saying that for 4K, you should sit 65" away from a 65" 4K unit....?
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post #2512 of 10271 Old 05-25-2019, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
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2019 C9–E9 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk)

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Originally Posted by icic2018 View Post
thanks dear for your reply, honestly planning for watch movies 4K hdr & Dolby Vision. I'm not gamer just once I have free time I'd seat on my lazyboy chair to watch some lovely 4k hdr or DV movies



but what bout E8?



THANKS BRO


C8 and E8 are only cosmetically different if I’m not mistaken (same processing etc). Which one do you prefer? If you like the E8 (floating glass look) and have some extra cash to burn go for the E8.

FYI after 200 hours on my C9 it’s very uniform.
Look if you’re a real AV enthusiast and have the budget get the C9.
If all the latest bells and whistles aren’t that important to you get one of the 2018 models.


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Last edited by helvetica bold; 05-25-2019 at 08:31 PM.
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post #2513 of 10271 Old 05-25-2019, 08:30 PM
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
C8 and E8 are only cosmetically different if I’m not mistaken (same processing etc). Which one do you prefer? If you like the E8 (floating glass look) and have some extra cash to burn go for the E8.


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"have some extra cash to burn go for the E8."

of course not but as you owner C9, Does C9 panels still has an issue blotchy/uniformity like C8? please see the attached .
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post #2514 of 10271 Old 05-25-2019, 08:33 PM - Thread Starter
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2019 C9–E9 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk)

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Originally Posted by icic2018 View Post
"have some extra cash to burn go for the E8."



of course not but as you owner C9, Does C9 panels still has an issue blotchy/uniformity like C8? please see the attached .

That panel looks hideous and my C9 looks nothing like that! My C9 is very uniform.

Also see my edited response above!


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post #2515 of 10271 Old 05-25-2019, 08:34 PM
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
See my edited response above!


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got it, thanks a lot
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post #2516 of 10271 Old 05-25-2019, 09:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WOLVERNOLE View Post
So you are saying that for 4K, you should sit 65" away from a 65" 4K unit....?
For use as a monitor, sure, why not?

As a tv, I sit about 80" from mine.

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post #2517 of 10271 Old 05-25-2019, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tomcup View Post
Here you go!

First two pictures, my 77C9 - then rtings 65C9 and then a comparison screenshot of the C8 and C7 pics from Rtings - my pictures are the 3 on the left. The Filenames of the C series model are listed on the top left of the rtings photos.
Appears to me to certainly be using the same newer panel as the lower size model. It does not look similar to the C8 or C7.

Big Win!

As a note, I am digitally zooming in to the original photos, so I don't think I can get as much detail as the rtings review, but the shapes still look most like the C9 they pictured.
Thanks for putting this one to bed, not sure where the rumor originated that the 77 was still using a 2017 panel but looks quashed now.
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post #2518 of 10271 Old 05-26-2019, 02:02 AM
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Originally Posted by aflscott View Post
After six tries where I raised the De-Judder slider by one each time, then tested, the Judder was gone and I had no soap opera effect. All-in-all, it worked as advertised. Just thought I'd put this out there.
Scott
Which TM settings are you using now?
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post #2519 of 10271 Old 05-26-2019, 02:28 AM
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Originally Posted by mariniam View Post
Have a strange issue with my 65C9.

Its connected to my Denon av receiver via ARC and when I choose optical out on the C9 it switches on my receiver automatically and then goes to ARC sound mode on its own. Has anyone noticed this? It's a pain because on optical output I have my wireless Siberia 840 headphones connected, so everytime I choose optical on the C9 my Denon switches on automatically and I have to get up and switch it off. Lazy me :-)

Never had this with my 65B7.

Could someone pls test and see if they get the same behaviour?
It might be from your Denon receiver.
Go to Setup - Video - HDMI Setup - there you have the "TV Audio Switching" setting that is ON by default. Set to OFF and test again your scenario.
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post #2520 of 10271 Old 05-26-2019, 05:11 AM
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Got my C9 Friday and swapped it out with the same connections I had with my C7. Only HDMI connection is going to my Denon 3300 receiver.


The C9 loses HDMI signal, especially when switching between input sources. This morning the only way I could get anything to show up on the HDMI ports (Swapped cable between HDMI1 and HDMI2) was to turn off, unplug the power to the C9, then reconnect.

I do have certified HDMI 2.0b cables and have had no issues with my setup and the C7.

I did a Google search and found this has been an issue with LG tvs in the past.

Am I missing something in my setup?

Thanks.
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