2019 C9–E9 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 88 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2611 of 9228 Old 05-28-2019, 08:55 AM
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We have the 77" on display at the store and I don't see any difference between it and the 65 right next to it.

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post #2612 of 9228 Old 05-28-2019, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
Their reviews are interesting, quirky and weird. So bizarre that the first 1/2 of the review goes on and on about WebOS. Still had some pretty good information.
Be aware that FlatpanelsHD is based in Europe and Europeans do put more value on style, functionality, ergonomy, user experience, better features vs many features. Hence, the style of the review is different than those that are US based.
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post #2613 of 9228 Old 05-28-2019, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by Cam1977 View Post
^congrats on your 77! Their is a dedicated cal thread for the 2019 models in the Display Calibration section.
Thanks for letting me know!

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post #2614 of 9228 Old 05-28-2019, 09:18 AM
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Did anyone get a new firmware update on the 65 C9? Cinema with Dolbyvision has changed for the worse on mine. Severely dark. I now have to go to Cinema Home and Medium temp to get the same picture. HDR10 temp has changed too and now must use Medium too but Cinema is ok and not as dark as Cinema in DV.

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post #2615 of 9228 Old 05-28-2019, 09:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Gara View Post
Could someone please help me out with some measurements? C9 65" Oled. What is the distance between the bottom of the stand and where the edge of the screen image begins.

My f8500 has just under 4". I'm thinking I'll need a couple black particle boards to elevate my c9 to make up the difference. So I may as well get them before the delivery.
About 1.5”
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post #2616 of 9228 Old 05-28-2019, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
We have the 77" on display at the store and I don't see any difference between it and the 65 right next to it.
Do any of the 77" have the audible buzz that plagued a majority of the 77" C8s during low light scenes? We had one owner in this thread complain about his buzzing. Wondering if it's widespread like last year.

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post #2617 of 9228 Old 05-28-2019, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EMINENT1 View Post
Did anyone get a new firmware update on the 65 C9? Cinema with Dolbyvision has changed for the worse on mine. Severely dark. I now have to go to Cinema Home and Medium temp to get the same picture. HDR10 temp has changed too and now must use Medium too but Cinema is ok and not as dark as Cinema in DV.

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Wow, if your observations become widespread, it would be somewhat reminiscent of the controversial C8 update I referenced in my prior post.

I did the update but haven’t checked it out yet. I’m now worried.

I’m curious if John has done the update at VE and if so what he’s seen.
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post #2618 of 9228 Old 05-28-2019, 10:24 AM
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Originally Posted by stl8k View Post
Hey @Tomcup , yeoman's work capturing these. Much appreciated!

From my US holiday weekend quick glance, what I see is that the panel has a different pixel structure from the other 2 panel sizes for 2019, but it's not the same pixel structure as the 2018 77". The white pixel has changed shape from 2018-2019.

Edit:So, we effectively have 3 different pixel structures ostensibly optimized for each class of panel size.
@bombyx is the authority on this and has been tracking the pixel structure mainly for pixel size. I'll wait for his final verdict.

Thanks again!

Well, it is true that 77C9 and 65C9 have a very similar sub pixels structure (in area , not in shape ) : ( all numbers +/- 0.5% )



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post #2619 of 9228 Old 05-28-2019, 10:59 AM
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On VRR...

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Originally Posted by olqxqipz View Post
up to 120 Hz is great. Now the question is whether it has any low framerate compensation if it drops below 40 Hz
According to AMD's list of 693 freesync monitors, every single monitor with a wide enough refresh rate range supports LFC. There are 419 monitors with "LFC: No" on AMD's list. They all have a max refresh rate less than 2x their minimum refresh rate. All of the e.g. 30-75hz monitors work along with every single monitor above 75hz.

I can't post links but you can see for yourself on amd. com/en/products/freesync-monitors

I'd say it's a safe bet LFC will work in a 40-120hz VRR implementation. Of course we can't say for sure about the C9's implementation, or if there are other issues.
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post #2620 of 9228 Old 05-28-2019, 11:02 AM
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Be prepared to be disappointed

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Originally Posted by Duc Vu View Post
After reading all these reviews, maybe I’ll skip the c9 and wait for the c10. There maybe sth truly special next year. A 48” oled that can hit 1000 nits and lower abl.
Looking at all 3 big name manufacturers (LG, Sony and Samsung), all 2019 models have been incremental improvements at best to their flagship models. Why? When you're at 90% of possible performance for a given technology, acquiring the last 10% is expensive and not noticeable. For example: Samsung Q90R's biggest improvement over last year? Better viewing angle, but now peak brightness has dropped. C9 has improved its processing, but barely noticeable, and as for HDMI 2.1, this has ZERO impact on movie watchers and negligible impact on gamers until 2.1 devices are out (looks like 18 months at earliest for next generation consoles). Sony A9G has improved its image processing, but it was already excellent to begin with - we're talking gilding the lily here.

The biggest improvements for 4K OLED would probably panel brightness, but at what cost? Burn-in? Maybe this is why LG did not increase brightness.
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post #2621 of 9228 Old 05-28-2019, 11:17 AM
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Update on my somewhat DOA 77C9, (will stay on for about 5-10 minutes, then lock, screen goes dark, standby light flash 3 times, then off)

I've called LG and they will send a technician out for an assessment. Should I have this particular set repaired, or just ask the vendor to arrange for a new TV to be shipped across the country again?
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post #2622 of 9228 Old 05-28-2019, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by Dustin_Moore View Post
Update on my somewhat DOA 77C9, (will stay on for about 5-10 minutes, then lock, screen goes dark, standby light flash 3 times, then off)

I've called LG and they will send a technician out for an assessment. Should I have this particular set repaired, or just ask the vendor to arrange for a new TV to be shipped across the country again?
Definitely replace if that's an available option.
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post #2623 of 9228 Old 05-28-2019, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
Be aware that FlatpanelsHD is based in Europe and Europeans do put more value on style, functionality, ergonomy, user experience, better features vs many features. Hence, the style of the review is different than those that are US based.
Maybe it's a continental Europe kind of thing, I find Vincent Teoh's reviews to be right to the point on stuff like picture quality and those aspects having more weight than how nice the UI is and whether it's upgradable or not.

Man that really banged that drum but the weird thing is I'm pretty sure that despite what they said, Samsung/Sony/Panasonic don't exactly have a stellar history of upgrading the interfaces and OS version on their 2/3/4 year old TVs despite them running Android/Tinzen/etc. over WebOS.

In any case the sad reality is that nobody is going to buy one of these flagship TVs and realistically get a 5-7 year life out of the apps and OS built into the TV, inevitably you will have to turn to a game console or set top box (Roku, ATV, etc.) to keep abreast of apps.
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post #2624 of 9228 Old 05-28-2019, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by 8KCRT View Post
Looking at all 3 big name manufacturers (LG, Sony and Samsung), all 2019 models have been incremental improvements at best to their flagship models. Why? When you're at 90% of possible performance for a given technology, acquiring the last 10% is expensive and not noticeable. For example: Samsung Q90R's biggest improvement over last year? Better viewing angle, but now peak brightness has dropped. C9 has improved its processing, but barely noticeable, and as for HDMI 2.1, this has ZERO impact on movie watchers and negligible impact on gamers until 2.1 devices are out (looks like 18 months at earliest for next generation consoles). Sony A9G has improved its image processing, but it was already excellent to begin with - we're talking gilding the lily here.

The biggest improvements for 4K OLED would probably panel brightness, but at what cost? Burn-in? Maybe this is why LG did not increase brightness.
A lot of people also seem to assume that top emission is showing up in 2020 but I don't know that we have anything concrete from LG that this will happen.

People assume that top emission will mean brighter picture with reduced burn in but we don't really know.

People assume first year or two of top emission will mean fewer problems but we don't know that either.

There's a lot of guessing on this stuff and things can (and do) change at any time. High end of the consumer display business is a pretty bloodthirsty arena because that's where the bulk of the profits are. For all we know LG could shift to a push to 75" display tech if it's ready next year especially if they are able to crank those panels out with better margins and yield rates and only have to drop prices slightly.
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post #2625 of 9228 Old 05-28-2019, 12:12 PM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
...For all we know LG could shift to a push to 75" display tech if it's ready next year especially if they are able to crank those panels out with better margins and yield rates and only have to drop prices slightly.
YES, this. The premium for going from 65" to 77" is insane. 45" to 55" to 65" all make sense. I'll hold out for my 85" OLED until manufacturing catches up - until then, I'll just sit 2 feet closer to my 65".
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post #2626 of 9228 Old 05-28-2019, 01:42 PM
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Just checked the profiles while using DV & HDR10, and I can't say I see any difference. If there is a difference, it's far smaller than what I experienced after the firmware update on the C8.
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post #2627 of 9228 Old 05-28-2019, 02:40 PM
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Thanks for letting me know!
No prob...im interested as well as, a 77 is most definitely in my future!
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post #2628 of 9228 Old 05-28-2019, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
Maybe it's a continental Europe kind of thing, I find Vincent Teoh's reviews to be right to the point on stuff like picture quality and those aspects having more weight than how nice the UI is and whether it's upgradable or not.

Man that really banged that drum but the weird thing is I'm pretty sure that despite what they said, Samsung/Sony/Panasonic don't exactly have a stellar history of upgrading the interfaces and OS version on their 2/3/4 year old TVs despite them running Android/Tinzen/etc. over WebOS.

In any case the sad reality is that nobody is going to buy one of these flagship TVs and realistically get a 5-7 year life out of the apps and OS built into the TV, inevitably you will have to turn to a game console or set top box (Roku, ATV, etc.) to keep abreast of apps.
Actually I would claim Sony does have a history of providing updates. Z9D has had Android TV 6, 7 and now 8 on it complete with a big UI change in the latest version. The updates may not be fast, but they do seem to happen, unlike most companies. Samsung, LG and Panasonic are essentially running their own proprietary OS so the version number doesn't even have to mean much at all. LG seems to add 0.5 to the version number every year, and never updates the version once released (they do make fixes and feature changes, but the OS major version never changes once released on a given model year). No actual indication if WebOS 3.0 and 3.5 are actually different or just the same thing for different model years with an arbitrary version tag.

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post #2629 of 9228 Old 05-28-2019, 04:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
A lot of people also seem to assume that top emission is showing up in 2020 but I don't know that we have anything concrete from LG that this will happen.

People assume that top emission will mean brighter picture with reduced burn in but we don't really know.

People assume first year or two of top emission will mean fewer problems but we don't know that either.

There's a lot of guessing on this stuff and things can (and do) change at any time. High end of the consumer display business is a pretty bloodthirsty arena because that's where the bulk of the profits are. For all we know LG could shift to a push to 75" display tech if it's ready next year especially if they are able to crank those panels out with better margins and yield rates and only have to drop prices slightly.

Agreed!
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post #2630 of 9228 Old 05-28-2019, 06:32 PM
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Originally Posted by olqxqipz View Post
Vincent's review is up

Vincent used an EDID reader to reveal the VRR range is 40-120 Hz

Strange question but does anyone know if that is an app or something that is displaying on the TV during Vincent's review? The framed artwork and pictures. I would be interested to find something like that in high quality any clue where I could find it?
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post #2631 of 9228 Old 05-28-2019, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Jbran23 View Post
Strange question but does anyone know if that is an app or something that is displaying on the TV during Vincent's review? The framed artwork and pictures. I would be interested to find something like that in high quality any clue where I could find it?
That is a built in app on the tv.

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post #2632 of 9228 Old 05-28-2019, 07:14 PM
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That is a built in app on the tv.

[/QUOTE]

Thanks! Is this new to this years model? C6 owner here so not sure when they may have added this type of screensaver. Much cooler than the "fireworks" on mine.
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post #2633 of 9228 Old 05-28-2019, 07:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Ruppgu View Post
Do any of the 77" have the audible buzz that plagued a majority of the 77" C8s during low light scenes? We had one owner in this thread complain about his buzzing. Wondering if it's widespread like last year.
Even in the 77C8PUA the buzz was not very common. I have not seen once single complaint on the 77C9PUA as of yet.
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post #2634 of 9228 Old 05-28-2019, 10:22 PM - Thread Starter
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I disabled DTM while gaming and I might actually prefer it off. DTM seems to brighten everything reducing the HDR pop perhaps. At lease during my session. I still have to test DTM further but I was impressed with just the regular HDR performance on the C9.

I assume most owners have it enabled?


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post #2635 of 9228 Old 05-29-2019, 12:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
Maybe it's a continental Europe kind of thing, I find Vincent Teoh's reviews to be right to the point on stuff like picture quality and those aspects having more weight than how nice the UI is and whether it's upgradable or not.
Vincent is a one-man show and it is a calibrator, so of course, is more inclined on picture quality than anything...
FlatpanelsHD is a team, with various interests, on many domains.

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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
Man that really banged that drum but the weird thing is I'm pretty sure that despite what they said, Samsung/Sony/Panasonic don't exactly have a stellar history of upgrading the interfaces and OS version on their 2/3/4 year old TVs despite them running Android/Tinzen/etc. over WebOS.
True.

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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
In any case the sad reality is that nobody is going to buy one of these flagship TVs and realistically get a 5-7 year life out of the apps and OS built into the TV, inevitably you will have to turn to a game console or set top box (Roku, ATV, etc.) to keep abreast of apps.
True again.
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post #2636 of 9228 Old 05-29-2019, 01:36 AM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
A lot of people also seem to assume that top emission is showing up in 2020 but I don't know that we have anything concrete from LG that this will happen.

People assume that top emission will mean brighter picture with reduced burn in but we don't really know.

People assume first year or two of top emission will mean fewer problems but we don't know that either.

There's a lot of guessing on this stuff and things can (and do) change at any time. High end of the consumer display business is a pretty bloodthirsty arena because that's where the bulk of the profits are. For all we know LG could shift to a push to 75" display tech if it's ready next year especially if they are able to crank those panels out with better margins and yield rates and only have to drop prices slightly.
+10000

I remember how 2+ years ago, people were saying that 2018 is the "tick" year for LG and the 8 series from the 7 series would be the big improvement. Come 2018? Same old sap story that people try and delude themselves that 2019 would be the year when they found out the 8 series isn't as big of an improvement that people thought it would be.

Remember how in 2018 people were also saying that there's no way HDMI 2.1 will be on the 9 series? Here we are with the 9 series and there's HDMI 2.1. Now the same old cycle starts where people assume that top emission panels are coming in 2020 for sure.


What people don't realize is that in reality, most of you on the thread are consumers and none of you work in LGD. Your guess is as good as mine and my guess is as good as an assumption.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
I disabled DTM while gaming and I might actually prefer it off. DTM seems to brighten everything reducing the HDR pop perhaps. At lease during my session. I still have to test DTM further but I was impressed with just the regular HDR performance on the C9.

I assume most owners have it enabled?


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In Vincent’s C9 YouTube review he suggests toggling it off. The best DTM currently are from Sony’s X1 Ultimate chip and the Samsung Q90R. Panasonic also excellent but not available in US
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
I disabled DTM while gaming and I might actually prefer it off. DTM seems to brighten everything reducing the HDR pop perhaps. At lease during my session. I still have to test DTM further but I was impressed with just the regular HDR performance on the C9.

I assume most owners have it enabled?


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I have dynamic tone mapping disabled, especially for gaming.
It does perform pretty well on videos, but I turned it off since I'll calibrate eventually and will have it off once each tone mapping curve is calibrated. That way I'll be more used to it off to compare too. I certainly don't find HDR10 disappointing with it off.
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2019 C9–E9 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk)

What do you guys have "Peak Brightness" (under Expert Controls) set at?
For SDR, it's irrelevant, I guess.

For HDR10 and Dolby Vision in light controlled (pitch black) viewing condition, what do you guys have it at?

For HDR Gaming, I see it locked at High.

Last edited by EC1602; 05-29-2019 at 05:35 AM.
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post #2640 of 9228 Old 05-29-2019, 06:27 AM
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Hi - I've had the 65" C9 for a week now - trying out various settings. Call me impressed big upgrade especially with HDR content (be it 4K Blu, Netflix or Amazon) over my Samsung F8500 plasma that I had for 6 years. But I'm wondering whether anybody has tried the AI Brightness feature. LG are promoting this functionality quite heavily. But I noticed it is only available for HDR modes, the option is not there for SDR. I know the US is slightly ahead of firmware than the UK - so not sure if it will arrive for SDR as well. But for now I've left on for HDR modes and it seems to be doing no harm
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