2019 C9–E9 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk) - Page 90 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #2671 of 8055 Old 05-29-2019, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by bekindrewind View Post
Sounds like a handshake issue. Both sources must have eARC. The LG lists it as having it. I don't believe the Denon X3400H has eARC, just ARC.
Could be a handshake problem. I'm not sure how to deal with that, beyond device resets and swapping-out cables -- both done without change.

The C9 has eARC. In October, 2018, many of the 2017 and 2018 Denon AVRs had a firmware update that included eARC, ALLM, and Apple AirPlay2. My X3400H was one of them. The LG's "Device Connector" utility recognizes the Denon's eARC port, so I know that it's activ

Problem Solved: I had a bad HDMI cable.

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post #2672 of 8055 Old 05-29-2019, 08:50 PM
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Originally Posted by lsorensen View Post
Only one brand has HDMI 2.1 this year. The tests for certifying HDMI 2.1 are not done yet. I wouldn't say anyone not having HDMI 2.1 this year is shrugging it off.
I agree, I wonder if this early released HDMI 2.1 will be compliant with future products. I bet that is why no one else is worried. In the end though if this would be correct I would rather have LG version of HDMI 2.1 them not
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post #2673 of 8055 Old 05-29-2019, 10:45 PM
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Originally Posted by robert9674 View Post
They finalized hdmi 2.1 tests late last year. The new video cards coming next month will have hdmi 2.1
No video cards are coming next month with HDMI 2.1!
If you are waiting for the new AMD Navi cards with HDMI 2.1 you'll be disappointed, Navi has no support for HDMI 2.1, it was too late for Navi to implement HDMI 2.1, maybe the next generation...



Quote:
Originally Posted by bekindrewind View Post
Sounds like a handshake issue. Both sources must have eARC. The LG lists it as having it. I don't believe the Denon X3400H has eARC, just ARC.
Denon X3400H has implemented eARC by a firmware update!
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post #2674 of 8055 Old 05-29-2019, 10:55 PM
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I have received a response from John Archer (about the LG 2019 OLED TV limitation regarding HDMI-eARC pass-through - LG did not enable the AudioEDID for LPCM 8 channels, just the standard LPCM 2 channels):

Quote:
Hello! Just a quick note to say that I have passed your comments on to LG, and asked for them to give me a response. I'll keep you posted on what they say.
cc @UdoG
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post #2675 of 8055 Old 05-30-2019, 12:08 AM
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Could anyone with a 77C9 tell me the distance between the bottom vesa bolt and the bottom of the tv (not including the stand).

I wanna try and mount my current 65 in the right place so when I upgrade this year to 77”, I can just swap the mounting bracket and hang the new tv and still have the right gap under the display for my center channel.

Basically I don’t wanna have to move the mount and patch holes and stuff.

Not urgent. Just if you have a chance.
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post #2676 of 8055 Old 05-30-2019, 01:42 AM
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Anyway, IMHO, LG could make an effort to support Freesync over HDMI, until the first HDMI 2.1 graphics cards with VRR will be released (next year I suppose).
It would be a game changing feature for current TVs.
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post #2677 of 8055 Old 05-30-2019, 01:46 AM
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Originally Posted by magic_carpet View Post
Anyway, IMHO, LG could make an effort to support Freesync over HDMI, until the first HDMI 2.1 graphics cards with VRR will be released (next year I suppose).
It would be a game changing feature for current TVs.

Samsung 2018 Q9FN (released a year ago) supports both Freesync and VRR. It's a nice feature to have but nothing game changing, IMO.
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post #2678 of 8055 Old 05-30-2019, 01:48 AM
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Originally Posted by jgonzo33 View Post
LG told me this via email:
OLED77C9AUB in terms of W x H x D (inches) is 46.8 x 2 x 10.6.

Tomcup on page 75 (#2224) has pictures showing 30” width
Thanks, this is exactly what I needed. It will fit on my stand perfectly:

https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post58064548

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post #2679 of 8055 Old 05-30-2019, 06:29 AM
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Originally Posted by PittyH View Post
From the LG main website:
W9 ~ B9, SM94 ~ SM90: HDMI ports support HDCP 2.3 and 120fps @ 2160p

sounds compliant to me.
HDMI 2.1 consists of numerous features, supported resolutions and framerates, color depths, etc. With no real HDMI 2.1 sources available there's simply no way for anyone to know that a product is "compliant".

Pointing to a single specification and saying "compliant" won't cut it here. It's pretty well assured that no vendor in 2019 is going to have a product that 100% perfectly conforms to the entire HDMI 2.1 feature set. In the case of the C9, even if the ports are capable of 48gbps bandwidth it is unlikely the TV would accept a signal above the 4K resolution even though that is also part of the HDMI 2.1 specification.

We also have reports of "teething issues" with eARC not fully working and LG will have to work that problem and identify a fix for it.

When the first video test sets that generate HDMI 2.1 tests come out late this year or early next we will get a better idea of how compliant LG is with the C9 product.
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post #2680 of 8055 Old 05-30-2019, 07:03 AM
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Hello, I am ready to buy the c9 as I coming from an old plasma tv.
My old tv still shows great and I was always careful with it, but recently I discovered it does have a burned in logo, from cartoon network (kids) CN, I was surprise and I still can't believe it


So my question is, does burn in also happen because of age?



I know oled has protection for burn in, but my plasma also have some and I was also super careful about it and still happened!!!!



I am a bit hesitant now to get the Oled, because I was always super careful with my old tv and I always run slider, changed contents even after a single hour of kids watching anything and still a burn in occurred?


The only thing I can think of , is that it happened because the tv is now old?


Anyways, I am sorry for the long non technical post. But I thought this is the best place to get some answers before purchasing the tv. thanks in advance!
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post #2681 of 8055 Old 05-30-2019, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Maleni View Post
Hello, I am ready to buy the c9 as I coming from an old plasma tv.
My old tv still shows great and I was always careful with it, but recently I discovered it does have a burned in logo, from cartoon network (kids) CN, I was surprise and I still can't believe it


So my question is, does burn in also happen because of age?



I know oled has protection for burn in, but my plasma also have some and I was also super careful about it and still happened!!!!



I am a bit hesitant now to get the Oled, because I was always super careful with my old tv and I always run slider, changed contents even after a single hour of kids watching anything and still a burn in occurred?


The only thing I can think of , is that it happened because the tv is now old?


Anyways, I am sorry for the long non technical post. But I thought this is the best place to get some answers before purchasing the tv. thanks in advance!
I am also coming from a plasma TV and I was also super cautious with varying content to avoid burn-in. My plasma has image retention sometimes for weeks or even months after playing console games on it but, as far as I know it has no "permanent" burn in.

The newest generation OLED sets have implemented a lot of protections for burn in, including things like automatic panel refresh that happens based on timers, automatic logo dimming (reduce brightness of a detected logo automatically), etc.

Bottom line though is that burn in can still happen if you play hundreds of hours of static content on the TV without ample time between that is playing other content.

So if your kids have cartoon network on for hours a day and that's something they do every day then I would either buy an extended warranty that covers burn in if you are concerned about it or buy an LED TV where you don't have to worry about this problem.
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post #2682 of 8055 Old 05-30-2019, 07:29 AM
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"automatic logo dimming (reduce brightness of a detected logo automatically"


I like the sound of that, because the thing is, I don't know how to express it better but

I am kind of a crazy person when it comes to electronics care and I was more than super careful with my old tv , doing exactly everything I read here long ago for protecting it and after so many years I see the burn in now, which shouldn't happen at all as I still doing the same thing to protect it since day 1.



btw cartoon network was never on for more than 1 hour each time and not everyday, which is why I am so disappointed that still happening, as I never ever just turned the tv off after a show. I always run the slider for long time everyday (like I said I am crazy like that) lol. and always changed contents too.



So in my case, a burn in shouldn't have happened at all.

I still think it happened because the tv is now super old and maybe pixels degrading or something?


btw, yeah image retention is fine, but in my case I am sure is burn in as I have been trying all fixing ever created for few days , even running them for whole days and it's still there.


"led" eww never!!



Thanks for the reply! I am going to keep checking here all the time to learn more!!
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post #2683 of 8055 Old 05-30-2019, 07:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maleni View Post
"automatic logo dimming (reduce brightness of a detected logo automatically"


I like the sound of that, because the thing is, I don't know how to express it better but

I am kind of a crazy person when it comes to electronics care and I was more than super careful with my old tv , doing exactly everything I read here long ago for protecting it and after so many years I see the burn in now, which shouldn't happen at all as I still doing the same thing to protect it since day 1.



btw cartoon network was never on for more than 1 hour each time and not everyday, which is why I am so disappointed that still happening, as I never ever just turned the tv off after a show. I always run the slider for long time everyday (like I said I am crazy like that) lol. and always changed contents too.



So in my case, a burn in shouldn't have happened at all.

I still think it happened because the tv is now super old and maybe pixels degrading or something?


btw, yeah image retention is fine, but in my case I am sure is burn in as I have been trying all fixing ever created for few days , even running them for whole days and it's still there.


"led" eww never!!



Thanks for the reply! I am going to keep checking here all the time to learn more!!
I don't know that there's any proof that plasma sets get more susceptible to permanent image burn as they get older and I don't believe you indicated what model your set is or how old it is.

In any event, what happened with your plasma is really OT for this thread. The reality is that plasma sets can get burned and more easily than OLED.

Based on your described usage then you really shouldn't have an issue with OLED. LG made changes to panel technology in 2017 that substantially improved the resistance to burn in. In 2018 they made some additional changes that were introduced in all sets below 77" in size.

In 2019 they have made yet more changes and those changes now appear to be present in some form or other in all sizes for this year.

Between auto panel refresh, automatic logo dimming, etc, I don't really think you're going to have problems but nobody can know and of course if you keep the set for 10 years and somewhere along the line an image gets left up on the screen while you're on vacation for a week it's certainly possible you could burn the set.

For what it's worth Vincent Teoh and other reviewers have commented that they've done things like leave images paused on the TV for 24 hours and there is no image retention or burn.

If you want to learn more you'd need to read rtings burn in tests. They had image retention pretty quickly on their 2016 model OLEDs but the 2017s are proving far more resistant and the 2019s will be even better still.

https://www.rtings.com/tv/learn/real...d-burn-in-test

TLDR?

The 2017 C7 sets that rtings purchased have, with the exception of the sets that play CNN only, not experienced any permanent image burn at the 5,000 hour mark. Your 2019 C9 will be even more burn resistant than the 2017 C7 that rtings is testing currently.
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post #2684 of 8055 Old 05-30-2019, 07:43 AM
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Originally Posted by bekindrewind View Post
Sounds like a handshake issue. Both sources must have eARC. The LG lists it as having it. I don't believe the Denon X3400H has eARC, just ARC.
Denon says the X3400h is one of the models to get eARC with a firmware update.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by amnesia0287 View Post
Could anyone with a 77C9 tell me the distance between the bottom vesa bolt and the bottom of the tv (not including the stand).

I wanna try and mount my current 65 in the right place so when I upgrade this year to 77”, I can just swap the mounting bracket and hang the new tv and still have the right gap under the display for my center channel.

Basically I don’t wanna have to move the mount and patch holes and stuff.

Not urgent. Just if you have a chance.
Well https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57242516 has it for the 77C8 so it is probably the same or very close to it at least. I doubt LG has made a big change in that part of the design.

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post #2686 of 8055 Old 05-30-2019, 07:53 AM
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2019 C9–E9 Owner's Thread (No Price Talk)

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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
HDMI 2.1 consists of numerous features, supported resolutions and framerates, color depths, etc. With no real HDMI 2.1 sources available there's simply no way for anyone to know that a product is "compliant".
What color depth?? HDMI 2.1 does not specify any color depth. 2.1 spec was locked down last year and there are signal generator/tools available for internal compliancy testing. There aren't many new features 2.1 brings on the table. Only a handful of them.
The biggest difference is increased bandwidth.
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post #2687 of 8055 Old 05-30-2019, 07:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
There is no difference other than size...obviously the bigger the screen the further you should sit back to make sure you're at the appropriate seating distance for 77" screen. I don't know where you heard this but all 2019 LG OLEDs would have the same picture quality, there are no differences other than the B series which has an old chipset.
Ok, thanks for the info. I was wrong then.
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post #2688 of 8055 Old 05-30-2019, 08:04 AM
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Originally Posted by EC1602 View Post
What color depth?? HDMI 2.1 does not specify any color depth. 2.1 spec was locked down last year and there are signal generator/tools available for internal compliancy testing. There aren't many new features 2.1 brings on the table. Only a handful of them.
The biggest difference is increased bandwidth.
https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_1/index.aspx

Quote:
Q: What colorimetry is supported?
A: HDMI 2.1 Specification supports the latest color spaces including BT.2020 with 10, 12, and 16 bits per color component.
This is a big change from HDMI 2.0b, even if no current equipment supports anything over 12 bit color depth the standard allows for it the new specification is ready for it and it's possible that current generation panels will be able to downsample the deeper color data when it becomes available in future content.

So, not sure why you're arguing so hard on this.

As to feature support, the new features are;

Auto Low-Latency Mode (ALLM)
Variable Refresh Rate (VRR)
Quick Frame Transport (QFT)
Quick Media Switching (QMS)
Enhanced Audio Return Channel (EARC).

Whether this "handful" of features is important to you or not probably comes down to whether you are a gamer or whether you can imagine a point where these features become useful in other content. For example, everyone thinks of VRR as benefiting gamers but I can see a point where content could be mastered with different framerates for different parts of the movie/show. Go to a higher framerate for action sequences and slow it down to a 24-30 frame rate for a more cinematic look in other sections. Devices without the VRR feature would simply display the whole film at 24fps or 60fps, etc.

Certainly EARC offers the most bang for buck for casual viewers since it allows for HD audio without handshaking, offers lip sync support, etc.

Anyways you're entitled to your opinion even if it seems to be based more on feelings than facts.
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post #2689 of 8055 Old 05-30-2019, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maleni View Post
"automatic logo dimming (reduce brightness of a detected logo automatically"

I like the sound of that
The technical name for this is ASBL (Auto Static Brightness Limiting), if you want to do more research into it.

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post #2690 of 8055 Old 05-30-2019, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
https://www.hdmi.org/manufacturer/hdmi_2_1/index.aspx







This is a big change from HDMI 2.0b, even if no current equipment supports anything over 12 bit color depth the standard allows for it the new specification is ready for it and it's possible that current generation panels will be able to downsample the deeper color data when it becomes available in future content.



So, not sure why you're arguing so hard on this.



As to feature support, the new features are;



Auto Low-Latency Mode (ALLM)

Variable Refresh Rate (VRR)

Quick Frame Transport (QFT)

Quick Media Switching (QMS)

Enhanced Audio Return Channel (EARC).



Whether this "handful" of features is important to you or not probably comes down to whether you are a gamer or whether you can imagine a point where these features become useful in other content.



Certainly EARC offers the most bang for buck for casual viewers since it allows for HD audio without handshaking, offers lip sync support, etc.



Anyways you're entitled to your opinion even if it seems to be based more on feelings than facts.

I'm not sure why you think I'm arguing so hard in this. Lol. But BT.2020 color space and 10, 12 and 16-bit color depth are not defined by HDMI.

Among those "handful" 5 features (ALLM, VRR, QFT, QMS, EARC), ALLM and VRR have already been available in HDMI2.0b compliant display since 2018.
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post #2691 of 8055 Old 05-30-2019, 08:28 AM
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Originally Posted by EC1602 View Post
I'm not sure why you think I'm arguing so hard in this. Lol. But BT.2020 color space and 10, 12 and 16-bit color depth are not defined by HDMI.

Among those "handful" 5 features (ALLM, VRR, QFT, QMS, EARC), ALLM and VRR have already been available in HDMI2.0b compliant display since 2018.
eARC as well
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post #2692 of 8055 Old 05-30-2019, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
I have received a response from John Archer (about the LG 2019 OLED TV limitation regarding HDMI-eARC pass-through - LG did not enable the AudioEDID for LPCM 8 channels, just the standard LPCM 2 channels):



cc @UdoG
LG has also returned my inquiry about eARC and Atmos passthrough. That follows: "In order to ensure that we will be able to provide you with the most satisfactory response regarding this, please allow us to submit this to our Software Development Team for a thorough review to make them aware of this situation so that proper action can be done to correct this. The kind of inquiry that you have requires thorough assessment for us to determine how to resolve this matter."

I am very pleased that the response was so prompt, and so considerate of this issue.
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post #2693 of 8055 Old 05-30-2019, 09:26 AM
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Originally Posted by mhmercer View Post
LG has also returned my inquiry about eARC and Atmos passthrough. That follows: "In order to ensure that we will be able to provide you with the most satisfactory response regarding this, please allow us to submit this to our Software Development Team for a thorough review to make them aware of this situation so that proper action can be done to correct this. The kind of inquiry that you have requires thorough assessment for us to determine how to resolve this matter."

I am very pleased that the response was so prompt, and so considerate of this issue.
That's good. Better if/when they do something about it.

HDMI 2.1 is a key differentiator for LG for 2019 and it would look bad for them if the features aren't working properly.
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post #2694 of 8055 Old 05-30-2019, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
I am also coming from a plasma TV and I was also super cautious with varying content to avoid burn-in. My plasma has image retention sometimes for weeks or even months after playing console games on it but, as far as I know it has no "permanent" burn in.

The newest generation OLED sets have implemented a lot of protections for burn in, including things like automatic panel refresh that happens based on timers, automatic logo dimming (reduce brightness of a detected logo automatically), etc.

Bottom line though is that burn in can still happen if you play hundreds of hours of static content on the TV without ample time between that is playing other content.

So if your kids have cartoon network on for hours a day and that's something they do every day then I would either buy an extended warranty that covers burn in if you are concerned about it or buy an LED TV where you don't have to worry about this problem.
Also avoid news stations with static patterns for days on end. Burn-in is uneven wear and cumulative. For over 10 years (on Plasma and no on OLED), I have used Lumagen processors to mask 22% of the bottom of the screen when watching news. The latest HDFury Vertex and other process also provide a masking feature.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by TechNerd666 View Post
My thoughts exactly. Dynamic Tone Mapping makes the game look washed out at times.
Good dynamic tone-mapping should restore the PQ EOTF, not brighten beyond that.
LG has basically implemented the HDR version of S-Curved gamma.
People may like it, but I think rational heads are prevailing and this is now understood to be inaccurate, and therefore, to be avoided.


LG uses separate tone-curves based on the unreliable static metadata.
For my C7, I use an HDFury Vertex to override the static metadata to get a consistent tone-mapping.


One reason that I bought a C9 over the C8 was to use Calman adjust tone-mapping to track the PQ EOTF to at least 600 nits regardless of the disk authoring.
Two identical scenes should be not displayed at different average picture level based on the static metadata. There may be only 1 second of bright content or even no significant APL difference in the source material.
The titles could be simply produced using a higher nit master display.

Dynamic tone-mapping can display more detail in the bright-flashing scenes in Batman V Superman but they loose the visual impact of the flash.

Hopefully, the LG 10 series will include the ability adjust the tone-mapping in the user menu.

- Rich

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Last edited by RichB; 05-30-2019 at 05:33 PM.
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post #2696 of 8055 Old 05-30-2019, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
No video cards are coming next month with HDMI 2.1!
If you are waiting for the new AMD Navi cards with HDMI 2.1 you'll be disappointed, Navi has no support for HDMI 2.1, it was too late for Navi to implement HDMI 2.1, maybe the next generation...

I don't think this is confirmed, but I'm not sure it matters:


https://www.overclock3d.net/news/gpu...river_update/1


Of course, AMD hasn't released this driver update yet, so we don't know for sure. Hopefully between LG and AMD they will get things resolved.



Quote:
Originally Posted by EC1602 View Post
Samsung 2018 Q9FN (released a year ago) supports both Freesync and VRR. It's a nice feature to have but nothing game changing, IMO.

I couldn't disagree with this statement more. For PC gaming, VRR is a game-changer. It can be tough to hit 4K and steady 60 fps in modern games. Drop below 60 on a fixed-refresh display and you get tearing. Expanding the fps range even to, say, 48-60, means that you can have a brief drop in framerate and still have a tear-free experience. If the LG 2019 OLEDs had a 40-120Hz range, or ~20-120Hz with LFC, that would be better still. You'll still have some input latency if the framerate is too variable but at least you won't have tearing.


VRR also reduces input lag.

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post #2697 of 8055 Old 05-30-2019, 10:38 AM
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Came here to find a good vendor for the 77" since BB is now out of stock till June 21 and Crutchfield isn't offering white glove on it (seriously?!)


But now I see that Atmos via eARC doesn't work because they didn't program the the EDID correctly?! That's a dealbreaker for me since I need direct connection between Xbox One X and TV to get VRR working which means I can't get Atmos over e-ARC pass through to my receiver because of this bug? So I either have to wait for LG to fix this or wait for a receiver with HDMI 2.1 that can pass through e-ARC and VRR. Do I have this correct? Sigh.
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post #2698 of 8055 Old 05-30-2019, 10:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Flavius View Post
Came here to find a good vendor for the 77" since BB is now out of stock till June 21 and Crutchfield isn't offering white glove on it (seriously?!)


But now I see that Atmos via eARC doesn't work because they didn't program the the EDID correctly?! That's a dealbreaker for me since I need direct connection between Xbox One X and TV to get VRR working which means I can't get Atmos over e-ARC pass through to my receiver because of this bug? So I either have to wait for LG to fix this or wait for a receiver with HDMI 2.1 that can pass through e-ARC and VRR. Do I have this correct? Sigh.
No, you did not!
The "bug" is about 8 channels LPCM, not about TrueHD+Atmos or DTS-HD MA or DTS:X.
So cool off, C9 is a fine TV set and the missing 8 channels LPCM AudioEDID maybe will be resolved soon, it is very easy for LG to fix it because the bug is a minor one.
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post #2699 of 8055 Old 05-30-2019, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Flavius View Post
Came here to find a good vendor for the 77" since BB is now out of stock till June 21 and Crutchfield isn't offering white glove on it (seriously?!)


But now I see that Atmos via eARC doesn't work because they didn't program the the EDID correctly?! That's a dealbreaker for me since I need direct connection between Xbox One X and TV to get VRR working which means I can't get Atmos over e-ARC pass through to my receiver because of this bug? So I either have to wait for LG to fix this or wait for a receiver with HDMI 2.1 that can pass through e-ARC and VRR. Do I have this correct? Sigh.



I have my Xbox One X connected directly to my 77, and I am getting Atmos passed down to my x4550h over eARC. No issues at all.

I think someone on this thread said they were getting some audio lag on the Xbox using Atmos. I did have that issue at first, but I had not turned on eARC on the C9. Once I turned that on, all lag is gone.
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post #2700 of 8055 Old 05-30-2019, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EC1602 View Post
But BT.2020 color space and 10, 12 and 16-bit color depth are not defined by HDMI.
BT.2020 is defined in ITU-R BT.2020 but is referenced by the HDMI 2.0+ spec. The colour depths are defined in CTA-861 but the pixel encodings are in HDMI 1.4+. Which document the various pieces are defined is irrelevant. The point is the HDMI spec says they can be used.
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