Comparison thread LG vs sony vs panasonic oleds 2019 - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 185 Old 03-31-2019, 05:53 AM
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...just don't download a car.
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post #62 of 185 Old 03-31-2019, 05:58 AM
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The situation on PC is honestly not any better. Nvidia has like 90% market share in discrete GPUs and they don't support VRR over HDMI on any of their products. AMD will probably support VRR, but most people who want to play 4K games at high framerates are not buying AMD cards these days.

On the console side, maybe Sony will announce PS5 this year, and hopefully it will have VRR support and be capable of driving higher framerates. On the PC side we wait to see when Nvidia will support HDMI VRR or whether AMD's Navi will be an attractive product for enthusiasts. I don't expect either until late this year at the earliest. So on both console and PC fronts it's basically a waiting game for new source hardware.

It's a similar story for 4K HFR, as we wait for full bandwidth HDMI 2.1 ports to start showing up on source devices, unless someone comes out of nowhere and makes a DisplayPort 1.4 to HDMI 2.1 adapter.

The sad reality is that there is next to no benefit from 'true' HDMI 2.1 this year, except for some niche use cases among a small number of XB1X and AMD GPU owners. Features like eARC and ALLM may give benefits now, but they are available on HDMI 2.0 sets as well.
It takes time to realize the benefits, no doubt. But it’s still better to have some equipment than none as it’s always a chicken and egg situation when it comes to new tech.

Like you, I was really disappointed that nVidia skirted HDMI 2.1 with the RTX releases, especially with how they priced them. But don’t forget that Intel is getting into the space as well (although not for a while) and by then they’ll certainly have HDMI 2.1 where you’ll see some benefit and more of an addressable audience.
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post #63 of 185 Old 03-31-2019, 06:56 AM
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But who has the best motion handling?
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post #64 of 185 Old 03-31-2019, 07:15 AM
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Originally Posted by -Axle- View Post
It takes time to realize the benefits, no doubt. But it’s still better to have some equipment than none as it’s always a chicken and egg situation when it comes to new tech.

Like you, I was really disappointed that nVidia skirted HDMI 2.1 with the RTX releases, especially with how they priced them. But don’t forget that Intel is getting into the space as well (although not for a while) and by then they’ll certainly have HDMI 2.1 where you’ll see some benefit and more of an addressable audience.

PS5 and the discrete Intel GPU are rumored for late 2020 releases. If a person is not going to get significant use out of HDMI 2.1 until 2021, and they are the type of person who replaces their TV every 2-3 years, they might never get any use out of HDMI 2.1 on a 2019 TV. If you are someone who keeps their TV for > 5 years, then you may get some value out of buying an HDMI 2.1 model. But if money is the issue for upgrading infrequently you might also consider purchasing one of the much cheaper 2018 TVs, then selling it and buying a newer TV in a few years once HDMI 2.1 content becomes widely available.
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post #65 of 185 Old 04-01-2019, 05:42 AM
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But who has the best motion handling?
Vincent Teoh does LG Sony Panasonic OLEDs side by side comparisons in YouTube videos. He claims that Sony looks best with motion enhancements turned off. Panasonic has separate switches for motion smoothing (dejudder) and deblur (deblur) which Sony has not (and never had on its LCDs. I guess they put so much money into their motion interpolation stuff that they refuse to let consumers turn it off).
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post #66 of 185 Old 04-01-2019, 07:47 AM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
Vincent Teoh does LG Sony Panasonic OLEDs side by side comparisons in YouTube videos. He claims that Sony looks best with motion enhancements turned off. Panasonic has separate switches for motion smoothing (dejudder) and deblur (deblur) which Sony has not (and never had on its LCDs. I guess they put so much money into their motion interpolation stuff that they refuse to let consumers turn it off).
LG also has separate deblur and dejudder? What’s the difference between Panasonic vs. LG implementation of motion?
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post #67 of 185 Old 04-01-2019, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by New_to_4K View Post
LG also has separate deblur and dejudder? What’s the difference between Panasonic vs. LG implementation of motion?
LG and Samsung also have separation of deblur and motion smoothing. Panasonic seems to have microstutter issues appearing when there is moving image/ticker subtitles combo. Also seem to have more motion option variation. Other than that LG and Panasonic motion improvement effect will look similar. Check out Teohs EZ950 review.

https://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/tx55...1707194485.htm
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post #68 of 185 Old 04-04-2019, 04:54 AM
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As Much as I complain about LG and dislike them as a company I will most likely buy another OLED. Am going to wait until we get bottom emission panels or is it top emission panels, which ever we do not have now and true hdmi2.1. Correct me if I am wrong but legally can’t LG say that they have HDMI 2.1 if they can do a few of the HDMI 2.1 features but not all of them? How can they truly test 48gig speed if the hdmi chipset for avrs/processors are not even out or will be available until earliest June 2020? The 2016 Oleds still can’t do DV at 60Hz. I currently have a E6 but eventually want 77”s or larger.

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post #69 of 185 Old 04-04-2019, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave-T View Post
Correct me if I am wrong but legally can’t LG say that they have HDMI 2.1 if they can do a few of the HDMI 2.1 features but not all of them? How can they truly test 48gig speed if the hdmi chipset for avrs/processors are not even out or will be available until earliest June 2020?
No, they can't just say they support "HDMI 2.1" and that's it. They must list the features they support when referring to HDMI 2.1.

Why would they need a production chipset for a HDMI 2.1 source to test? That's what specialized test equipment is for. Something like this: https://www.quantumdata.com/980_hdmi_21_pa_vg.html
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post #70 of 185 Old 04-04-2019, 07:09 AM
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What i want to know more about is Panasonic OLED dull, accurate, natural colors which several reviewers have mentioned vs the competition.
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post #71 of 185 Old 04-04-2019, 08:37 AM
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Maybe this isn't the right thread to ask this but how do these new panels stack up against a 4K projector setup? What's the max screen size for these OLEDs.

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post #72 of 185 Old 04-04-2019, 08:51 AM
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Originally Posted by Dave-T View Post
As Much as I complain about LG and dislike them as a company I will most likely buy another OLED. Am going to wait until we get bottom emission panels or is it top emission panels, which ever we do not have now and true hdmi2.1. Correct me if I am wrong but legally can’t LG say that they have HDMI 2.1 if they can do a few of the HDMI 2.1 features but not all of them? How can they truly test 48gig speed if the hdmi chipset for avrs/processors are not even out or will be available until earliest June 2020? The 2016 Oleds still can’t do DV at 60Hz. I currently have a E6 but eventually want 77”s or larger.
LG has claimed to have full HDMI 2.1 so that would mean they have to have all the features. You can do a partial implantation but then you must list which features are there and LG isn't doing that. When questioned about it they have confirmed it is a 48Gbps HDMI interface with VRR, ALLM, QMS, eARC, etc. So they say it's there, so hopefully when tested eventually it will all work. Certainly eARC is working, and I think I have seen people say they tried VRR with the Xbox One X and it worked.

The DV 30Hz limitation on the 2016 is almost certainly a limitation of the dedicated DV chip used that just wasn't fast enough to do 60Hz 4k DV. Makes you wonder if it could be upgraded to work with the low latency profile at 60Hz since that should require less processing, but LG seems to have said they are not updating the 2016 DV support anymore, which also means it doesn't work with DV from the Xbox One X apparently.

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post #73 of 185 Old 04-04-2019, 08:55 AM
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Maybe this isn't the right thread to ask this but how do these new panels stack up against a 4K projector setup? What's the max screen size for these OLEDs.
4K screens come in 55", 65" and 77". Sometime this year an 8K 88" is supposed to come out.

Compared to a projector, the OLED has vastly better black levels, better contrast by far, and much higher peak brightness and hence much better HDR. The OLED does not have 3D support which a lot of projectors can still do (LG had the best 3D with their OLEDs in 2016 but dropped it after that). The Projector can of course be setup with a much bigger screen and potentially audio behind an acoustically transparent screen (although Sony's A9F (and probably A9G) has audio coming from the screen as an option for the center channel if you want to use that for perfect center channel placement)

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post #74 of 185 Old 04-04-2019, 09:31 AM
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Hi Len,

Thanks for the info. I was just wondering if it was time to change out my Sony VW95 projector(96" screen with a great pic but no 4k) for a big flat panel. I already have a Sony 60" which has a great pic but it's not OLED.

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post #75 of 185 Old 04-04-2019, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by avernar View Post
No, they can't just say they support "HDMI 2.1" and that's it. They must list the features they support when referring to HDMI 2.1.

Why would they need a production chipset for a HDMI 2.1 source to test? That's what specialized test equipment is for. Something like this: https://www.quantumdata.com/980_hdmi_21_pa_vg.html

Agreed; if the opposite were the case, Sony could claim HDMI 2.1 simply because it has implemented eARC support, but no other HDMI 2.1 features.
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post #76 of 185 Old 04-04-2019, 12:34 PM
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Hi Len,

Thanks for the info. I was just wondering if it was time to change out my Sony VW95 projector(96" screen with a great pic but no 4k) for a big flat panel. I already have a Sony 60" which has a great pic but it's not OLED.
Well some people around here insist size is more important than picture quality. If you think so, then no OLED will be an option. If you want picture quality I can't imagine any projector getting anywhere near what an OLED TV manages. You would have to give up 3D too of course if that is something you use on the projector. So I guess it depends on your priorities. Do you have any 4K content or would you be relying on upscaling? If you use netflix there certainly is quite a bit. HDR is probably a bigger deal than 4k really, and the projector doesn't have that (nor is the VW95 particularly bright at all). OLED might not be as bright as some of the top LCD options, but it is way brighter than a projector with much higher contrast ratio.

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post #77 of 185 Old 04-04-2019, 12:58 PM
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Hi Len,

Thanks for the reply. Don't use 3D, no 4k content yet from Netflix(just 1080). You're right the vw95 isn't super bright but it still has a great picture(after cal). No I was just wondering out loud as to which way to go when the VW95 dies, but I'm guessing it still has a lot of life left.

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post #78 of 185 Old 04-04-2019, 01:40 PM
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With this "Damocle's sword" dangling on its head, for me, Sony is out.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019...v-home-screen/

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post #79 of 185 Old 04-04-2019, 02:31 PM
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What i want to know more about is Panasonic OLED dull, accurate, natural colors which several reviewers have mentioned vs the competition.
I would, too. "Dull" doesn't seem to fit with the reviews I've seen. Do you have the links for?

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For those interested, a couple of 2018 TV shootout links.

Robert Zohn (LG, Sony OLEDS, Sony LED/LCD, Samsung QLED)

https://www.bigpicturebigsound.com/S...Shootout.shtml

Vincent Teoh (Panasonic, LG, Sony OLEDS, Samsung QLED)

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc.../#4411dc07717e

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post #81 of 185 Old 04-04-2019, 04:12 PM
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I would, too. "Dull" doesn't seem to fit with the reviews I've seen. Do you have the links for?
I did some reading on the EZ950. Most reviews talk about color accuracy. The way folks describe LG OLED colors reminds me of vivid settings LCD.. The way folks describe Pansonic OLED colors reminds me of Plasma...like dull and natural.

Trusted reviews:
''It’s not the most punchy HDR TV on the market, but what it lacks in outright impact it repays in class leading colour fidelity and subtlety.''

''Then there’s the matter of colours, which look superb. They’re lush without looking oversaturated or exaggerated, which was an issue with early OLED TVs – especially with regards to delivering convincing skin tones. Panasonic has clearly worked out how to handle subtle shading, because the EZ952 is great at it. I’d go so far as to say this Panasonic has the best colours I’ve seen on an OLED this year. There’s a lovely balance here – the picture is richer than that offered by the Sony A1, yet more restrained than anything offered by LG. It just feels natural. It just feels right.''

hdtvtest:
''Among all TV brands, Panasonic has been the one which places the most emphasis on colour fidelity, and this ethos is clearly evident on the EZ952B. Once we put the Panasonic TX55EZ952B in its most accurate picture preset and watched some content even before touching any of the picture-affecting controls, the first word that came to mind was none other than “natural”.''
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post #82 of 185 Old 04-04-2019, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
I did some reading on the EZ950. Most reviews talk about color accuracy. The way folks describe LG OLED colors reminds me of vivid settings LCD.. The way folks describe Pansonic OLED colors reminds me of Plasma...like dull and natural.

Trusted reviews:
''It’s not the most punchy HDR TV on the market, but what it lacks in outright impact it repays in class leading colour fidelity and subtlety.''

''Then there’s the matter of colours, which look superb. They’re lush without looking oversaturated or exaggerated, which was an issue with early OLED TVs – especially with regards to delivering convincing skin tones. Panasonic has clearly worked out how to handle subtle shading, because the EZ952 is great at it. I’d go so far as to say this Panasonic has the best colours I’ve seen on an OLED this year. There’s a lovely balance here – the picture is richer than that offered by the Sony A1, yet more restrained than anything offered by LG. It just feels natural. It just feels right.''

hdtvtest:
''Among all TV brands, Panasonic has been the one which places the most emphasis on colour fidelity, and this ethos is clearly evident on the EZ952B. Once we put the Panasonic TX55EZ952B in its most accurate picture preset and watched some content even before touching any of the picture-affecting controls, the first word that came to mind was none other than “natural”.''
Yes, the colors on the Panasonic are Natural and as the review above - it is just right. Certainly not dull and not over-saturated. If Panasonic was dull, it would not have won any of the shootouts. For color accuracy, the Panasonic OLED has only one competitor. Go to a store and check it out yourself. GZ2000 coming out this year supposed to be the brightest OLED yet. God willing, if reviews are good, one 65" will be in my house.
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post #83 of 185 Old 04-05-2019, 07:08 AM
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Yes, the colors on the Panasonic are Natural and as the review above - it is just right. Certainly not dull and not over-saturated. If Panasonic was dull, it would not have won any of the shootouts. For color accuracy, the Panasonic OLED has only one competitor. Go to a store and check it out yourself. GZ2000 coming out this year supposed to be the brightest OLED yet. God willing, if reviews are good, one 65" will be in my house.
To most people tv vivid colors are exciting, natural colors are dull, that is one of the reasons why LCD is king and Plasma is gone, and that is what i am talking about.
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post #84 of 185 Old 04-05-2019, 09:11 AM
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With this "Damocle's sword" dangling on its head, for me, Sony is out.
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2019...v-home-screen/
So Samsung and LG have put adds in their system on purpose, while Sony has got them through google deciding to change the home screen app in Android TV. At least Sony didn't choose to inflict them on users unlike LG and Samsung that did it on purpose themselves. Still not nice of google to do.

So who would you buy from now? I guess Vizio still appears to be an option.

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post #85 of 185 Old 04-05-2019, 12:50 PM
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So Samsung and LG have put adds in their system on purpose, while Sony has got them through google deciding to change the home screen app in Android TV. At least Sony didn't choose to inflict them on users unlike LG and Samsung that did it on purpose themselves. Still not nice of google to do.

So who would you buy from now? I guess Vizio still appears to be an option.

The CTO of Vizio was recently interviewed, and specifically said that abuse of Smart TV functionality to exploit customers is an essential part of Vizio's business model. The interview was mostly focused on data collection and spying, but I'd be surprised if Vizio did not jump on the advertising bandwagon, given their attitude.

https://www.theverge.com/2019/1/7/18...ecast-ces-2019
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post #86 of 185 Old 04-05-2019, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, the colors on the Panasonic are Natural and as the review above - it is just right. Certainly not dull and not over-saturated. If Panasonic was dull, it would not have won any of the shootouts. For color accuracy, the Panasonic OLED has only one competitor. Go to a store and check it out yourself. GZ2000 coming out this year supposed to be the brightest OLED yet. God willing, if reviews are good, one 65" will be in my house.
Then why are you posting in the lg owners thread about getting a e9? I'm almost certain that the gz2000 will be a better looking tv than a c9/e9. Only thing will be the long wait but it might be worth it. the lg's higher peak whites are coming by not tracking the eotf accurately at the high end and inflating the whites, panasonic gz2000 will not be resorting to any of that, it will have brighter whites at the panel level, a customized panel with their own cooling solution which allows to push more current through the panel and make the pixels brighter, so the gz2000 should have higher peak brightness (highest of all oleds this year) while still maintaining eotf tracking accuracy.
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post #87 of 185 Old 04-05-2019, 01:19 PM
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Does Panasonic offer eARC on 2019 models?

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post #88 of 185 Old 04-05-2019, 01:45 PM - Thread Starter
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^The panasonic and sony oleds this year should support earc on a hdmi 2.0b chipset, they wont support vrr or allm. Whether earc will extend to all lower models, we'll know when the models are out .That's not as good as lg having hdmi 2.1 but still better than what samsung is doing on their 4k qleds this year, the Q90R doesnt even support earc.
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Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
^The panasonic and sony oleds this year should support earc on a hdmi 2.0b chipset, they wont support vrr or allm. Whether earc will extend to all lower models, we'll know when the models are out .That's not as good as lg having hdmi 2.1 but still better than what samsung is doing on their 4k qleds this year, the Q90R doesnt even support earc.
Panasonic will not support eARC because their outdated processor doesn't support it ... They will support ALLM and that's all. Or have I missed some new announcement?
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post #90 of 185 Old 04-06-2019, 02:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
Then why are you posting in the lg owners thread about getting a e9? I'm almost certain that the gz2000 will be a better looking tv than a c9/e9. Only thing will be the long wait but it might be worth it. the lg's higher peak whites are coming by not tracking the eotf accurately at the high end and inflating the whites, panasonic gz2000 will not be resorting to any of that, it will have brighter whites at the panel level, a customized panel with their own cooling solution which allows to push more current through the panel and make the pixels brighter, so the gz2000 should have higher peak brightness (highest of all oleds this year) while still maintaining eotf tracking accuracy.
I plan to get the E9. It will be my Netflix and Youtube TV and will replace my B6. The GZ2000 is very late, end of 2019 at my place. I can only get it in 2020. In the meantime will keep myself happy with E9 and A9F. I currently use the A9F only to watch Apple TV and 4K blu rays.
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