Comparison thread LG vs sony vs panasonic oleds 2019 - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 179 Old 05-14-2019, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
vincent doesnt call the results in the shootouts he organizes. he gets a group of people to evaluate and rate the tv's after calibrating them to D65 and running the same content on them.
Really? I didn't know this. C'mon Menarini, of course I did!

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his personal preference doesnt influence the results, because all the people who evaluate and rate the tv's, their ratings are tallied to arrive at the winner. it's just like what happens in the u.s. shootout. so far in the '17 and '18 shooutouts in uk ('17 was the first year panasonic oleds were available), the pana. has won the overall best tv and the home theater category. the a9g and the lg c9/e9 need to be doing something special if they are to beat the custom panel gz2000 this year, imo.
Umm, no, not exactly. In the U.S., the organizer of the shootouts, Robert Zohn, does not do online reviews of TVs, expressing his opinions on each and every contender. If he did, that would influence attendees knowing that a pro has already prejudged what is 'best'. So by Vincent doing this, IMO it absolutely can influence results.

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post #152 of 179 Old 05-14-2019, 02:09 PM
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You may believe that sony's and lg's presets are 'good enough' and that's okay, many people dont calibrate sony and lg's either, however if you want the best fine tuning OOTB, then there is no denying that panasonic doees this better than all other brands (not just sony or lg, add in all the others). There was a review done in a publication here in asia (taiwan) that rated panasonic fz950's pro1 (professional 1) preset's accuracy on the level of the sony bvm x300 oled monitor.

Again that's not to say that sony or lg look horrible OOTB, they still look good, but to a videophile that wants the best accuracy OOTB, pana. is better.

And like i have said it, i have more of an inclination towards sony, but i will be realistic and i will not write off panasonic's advantages in areas i know it excels over other brands.
And if you want the best accuracy from any panel, including Panasonic, you do a full calibration. And yes, many of today's better displays are 'good enough' for most users OOTB. It was not always that way, but by most objective measures it has gotten very good without calibration.

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post #153 of 179 Old 05-14-2019, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
 
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And if you want the best accuracy from any panel, including Panasonic, you do a full calibration. And yes, many of today's better displays are 'good enough' for most users OOTB. It was not always that way, but by most objective measures it has gotten very good without calibration.
I told you in another post that to many people calibrators are not accessible or calibration equipment, to them pana. would be a better option. If youre using uncalibrated sets, my point stands that pana. has you closest to color accuracy, better than other brands.
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post #154 of 179 Old 05-14-2019, 02:16 PM
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I told you in another post that to many people calibrators are not accessible or calibration equipment, to them pana. would be a better option. If youre using uncalibrated sets, my point stands that pana. is giving you the best accuracy, better than other brands.
Most of us in the U.S. do have access to calibrators, so for the overwhelming majority here, that's a moot point...especially where Panasonic isn't available in the first place. If your area doesn't have access to calibrators and the best OOTB color accuracy is your only concern, than fine, go for Panasonic. For others, absolute OOTB color accuracy is not the overriding purchasing concern.

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post #155 of 179 Old 05-14-2019, 02:18 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Really? I didn't know this. C'mon Menarini, of course I did!

Umm, no, not exactly. In the U.S., the organizer of the shootouts, Robert Zohn, does not do online reviews of TVs, expressing his opinions on each and every contender. If he did, that would influence attendees knowing that a pro has already prejudged what is 'best'. So by Vincent doing this, IMO it absolutely can influence results.
You can always nitpick the objectivity of any shootout that gets hosted, if you have little confidence in the results of the said shootout, then you can choose to ignore the results. However , ive also seen people (oled owners) are also biased when it comes to accepting the results, unless it's their brand that wins, they begin to question the objectivity of the shootouts. if their brand wins, then they gobble up the results without second thought
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post #156 of 179 Old 05-14-2019, 02:21 PM
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You can always nitpick the objectivity of any shootout that gets hosted, if you have little confidence in the results of the said shootout, then you can choose to ignore the results. However , ive also seen people (oled owners) are also biased when it comes to accepting the results, unless it's their brand that wins, they begin to question the objectivity of the shootouts. if their brand wins, then they gobble up the results without second thought
Please, this has nothing to do with which brand wins. The shootout hasn't even taken place. My point, which I stand by, is if the organizer has already clearly expressed his opinion of all the contenders, then that takes something away from the objectivity of the attendees. That's only common sense. But you and I disagree on most points, so I'm sure you won't agree.

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post #157 of 179 Old 05-14-2019, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Most of us in the U.S. do have access to calibrators, so for the overwhelming majority here, that's a moot point...especially where Panasonic isn't available in the first place. If your area doesn't have access to calibrators and the best OOTB color accuracy is your only concern, than fine, go for Panasonic. For others, absolute OOTB color accuracy is not the overriding purchasing concern.
dont ignore the fact that it also costs money, it's by no means cheap hiring a calibrator, and if you go the DIY route, the cheapest meter + pattern generator + calman will still set you back by about 1000 usd , with a better meter youre looking at about 2000 usd.

For people in many countries, by getting a lg and having it calibrated, the total cost would go higher than the price of a panasonic.
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post #158 of 179 Old 05-14-2019, 02:26 PM
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dont ignore the fact that it also costs money, it's by no means cheap hiring a calibrator, and if you go the DIY route, the cheapest meter + pattern generator + calman will still set you back by about 1000 usd , with a better meter youre looking at about 2000 usd.

For people in many countries, by getting a lg and having it calibrated, the total cost would go higher than the price of a panasonic.
And many would see absolutely no need to use a calibrator with an LG or Sony. As I've said, you can pooh pooh this, but OOTB calibration has gotten extremely good with both LG & Sony.

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post #159 of 179 Old 05-14-2019, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Please, this has nothing to do with which brand wins. The shootout hasn't even taken place. My point, which I stand by, is if the organizer has already clearly expressed his opinion of all the contenders, then that takes something away from the objectivity of the attendees. That's only common sense. But you and I disagree on most points, so I'm sure you won't agree.
Im not pinpointing at this bias in accepting results at you in particular, but i know this exists among many oled owners out there, i have followed both the u.s. and uk shootouts in the previous few years. If the results place the tv he bought higher, no problem, just parade the results around, if his tv loses by a couple of points, then the defense cloak is put on and along come questions about the objectivity of the results (why did the people evaluating not have their heads straight during the shootout....lol).
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post #160 of 179 Old 05-14-2019, 02:49 PM
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Im not pinpointing at this bias in accepting results at you in particular, but i know this exists among many oled owners out there, i have followed both the u.s. and uk shootouts in the previous few years. If the results place the tv he bought higher, no problem, just parade the results around, if his tv loses by a couple of points, then the defense cloak is put on and along come questions about the objectivity of the results (why did the people evaluating not have their heads straight during the shootout....lol).
You're totally missing my point. I said the organizer of the shootout is expressing a bias by doing online reviews & expressing his opinion of the contenders of the shootout prior to the shootout. This injects a potential bias in the attendees (possibly subliminally, possibly overtly) in deciding which display is 'best'.

Here in the U.S. that's not how our shootouts are done. As I told you the organizer is unbiased, does not do display reviews and the displays in the shootout are not provided by the manufacturers.

Can the attendees come with their own biases? Of course. In that respect it's no different than Vincent's shootouts. But I do think it's important that the organizer comes with no stated biases as can be easily derived from prior online reviews.

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post #161 of 179 Old 05-14-2019, 04:16 PM
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It won a competition that the A9F did not participate in...
FZ800 has the same exact picture performance as the "top of the line" FZ900. Seriously, is this the point you're getting hung up on?
The top of the line Panasonic is the 1000 and the 2000...not the 900. The 1000 won, the 2000 will highly likely win even if Sony participates.
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post #162 of 179 Old 05-14-2019, 05:25 PM
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The top of the line Panasonic is the 1000 and the 2000...not the 900. The 1000 won, the 2000 will highly likely win even if Sony participates.
Dude, I'm talking about 2018...
FZ800 has Panasonic's best PQ last year. A9F was Sony's best last year. They did not compete in the shootout. Therefore Panasonic did not beat the A9F last year. And unless you have a time machine, the GZ2000 has not beaten the A9G or anything else in 2019. Get it now?

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post #163 of 179 Old 05-14-2019, 05:37 PM - Thread Starter
 
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And many would see absolutely no need to use a calibrator with an LG or Sony. As I've said, you can pooh pooh this, but OOTB calibration has gotten extremely good with both LG & Sony.
I can immediately make by looking at an uncalibrated lg and panasonic which has the more natural looking colors, lg's seem to have some oversaturation ootb, pana. looks neither over or undersaturated, just right. the better fine tuning is noticeable. and the other advantage is skin tones, pana. has the more natural looking skin tones of all oleds, pause a scene with characters on screen and compare the character's faces on screen on the pana to the sony or lg, pana. has an advantage.

And again, saying lg and sony are 'extremely good' with color accuracy ootb isn't refuting the fact that pana. is better comparably, both measurably and perceptually.

Isn't that what videophiles care about, what looks better among the compared tv's, rather than just saying they are all extremely good?
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post #164 of 179 Old 05-14-2019, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
 
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You're totally missing my point. I said the organizer of the shootout is expressing a bias by doing online reviews & expressing his opinion of the contenders of the shootout prior to the shootout. This injects a potential bias in the attendees (possibly subliminally, possibly overtly) in deciding which display is 'best'.

Here in the U.S. that's not how our shootouts are done. As I told you the organizer is unbiased, does not do display reviews and the displays in the shootout are not provided by the manufacturers.

Can the attendees come with their own biases? Of course. In that respect it's no different than Vincent's shootouts. But I do think it's important that the organizer comes with no stated biases as can be easily derived from prior online reviews.
Just because he does online reviews does not make him biased, he reviews all brands, he's a calibrator too , so he gets to calibrate lg, sony and pana. In vincent's tv reviews as well as the comparison video reviews, i have never seen that he has shown any brand prejudice, he has always spelled out what's good and bad on the tv hes reviewing, in comparison video reviews, again he gives the relative pluses and minuses of tv stacked on the left to the tv stacked on the right.

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post #165 of 179 Old 05-14-2019, 05:59 PM - Thread Starter
 
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Dude, I'm talking about 2018...
FZ800 has Panasonic's best PQ last year. A9F was Sony's best last year. They did not compete in the shootout. Therefore Panasonic did not beat the A9F last year. And unless you have a time machine, the GZ2000 has not beaten the A9G or anything else in 2019. Get it now?
Panasonic EZ1000 beat the sony A1/AIE in 2017, the panasonic FZ800 beat the sony A8F in 2018, the reason A9F was not included because it was a late september launch.

This year, it is definitely looking like the GZ2000 is bringing more improvements over its predecessor than the sony a9g is bringing up over the a9f, it is panasonic's best looking oled to date, so i think it will take it again this year, unless the a9g can bring something special. You can await the results but this year i would feel more confident in panasonic's chances than the previous years it ended up winning, if it's the GZ2000 that is present at the shootout.

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post #166 of 179 Old 05-14-2019, 06:14 PM
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Panasonic EZ1000 beat the sony A1/AIE in 2017, the panasonic FZ800 beat the sony A8F in 2018, the reason A9F was not included because it was a late september launch.

This year, it is definitely looking like the GZ2000 is bringing more improvements over its predecessor than the sony a9g is bringing up over the a9f, it is panasonic's best looking oled to date, so i think it will take it again this year, unless the a9g can bring something special. You can await the results but this year i would feel more confident in panasonic's chances than the previous years it ended up winning, if it's the GZ2000 that is present at the shootout.
What are these improvements? A supposedly brighter panel and...Dolby Vision? Oh, and I guess a fancy sound system. Is there any improvement in motion? Upscaling? Color volume? Dynamic tone mapping? Right, you'll have to wait for calibrators to get their hands on it to get the full picture and see how it compares to the best from Sony and LG.

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post #167 of 179 Old 05-14-2019, 08:08 PM
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I can immediately make by looking at an uncalibrated lg and panasonic which has the more natural looking colors, lg's seem to have some oversaturation ootb, pana. looks neither over or undersaturated, just right. the better fine tuning is noticeable. and the other advantage is skin tones, pana. has the more natural looking skin tones of all oleds, pause a scene with characters on screen and compare the character's faces on screen on the pana to the sony or lg, pana. has an advantage.

And again, saying lg and sony are 'extremely good' with color accuracy ootb isn't refuting the fact that pana. is better comparably, both measurably and perceptually.

Isn't that what videophiles care about, what looks better among the compared tv's, rather than just saying they are all extremely good?
What you see as oversaturated, others may see as ‘just right’. Likewise your perfect looking Panasonic might look somewhat understated to some. Aside from that, a truly oversaturated picture can be simplistically corrected for most people by lowering saturation one or two clicks.

Look, we’re going around in circles as is always the case. We accomplish nothing. You’re clearly in love with the Panasonic and that’s great since you have access to one. Buy it and be happy knowing it fits your needs better than other displays. It’s already won your shootout and that’s the only shootout that counts.

Who cares what winner a public shootout declares? You buy the display that looks best to you, not what looks best to the guy sitting next to you. Done.
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post #168 of 179 Old 05-14-2019, 08:13 PM
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Just because he does online reviews does not make him biased, he reviews all brands, he's a calibrator too , so he gets to calibrate lg, sony and pana. In vincent's tv reviews as well as the comparison video reviews, i have never seen that he has shown any brand prejudice, he has always spelled out what's good and bad on the tv hes reviewing, in comparison video reviews, again he gives the relative pluses and minuses of tv stacked on the left to the tv stacked on the right.
Again and again you miss my point. I’m talking about the influence his reviews have on attendees at his shootouts, not any bias he may or may not have.

OK, I’m done here. I know you need to get in the last word so have at it. This thread has gotten tiresome and boring. Enjoy your Panasonic.

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post #169 of 179 Old 05-14-2019, 08:58 PM - Thread Starter
 
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^Ken lol, do you not remember from the lg c9 related threads when i was posting there few days back, some people lambasting me as a sony fan? Like i said, i have a bit more inclination towards sony, i dont own a panasonic you know, the sony a9g/a9f is still high on my consideration list, but in areas where i know panasonic is boss, i just wont downplay that. With video processing, sony and pana. are considered similar, sony has some edge in motion and scaling, pana. has the upper hand in color accuracy and skin tones. And pana. has won both the shootouts it's been present in the uk and this year it again has a very strong chance if the gz2000 is there.

If you don't want to believe the results of the shootouts or my opinion, that's fine i'm not trying to convince you, especially since you couldn't go evaluate a pana. for yourself . Hope you have a good time with your lg c9 as that is what you bought, trying to put you down or your choice is not my intention. None of the oleds are miles apart, it's about the subtle advantages that videophiles like me do care about.
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I'll remember to bring up this thread in july or later, whenever the gz2000 has some reviews up and the hdtvtest shootout results. it isnt releasing anywhere before july.
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post #170 of 179 Old 05-15-2019, 02:14 AM
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What are these improvements? A supposedly brighter panel and...Dolby Vision? Oh, and I guess a fancy sound system. Is there any improvement in motion? Upscaling? Color volume? Dynamic tone mapping? Right, you'll have to wait for calibrators to get their hands on it to get the full picture and see how it compares to the best from Sony and LG.
Panasonic has a new processor this year that will bring improvements associated with it e.g. X1 ultimate did to A9F and Alpha 9 to C9. Looking forward to Panasonic take on Dolby Vision.

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post #171 of 179 Old 05-15-2019, 07:07 AM
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Dude, I'm talking about 2018...
FZ800 has Panasonic's best PQ last year. A9F was Sony's best last year. They did not compete in the shootout. Therefore Panasonic did not beat the A9F last year. And unless you have a time machine, the GZ2000 has not beaten the A9G or anything else in 2019. Get it now?
You are right that the FZ800 was Panasonics best last year but the very best Panasonic had to offer, which are OLEDs with the 000 in it, was absent last year. In 2017 the Panasonic EZ1000 beat the Sony top OLED A1 as well as the Sony top LCD ZD9.
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You are right that the FZ800 was Panasonics best last year but the very best Panasonic had to offer, which are OLEDs with the 000 in it, was absent last year. In 2017 the Panasonic EZ1000 beat the Sony top OLED A1 as well as the Sony top LCD ZD9.
Even the LG OLED beat the A1E and Z9D on the state side.

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post #173 of 179 Unread 06-12-2019, 09:23 AM
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My god you lot squabble.
I was this year very interested in the Panasonic. Even more now as i just blew up my old Panasonic 50 vt50

But no hdmi 2.1 is a big no no for me so it has to be the LG C9
From what Ive read in many articles you cannot get full dynamic hdr down an 18 gig pipe, you need the 48. tbh its very confusing.

Ive logged on just to see what people think of the panels & they're purchases, but all that's on here is squabbling about (paid off )vincent & a professional panel.
If any of you have bit the bullet & bought one please let us know about the panel & your experience.
& shut up about vincent. his loyalties lye where hes paid.

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post #174 of 179 Unread 06-12-2019, 12:18 PM
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Shut up about vincent. his loyalties lye where hes paid.
Youtube?


Panasonic still isn't available ...
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post #175 of 179 Unread 06-14-2019, 11:35 AM
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Well, according to rtings review, the LG C9 beats the Sony A9G. The A9G seems to suffer in the brightness for some reason.
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post #176 of 179 Unread 06-14-2019, 01:20 PM
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And in the VE shoot-out, the A9G beat the C9. At the end of the day, they are both excellent displays.
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post #177 of 179 Unread 06-14-2019, 01:38 PM
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Well, according to rtings review, the LG C9 beats the Sony A9G. The A9G seems to suffer in the brightness for some reason.
In the big scheme of things, those differences are completely not important.

At that level, the things that differentiate those TV are not easily measurable. You cannot objectively measure how good motion handling is, it is a very subjective thing. You could ask a panel of 50 viewers to rate particular TV implementation - but it still will be more of a preference. BFI - rtings only check if it is present. But one implementation can completely ruin the experience, while another enhance it even at 24p.

Sony also tend to have better handling of less-than-pristine and bandwidth-starved content with its processing filters. Last time I checked it was light years ahead of the LG's implementation, exp. in Smooth Gradation filtering.
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post #178 of 179 Unread 06-17-2019, 07:29 AM
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Phil Hinton of the uk AVForums had some hands on time with the new Panasonic GZ2000 Oled (John Archer also there )

not sure if the link is allowed ? but he said it was Night and Day better than the Sony Oled sat next to it in comparison

https://www.avforums.com/threads/avf...-2019.2235449/ 42 mins in
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post #179 of 179 Unread 06-17-2019, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigertim View Post
Phil Hinton of the uk AVForums had some hands on time with the new Panasonic GZ2000 Oled (John Archer also there )

not sure if the link is allowed ? but he said it was Night and Day better than the Sony Oled sat next to it in comparison

https://www.avforums.com/threads/avf...-2019.2235449/ 42 mins in


Interesting..looks promising though would need to wait for independent review on this and not something that Panasonic setup. I recall Panasonic used a suspect Kuro to demo the ZT65 plasma against
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