LG 65" C9 OLED Hands-On & Review - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 185 Old 04-20-2019, 09:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Brent mckendrick View Post
This is good news. The “goal posts” on my B7 drive me nuts. If this TV finally got rid of the vertical banding, that’s really something.

How’s the white screen uniformity? Are there still problems with yellow blotches?
If you put up a full-screen 100% white pattern, there is some variation in tone. To my eyes, it appears to be connected to the off axis color shift, so if you are relatively close to the screen the center of the screen is warmer. This is closely related to the fact that if you view an all-white screen on an OLED off-axis, you'll see that color shift manifest with the screen temp getting cooler as the viewing angle relative to the screen increases. But it's not "blotches" per se it's a gradient, and it's fairly subtle. But it's certainly not comparable to the uniformity of an all-white pattern projected on a 1.0-gain "lambertian diffusion" screen using a high-end projector.

With any luck, rtings measurements will clarify if there are gains versus uniformity on previous models. My take is that it's noticeable but only in the context of staring at a pattern and scrutinizing, not in terms of seeing it when normal content is playing and you are viewing the screen from a normal distance and angle.

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post #62 of 185 Old 04-20-2019, 10:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
If you put up a full-screen 100% white pattern, there is some variation in tone. To my eyes, it appears to be connected to the off axis color shift, so if you are relatively close to the screen the center of the screen is warmer. This is closely related to the fact that if you view an all-white screen on an OLED off-axis, you'll see that color shift manifest with the screen temp getting cooler as the viewing angle relative to the screen increases. But it's not "blotches" per se it's a gradient, and it's fairly subtle. But it's certainly not comparable to the uniformity of an all-white pattern projected on a 1.0-gain "lambertian diffusion" screen using a high-end projector.

With any luck, rtings measurements will clarify if there are gains versus uniformity on previous models. My take is that it's noticeable but only in the context of staring at a pattern and scrutinizing, not in terms of seeing it when normal content is playing and you are viewing the screen from a normal distance and angle.
Hi Imagic,

Getting 65" in a week or so. I was wondering if you could do me a favor since yours is setup on the stand. Could you possibly measure the height in inches from top of the furniture its setting on to the bottom and top VESA holes. I'm trying to see if I'm going to have to move my wall mount down to keep the TV centered in my wall unit opening or if the mount's VESA position adjustments will work. The VESA holes are somewhat lower than my Samsung HU9000. There wasn't enough room to get behind the one on display at COSTCO without moving it and I don't think they would have liked that much and BB does not have one on display yet.


Thanks
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post #63 of 185 Old 04-20-2019, 01:58 PM
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Yes, and if you need some help calibrating it feel free to reach out!
I won't be getting anything until the Sony dies. Still never had it calibrated.

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post #64 of 185 Old 04-20-2019, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent mckendrick View Post
This is good news. The “goal posts” on my B7 drive me nuts. If this TV finally got rid of the vertical banding, that’s really something.

How’s the white screen uniformity? Are there still problems with yellow blotches?
His 5% IRE panel may be cleaner but you cannot extrapolate his panel's condition to all the 2019 panels, i have been seeing all of the grayscale pics people are posting of their c9/e9 i can find on the net and some of the 'bad' panels look just as bad as the 2018 panels. The panel lottery is still in effect, do not jump to conclude that lg display got 'rid' of the vertical banding. Also, far as panel improvements go, i have seen shots of the c9's subpixel structure, i dont see a change from the 2018 structure (someone correct me on this if there is indeed some change), on the 2018 panels the red subpixel also got bigger, im not seeing what changes happened this year. I'm just curious on what panel level improvements, including any subpixel structure change, has lg display made in the 2019 panels compared to 2018 ones.
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post #65 of 185 Old 04-20-2019, 03:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brent mckendrick View Post
This is good news. The “goal posts” on my B7 drive me nuts. If this TV finally got rid of the vertical banding, that’s really something.

How’s the white screen uniformity? Are there still problems with yellow blotches?
If you put up a full-screen 100% white pattern, there is some variation in tone. To my eyes, it appears to be connected to the off axis color shift, so if you are relatively close to the screen the center of the screen is warmer. This is closely related to the fact that if you view an all-white screen on an OLED off-axis, you'll see that color shift manifest with the screen temp getting cooler as the viewing angle relative to the screen increases. But it's not "blotches" per se it's a gradient, and it's fairly subtle. But it's certainly not comparable to the uniformity of an all-white pattern projected on a 1.0-gain "lambertian diffusion" screen using a high-end projector.

With any luck, rtings measurements will clarify if there are gains versus uniformity on previous models. My take is that it's noticeable but only in the context of staring at a pattern and scrutinizing, not in terms of seeing it when normal content is playing and you are viewing the screen from a normal distance and angle.
There’s definitely tint always and it’s a matter of getting less than more. It also will show more in certain content. For example the red/magenta may not show a lot on a white screen but if you have green grass or tan earth color up it will show more. It’s weird but I don’t think there’s any “tint free” panels. Based on the 3 I’ve seen in person, tint is just as much of a lottery as banding.
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post #66 of 185 Old 04-20-2019, 03:16 PM
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I also read that the A9F’s panel is dimmer than the C9: https://www.techradar.com/reviews/lg...65c9-oled77c9; looks like the C9 is the way to go if you want a punchier picture
The A9F's secret weapon is its high color volume and dynamic tone mapping. Sony's tone mapping is so good it can make HDR10 look similar to Dolby Vision. Still Im very happy with the C9. I waited for OLED tech to mature and LG provides many smart features. Im not sure if LG can push its current panel any harder. Next year OLED tech will be very interesting.
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post #67 of 185 Old 04-20-2019, 03:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
His 5% IRE panel may be cleaner but you cannot extrapolate his panel's condition to all the 2019 panels, i have been seeing all of the grayscale pics people are posting of their c9/e9 i can find on the net and some of the 'bad' panels look just as bad as the 2018 panels. The panel lottery is still in effect, do not jump to conclude that lg display got 'rid' of the vertical banding. Also, far as panel improvements go, i have seen shots of the c9's subpixel structure, i dont see a change from the 2018 structure (someone correct me on this if there is indeed some change), on the 2018 panels the red subpixel also got bigger, im not seeing what changes happened this year. I'm just curious on what panel level improvements, including any subpixel structure change, has lg display made in the 2019 panels compared to 2018 ones.
D-Nice said the sub-pixels had changed: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57836606

He also posted some pics, but I can't find them now. There are way too many C9 threads filled with random talk.
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post #68 of 185 Old 04-20-2019, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by Baff View Post
D-Nice said the sub-pixels had changed: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57836606

He also posted some pics, but I can't find them now. There are way too many C9 threads filled with random talk.
Pixel pics & fill-factor estimates: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...l#post57856808
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post #69 of 185 Old 04-20-2019, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
The A9F's secret weapon is its high color volume and dynamic tone mapping. Sony's tone mapping is so good it can make HDR10 look similar to Dolby Vision. Still Im very happy with the C9. I waited for OLED tech to mature and LG provides many smart features. Im not sure if LG can push its current panel any harder. Next year OLED tech will be very interesting.
How?
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post #70 of 185 Old 04-20-2019, 04:21 PM
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How?


We might get top emission panels.


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post #71 of 185 Old 04-20-2019, 04:32 PM
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We might get top emission panels.


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Well, LG didn't end up needing to develop top-emission to deliver a 65" 8K WOLED, so yop-emission might or might not materialize next year (I putting my bet on not).

On the other hand, LGD has been living off of the same WOLED stack for 4 years now (after a period of yearly changes from the first WOLED TV launch in 2013), and they have stated a roadmap to increase 100% peak brightness ABL limits from 150cd/m2 in 2018 to 200cd/m2 in 2020, so there is a good chance we'll be seeing a modified WOLED stack next year (including the possibility of higher-efficiency emmitters).
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post #72 of 185 Old 04-21-2019, 04:00 PM
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Curious if the Spears and Munsil UHD disc will be up for sale any time soon.


Replication will start in a week or two.
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post #73 of 185 Old 04-26-2019, 01:43 PM
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Is the review coming soon or?....
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post #74 of 185 Old 04-26-2019, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Is the review coming soon or?....
I'm pretty busy so it'll publish when... It's ready.

Or I'll post more ad hoc comments.

This whole week was meetings and travel and dealing with shipping... I got in about 15 minutes of actual watching movies critically. Alien 40th anniversary UHD BD.

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post #75 of 185 Old 04-27-2019, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Quick comment... Unsurprising, I suppose, that ISF Expert Dark Room is the most accurate mode. With absolute out-of-the-box defaults it's giving me 115 nits peak full-screen whites and extremely accurate colors, per this ColorChecker scan:



Average delta E of 1.73 is good stuff for an untouched TV. rec.709 coverage clocked in at 106% so it's boosting colors a tiny bit, which of course looks great.

I'm going to stop using ISF Expert Bright Room, I did not realize how much it boosts saturation. It's nice eye candy but only 10 nits brighter than Dark Room (SDR, white, full-screen, out of box defaults)

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post #76 of 185 Old 04-28-2019, 03:28 AM
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Can we use the ISF Dark Room setting during daytime?

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post #77 of 185 Old 04-28-2019, 04:33 AM
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Can we use the ISF Dark Room setting during daytime?
No reason you can’t but maybe you want to change gamma to 2.2.

I run isf dark all day and night around 60 OLED Light usually unless it’s really bright day or all the lights are on I might switch to bright.
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post #78 of 185 Old 04-28-2019, 04:56 AM
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Even though ISF Dark is pretty accurate, I assume calibration is still worthwhile?
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post #79 of 185 Old 04-28-2019, 04:56 AM
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No reason you can’t but maybe you want to change gamma to 2.2.

I run isf dark all day and night around 60 OLED Light usually unless it’s really bright day or all the lights are on I might switch to bright.
Will try these settings once my E9 arrives. How about the technicolor settings? Are they any good?
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post #80 of 185 Old 04-28-2019, 05:00 AM - Thread Starter
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Even though ISF Dark is pretty accurate, I assume calibration is still worthwhile?
Worthwhile is relative; better to simply say that it can further improve performance. For enthusiasts I'd say yes but for typical consumers I'd say TVs are finally shipping with color that's accurate enough to skip the pro calibration.
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Worthwhile is relative; better to simply say that it can further improve performance. For enthusiasts I'd say yes but for typical consumers I'd say TVs are finally shipping with color that's accurate enough to skip the pro calibration.
Good. Took me sometime to change settings on A9F, but was very satisfied with the end results. Hope E9 can deliver similar satisfying results. B6, a great tv for its time, was a bit disappointing in this aspect.
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post #82 of 185 Old 04-28-2019, 05:22 AM
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^Lg's have improved ootb accuracy YOY, iirc the 2017's ootb had average dE close to 3, the 2018 ones were lower but above 2, this year has seen improvements again. Still no panasonic with their professional 1 preset which is the leader with ootb accuracy, but it's good. Skipping the pro calibration im not sure, if you have the means or expertise go for a calibration on the lg, over in the c9 calibration thread, some people have reported significant improvements.
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post #83 of 185 Old 04-28-2019, 05:41 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
^Lg's have improved ootb accuracy YOY, iirc the 2017's ootb had average dE close to 3, the 2018 ones were lower but above 2, this year has seen improvements again. Still no panasonic with their professional 1 preset which is the leader with ootb accuracy, but it's good. Skipping the pro calibration im not sure, if you have the means or expertise go for a calibration on the lg, over in the c9 calibration thread, some people have reported significant improvements.
He only bolded half my sentence. Of course enthusiasts will appreciate the improvements brought on by a calibration, and aside from ISF Dark Room, which measured well, the other modes can use some adjustment. Most importantly "typical consumer" is not who you find in these threads.

Yes, I would contend that "typical consumer" TV buyers would fail to readily notice improvements from a calibration of ISF Pro Dark Room mode.

Nevertheless, calibration will only ever not be worthwhile when TVs ship with perfect color right out of the box and never change over time. We're nowhere near that yet.

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post #84 of 185 Old 04-28-2019, 05:47 AM
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^Lg's have improved ootb accuracy YOY, iirc the 2017's ootb had average dE close to 3, the 2018 ones were lower but above 2, this year has seen improvements again. Still no panasonic with their professional 1 preset which is the leader with ootb accuracy, but it's good. Skipping the pro calibration im not sure, if you have the means or expertise go for a calibration on the lg, over in the c9 calibration thread, some people have reported significant improvements.
The problem is professional calibrators are not readily available / limited in my area. Found two recently. One was very affordable but not highly recommended in this forum.
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post #85 of 185 Old 04-30-2019, 12:27 PM
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I just purchased a 2018 LG OLED C8 65” television. I had been intending to wait and get the 2019 (C9) model, but Costco had the C8 on sale for $2499 (the C9 is now selling for $3499). I couldn’t resist; I bought the C8.

I won’t be able to use the 2019's new Alexa feature (as I access TV through TiVo); I don’t need the C9’s AirPlay 2 (as I have AirPlay 2 via my separate Apple TV streamer; I don’t much care about HDMI 2.1 (I’m not a gamer). Really, as far as I can tell, the only incentive for me to consider the 2019 model is the improved processor — with the promise of brighter looking images and smoother gradations. But that doesn’t seem close to a $1000 benefit. I can afford to pay the extra money, but I don’t want to waste it on what seems a relatively minor improvement.

Regardless, I am still debating. I have 90 days to exchange the C8 for a C9. As of now, I am solidly leaning towards keeping the C8. Wondering if others here might have a different take — and push me the other way.
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post #86 of 185 Old 04-30-2019, 03:28 PM
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Replication will start in a week or two.

Where are they on the new Cal-Man Home that was to be released in April? Last day of April and nothing.

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post #87 of 185 Old 04-30-2019, 07:20 PM
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Costco Deal

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Originally Posted by mfiman View Post
I just purchased a 2018 LG OLED C8 65” television. I had been intending to wait and get the 2019 (C9) model, but Costco had the C8 on sale for $2499 (the C9 is now selling for $3499). I couldn’t resist; I bought the C8.

I won’t be able to use the 2019's new Alexa feature (as I access TV through TiVo); I don’t need the C9’s AirPlay 2 (as I have AirPlay 2 via my separate Apple TV streamer; I don’t much care about HDMI 2.1 (I’m not a gamer). Really, as far as I can tell, the only incentive for me to consider the 2019 model is the improved processor — with the promise of brighter looking images and smoother gradations. But that doesn’t seem close to a $1000 benefit. I can afford to pay the extra money, but I don’t want to waste it on what seems a relatively minor improvement.

Regardless, I am still debating. I have 90 days to exchange the C8 for a C9. As of now, I am solidly leaning towards keeping the C8. Wondering if others here might have a different take — and push me the other way.
Just a few weeks ago Costco had the C8 65” for $1929! Maybe they will go on sale again soon as the C9’s trickle in....

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post #88 of 185 Old 05-01-2019, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by mfiman View Post
I just purchased a 2018 LG OLED C8 65” television. I had been intending to wait and get the 2019 (C9) model, but Costco had the C8 on sale for $2499 (the C9 is now selling for $3499). I couldn’t resist; I bought the C8.

I won’t be able to use the 2019's new Alexa feature (as I access TV through TiVo); I don’t need the C9’s AirPlay 2 (as I have AirPlay 2 via my separate Apple TV streamer; I don’t much care about HDMI 2.1 (I’m not a gamer). Really, as far as I can tell, the only incentive for me to consider the 2019 model is the improved processor — with the promise of brighter looking images and smoother gradations. But that doesn’t seem close to a $1000 benefit. I can afford to pay the extra money, but I don’t want to waste it on what seems a relatively minor improvement.

Regardless, I am still debating. I have 90 days to exchange the C8 for a C9. As of now, I am solidly leaning towards keeping the C8. Wondering if others here might have a different take — and push me the other way.
Other changes:
VRR (gamers only)
eARC & Dolby Atmos (if you have an audio system that supports it)
improved color volume
improved WebOS (runs smoother, plus a few more options)
seems to be better with temporary image retention
screen is less darkened for news channels that have icons, banners, etc.
possibly better at avoiding burn-in, time will tell (less relevant for non-gamers and non-news watchers)
more resolutions supported plus improved input lag at 120Hz (gamers only or for people who use tv as a monitor)
metal stand instead of plastic
improved audio (irrelevant if you use external audio)

Plus what you mentioned:
Alexa Google Assistant & Airplay 2 (redundant for you)
HDMI 2.1 (which may also benefit non-gamers in the future due to the increased bandwidth)

Probably a couple other changes, but I think that is a fairly complete list.
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post #89 of 185 Old 05-01-2019, 09:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Jon View Post
Just a few weeks ago Costco had the C8 65” for $1929! Maybe they will go on sale again soon as the C9’s trickle in....

John
My Costco is sold out of C8's now. No more price reduction coming here. And the price listed on Costco.com remains greater than what I paid. I am one of those who won't be a TV online even if it's cheaper — for fear of hassles if I need to return it. Just BB or Costco for me. So I believe the $2499 price is the bottom for me. Still, it's a fine price reduction. I'm not complaining.
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post #90 of 185 Old 05-01-2019, 09:52 AM
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Other changes:
VRR (gamers only)
eARC & Dolby Atmos (if you have an audio system that supports it)
improved color volume
improved WebOS (runs smoother, plus a few more options)
seems to be better with temporary image retention
screen is less darkened for news channels that have icons, banners, etc.
possibly better at avoiding burn-in, time will tell (less relevant for non-gamers and non-news watchers)
more resolutions supported plus improved input lag at 120Hz (gamers only or for people who use tv as a monitor)
metal stand instead of plastic
improved audio (irrelevant if you use external audio)

Plus what you mentioned:
Alexa Google Assistant & Airplay 2 (redundant for you)
HDMI 2.1 (which may also benefit non-gamers in the future due to the increased bandwidth)

Probably a couple other changes, but I think that is a fairly complete list.
Thanks for the complete list.

Looking it over, my inclination remains the same. Every item on the list is either (a) irrelevant to me (I have separate audio, I won't be using the stand, I won't be using eARC, etc.) or (b) doesn't seem to be nearly a big enough improvement to warrant $1000 (e.g., improved color volume).

Plus, the C8 has the minor advantage of having had a year to work out kinks via firmware upgrades. The C9 thread is already talking about newly discovered glitches.

And who knows? If LG comes out with a truly major overhaul in the next year or two...I can sell the C8 and be glad I paid less for it.

At least that's my thinking now. Thanks again for taking the time to reply.
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