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post #1 of 40 Old 05-01-2019, 11:56 PM - Thread Starter
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2019 vs 2016

This is split into 2 parts. The first is about picture quality today vs 2016. The second part is what’s going on with me. I ask for help.

Part one.

I have the LG E6 65”. I tried the LG C8, Sammy Q90R, Sammy Q9FN, Sony 2018 model before mid summer. A1E? I forget.

Why is it I don’t see any improvement in anything? They all look the same as my E6 except very minor difference. Mostly brighter. I don’t need brighter. My E6 is plenty bright. But it has handshake issues with my system so I want to replace it.

It seems to me TVs won’t get much better but once every 6 years or so. I am saying I don’t think they’ll improve much over the E6 for another 3 years or so at the soonest. I’m not sure why it takes so long???

Part two.

Here’s what’s going on with me.
My E6 has handshake issues with my system. I know it’s with my E6 and my theater combined. I did not have issues with the Sammy Q90R I tested for a few days. I’m not saying it’s my E6. What I am saying is my E6 combined with the rest of my system. They don’t like each other. The Sammy got along better.

So I’m wanting to replace my E6. But I’m concerned and disappointed because no current tv looks any better to me. Mind you I’ve only seen and used the Q90R of the 2019 models. And I’ve read about the others. Sony A9G, LG C9. There have been no great enhancements or improvements in the last 3 years. Only what is to me very minor changes that haven’t done anything to the picture to make it better then the E6. My eyes are different. I’m not wowed by anything. I just think TVs are ok but not amazing. That’s just me and things need to be a huuuuge improvement to make me think wow. But honestly nothing in anything makes me go wow. Everyone’s different.

So I want to replace my E6. I’m a gamer. Xbox one x and ps4 Pro. Not worried about burn in. No issues with my E6 and I’ve had it since latter half 2016 I think. I forget exactly. I watch Xfinity. Have some Blu-ray. Basically more game then tv but both equally important.

I don’t like part of the Sammy. Way to bright. Lower backlight ruin picture. Don’t auto change to game mode. Don’t tell you when content is hdr. You have to manually look. Things connected to my Anthem MRX 720. Anyway no Sammy. Color better on my E6. Don’t know why but a bit more saturated. Q90R more soft. Anyway no more Sammy talk.

Sony. No gaming features. No picture improvement over my E6. I’m talking last year. So returned it. Now 2019. No picture improvement to me I bet. Of course I haven’t seen the A9G but I’ll bet, to me, I won’t think it looks much better then my E6. Still no gaming features. 2018 had to manually change to game mode every time I played. Nu uh. Don’t want a tv where I have to do that. E6 changes to HDR Game whenever I turn on my ps4 Pro and Xbox one x. They’re connected to Anthem. I think the E6 just rememberers. So I’m not hopeful for the Sony A9G.

LG C9. No better picture then my E6. I saw it running the same built in demo as the C8. No difference to me. So I’m betting I won’t notice an improvement. But it is LG so it pop up telling you HDR. Sony and Sammy do not. Anyway. I’m concerned the C9 will have handshake issues being it’s still LG.

I don’t know what to do. Why get a new tv if it’s no better to me even if it’s more stable with my system? Why not just keep my E6 even with handshake problems that I hate? Keep a 2019 tv if it’s the same picture then my E6 and it’s more stable?

Member others can notice improvements and maybe I wouldn’t. Or I could and others won’t. Everyone is different. But I just don’t know what to do. I’m scared because I return most all the TVs I try and I hate doing that. I don’t want to get in trouble and not be able to return. I am not trying to abuse any company etc.

Maybe if I don't see much improvement in picture I can live with the handshake issues on my E6. But when they happen I get upset. I just don’t know. It’s like I can’t make a decision and I can’t.
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post #2 of 40 Old 05-02-2019, 02:31 AM
 
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TBH, the core technology in oled HASN'T changed since 2016, no matter what improvements people keep citing. The core technology remains the same, the improvements talked about result from better and more optimized processing that improves motion, gradient handling, upscaling, tone mapping etc. But these differences are only those that 'videophile eyes' would pick up mostly, if i took my mom to a store to see a B6 and compare to a c8 or c9, she would say they look about the same with the c8 or c9 looking slightly more bright side by side. If you are expecting to go 'omg wow' coming from a B6, that kind of technological leap hasn't happened until now. Since you have already seen a c9, you might look into seeing a sony a9f or a9g, it is not the same sony model that you saw and returned (which must be the A8f or A1e), A9 is the best sony oled yet and you might like it a little over the B6 but again no groundbreaking leap.

Problem is sometimes the expectations are too high (want to be blown away) and subtle differences dont tend to impress. I too find myself in the same boat lately. Will have to wait for a new oled technology or micro led in few years to be completely blown away over currently existing technologies.

Last edited by Menarini; 05-02-2019 at 02:36 AM.
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post #3 of 40 Old 05-02-2019, 04:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
TBH, the core technology in oled HASN'T changed since 2016, no matter what improvements people keep citing. The core technology remains the same, the improvements talked about result from better and more optimized processing that improves motion, gradient handling, upscaling, tone mapping etc. But these differences are only those that 'videophile eyes' would pick up mostly, if i took my mom to a store to see a B6 and compare to a c8 or c9, she would say they look about the same with the c8 or c9 looking slightly more bright side by side. If you are expecting to go 'omg wow' coming from a B6, that kind of technological leap hasn't happened until now. Since you have already seen a c9, you might look into seeing a sony a9f or a9g, it is not the same sony model that you saw and returned (which must be the A8f or A1e), A9 is the best sony oled yet and you might like it a little over the B6 but again no groundbreaking leap.

Problem is sometimes the expectations are too high (want to be blown away) and subtle differences dont tend to impress. I too find myself in the same boat lately. Will have to wait for a new oled technology or micro led in few years to be completely blown away over currently existing technologies.
That all makes sense. I have the E6. I only saw the C9 built in Demo video at the store. The Jeep going through the water. The sound demo in it on the C8 was cool via the C8 speakers.
I’m interested in the Sony but not enough to want to buy it as I am right now. Manually change to game mode every time I play and back to for movies mode is just stupid to me and all TVs should automatically change to game mode and back. No idea how the A9G picture is but if it won’t auto change to game then I know already it won’t be a big enough leap to want it. But of course I haven’t seen it. Just read it’s very similar to last years which I tried.

I ordered the C9. Saw the digital trends video review on it and it sounds like it might be ok. But I am still concerned it being LG and my E6 doesn’t get along with my system. Or my system don’t get along with my E6. I dunno.

I’m just very frustrated decisions are so hard for me. And I’m big time disappointed that there haven’t been big improvements yet to picture quality.
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post #4 of 40 Old 05-02-2019, 08:33 AM
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Thanks for the posts which confirm for e6 owners that only marginal improvements have been made in 17,18 and 19. And I enjoy having 3D.
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post #5 of 40 Old 05-02-2019, 09:33 AM
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It seems to me the OP needs to troubleshoot the "handshaking" issues before buying a new TV. There has been marginal improvements in OLED PQ since 2016, if there are no issues with the picture quality it's not worth buying a new TV.
If the OP wants help with the handshaking issues he needs to describe them in detail and what he's tried to resolve them. It's pointless to ask the community for advice if buying a C9 will fix the issues with the C6 when there is zero information about the issues.
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post #6 of 40 Old 05-02-2019, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Postmoderndesign View Post
Thanks for the posts which confirm for e6 owners that only marginal improvements have been made in 17,18 and 19. And I enjoy having 3D.
So glad I got my B6 a few years back. I'm tempted to buy a new model each year after the CES report, but there doesn't seem to be any reason to!

Maybe 2020?

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post #7 of 40 Old 05-02-2019, 10:22 AM
 
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Plz dont get me wrong with what i said about improvements, to videophiles the processing improvements on the newer models will reveal a difference in many areas, which would warrant an upgrade to many (those who dont care about losing 3d), what i only said was those improvements won't be on the "blows a B6 out of the water" level. it's still an oled based on the same core technology.
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post #8 of 40 Old 05-02-2019, 03:14 PM
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I buy a new TV every 6 years in the HD era.* I am always delighted by the massive upgrade this provides.

It's hard to imagine being anywhere near as satisfied with a 3 year upgrade cycle.

Others will disagree. I will note that once they do the more frequent buying, they also have to believe they did the right thing. That doesn't mean they are delusional, just that they are clearly willing and able to see the subtle changes of 3 years as "massive" in their own eyes.

Your mileage may vary.

* My current TV is 7 years old. This will be corrected soon.
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post #9 of 40 Old 05-02-2019, 03:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by obveron View Post
It seems to me the OP needs to troubleshoot the "handshaking" issues before buying a new TV. There has been marginal improvements in OLED PQ since 2016, if there are no issues with the picture quality it's not worth buying a new TV.
If the OP wants help with the handshaking issues he needs to describe them in detail and what he's tried to resolve them. It's pointless to ask the community for advice if buying a C9 will fix the issues with the C6 when there is zero information about the issues.
I agree. Could be a simple matter of changing the HDMI cable. I went through several before the handshake/connection was reliable. Also the HDMI cable might be putting twisting pressure on the input. Either at the TV point or some other point. Receiver, player...etc.

For folks to truly see a noticeable improvement in PQ from 2016 Oled's to something...probably going to have to wait for 8k Oleds to become affordable. Maybe another 2ish years.
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post #10 of 40 Old 05-02-2019, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post
I’m a gamer. Xbox one x and ps4 Pro. Not worried about burn in. No issues with my E6 and I’ve had it since latter half 2016 I think. I forget exactly. I watch Xfinity. Have some Blu-ray. Basically more game then tv but both equally important.
That alone should be more than enough reason to make the C9 worth it since the majority of the benefits in the 2019 models are particularly beneficial for gaming:

  • HDMI 2.1 (4k 120Hz...though the lack of 2.1 sources currently means we're limited to interlaced 4k120Hz via CRU)
  • variable refresh rate (not FreeSync though, only the official HDMI-spec VRR like on the Xbox)
  • low input lag (without HDR it's 13ms for 60Hz and 7ms for 120Hz, with HDR we're uncertain)

Also the addition of eARC means you can take advantage of several of these gaming-optimized features without worry about your receiver not supporting them or introducing additionally latency and such.
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post #11 of 40 Old 05-02-2019, 04:10 PM
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I buy a new TV every 6 years in the HD era.* I am always delighted by the massive upgrade this provides.
Others will disagree. I will note that once they do the more frequent buying, they also have to believe they did the right thing. That doesn't mean they are delusional, just that they are clearly willing and able to see the subtle changes of 3 years as "massive" in their own eyes.
I mostly do an annual upgrade cadence, with occasional gap years where there really isn't any improvement, or even a degradation (in 2013, the Moth Eye filter got dropped, WOLED wasn't out yet, and the first 4K had no fully featured 4K input).

I don't expect to get a massive upgrade from it - just to keep narrow the gap between the PQ I get and the best PQ one can realistically get. Plus, it's fun to be among the first to check out the new features.
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post #12 of 40 Old 05-02-2019, 10:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by obveron View Post
It seems to me the OP needs to troubleshoot the "handshaking" issues before buying a new TV. There has been marginal improvements in OLED PQ since 2016, if there are no issues with the picture quality it's not worth buying a new TV.
If the OP wants help with the handshaking issues he needs to describe them in detail and what he's tried to resolve them. It's pointless to ask the community for advice if buying a C9 will fix the issues with the C6 when there is zero information about the issues.
I have never mentioned anything asking if any tv will fix my handshake issues. And I’m not going to post about trying to solve it with my E6 because I have already gone through hell last year trouble shooting everything. And I mentioned the Sammy and my system had no handshake issues. So I need a new tv for stability with my system.

That’s your opinion on what is and is not worth buying. You’re different. I’m different. This is one thing I’m still struggling with as I even said. Is it worth it or not when the picture will be the same. Or just live with my handshake problems.

God bless you.
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post #13 of 40 Old 05-02-2019, 10:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
Plz dont get me wrong with what i said about improvements, to videophiles the processing improvements on the newer models will reveal a difference in many areas, which would warrant an upgrade to many (those who dont care about losing 3d), what i only said was those improvements won't be on the "blows a B6 out of the water" level. it's still an oled based on the same core technology.
I have the E6. But then the E6 and B6 have the same picture so I guess it’s cool.
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post #14 of 40 Old 05-03-2019, 06:32 AM
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So glad I got my B6 a few years back. I'm tempted to buy a new model each year after the CES report, but there doesn't seem to be any reason to!

Maybe 2020?
B6 owner here as well, still think its a great set overall. I originally said to myself I would likely get a C9 sometime this year, but I decided I will wait till 2020 to see what's on offer, by then the likes of Sony/Panasonic... should also have HDMI 2.1, thats not the only reason I would buy, but it is something I want in a new TV, and this spec being limited to just the LG this year I think its wise too wait a little longer.
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post #15 of 40 Old 05-03-2019, 08:18 AM
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I have never mentioned anything asking if any tv will fix my handshake issues. And I’m not going to post about trying to solve it with my E6 because I have already gone through hell last year trouble shooting everything. And I mentioned the Sammy and my system had no handshake issues. So I need a new tv for stability with my system.

That’s your opinion on what is and is not worth buying. You’re different. I’m different. This is one thing I’m still struggling with as I even said. Is it worth it or not when the picture will be the same. Or just live with my handshake problems.

God bless you.
Well you seemed puzzled if the new C9 would even fix your handshaking issue being it is still a LG. To be fair I don't know what is the point of this thread other than to ask others for their opinion, it's fine if you aren't interested in mine.
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post #16 of 40 Old 05-03-2019, 02:03 PM
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I have a B6, and my reason for upgrading is to go from 65" to 77". The 77" was $15K+ a few years ago (even the 65" B6 was $6K+ when it came out).
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post #17 of 40 Old 05-04-2019, 01:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Well you seemed puzzled if the new C9 would even fix your handshaking issue being it is still a LG. To be fair I don't know what is the point of this thread other than to ask others for their opinion, it's fine if you aren't interested in mine.
Hi. I did sound like I’m puzzled if the C9 will be stable with my system. I just didn’t ask. That’s all. And I’m truly sorry if I sounded upset at you or that I don’t want your feedback. Please forgive me. I would like everyone input.

My main reason for posting was to discuss why TVs don’t seem to be much better today then 3 years ago. I am genuinely curious. I’m genuinely interested in learning about this stuff. But I also wanted to share what I’m going through and it’s nice when people can provide calm pleasant nice feedback.

I do agree with everything everyone has said. You too. I’m just upset that TVs today don’t look better then my E6, to me. And I’m upset my E6 and system don’t get along. I find it ridiculous that companies can’t make better looking TVs every year. Or even every few years. They are supposed to be experts and I just find it really stupid. Just my opinion.

The one big thing for me is how to connect everything to C9 and have audio go to my Anthem and have Anthem ui still. I plan to connect consoles direct to tv for ALLM. But not if that means I’ll lose my Anthem ui.
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post #18 of 40 Old 05-04-2019, 12:39 PM
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At this point I still feel like the only major reason to upgrade my B6 is to go from 55" to 65"/77". All the upgrades over the years still feel incremental. Not a bad thing, the B6 is just a really good TV.
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post #19 of 40 Old 05-07-2019, 11:51 AM
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First can I suggest rather then being upset that "TV todays don't look better then my e6", be happy that your e6 has been such a value? The fact that your 3 year old tv technology has not been leap frog by advancements seems like a great thing to me.

Second, it seems the poster's point about "reviewing what you have done to address the handshake issue" to the community experts could be helpful fixing your current situation while educating others here from your issues. I for one would be quite interested in what may be a fault.

Quote:
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Hi. I did sound like I’m puzzled if the C9 will be stable with my system. I just didn’t ask. That’s all. And I’m truly sorry if I sounded upset at you or that I don’t want your feedback. Please forgive me. I would like everyone input.

My main reason for posting was to discuss why TVs don’t seem to be much better today then 3 years ago. I am genuinely curious. I’m genuinely interested in learning about this stuff. But I also wanted to share what I’m going through and it’s nice when people can provide calm pleasant nice feedback.

I do agree with everything everyone has said. You too. I’m just upset that TVs today don’t look better then my E6, to me. And I’m upset my E6 and system don’t get along. I find it ridiculous that companies can’t make better looking TVs every year. Or even every few years. They are supposed to be experts and I just find it really stupid. Just my opinion.

The one big thing for me is how to connect everything to C9 and have audio go to my Anthem and have Anthem ui still. I plan to connect consoles direct to tv for ALLM. But not if that means I’ll lose my Anthem ui.
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post #20 of 40 Old 05-07-2019, 12:11 PM - Thread Starter
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First can I suggest rather then being upset that "TV todays don't look better then my e6", be happy that your e6 has been such a value? The fact that your 3 year old tv technology has not been leap frog by advancements seems like a great thing to me.

Second, it seems the poster's point about "reviewing what you have done to address the handshake issue" to the community experts could be helpful fixing your current situation while educating others here from your issues. I for one would be quite interested in what may be a fault.
Agreed on be happy with the picture I get.

I don’t want to go into it about the handshake issues. It’s the tv. I don’t want to discuss it because I’ve done it all. I’ve gone through hell when I had NAD T187 and still have the issue and I have the Anthem MRX 720. Ill go into it briefly. But I am not going to trouble shoot anymore and I’ll explain why.

First. I started this thread mainly to talk about why TVs today don’t have a better picture then my E6. Differences yes. To my eyes not better. So I thought this would be a nice conversation between us all. Why TVs today don’t look much better. And it’s bern answered above to my satisfaction with the answer. It makes sense. But I still want to talk with everyone about this. It’s fun and interesting and gives me something to do. I love discussing TVs and home theater.

I had the NAD T187 with 4K card. NAD T977 amp. Ps4 Pro. Xbox one x. Xfinity 1080p box. E6. Many different certified hdmi cables. Even an EDID Minder.

When changing input to consoles I sometimes got no video but audio. Screen would be snowy at times. Flickering screen. Ps4 Pro was horrible. More handshake issues then Xbox or Xfinity. Anyway. I talked to a high up NAD person. I said direct to tv no issue. Through nad issue. I never had anything direct to tv more then an hr or so though. So to me that don’t mean anything. I’d have no issues through nad for hrs or days and then issues like crazy. NAD gave me test firmware that didn’t fix. My salesman who is a good friend bought for me an EDID Minder. Not cheap. Helped but not fix. He loaned me transparent hdmi cables. These are very expensive. I know cost means nothing. I know about hdmi cables at least to me don’t look or sound different. Even an audio quest active cable. I tried mono price certified and other cables etc. Nothing fixed. So I sold my NAD amp and processor. Got the Anthem MRX 720. Handshake better but not fixed. Nothing fixed it. The only thing I did not do was change the tv. So I bought the Samsung Q90R 65”. No handshake problems. But that tv is as I say above. Now I’m hoping the C9 I ordered will work more stable then my E6.
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post #21 of 40 Old 05-09-2019, 09:27 AM - Thread Starter
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Welp. Installed C9 yesterday.
Darker then my E6 in expert dark default settings. White text darker on Xfinity ui. Don’t get it.
Worse motion then my E6 when C9 in technicolor default settings. Horrible motion on C9 in technicolor default.

Just barely any difference in expert bright and dark on C9. Weird.

Exact same picture as my E6. HDR slightly brighter on C9 when gaming. Same motion on both TVs when gaming. Not bad .
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post #22 of 40 Old 05-09-2019, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post
Welp. Installed C9 yesterday.
Darker then my E6 in expert dark default settings. White text darker on Xfinity ui. Don’t get it.
Worse motion then my E6 when C9 in technicolor default settings. Horrible motion on C9 in technicolor default.

Just barely any difference in expert bright and dark on C9. Weird.

Exact same picture as my E6. HDR slightly brighter on C9 when gaming. Same motion on both TVs when gaming. Not bad .

same BS dark screen banding issues i'm guessing too?

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post #23 of 40 Old 05-09-2019, 01:35 PM - Thread Starter
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same BS dark screen banding issues i'm guessing too?
Jail bars? Nope. Of all the OLEDs I’ve tried I’ve never had any.
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post #24 of 40 Old 05-09-2019, 02:12 PM
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Jail bars? Nope. Of all the OLEDs I’ve tried I’ve never had any.

Thats good to know, out of all the great things these panels can do, that has to be the biggest turn off IMO

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post #25 of 40 Old 05-09-2019, 02:49 PM
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With black frame insertion, motion should be better on the C9 than the previous models.

Having fun playing the new mobile game Volley Village
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post #26 of 40 Old 05-09-2019, 02:53 PM
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With black frame insertion, motion should be better on the C9 than the previous models.
Only if they fix it. Right now it is identical to the 2018 BFI as far as I understood it.

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post #27 of 40 Old 05-09-2019, 08:25 PM - Thread Starter
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BFI sucks as it flickers and way too dark. Anyway. The E6 does have tone mapping. On brighter. Off not. HDR. If it’s not tone map then what am I thinking of?

Any set I’ve tried and I’ve tried over 15 since 2016. Any setting enabled for motion has always made motion worse. So I don’t enable motion stuff.
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post #28 of 40 Old 01-16-2020, 02:59 PM
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Issues over ARC?

Related to the handshake issue...

My B6 would not play nice with my Onkyo receiver when connected via the ARC-enabled HDMI port. If I wanted to use ARC, I had to turn on CEC, which reeked havoc when trying do some basic actions from my remote like turning the system on and off.

Does anyone know if ARC can be used on the 2019 model with enabling CEC? Interestingly, the owners manual mentions nothing about ARC or CEC.
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post #29 of 40 Old 01-16-2020, 03:30 PM
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These posts have been quite revealing! I'm decided to upgrade from my beloved 65" LG B6 to a 77" OLED tv. I was expecting also an improvement over what I think are not-so-bright in general (but worse in HDR and DV) images from my B6 in my next OLED tv as well as being able to eliminate the black crushing I experience from time to time. The image of my B6 is so good they only think I think is missing is being BRIGHTER.

It comes as a surprise to me that even the LG 9 series OLED tvs aren't bright enough to make a noticeable difference from my B6. Should I expect a solution in the CX line or should I buy, instead, the 77" Sony A9G for seeing some improvements/differences in other areas than my B6, neither the C9 or the CX would provide? I'M NOT PLANNING TO GAME on the new TV, at least not PC games.

What do you recommend me to do? I don't know if I want to be in the "waiting game" for the 2020 models...!
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post #30 of 40 Old 01-16-2020, 04:13 PM
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I guess it's all about the features that are important to you. Personally I couldn't imaging going back to my 2016 OLED. That said, I don't think I'll have a reason to upgrade for at least 2-3 more years with my current wants/needs.
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