Are you waiting for 2020 to buy a new OLED? - Page 12 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #331 of 388 Old 10-06-2019, 11:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Ice Cold View Post
So I’️ve been away for a while, and can’️t read all the pages, has LG given up on HDMI 2.1 on the C9 why haven’️t they fully implemented it yet ?

On a side note I may just buy a 55” C9 since LG Electronics recently ordered LG Display to cut OLED production to keep OLED prices high.
Not true.

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post #332 of 388 Old 10-07-2019, 11:54 AM
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Originally Posted by kokishin View Post
...LG Display has added more OLED panel production capacity with the opening of the new China plant.

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/...081601186.html
China plants increasing production? Not happening, apparently LGD is not going to increase production at all to keep prices high next year. Essentially, LG didn't sell enough OLEDs so is NOT going to ramp up China plant production to prevent further price drops and hit to margins. FOMO addressed this in his observation of the same thing with links to articles etc...
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post #333 of 388 Old 10-07-2019, 12:11 PM
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Oled tvs soon the entry tv tech for people when micro LED n QD tvs gets more matured.

Lg W8 65" Wall paper oled tv. Sources Oppo 203. Panasonic UB9000. Apple 4K tv. Xbox one x.
Lg E6 65" 3D oled tv... Sorce Oppo 103D
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post #334 of 388 Old 10-09-2019, 08:26 PM
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If you go to BBY in a white shirt and are in the bright show floor (not magnolia area), you will see yourself clearly in the OLEDs and will be stunned by the excellent reflection handling of the Q90/Q80. Since most demo content isn't a side-by-side star field in a dark room, this major noticable show floor difference in reflections might be a large factor in Samsung's sales improvement.
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post #335 of 388 Old 10-09-2019, 09:40 PM
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Being that tomorrow is my last day to return my C9 and we don't have any 4K/120hz & G-Sync Compatability yet, it looks like I'll be waiting until 2020 now! Hope we see some worthwhile improvements next year.


I'm mostly hoping for further improvements in pixel lifespan/burn-in resistance, smaller screen sizes and a 120hz BFI mode. Anything else will be icing on the cake.

Last edited by Karbon Kyle; 10-09-2019 at 10:19 PM.
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post #336 of 388 Old 10-09-2019, 09:55 PM
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I was going to wait until 2020 that was my plan. I made it 3 weeks with that plan then broke down and ordered a 77a9g.
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post #337 of 388 Old 10-10-2019, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8KCRT View Post
China plants increasing production? Not happening, apparently LGD is not going to increase production at all to keep prices high next year. Essentially, LG didn't sell enough OLEDs so is NOT going to ramp up China plant production to prevent further price drops and hit to margins. FOMO addressed this in his observation of the same thing with links to articles etc...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRWGfXpyk0c

So because some weird (to be nice) guy that no one has heard of puts up a YouTube video saying it - that makes it true...

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post #338 of 388 Old 10-10-2019, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 8KCRT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kokishin View Post
...LG Display has added more OLED panel production capacity with the opening of the new China plant.

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/...081601186.html
China plants increasing production? Not happening, apparently LGD is not going to increase production at all to keep prices high next year. Essentially, LG didn't sell enough OLEDs so is NOT going to ramp up China plant production to prevent further price drops and hit to margins. FOMO addressed this in his observation of the same thing with links to articles etc...
That guy is pretty much of an idiot. It’s price negotiation season and LGE regrets the WOLED ‘price up’ they accepted from LGD a year ago.

So this year, they want ‘price down’ and will hold 2020 volumes flat unless they get what they want.

LGE has no say/control over what LGD produces and at most, can refuse to take panels unless LGD sells at prices they are happy with.

Vizio becoming a customer will represent a sea-change here in the US market. LGE has always been the bargain-priced WOKED TV brand but Vizio is likely to be pricing entry-level WOLEDs far below the prices offered by LGE.

So while it is possible that cheaper WOLEDs from LGE may take longer of represent a slower price decline than had been hoped based on panel production volume increases alone, cheaper WOLED TVs are coming.

The only question is how quickly will Vizio be able to commit to LGE-level volumes (at least for the US market)...
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post #339 of 388 Old 10-10-2019, 03:37 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
That guy is pretty much of an idiot. It’s price negotiation season and LGE regrets the WOLED ‘price up’ they accepted from LGD a year ago.

So this year, they want ‘price down’ and will hold 2020 volumes flat unless they get what they want.

LGE has no say/control over what LGD produces and at most, can refuse to take panels unless LGD sells at prices they are happy with.

Vizio becoming a customer will represent a sea-change here in the US market. LGE has always been the bargain-priced WOKED TV brand but Vizio is likely to be pricing entry-level WOLEDs far below the prices offered by LGE.

So while it is possible that cheaper WOLEDs from LGE may take longer of represent a slower price decline than had been hoped based on panel production volume increases alone, cheaper WOLED TVs are coming.

The only question is how quickly will Vizio be able to commit to LGE-level volumes (at least for the US market)...

Glad you posted.

It appears to me the way the multiquote worked may possibly be misleading to others.

To recap, I was/am believing that LGD had upped their OLED panel capacity and LGE would hopefully get lower cost panels and thus lower their 2020 OLED TV pricing.

The other guy... never mind.

I want a 77" C20!

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post #340 of 388 Old 10-10-2019, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by xsamx View Post
Oled tvs soon the entry tv tech for people when micro LED n QD tvs gets more matured.
Here people are talking about 2020. Define "soon" in your above statement, please.

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post #341 of 388 Old 10-10-2019, 04:49 PM
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Think most is best of waiting to 2022 for Samsung QD-Oleds now thats gone official they starting to produce panels in 2021.

Lg W8 65" Wall paper oled tv. Sources Oppo 203. Panasonic UB9000. Apple 4K tv. Xbox one x.
Lg E6 65" 3D oled tv... Sorce Oppo 103D
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post #342 of 388 Old 10-10-2019, 07:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kokishin View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
That guy is pretty much of an idiot. It’️s price negotiation season and LGE regrets the WOLED ‘price up’️ they accepted from LGD a year ago.

So this year, they want ‘price down’️ and will hold 2020 volumes flat unless they get what they want.

LGE has no say/control over what LGD produces and at most, can refuse to take panels unless LGD sells at prices they are happy with.

Vizio becoming a customer will represent a sea-change here in the US market. LGE has always been the bargain-priced WOKED TV brand but Vizio is likely to be pricing entry-level WOLEDs far below the prices offered by LGE.

So while it is possible that cheaper WOLEDs from LGE may take longer of represent a slower price decline than had been hoped based on panel production volume increases alone, cheaper WOLED TVs are coming.

The only question is how quickly will Vizio be able to commit to LGE-level volumes (at least for the US market)...

Glad you posted.

It appears to me the way the multiquote worked may possibly be misleading to others.

To recap, I was/am believing that LGD had upped their OLED panel capacity and LGE would hopefully get lower cost panels and thus lower their 2020 OLED TV pricing.

The other guy... never mind.[IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/rolleyes.gif[/IMG]

I want a 77" C20!
I thought you stated this in your original post:

Quote:
Essentially, LG didn't sell enough OLEDs so is NOT going to ramp up China plant production to prevent further price drops and hit to margins.
That is what I was responding to and if you were not the author of that statement, my apologies...
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post #343 of 388 Old 10-11-2019, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
I thought you stated this in your original post:

Essentially, LG didn't sell enough OLEDs so is NOT going to ramp up China plant production to prevent further price drops and hit to margins.

That is what I was responding to and if you were not the author of that statement, my apologies...
Nope. My original post:

Quote:
Originally Posted by kokishin View Post
AIUI, LG Displays is cutting LCD panel production, not OLED panel production. If anything, LG Display has added more OLED panel production capacity with the opening of the new China plant.

http://english.chosun.com/site/data/...081601186.html

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post #344 of 388 Old 10-11-2019, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by xsamx View Post
Oled tvs soon the entry tv tech for people when micro LED n QD tvs gets more matured.
Not true.

1) Micro-LED currently start at $400,000-ish - and yes, we have forum members buying them for this price. When you pay $1M just for the theater room (walls, outfitting, etc), an extra $0.4M is quite tolerable.

If you count on a halving of the price every 3 years, which is better than what TVs have historically sustained, it will take until 2036 to reduce $0.4M down to $0.01M or less, which is as far as consumer interest generally stretches.

2) QDCF-BOLED will be a runner-up to WOLED for the first few years. Emissive QD have been experimented with in the lab, but aren't currently realistic for display applications, and aren't on major manufacturers' investment-backed roadmaps.
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post #345 of 388 Old 10-18-2019, 06:56 AM
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I may wait though I'm also considering getting a GZ950 in december with the christmas discount deals, but seeing that CES wont be far off from there and the sound issues that the GZ oleds are having, I might just wait what's announced at CES . At the panel level, i think 120hz Black Frame Insertion is almost a certainty and that benefit will come to any brand you buy. Not really interested in hdmi 2.1 right now. So maybe i'll see what successor to the gz950 is announced, and there's a rumor that the GZ2000 could get a cheaper model without the soundbar in place, so holding the money through this year instead of jumping on a deal might be the better idea. I love the dark scene rendering on the GZ over other brands and the better tone mapping balance, that's why I am eyeing a panasonic oled for my bedroom.
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post #346 of 388 Old 10-18-2019, 04:39 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post

Vizio becoming a customer will represent a sea-change here in the US market. LGE has always been the bargain-priced WOKED TV brand but Vizio is likely to be pricing entry-level WOLEDs far below the prices offered by LGE..
Can you explain why you think Vizio will be able to do that? Lower, for sure, but "far below"?
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post #347 of 388 Old 10-23-2019, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Karbon Kyle View Post
Being that tomorrow is my last day to return my C9 and we don't have any 4K/120hz & G-Sync Compatability yet, it looks like I'll be waiting until 2020 now! Hope we see some worthwhile improvements next year.


I'm mostly hoping for further improvements in pixel lifespan/burn-in resistance, smaller screen sizes and a 120hz BFI mode. Anything else will be icing on the cake.

Same here I am suspect of LGs relationship with GSYNC, I don’t think they can deliver 4K 120Hz and the HDMI 2.1 is not fully compliant. And I really want FreeSync support because both PlayStation 5 and Xbox Scarelett In 2020 are AMD based, and I think NVIDIA created this relationship with LG to prevent LG OLED to be used with Next Gen Consoles and FreeSync.
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post #348 of 388 Old 10-23-2019, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Ice Cold View Post
And I really want FreeSync support because both PlayStation 5 and Xbox Scarelett In 2020 are AMD based
The Xbox One X has an AMD GPU and can do HDMI 2.1 VRR just fine with the C9.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ice Cold View Post
, and I think NVIDIA created this relationship with LG to prevent LG OLED to be used with Next Gen Consoles and FreeSync.
LG is not going to disable VRR. The PS5 and Xbox Two can just use VRR.
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post #349 of 388 Old 10-23-2019, 08:23 AM
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If I ended up getting GZ2000, I'll probably skip TVs in year 2020.

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post #350 of 388 Old 10-23-2019, 08:24 AM
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Same here I am suspect of LGs relationship with GSYNC, I don’t think they can deliver 4K 120Hz and the HDMI 2.1 is not fully compliant. And I really want FreeSync support because both PlayStation 5 and Xbox Scarelett In 2020 are AMD based, and I think NVIDIA created this relationship with LG to prevent LG OLED to be used with Next Gen Consoles and FreeSync.
Nvidia doesn't have control over the HDMI version of VRR. It's a HDMI feature. Similarly, Freesync uses this open standard. But Nvidia is trying to get companies to get their TV/monitor certified to be working with G-Sync because it is a win-win situation. For the monitors/TV, it will look like their displays managed to meet Nvidia's high standards of getting a proper VRR implementation to get the G-Sync Compatible certification that they can use as a way to promote their product as well. But... If you notice, any monitor or TV that has G-Sync Compatible will confirm be FreeSync compatible as well. Thus, some decide to call it VRR ready and so on.

For Nvidia, their advantage is they'll get their terms such as asking the display makers to highly promote the G-Sync compatible part and push down the word Freesync from the title. Display manufacturers will then replace the word 'Freesync' with VRR.

Either way, the thing is, the hardware is there. Right now, it is hard to get the features on board when all the other devices to connect to the TV are still using HDMI 2.0. Not LG's fault.
There clearly are some kinks that need to be ironed out. HDMI 2.1 was ready a few years back yet no manufacturers have used it yet as the hardware comes with a lot of new advantages that can be exploited. Thus a lot of manufacturers are taking their time to explore this new technology especially the AVR industry who loves to put in the newest technology as quickly as possible. Yet, even for the 2019 sets that have just been released this month (for Denon at least), their AVRs still don't have HDMI 2.1 built in.

Without a proper hardware to connect to the TV, how can we even get HDMI 2.1 features? Right now, by the looks of it, there is a higher chance that the first method that can support HDMI 2.1 is a DisplayPort 1.4 to HDMI 2.1 adaptor. That is our best bet to get 4K 120Hz.

Currently, after downloading the latest Nvidia driver and updated my C9 with the latest firmware, this option has appeared on my Nvidia Control Panel. Mind you, I am using a DisplayPort 1.4 to HDMI 2.0b adaptor. So even if we are not getting a GPU with HDMI 2.1 built-in any time soon, we can still go the DP to HDMI 2.1 adaptor route to achieve 4K 120Hz. In the mean time, be assured that you currently have the best technology available at our disposal and when our players and GPUs support HDMI 2.1, our TV will be able to support all of it. We already have the 48Gbps HDMI 2.1 port. No reason why there would be any problems.
As you can see, the TV's HDMI 2.1 port is clearly ready to receive the 4K 120Hz input. Thus the option is there. Now, we just need to get the already made DP to HDMI 2.1 chipset to adaptor makers like Club3D which says it will be ready by Q1 2020. Nvidia plans to release the next GPU some time in 1H of 2020. So most likely towards the end of the 1H of 2020. So these are the things that you can use if you have the 2019 series of LG TVs before the 2020 version launches.



Dragon Age Inquisition display settings option. 4K 120Hz.

Last edited by LiLAsN; 10-23-2019 at 08:29 AM.
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post #351 of 388 Old 10-23-2019, 08:24 AM
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2020 LG C10 55” OLED

#1 . 120Hz BFI for proper motion if wanted
#2 . 20% Brighter than the C9
#3 . 30,000 hour Blue life phosphors not the 15,000 hour Blue phosphors we have now (really this is all I want)
#4 . 4 Legit HDMI 2.1 ports full spec certified (jury is still out on the C9 full compliance)
#5 . LG WebOS 5 smoother faster, apps can adapt to 4K 120Hz
#6 . New A10 Processor fully capable of handling 4K HDR at 120Hz

I’ve owned the C9 this year but returned it. Due to massive price drops. Still waiting. I have my doubts on it, but if the price is right this Black Friday I’ll pull the trigger. It’s my dream TV tried a few LCDs and I’d rather used my Old 1080p Samsung from 2013 than buy anything other than a 4K OLED. There’s no going back.
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post #352 of 388 Old 10-23-2019, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LiLAsN View Post
Nvidia doesn't have control over the HDMI version of VRR. It's a HDMI feature. Similarly, Freesync uses this open standard. But Nvidia is trying to get companies to get their TV/monitor certified to be working with G-Sync because it is a win-win situation. For the monitors/TV, it will look like their displays managed to meet Nvidia's high standards of getting a proper VRR implementation to get the G-Sync Compatible certification that they can use as a way to promote their product as well. But... If you notice, any monitor or TV that has G-Sync Compatible will confirm be FreeSync compatible as well. Thus, some decide to call it VRR ready and so on.

For Nvidia, their advantage is they'll get their terms such as asking the display makers to highly promote the G-Sync compatible part and push down the word Freesync from the title. Display manufacturers will then replace the word 'Freesync' with VRR.

Either way, the thing is, the hardware is there. Right now, it is hard to get the features on board when all the other devices to connect to the TV are still using HDMI 2.0. Not LG's fault.
There clearly are some kinks that need to be ironed out. HDMI 2.1 was ready a few years back yet no manufacturers have used it yet as the hardware comes with a lot of new advantages that can be exploited. Thus a lot of manufacturers are taking their time to explore this new technology especially the AVR industry who loves to put in the newest technology as quickly as possible. Yet, even for the 2019 sets that have just been released this month (for Denon at least), their AVRs still don't have HDMI 2.1 built in.

Without a proper hardware to connect to the TV, how can we even get HDMI 2.1 features? Right now, by the looks of it, there is a higher chance that the first adaptor that can support HDMI 2.1 is a DisplayPort 1.4 to HDMI 2.1 adaptor. That is our best bet to get 4K 120Hz.

Currently, after downloading the latest Nvidia driver and updated my C9 with the latest firmware, this option has appeared on my Nvidia Control Panel. Mind you, I am using a DisplayPort 1.4 to HDMI 2.0b adaptor. So even if we are not getting a GPU with HDMI 2.1 built-in any time soon, we can still go the HDMI 2.1 adaptor route to achieve 4K 120Hz. In the mean time, be assured that you currently have the best technology available at our disposal and when our players and GPUs support HDMI 2.1, our TV will be able to support all of it. We already have the 48Gbps HDMI 2.1 port. No reason why there would be any problems.



Dragon Age Inquisition display settings option. 4K 120Hz.
Have the ports been truly tested to deliver 48Gbps ?
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post #353 of 388 Old 10-23-2019, 08:30 AM
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Have the ports been truly tested to deliver 48Gbps ?
That, I'll have to wait for whichever device with HDMI 2.1 capability comes out first. So either a GPU or a DP 1.4 to HDMI 2.1 adaptor. But the TV is ready. But the HDMI 2.0b pipe is not. And the current DP adaptor chipset is not capable of it as well.
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post #354 of 388 Old 10-23-2019, 03:21 PM
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This late in the year. its smart to wait to se whats out at ces.
Then decide if last years are good enought for ones needs or the upcomming ones are better.
Tvs gets so outdated so fast when the New better specs ones are out.

Lg W8 65" Wall paper oled tv. Sources Oppo 203. Panasonic UB9000. Apple 4K tv. Xbox one x.
Lg E6 65" 3D oled tv... Sorce Oppo 103D
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post #355 of 388 Old 10-23-2019, 05:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post
I'm curious if anyone else is waiting and what you are hoping for in 2020 (realistically)? I'm not sure why I think I should wait until 2020 but I will have run out of patience waiting for bigger sizes to drop in price and for new panel tech to come out by then. I may go crazy and get the mid year Sony OLED but I don't know what to expect in the mid year that will get me to forgo the wait.

I own a 2016 OLED, so, 2020 will be something like midlife for the TV if nothing breaks.


There's lots of features that would be nice, but really nothing I'd consider to be a killer feature.



So I can probably live without variable refresh rate, faster frame rates, more color depth, 8K, BFI, less banding in my 3% blacks, an ATSC 3 tuner, latest HDR formats, etc, etc.
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post #356 of 388 Old 10-24-2019, 11:04 AM
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While I was not planning to buy an OLED TV this year, the moment I experienced the picture quality of an OLED TV a week ago, I immediately decided to replace my 48" Sony LED TV with a 65" LG C9 OLED TV. My only concern is about the issues plaguing the OLED display, but hopefully things should work ok I guess.
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post #357 of 388 Old 10-24-2019, 11:59 AM
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Originally Posted by barth2 View Post
Can you explain why you think Vizio will be able to do that? Lower, for sure, but "far below"?
Primarily pricing strategy. LG plays the same MSRP pricing game as Samsung and Sony. Price MSRP high and then occassionally offer sales and discounts off of those high MSRPs. In addition they support 3rd-tier online retailers to 'bleed off' excess inventory at prices below the 'official' pricing offered by Amazon, Best Buy, and other B&M retailers.

LG and Samsung TVs are often selling at '40% off' or more by Black Friday (which is the 'real' pricing).

Vizio does not play that game. They price MSRP at 'real' levels and maintain that price throughout the entire cycle (with occassional $50 discounts for Black Friday, Super Bowl, etc...).

So if your willing to go to online discounters to buy your WOLED TVs, Vizio's will probably not be much cheaper than LG equivalents by Black Friday.

But if you prefer to purchase through major retailers with good return policies like Best Buy or Amazon, Vizio WOLEDs will be priced 'far below' LG WOLEDs (especially early in the cycle while LG is charging a rediculously high early adopters tax).
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post #358 of 388 Old 10-24-2019, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by ece2k2 View Post
While I was not planning to buy an OLED TV this year, the moment I experienced the picture quality of an OLED TV a week ago, I immediately decided to replace my 48" Sony LED TV with a 65" LG C9 OLED TV. My only concern is about the issues plaguing the OLED display, but hopefully things should work ok I guess.

If you're not blown away after tweaking up the settings to the best of your abilities (aka following suggestions for the model), return it.



Don't let the hunt for flat panel perfection which goes on in this forum get you down. There's a lot of stuff most of us will never notice unless someone who knows what they're looking for showed it to us or told us how to recreate it. The key is to figure out what's really important to you.
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post #359 of 388 Old 10-26-2019, 03:20 PM
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For those waiting for an OLED capable of [email protected] input, you can already get the 55" Alienware "monitor" that uses Display Port 1.4. Kind of interesting that Dell decided not to offer any HDR support on this monitor despite using an HDR capable LG OLED panel.
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post #360 of 388 Old 10-26-2019, 03:48 PM
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For those waiting for an OLED capable of [email protected] input, you can already get the 55" Alienware "monitor" that uses Display Port 1.4. Kind of interesting that Dell decided not to offer any HDR support on this monitor despite using an HDR capable LG OLED panel.

That thing is extremely overpriced and isn't capable of HDR. They also nerfed the max luminance and I don't think it can get any brighter than something like 400nits, they did this due to fears of burn-in from people using it as a dedicated monitor, probably same deal with the lack of HDR. If it released this time in 2018 maybe it'd be justifiable but paying $4000 for one of those in late 2019 is insane IMO.
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