Are you waiting for 2020 to buy a new OLED? - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 346 Old 05-06-2019, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by boe View Post
I'm curious if anyone else is waiting and what you are hoping for in 2020 (realistically)? I'm not sure why I think I should wait until 2020 but I will have run out of patience waiting for bigger sizes to drop in price and for new panel tech to come out by then. I may go crazy and get the mid year Sony OLED but I don't know what to expect in the mid year that will get me to forgo the wait.
LG Display has presented a WOLED roadmap showing an increase in brightness from 150cd/m2 today to 200cd/m2 in 2020 and 300cd/m2 in 2022 (attached).

We don't know whether this means new WOLED panels introduced in late 2020 for 2021 TV production by OEM customers or new panels introduced late this year for 2020 TV production, but WOLED panels with higher peak brightness are coming.

The specs presented represent ABL limits on full-screen white fields and likely will wind up corresponding to a +33% and +100% (in 2022) increase accross-the-board compared to today's peak brightness levels (meaning over 1100 cd/m2 peak for 10% HDR highlights in 2020 and over 1600 cd/m2 peak in 2022).

The roadmap also shows a doubling in lifetime from 15,000 hours today to 30,000 hours in 2022 (no change for 2020) which probably also translates to a doubling of time to visible burn-in.

We know that LGD is working on more efficient long-lifetime blue emitters (blue PHOLED or blue TADF) and the change to a more efficient blue emitter almost certainly underlies the 2020 column of this roadmap.

We also know that LGD is working on top-emission, and that is likely the basis of the 2022 column of the roadmap (top-emission will result is a significant reduction in current density and hence a significant increase in WOLED lifetime and cumulative time to burn-in).

Finally, while we cannot be sure LGD will have a new WOLED stack with more efficient blue in TV production next year, we can be pretty certain that they are going to 'fix' the 120Hz BFI (240Hz Effective Refresh Rate) features they had to pull at the 11th hour from the C9. So 2020 will bring a 240Hz Effective Refresh Rate and very possibly as 240Hz Native Refresh Rate (needed to support 8K refresh at 120Hz, which everyone is working on).

And just in case you are interested in a 77" WOLED, I strongly suspect we are likelly to see another $2000 drop in launch MSRP of the 2020 77C-Series to $5000, so the 77C20 is likely to dip under $3500 by Thanksgiving 2020 (while I doubt the 77C9 dips much under $5000 this November...).
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post #32 of 346 Old 05-06-2019, 12:07 PM
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At this point, I am waiting. My plasma is still just fine and while I want to go bigger, I don't have any real reason to get something new right now.
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post #33 of 346 Old 05-06-2019, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
I'm no longer waiting past this year. But I am waiting for the 65 inch to be ~$2000.
You can get a 65C8 for under your target price today - check the Deals Thread: https://www.avsforum.com/forum/322-o...l#post57995914

Whether the 65C9 dips to $2000 before year's end is anyone's guess (65C8 with same launch MSRP of $3500 did not dip thst low this Novembet), so you may want to jump on a close-out 65C8 while they are still available...
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post #34 of 346 Old 05-07-2019, 04:13 AM
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Although I waited for HDMI for almost 2 yrs, I'm also thinking of not buying an LG Oled this year...

First, from what I see no AV Receiver will come with HDMI 2.1, maybe except the higher Denon that can be hardware upgraded... this is for me the big bummer for not getting an OLED.

Second, I'm starting to get mad with LG by skipping features on their oleds, no USB 3.x, no Gigabit Ethernet, no HDR10+ and even more important no Chromcast support when AirPlay is now supported!!! Grrrrr!!!!
Third, could 2020 be the year that LG make significant improvements on their LG line?! I mean, 17, 18 and 19 line are all just a mere upgrades from each others. I still see things not getting a big improvement over the years, like motion, volumetry etc. Kind of strange that the only manufacturer of OLED panels have worse performance than their competitors.

And the last, hope that all the other manufactures released their tvs with HDMI 2.1 (and also AV Receivers). If 2020 brings that, I might just skip LG and go to a Sony or a Philips OLED, instead of LG, because their oleds will have Android TV

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post #35 of 346 Old 05-07-2019, 06:21 AM
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I recently bought a 43" UHD LCD TV for $179. It was a Fire TV that supposedly is HDR. It's in my exercise room, so I don't care about image quality that much. I just wanted something that has Netflix and ARC to my receiver.

The picture quality is not OLED by any means, but honestly, for the price, it's not bad.

The reason I mention this is, the price of OLED will have to come down a lot to be competitive going forward. Clearly this TV isn't direct competition for OLED, but it is competition for other LCDs that are <$500, which are in competition with $700 TVs. And so on. The domino effect will ripple all the way up.
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post #36 of 346 Old 05-07-2019, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by obveron View Post
I'm in no hurry. I like my plasma. I think the only thing that would get me to upgrade is a 77" oled for less than $3000.
HA! Me too...I watch all these threads and think "man, when my Panny Plasma finally goes I'll be prepared..." course with my luck it'll be 6 mo. til black Friday and I'll have to pay retail.

The funny part is I watched GOT S.8 ep.3 "The Long Night" and was totally unaware that 75% of watchers were pulling their hair out because they couldn't see anything in low level shadow detail...my 8 yr old 5000+ hr plasma handled it like a champ! Upgrade indeed. That's what people get for walking into Best Buy and picking the brightest torch on the wall...you were warned here! (Not that OLED isn't better, but other technologies...NO!) I hope that one event causes a massive backlash against poor black level technologies...ahem!
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post #37 of 346 Old 05-07-2019, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by NintendoManiac64 View Post
I said several years ago that my "all in" point was if an OLED could tick the boxes for eARC + VRR at 4k 120Hz 4:4:4 with HDR, bonus points for input lag below 20ms (let alone below 10ms on the C9 which is just nutty!) and black frame insertion with 120Hz, and extra special bonus points if 120Hz VRR + black frame insertion could be used together.
The boxes are the same for me, although extra bonus points for a size smaller than 55" since I want to use it as a monitor. With those specs, that's a panel that will last me 10 years as a daily driver (assuming it doesn't develop crippling burn-in or lose all of its brightness by then). The 55" C9 clearly has some kinks with input lag at the moment. We definitely aren't getting VRR + BFI, and it seems very unlikely we will get 120 Hz BFI. I can't wait to see what the input lag at 4k 120 Hz 4:4:4 HDR is, I'm hoping 7 ms or maybe even less with QFT, but maybe they'll botch it. We also don't know what the VRR range is yet, it might not be usable for 60+ fps.

If the stars align and the bugs are fixed, HDMI 2.1 GPUs release, and the C9 is on sale all around November, then there is no question I'll be getting a 55" C9. Otherwise the 48" C10 is on the table.

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post #38 of 346 Old 05-07-2019, 07:28 AM
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Was gonna wait but went ahead and pulled the trigger on the 65C8 (newegg price matched at BB). Now that I have been researching in depth I am very hesitant as I don't know if the picture quality will be any better than my vt60 plasma. Don't know if the c9 will have less banding issues/better uniformity or if maybe something in 2020 will be worth the wait.
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post #39 of 346 Old 05-07-2019, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by onesolo View Post
Although I waited for HDMI for almost 2 yrs, I'm also thinking of not buying an LG Oled this year...

First, from what I see no AV Receiver will come with HDMI 2.1, maybe except the higher Denon that can be hardware upgraded... this is for me the big bummer for not getting an OLED.

Second, I'm starting to get mad with LG by skipping features on their oleds, no USB 3.x, no Gigabit Ethernet, no HDR10+ and even more important no Chromcast support when AirPlay is now supported!!! Grrrrr!!!!
Third, could 2020 be the year that LG make significant improvements on their LG line?! I mean, 17, 18 and 19 line are all just a mere upgrades from each others. I still see things not getting a big improvement over the years, like motion, volumetry etc. Kind of strange that the only manufacturer of OLED panels have worse performance than their competitors.

And the last, hope that all the other manufactures released their tvs with HDMI 2.1 (and also AV Receivers). If 2020 brings that, I might just skip LG and go to a Sony or a Philips OLED, instead of LG, because their oleds will have Android TV
Well lack of USB 3 is a bit odd, although USB2 speed is plenty for video files (but certainly a number of other brands do have USB 3 ports). I can't find any TV that exists with a gigabit ethernet port. No idea why, but no one does that. HDR10+ does not appear to serve any purpose. Chromecast is certainly nice to have, and certainly anything that is android based seems to support it. Can't be that hard for LG to add.

Some people really hate Android TV (I don't quite understand why, it seems fine to me). Certainly much better app support than LG's OS that no one else supports anymore.

HDMI 2.1 seems likely to arrive from more brands in 2020. The tests seem to be getting ready so you can actually check compliance with the standard. No idea how LG tested it given the tests for the standard aren't done yet as far as I understand it for many parts of HDMI 2.1.

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post #40 of 346 Old 05-07-2019, 09:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by onesolo View Post
Although I waited for HDMI for almost 2 yrs, I'm also thinking of not buying an LG Oled this year...

First, from what I see no AV Receiver will come with HDMI 2.1, maybe except the higher Denon that can be hardware upgraded... this is for me the big bummer for not getting an OLED.

Second, I'm starting to get mad with LG by skipping features on their oleds, no USB 3.x, no Gigabit Ethernet, no HDR10+ and even more important no Chromcast support when AirPlay is now supported!!! Grrrrr!!!!
Third, could 2020 be the year that LG make significant improvements on their LG line?! I mean, 17, 18 and 19 line are all just a mere upgrades from each others. I still see things not getting a big improvement over the years, like motion, volumetry etc. Kind of strange that the only manufacturer of OLED panels have worse performance than their competitors.

And the last, hope that all the other manufactures released their tvs with HDMI 2.1 (and also AV Receivers). If 2020 brings that, I might just skip LG and go to a Sony or a Philips OLED, instead of LG, because their oleds will have Android TV
What will you get from gig Ethernet when 100 mbit is fast enough for delivery of uncompressed BD?

The entire point of HDMI 2.1 and eARC is that you don’t need an HDMI 2.1 AVR, you connect your more advanced sources directly to the TV and stream the HD audio back to your AVR.
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post #41 of 346 Old 05-07-2019, 09:17 AM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
What will you get from gig Ethernet when 100 mbit is fast enough for delivery of uncompressed BD?

People keep saying that but it's just not fast enough for some UHD movies and they stutter and buffer at times, especially those that have a very high bitrate plus an additional dolby vision track embedded.

Also there is always some overhead so you will not get the full 100 mbit transfer rate.
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post #42 of 346 Old 05-07-2019, 09:19 AM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
What will you get from gig Ethernet when 100 mbit is fast enough for delivery of uncompressed BD?

The entire point of HDMI 2.1 and eARC is that you don’t need an HDMI 2.1 AVR, you connect your more advanced sources directly to the TV and stream the HD audio back to your AVR.
Well you still need a new enough AVR to have eARC, but it does seem like a great future proofing feature for an AVR to have.

As for BD, well by the spec a UHD BD can exceed 100Mbps. Not sure if any actual discs do.

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post #43 of 346 Old 05-07-2019, 10:21 AM
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I like my kuro, works fine, and I won't really be interested in upgrading until there's QD OLED or inkjet printed OLED from Sony/LG/Samsung. Having a smart tv would be a nice bonus buy my roku stick is alright now.

Then again if there's a 65" OLED that retails for $2k next year from Vizio, I would strongly consider that. I think those prices are 2-3 years away though.
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post #44 of 346 Old 05-07-2019, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
What will you get from gig Ethernet when 100 mbit is fast enough for delivery of uncompressed BD?

The entire point of HDMI 2.1 and eARC is that you don’t need an HDMI 2.1 AVR, you connect your more advanced sources directly to the TV and stream the HD audio back to your AVR.
Well, there are reports that eARC is only working for internal apps on the C9 and not from external HDMI sources like the PC...

Last edited by GCTuba; 05-07-2019 at 11:34 AM.
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post #45 of 346 Old 05-07-2019, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by GCTuba View Post
Well, there are reports that eARC is only working for internal apps on the C9 and not from external HDMI sources like the PC...
Rtings tests show that it passes Hd audio over eARC, internal apps don’t do HD audio.
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People keep saying that but it's just not fast enough for some UHD movies and they stutter and buffer at times, especially those that have a very high bitrate plus an additional dolby vision track embedded.

Also there is always some overhead so you will not get the full 100 mbit transfer rate.
You still don’t have an app on the TV that can handle a native 4K rip being streamed to it that I am aware of. 4K streamed content maxes out at something like 30 mbps.
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What? Even LGs standard internal media player can handle remuxxed UHD-Blu-Rays (streamed), even with Dolby Vision if it's in an mp4 container. Plex and Xplay can play those too.
So that's already 3 TV apps that can do what you claim no app can....
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post #48 of 346 Old 05-07-2019, 12:38 PM
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Depending what display you have now. I have C8 and I am going to wait till +1000 nits OLED will be available . I think they will come close to 1000 nits next year.

TV : LG OLED 65C8 [U]
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post #49 of 346 Old 05-07-2019, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
Rtings tests show that it passes Hd audio over eARC, internal apps don’t do HD audio.
They had to use an HDFury product to bypass the PC autodetection system, it couldn't be done natively. That is hardly an ideal solution and totally rules out using HDMI 2.1 and lossless audio simultaneously.
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post #50 of 346 Old 05-07-2019, 03:10 PM
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What? Even LGs standard internal media player can handle remuxxed UHD-Blu-Rays (streamed), even with Dolby Vision if it's in an mp4 container. Plex and Xplay can play those too.
So that's already 3 TV apps that can do what you claim no app can....
As far as Plex goes I know there are a lot of limitations currently on 4K playback, I don't believe that Plex playback currently supports certain color depths, Dolby Vision, etc. The capabilities tend to be very specific for direct-play capability, even using forced subtitles or certain audio/video formats tend to results in the media file needing to be transcoded in the server.

If the TVs native media player app is able to play "remuxed" UHD BDs and the stream is bit-rate starved and buffering and it's for sure due to the 100mbps limitation of the onboard hardware then that sounds like an issue for LG to address. WiFi is not ideal but if the TV supports 802.11AC then it should also be possible to do streaming over that since it supports real world rates approaching a gig.

Certainly inclusion of gigabit would be expected in 2019 but it also still adds a small cost and manufacturers are always looking to squeeze every penny out of the margins on these TVs that they can.

FWIW I don't think that the Q90R supports gigabit ethernet either and not sure that Sony's flagship OLEDs do either.

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post #51 of 346 Old 05-07-2019, 03:12 PM
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They had to use an HDFury product to bypass the PC autodetection system, it couldn't be done natively. That is hardly an ideal solution and totally rules out using HDMI 2.1 and lossless audio simultaneously.
So are you saying that EARC only doesn't work with a PC with a specific video card or doesn't work at all? Because in the owner's thread it has already been reported that HD audio is passing from BD players and other sources over EARC.

If the issue is with video cards I imagine that they will have to patch it on the PC video card drivers and/or the TV at some point.

I think people need to be a bit realistic when they immediately jump on this stuff considering that HDMI 2.1 and the feature set it supports are pretty much bleeding edge.

FWIW the LG also doesn't appear to support the XBOX one implementation of VRR so there's plenty of joy to go around in the early adopter game.
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post #52 of 346 Old 05-07-2019, 04:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
What will you get from gig Ethernet when 100 mbit is fast enough for delivery of uncompressed BD?

The entire point of HDMI 2.1 and eARC is that you don’t need an HDMI 2.1 AVR, you connect your more advanced sources directly to the TV and stream the HD audio back to your AVR.
I stream UHD to my oppo and it definitely seems to do better on gig than 100mbit. It might be when I'm doing 7.1 DTS-X but it is noticeable.
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You still don’t have an app on the TV that can handle a native 4K rip being streamed to it that I am aware of. 4K streamed content maxes out at something like 30 mbps.
Netflix which is highly compressed may max out at 30mbps but a straight conversion of a 4K to MKV with no additional loss definitely streams at much higher than that. I don't have the TV so I couldn't say about apps on it that can handle it.

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post #54 of 346 Old 05-07-2019, 05:52 PM
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So are you saying that EARC only doesn't work with a PC with a specific video card or doesn't work at all? Because in the owner's thread it has already been reported that HD audio is passing from BD players and other sources over EARC.

If the issue is with video cards I imagine that they will have to patch it on the PC video card drivers and/or the TV at some point.

I think people need to be a bit realistic when they immediately jump on this stuff considering that HDMI 2.1 and the feature set it supports are pretty much bleeding edge.

FWIW the LG also doesn't appear to support the XBOX one implementation of VRR so there's plenty of joy to go around in the early adopter game.
That's what I'm trying to figure out. We know that some TVs and receivers are supporting eARC now but maybe video cards haven't been patched to support it yet which is why it may not be working. If a firmware update or even HDMI 2.1 GPUs fixes the problem, then we're good. Unfortunately I don't have the TV or GPU to test.
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post #55 of 346 Old 05-07-2019, 06:06 PM
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I have two plasmas, retired the one from daily use (10 years old) as i was just starting to see signs of burn in on a blue screen, (the damned black bars at top and bottom). then i bought an led for a daily driver. ive been happy with all three. one of my biggest concerns has been reliability, how are they standing up? maintaining brightness, pq, stuck pixels, and still functioning. maybe it shouldnt bother me as i seem to upgrade around 7-8 years anyways, but its holding me back.
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post #56 of 346 Old 05-08-2019, 05:16 AM
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I think that everything with HDMI 2.1 is just too much in transition and I am not interested in flipping panels every few years. First of all, there is no HDMI 2.1 GPU from AMD/nVidia or console and no HDMI 2.1 soundbar.

I want two different screens:
1: 65" OLED TV 2160p120 with all HDMI 2.1 ports/features (VRR, eARC). Support for Android TV, Chromecast, FreeSync, Dolby Vision, HDR10+, Gigabit internet, ATSC 3.0, USB 3.2, and Bluetooth v5.0. Also must support 1440p120.

2: 49" or less OLED PC monitor 2160p120-144 with all HDMI 2.1/DP 1.4 ports/features and support for FreeSync and 1440p120-144.
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post #57 of 346 Old 05-09-2019, 01:17 PM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
So are you saying that EARC only doesn't work with a PC with a specific video card or doesn't work at all? Because in the owner's thread it has already been reported that HD audio is passing from BD players and other sources over EARC.

If the issue is with video cards I imagine that they will have to patch it on the PC video card drivers and/or the TV at some point.

I think people need to be a bit realistic when they immediately jump on this stuff considering that HDMI 2.1 and the feature set it supports are pretty much bleeding edge.

FWIW the LG also doesn't appear to support the XBOX one implementation of VRR so there's plenty of joy to go around in the early adopter game.
I thought someone had reported the Xbox detected VRR support from an LG C9, but from a bit more searching and reading it seems it does work but only in SDR, not HDR and supposedly LG is going to fix it.
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Len Sorensen

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post #58 of 346 Old 05-15-2019, 01:30 PM - Thread Starter
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I think subconsciously I have 1100 nits peak as some bar I want OLED to meet if not exceed.
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post #59 of 346 Old 05-15-2019, 04:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boe View Post
Netflix which is highly compressed may max out at 30mbps but a straight conversion of a 4K to MKV with no additional loss definitely streams at much higher than that.
The absolute highest bitrate I've seen was Star Wars 4K77 no-DNR at 89.7 mbps.
The runner-up is The Bridge on the River Kwai at 87 mbps.
Both are unusual and atypical, the former not even commercial. Commercial UHD-BD top out around 60 mbps.

LG had USB 3.0 on their B7-W7 series. They dropped it for some reason in newer TVs.

GBe would not be bad, but I never bothered to even connect the wire to my TV - with ac and ax wifi outpacing it, why bother?
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post #60 of 346 Old 05-16-2019, 10:09 AM
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Yes. Waiting on Top emission panels, which are hopefully coming in 2020. And lower prices on 77 and 88 inch lol.

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