Are you waiting for 2020 to buy a new OLED? - Page 4 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #91 of 158 Old 06-18-2019, 08:44 AM
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No, I'm happy with my two OLEDs. If I ever get a new one I would wait for LG Display to improve the motion resolution via new BFI algorithms. That's really the only area for improvement IMO. I couldn't care less about having more nits, OLEDs are already too bright for me. Also don't care about HDMI 2.1.

Unfortunately on the manufacturer side it seems like build quality gets worse each year. Just saw an A9G and it feels as cheap as the A8F. It literally wobbles on its stand. A8G was a step below that, on par with what LG puts out today. A1E and A9F, and some of the high end 6 series LGs, were the only ones that looked and felt like premium TVs.

Sony 55A9F
LG 55B6
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post #92 of 158 Old 06-18-2019, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by JD23 View Post
You're missing my point. I realize you are referring to 2020 and I am less than 100% confident that Sony will support HDMI 2.1 next year on mainstream TV. I think Sony will probably support HDMI 2.1 (> 50% probability), but it will likely do so in a limited fashion on less than all four HDMI ports. Sony is still releasing $3000 TVs in 2019 that do not support full bandwidth HDMI 2.0b on all four ports, so full support for HDMI 2.1 next year is unrealistic. Even the $13k Z9G only has HDMI 2.1 on a single port and does not support VRR or ALLM.
Yeah, I missed that point - I've got no idea whether Sony will support HDMI2.1 on all HDMI ports next year or not. Probably not if only one advanced HDMI port has been their modus operandi recently.

But at least one HDMI port supporting full 48 Gbps HDMI 2.1 with all the bells and whistles on their Premium TVs in 2020, that's the near-certainty I was talking about...
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post #93 of 158 Old 06-18-2019, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Yeah, I missed that point - I've got no idea whether Sony will support HDMI2.1 on all HDMI ports next year or not. Probably not if only one advanced HDMI port has been their modus operandi recently.

But at least one HDMI port supporting full 48 Gbps HDMI 2.1 with all the bells and whistles on their Premium TVs in 2020, that's the near-certainty I was talking about...
Sony will have looked at early sales on their high end sets compared to competitor (LG) product that has HDMI 2.1 and see if that feature is steering sales in any meaningful way.

There still won't be any HDMI 2.1 sources anyone cares about by early next year (game consoles) since PC use is so niche and PC also doesn't have HDMI 2.1 video cards.

It might not be until late in 2020 before anyone really cares and then Sony can sell them a 2021 model TV that has HDMI 2.1 for the PS5 and get them to upgrade, again.

There's also a decent chance that PS5 will have limited HDMI 2.1 support and that certain things (sony implementation of ALLM) will only work with Sony brand TVs. Sound stupid? Sony have done similarly stupid things in recent memory.
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post #94 of 158 Old 06-18-2019, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
Sony will have looked at early sales on their high end sets compared to competitor (LG) product that has HDMI 2.1 and see if that feature is steering sales in any meaningful way.

There still won't be any HDMI 2.1 sources anyone cares about by early next year (game consoles) since PC use is so niche and PC also doesn't have HDMI 2.1 video cards.

It might not be until late in 2020 before anyone really cares and then Sony can sell them a 2021 model TV that has HDMI 2.1 for the PS5 and get them to upgrade, again.

There's also a decent chance that PS5 will have limited HDMI 2.1 support and that certain things (sony implementation of ALLM) will only work with Sony brand TVs. Sound stupid? Sony have done similarly stupid things in recent memory.
The only problem with that supposition is that design specifications for next-generation TVs are locked-in at least 12-months prior to launch (meaning now for the 2020 generation).

A more balid point is that Sony, like LGE, designs and manufactures their own in-house SOCs and generally only develop a new-generation SOC every 2-3 years.

So while I am very confident that Sony's next SOC will support full-speed HDMI 2.1 (on at least one port ), I don't know whether their next SOC will launch in time for 2020 TVs or not before 2021...
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post #95 of 158 Old 06-18-2019, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
So while I am very confident that Sony's next SOC will support full-speed HDMI 2.1 (on at least one port )
That would be funny and sad at the same time. LG with 4 full-speed HDMI 2.1 ports and brain dead eARC and Sony with working eARC but only one 2.1 port. So in both cases you'll need to get a HDMI 2.1 AVR. Sigh.
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post #96 of 158 Old 06-18-2019, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by boe View Post
I'm curious if anyone else is waiting and what you are hoping for in 2020 (realistically)? I'm not sure why I think I should wait until 2020 but I will have run out of patience waiting for bigger sizes to drop in price and for new panel tech to come out by then. I may go crazy and get the mid year Sony OLED but I don't know what to expect in the mid year that will get me to forgo the wait.
No I am waiting for 2021 most likely because all of the changes that should occur. I am assuming top emissions, 12bit panels, ATSC 3.0 tuners and premium DV should be out in 2020. With all the expected changes the tv's should be a instant train wreck. I will wait a year for things to be ironed out and then be a buyer of a larger size 8k OLED. I am content with my E6 now.
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post #97 of 158 Old 06-18-2019, 12:10 PM
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USB 2 transfer speed maxes out around 40 megaBYTES per sec, so I guess it's plenty for 4k. 100mbps on the Ethernet port is too close for comfort, though. I know there's WiFi but I always prefer to use wired for fixed devices.
Did you try a USB to gigabit dongle? I wonder if the TVs would recognize one of those (all kinds of them under $15). I found a thread in some LG forum asking this question for WebOS, but the guy upgraded his router to fix his slow wifi instead and never tried.
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post #98 of 158 Old 06-18-2019, 01:58 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
The only problem with that supposition is that design specifications for next-generation TVs are locked-in at least 12-months prior to launch (meaning now for the 2020 generation).

A more balid point is that Sony, like LGE, designs and manufactures their own in-house SOCs and generally only develop a new-generation SOC every 2-3 years.

So while I am very confident that Sony's next SOC will support full-speed HDMI 2.1 (on at least one port ), I don't know whether their next SOC will launch in time for 2020 TVs or not before 2021...
Sony does the HDMI chipset too? That would be a bit surprising, I believe that LG is outsourcing their HDMI 2.1 chipset.

In any event we are in agreement that it's not a certainty that Sony or anyone else will deliver HDMI 2.1 features in their 2020 sets.... although Sony would have quite a bit of egg on their face if they launch PS 5 next fall and don't have any TVs immediately ready to support high frame-rate 4K gaming.
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post #99 of 158 Old 06-18-2019, 04:37 PM
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Sony does the HDMI chipset too? That would be a bit surprising, I believe that LG is outsourcing their HDMI 2.1 chipset.
You believe wrong. LGE licensed the HDMI2.1 IP ftom Synopsis and designed it into their Alpha-9 Gen-2 processor (in-house SOC): https://news.synopsys.com/2018-09-18...ng-Experiences

And yes, LGE is taking a page out of Sony's playbook in designing in-house custom SOCs for their Premium TVs - Sony has been doing so since at least the X1 Extreme they launched in 2015 (recent):https://www.techradar.com/news/sony-x1-ultimate
and 2015: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300015843.html

Quote:
In any event we are in agreement that it's not a certainty that Sony or anyone else will deliver HDMI 2.1 features in their 2020 sets.... although Sony would have quite a bit of egg on their face if they launch PS 5 next fall and don't have any TVs immediately ready to support high frame-rate 4K gaming.
Whenever Sony launches their next in-house SOC, it will support full-bandwidth HDMI2.1 (Sony will catch up LGE).
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post #100 of 158 Old 06-18-2019, 05:52 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
You believe wrong. LGE licensed the HDMI2.1 IP ftom Synopsis and designed it into their Alpha-9 Gen-2 processor (in-house SOC): https://news.synopsys.com/2018-09-18...ng-Experiences



And yes, LGE is taking a page out of Sony's playbook in designing in-house custom SOCs for their Premium TVs - Sony has been doing so since at least the X1 Extreme they launched in 2015 (recent):https://www.techradar.com/news/sony-x1-ultimate

and 2015: https://www.prnewswire.com/news-rele...300015843.html







Whenever Sony launches their next in-house SOC, it will support full-bandwidth HDMI2.1 (Sony will catch up LGE).


I just remember seeing Vincent Teoh’s photo of the info on the 2.1 chipset and thought another manufacturer name was listed.

Simple mistake.


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post #101 of 158 Old 06-18-2019, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Whenever Sony launches their next in-house SOC, it will support full-bandwidth HDMI2.1 (Sony will catch up LGE).

I agree with you here. I am thinking that it is possible it won't be until 2021 because the X1 Ultimate was first released last year and Sony likes to get a few years out of each chipset.
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post #102 of 158 Old 06-20-2019, 02:31 PM
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just bought the A9G

I waffled for weeks between the C9 and A9G, and ultimately my preference for Sony's PQ won out. I bought a separate QLED for gaming. Waiting for 2.1 is pointless without enough devices and source materials in the near future - it will be relevant in 2022 and I can upgrade again to 8K and HDMI 2.1 in 3 to 4 years.
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post #103 of 158 Old 06-20-2019, 08:20 PM
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Originally Posted by 8KCRT View Post
I waffled for weeks between the C9 and A9G, and ultimately my preference for Sony's PQ won out. I bought a separate QLED for gaming. Waiting for 2.1 is pointless without enough devices and source materials in the near future - it will be relevant in 2022 and I can upgrade again to 8K and HDMI 2.1 in 3 to 4 years.

I came to a similar conclusion. If the lack of HDMI 2.1 on the A9G really does become a major limitation in the next couple of years, I can upgrade to a TV with guaranteed full HDMI 2.1 support in 2021. PS5 won't be out until late 2020, so it's 18 months until HDMI 2.1 will potentially be relevant to me.
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post #104 of 158 Old 06-20-2019, 08:24 PM
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I came to a similar conclusion. If the lack of HDMI 2.1 on the A9G really does become a major limitation in the next couple of years, I can upgrade to a TV with guaranteed full HDMI 2.1 support in 2021. PS5 won't be out until late 2020, so it's 18 months until HDMI 2.1 will potentially be relevant to me.


That’s a legitimate strategy that I also considered.

However resale value of TVs is terrible. I’d rather buy one $5,000 tv to last me the next 5-6 years, not two.


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post #105 of 158 Old 06-21-2019, 05:19 AM
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I am waiting for my plasma to break. Then if I am still around I will take a look at replacement options. There is no market for a plasma but it works very well for me. And it is too big for my trash can.

Yep...just had my Panny calibrated again and it looks better than ever. Hard to replace a display that looks so good. Maybe if the price of the 77A9G drops below $4k at the end of the year.


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post #106 of 158 Old 06-21-2019, 05:28 AM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
That’s a legitimate strategy that I also considered.

However resale value of TVs is terrible. I’d rather buy one $5,000 tv to last me the next 5-6 years, not two.


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I agree. The problem for me is, I arguably waited too long to upgrade. Now that 2.1 and likely 8k (less of a concern) is around the corner for Sony, it’s hard to make a purchase. Is 2.1 necessary? No, especially if not gaming on this tv, but it‘s still hard to overlook if your one that keeps tvs 5-7 years. That puts me in a holding pattern until the 2020 model, which in all likelihood will have an improved panel, which is more important.
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post #107 of 158 Old 06-21-2019, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
That’s a legitimate strategy that I also considered.

However resale value of TVs is terrible. I’d rather buy one $5,000 tv to last me the next 5-6 years, not two.


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I'm definitely not going to sell my A9G if I buy another TV in a couple of years, as I have enough other rooms that can fit a 65" comfortably. I previously bought an X930E 18 months ago and then moved it downstairs to make room for the A9G. Even my seven-year-old plasma, which is now in a bedroom, is still a perfectly good TV, though not used for primary viewing anymore.


If I bought a 77", I would have been more concerned about future proofing, but I got my 65" A9G for a very good price ($3k), so it is not a major issue for me, as I could buy another 65" in two years and only have paid roughly the same amount combined as the cost of a single 2019 77". Even if HDMI 2.1 and other features released in the next couple of years do offer significant benefits, all of the OLEDs from the past couple of years will still be excellent TVs and will not instantly turn into paperweights. Based on many rumors, it seems that significant panel upgrades will not occur in 2020, so everyone playing the waiting game will likely have to delay their purchase until at least 2021.
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post #108 of 158 Old 06-26-2019, 12:56 PM
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Another good point I grappled with!

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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
That’s a legitimate strategy that I also considered.
However resale value of TVs is terrible. I’d rather buy one $5,000 tv to last me the next 5-6 years, not two.
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I've come to the conclusion that it's truly pointless to attempt to re-sell any AV equipment unless they are Mac amplifiers (or similarly desirable boutique brand) so my original plan to buy the 77" OLED now has morphed into a "slightly" more expensive 2 stage strategy over 3 years:
Stage 1: get a good but smaller 65" OLED now
Stage 2: add the larger 77" or 85" 8K OLED when prices drop below $8,000

At least this is what I tell myself so that I don't feel like I've backed myself into a corner with buying an OLED today. I originally planned on getting the 75" Vizio Quantum PX now and adding the 8K OLED later, but my wife was pretty adamant: "I refuse to watch inferior PQ for the next 3 years in the hopes that one day you would upgrade the TV. Get the 65" OLED, and I wouldn't mind you moving it into the bedroom when you upgrade to the larger OLED later." That actually made a lot of sense!
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post #109 of 158 Old 06-26-2019, 01:00 PM
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...Even my seven-year-old plasma, which is now in a bedroom, is still a perfectly good TV, though not used for primary viewing anymore.
My parents are still using my 14 year old 50" KURO to watch HD broadcast TV and refuse to let me replace it with a "better" LCD TV. That TV must have been made by elves because it still looks amazing - and it simply won't die!
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post #110 of 158 Old 06-26-2019, 05:16 PM
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My parents are still using my 14 year old 50" KURO to watch HD broadcast TV and refuse to let me replace it with a "better" LCD TV. That TV must have been made by elves because it still looks amazing - and it simply won't die!
Very wise parents!

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post #111 of 158 Old 06-26-2019, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by 8KCRT View Post
I've come to the conclusion that it's truly pointless to attempt to re-sell any AV equipment unless they are Mac amplifiers (or similarly desirable boutique brand) so my original plan to buy the 77" OLED now has morphed into a "slightly" more expensive 2 stage strategy over 3 years:
Stage 1: get a good but smaller 65" OLED now
Stage 2: add the larger 77" or 85" 8K OLED when prices drop below $8,000

At least this is what I tell myself so that I don't feel like I've backed myself into a corner with buying an OLED today. I originally planned on getting the 75" Vizio Quantum PX now and adding the 8K OLED later, but my wife was pretty adamant: "I refuse to watch inferior PQ for the next 3 years in the hopes that one day you would upgrade the TV. Get the 65" OLED, and I wouldn't mind you moving it into the bedroom when you upgrade to the larger OLED later." That actually made a lot of sense!

This is a good plan and I may do something similar after buying a 65" A9G. I figure that 77" OLEDs should be "affordable" in a couple a years, which is the same time HDMI 2.1 may become relevant.
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post #112 of 158 Old 07-01-2019, 11:11 AM
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Do you guys think it's possible/probable we will see larger than 77" OLEDs in 2020? Something cheaper than the "can't afford it" 88" 8K?
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post #113 of 158 Old 07-01-2019, 11:12 AM
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Do you guys think it's possible/probable we will see larger than 77" OLEDs in 2020? Something cheaper than the "can't afford it" 88" 8K?


Nope.


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post #114 of 158 Old 07-01-2019, 11:19 AM
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Nope.


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So you think the 88" will remain the only large OLED panel?
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post #115 of 158 Old 07-01-2019, 11:58 AM
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I keep waffling on whether to buy the 65A9G/C9 or the 75X950G. I don't feel as though moving from a 60" Panasonic plasma to a 65" OLED is as much of an upgrade as going from a 60" plasma to a 75" Sony 950G. I would prefer to buy the 77A9G but I set a hard stop at $4K. Thoughts?

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post #116 of 158 Old 07-01-2019, 12:08 PM
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I keep waffling on whether to buy the 65A9G/C9 or the 75X950G. I don't feel as though moving from a 60" Panasonic plasma to a 65" OLED is as much of an upgrade as going from a 60" plasma to a 75" Sony 950G. I would prefer to buy the 77A9G but I set a hard stop at $4K. Thoughts?


Get a 77C8.


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post #117 of 158 Old 07-01-2019, 12:23 PM
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Get a 77C8.

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I've thought about it but its still $2,500 more than I want to spend. Maybe a huge sale in coming in the next few months.

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post #118 of 158 Old 07-01-2019, 12:26 PM
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I've thought about it but its still $2,500 more than I want to spend. Maybe a huge sale in coming in the next few months.


I guess I don’t understand since you said your hard cap is $4,000 and you can get a 77C8 for less than that.

77C8 should be more or less completely gone in a few months and if you are thinking of waiting that long then just wait for Black Friday and you can probably get a 77C9 for around $4K.

If you don’t want to spend that kind of money but want your socks blown off with a larger screen size than get one of the higher end LED sets that are available.


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post #119 of 158 Old 07-01-2019, 12:37 PM
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I guess I don’t understand since you said your hard cap is $4,000 and you can get a 77C8 for less than that.

77C8 should be more or less completely gone in a few months and if you are thinking of waiting that long then just wait for Black Friday and you can probably get a 77C9 for around $4K.

If you don’t want to spend that kind of money but want your socks blown off with a larger screen size than get one of the higher end LED sets that are available.


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I need to do more research because I haven't found the 77C8 for less than $4K but I'm willing to wait until Black Friday or Super Bowl for the 77C9 or 77A9G.

Yes, the Sony 75X950G LED is currently running low $3K.

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post #120 of 158 Old 07-01-2019, 12:46 PM
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Originally Posted by mbroadus View Post
I need to do more research because I haven't found the 77C8 for less than $4K but I'm willing to wait until Black Friday or Super Bowl for the 77C9 or 77A9G.



Yes, the Sony 75X950G LED is currently running low $3K.


There are people using GreenToe and having offers of $4800 accepted for 77C9 and it’s only July. You will definitely be able to get one for around $4K at the end of the year.


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