Are you waiting for 2020 to buy a new OLED? - Page 7 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #181 of 223 Old 09-11-2019, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by Hotobu View Post
This is the most consistent reply I hear when I make the claim that I did, and I have to believe it's simply because it's either because people half read, or just feel they have to justify their purchase. "I'll get this (insert piece of tech), and nothing will ever come along to best it...." said no one ever. The goal of a consumer should be to make the most optimal purchase at the time. If you enjoy your TV great, and for some it makes sense, but, for some, buying a C9 is arguably a sub-optimal purchase.

The biggest selling point for the C9 over the C8 is HDMI 2.1. What HDMI 2.1 devices are out now? XB1?... meh. A few receivers? Essentially a C9 for many people right now IS a C8. For those that can, waiting for a C10 makes sense for several reasons.

- Devices will be out that will give reviewers a chance to test the HDMI2.1 spec to make sure it is performing as it should.
- Possible small upgrades over the C9
- If it is essentially the same TV with no real upgraded features a C9 can be picked up for even cheaper.
Sure and all it means is waiting another year. Like I said, not that big of a deal for a guy with a 1-2 year old TV or even someone with a 3-4 year old TV. Quite a long wait for someone still on 1080P who is missing out on the golden age of 4K with tons of 4K UHD BD material being dropped every quarter.

I agree that HDMI 2.1 is meaningless now, but if I'm going to keep my TV for at least 4-5 years (which is likely) it is a very big deal for being able to extend the longevity of the TV before I feel compelled to replace it.

With the price drops of the C9 series the only reason for someone to get a C8 is that they are going to replace it again in a relatively short amount of time.

The resale value of TVs is crap and you will be lucky to get 10-20% of your original price paid after the TV is even just a couple of years old. I personally find it a better play financially to get the best TV I can afford at the time of purchase that I will keep the longest rather than buying a less capable model and feeling the itch to upgrade it after just a couple of years.
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post #182 of 223 Old 09-11-2019, 02:59 PM
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I want 120Hz BFI at a minimum, so I'm waiting until at least 2020. I also want native RGB OLED, but that could be a long way off (if it even ever comes at all). I further want no anti-glare filter on the screen. The TV I want may never be made, I fear.
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post #183 of 223 Old 09-11-2019, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
It might be a C0 or it might be a C20, but I think it's very unlikely the 2020 C-Series WOLEDs from LGE will be called C10s...

Oh, and you missed the clearest readon to wait: mofified WOLED stack delivering improved color gamut from 99% DCI-P3 to 100% DCI-P3 and up to 85% Rec.2020... (as well as hopefully the re-emergence of 120Hz BFI)
Completely forgot about 120Hz BFI. That seems like a natural evolution. I'm hoping for Freesync as well... not sure how likely it is, but some Samsung TVs have it so maybe there's hope.
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post #184 of 223 Old 09-11-2019, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post
I want 120Hz BFI at a minimum, so I'm waiting until at least 2020. I also want native RGB OLED, but that could be a long way off (if it even ever comes at all). I further want no anti-glare filter on the screen. The TV I want may never be made, I fear.
I would just be happy with a longer display life. If OLED could last 10 years before showing signs of burn-in I would be all over it, but as of today I wouldn't trust even the LG C9. Maybe the new Panasonic (although not available in the US) since it appears to manage heat much better which is probably a lot easier on the pixels.

As long as a few years of subtitles can make an OLED looks like this, I have to pass though.


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post #185 of 223 Old 09-11-2019, 10:39 PM
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Exclamation It is not an issue with the panels/4K so much as pitiful dearth of 4K broadcast offer

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Originally Posted by boe View Post
I'm curious if anyone else is waiting and what you are hoping for in 2020 (realistically)? I'm not sure why I think I should wait until 2020 but I will have run out of patience waiting for bigger sizes to drop in price and for new panel tech to come out by then. I may go crazy and get the mid year Sony OLED but I don't know what to expect in the mid year that will get me to forgo the wait.
My staying on the sidelines (indefinitely) is not due to the panels as much as a lack of 4K material on broadcast ! I mean, 4K cameras, 4K camcorders, 4K phones, 4K panels covering the walls even at Walmart ! I mean, c'mon networks. The 4K panels really look second rate with the garbage 1080i put out. Networks are lazy and cheap. Get up to speed with new 4K cameras and equipment ! Bravo to the efforts ESPN and a few others have made, for instance. N O T E N O U G H.
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post #186 of 223 Old 09-12-2019, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Maconi View Post
I would just be happy with a longer display life. If OLED could last 10 years before showing signs of burn-in I would be all over it, but as of today I wouldn't trust even the LG C9. Maybe the new Panasonic (although not available in the US) since it appears to manage heat much better which is probably a lot easier on the pixels.

As long as a few years of subtitles can make an OLED looks like this, I have to pass though.


I would love to know how that's subtitle induced, as you can see the same lines at the top of the television. I would also like to know how Panasonic manages heat better than LG when Panasonic drives their televisions harder to get higher light output?
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post #187 of 223 Old 09-12-2019, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Dianabol5mg View Post
I would love to know how that's subtitle induced, as you can see the same lines at the top of the television. I would also like to know how Panasonic manages heat better than LG when Panasonic drives their televisions harder to get higher light output?
Subtitles aren't always at the bottom of the screen. It sounds like you're doubting his claim, and I don't see any reason to.
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post #188 of 223 Old 09-12-2019, 07:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Dianabol5mg View Post
I would love to know how that's subtitle induced, as you can see the same lines at the top of the television. I would also like to know how Panasonic manages heat better than LG when Panasonic drives their televisions harder to get higher light output?
Not my TV, but I've seen subtitles on both the top and bottom.




The Panasonic supposedly manages heat better due to a giant metal plate built into the TV. I'm sure that reduces the stress on the OLED pixels and will increase the longevity of the screen overall (who knows by how much without a test though). I'll try to find the video.

EDIT: Found it. He talks about it from roughly 10:00 to :14:30.


Last edited by Maconi; 09-12-2019 at 07:44 PM.
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post #189 of 223 Old 09-12-2019, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Maconi View Post
Not my TV, but I've seen subtitles on both the top and bottom.




The Panasonic supposedly manages heat better due to a giant metal plate built into the TV. I'm sure that reduces the stress on the OLED pixels and will increase the longevity of the screen overall (who knows by how much without a test though). I'll try to find the video.

EDIT: Found it. He talks about it from roughly 10:00 to :14:30.

https://youtu.be/xpQc8qjw84w?t=606
That is crazy, I have never saw subtitles on the top of a screen and I watch a lot of subtitles because of Shudder.
As far as the Panasonic, that is very interesting. Please post when you find it.

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post #190 of 223 Old Yesterday, 01:31 AM
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I've seen it, but subtitle placement at the top is pretty rare in my experience. I believe it's more common with sports broadcasts since they don't want to interfere with the score graphics. I wonder how many hours of usage that amounts to, as I have a 2-year-old irreplaceable G6 with over 5k hours that may be seeing a similar fate soon.
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Any word if the 48" OLED is gonna be 2020 or 2021?
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post #192 of 223 Old Yesterday, 04:35 AM
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Originally Posted by WOLVERNOLE View Post
My staying on the sidelines (indefinitely) is not due to the panels as much as a lack of 4K material on broadcast ! I mean, 4K cameras, 4K camcorders, 4K phones, 4K panels covering the walls even at Walmart ! I mean, c'mon networks. The 4K panels really look second rate with the garbage 1080i put out. Networks are lazy and cheap. Get up to speed with new 4K cameras and equipment ! Bravo to the efforts ESPN and a few others have made, for instance. N O T E N O U G H.


There is plenty of quality 4K content available on streaming services. Netflix, Amazon, soon Disney+ and Apple.

If you are waiting on CATV or broadcast for content before jumping in you’re going to be waiting quite a while, they are likely years away.


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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
I've seen it, but subtitle placement at the top is pretty rare in my experience. I believe it's more common with sports broadcasts since they don't want to interfere with the score graphics. I wonder how many hours of usage that amounts to, as I have a 2-year-old irreplaceable G6 with over 5k hours that may be seeing a similar fate soon.
Why do you say it's irreplaceable? Many 6 series owners have gotten their panels replaced by LG for BI. Myself included.

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Originally Posted by Maconi View Post
Not my TV, but I've seen subtitles on both the top and bottom.
Subtitles rarely are at the top. In english speaking counties there is little content with subtitles anyway. The pictures you posted are not subtitles related.
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
Subtitles rarely are at the top. In english speaking counties there is little content with subtitles anyway. The pictures you posted are not subtitles related.
https://www.rtings.com/tv/discussion...-and-subtitles

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Why do you say it's irreplaceable? Many 6 series owners have gotten their panels replaced by LG for BI. Myself included.
Because 3D is irreplaceable.
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Because 3D is irreplaceable.
Ah. I forgot there were 1 or 2 people that actually cared about 3D

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Originally Posted by Maconi View Post
It just rarely happens that subtitles are at the top. One does not get burn in at the top for rarely having subtitels there. It is very odd that a person watches a english movie with english subtitels. Also there are at least six burn in lines in full orange field so those can not be subtitles related.

Rtings does not have any date on subtitles burn in only guesstimates.

4 subtitles lines at the bottom
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Honestly, I'm still an inch away from pulling the trigger on a C9, but the only thing that's been giving me pause for months is whether the sets next year will have the BFI improvements that were promised this year and then mysteriously disappeared in the consumer release. Given what happened with the 9-series though, we may not know for sure until they release if LG pulls the same shenanigans in removing features like they did this year.
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
Subtitles rarely are at the top. In english speaking counties there is little content with subtitles anyway. The pictures you posted are not subtitles related.
I'm from the states and literally everything has subtitles. It's just your option if you want to turn it on or not, but all major networks have it as do streaming services like Netflix, etc. I've also noticed depending on which station or the content, like people said sports do, the subtitles can jump all around.
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Any word if the 48" OLED is gonna be 2020 or 2021?
It'll be 2020 (possibly late).

LGD has deployed recently MMG in Korea and plans to adopt MMG at the new 8.5G plant in Chine in H1'20.

MMG means that whenever LGD 3 65" WOLED panels or 2 77" WOLED panels on a single 8.5G sheet, they will also be producibg 2 48" WOLED panels.

I'll be shocked if we don't see Vizio and LGE announce a 48" WOLED at CES 2020 (probably in addition to 55" and 65" for Vizio).
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Originally Posted by Airikay View Post
I'm from the states and literally everything has subtitles. It's just your option if you want to turn it on or not, but all major networks have it as do streaming services like Netflix, etc. I've also noticed depending on which station or the content, like people said sports do, the subtitles can jump all around.
I know that sort of subtitles which i see in movies at times where there is a word at the top + translation at the top but it is rare (i live western Europe).
Subtitles is a necessity for those who do not understand language or folks with hearing problems. In all other instances it is a sort of luxury AFAIK.
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
I know that sort of subtitles which i see in movies at times where there is a word at the top + translation at the top but it is rare (i live western Europe).
Subtitles is a necessity for those who do not understand language or folks with hearing problems. In all other instances it is a sort of luxury AFAIK.
Some people use "captions" to watch TV even if they know the language or don't have hearing impairments. Just a way to not disturb others or a way to actually follow what's being spoken, with the TV muted, because company is over, or such.

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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
Subtitles rarely are at the top. In english speaking counties there is little content with subtitles anyway. The pictures you posted are not subtitles related.
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
I know that sort of subtitles which i see in movies at times where there is a word at the top + translation at the top but it is rare (i live western Europe).
Subtitles is a necessity for those who do not understand language or folks with hearing problems. In all other instances it is a sort of luxury AFAIK.
What point are you trying to make?
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Originally Posted by Hotobu View Post
What point are you trying to make?
I think he's trying to say that a "normal person" (in his opinion) doesn't use subtitles, which means burn-in from subtitle usage doesn't count (again, in his opinion).

I guess that just makes me a weirdo though lol (I like to use subtitles when I don't feel like cranking the volume for one reason or another).

My original point was just that I don't like how easy it is to ruin an OLED screen currently. People act like you're "watching TV wrong" if you watch too much news, sports, subtitled shows, video games with static HUDs, etc. I also want to be able to use the TV for 5+ years, and then put it in a side room (or give it to a family member) when I'm ready to upgrade vs having to deal with a damaged screen and getting it repaired eventually (if they even still offer repairs for "old" OLED TVs 8 years down the road).

LG says that in 2022 it expects to double the "expected life" of OLED to 30,000 hours (up from 15,000 hours) though. That might put OLEDs into a much better spot (where you don't have to worry about burn-in until 10+ years down the road).
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Originally Posted by Hotobu View Post
What point are you trying to make?
I find it hard to believe that those full screen burn in pics are subtitles related since one needs six lines of subtitles frequently to create such burn in. I find it weird that folks watch stuff with subtitles popping up on all sort of places on the screen. I can't stand subtitles...rarely have subtitles turned on when watching a movie (only when watching chinese kungfu movies and stuff).
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Originally Posted by teiresias View Post
Honestly, I'm still an inch away from pulling the trigger on a C9, but the only thing that's been giving me pause for months is whether the sets next year will have the BFI improvements that were promised this year and then mysteriously disappeared in the consumer release. Given what happened with the 9-series though, we may not know for sure until they release if LG pulls the same shenanigans in removing features like they did this year.

If I were in the market for a new TV, this would be keeping me from pulling the trigger also. 120Hz BFI is a minimum must, IMO.
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Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
I find it hard to believe that those full screen burn in pics are subtitles related since one needs six lines of subtitles frequently to create such burn in. I find it weird that folks watch stuff with subtitles popping up on all sort of places on the screen. I can't stand subtitles...rarely have subtitles turned on when watching a movie (only when watching chinese kungfu movies and stuff).
I figured it was something like this, but didn't want to assume... aaaand here we are.

First of all what you can't stand or find interesting has 0 to do with what someone else does with their TV. Don't know if you realize this, but some people are hearing impaired (It's a shock I know). Some people actually need subtitles, and some people who can hear perfectly fine actually like subtitles. Here's another shocker, there is no universal standard for where subtitles show up on the screen. There are some spots where they will usually appear and (another shocker) those are the places on the screen where those burn-in spots are, and I find it hard to believe that anything else BUT subtitles would cause that. It makes 100% sense that burn-in would be problematic for people who always have subtitles on, and manifest in those specific areas on the screen. I don't think I've ever used subtitles, but I realize that what I do or do not like is not the standard and people doing things a different way aren't necessarily weird.

All of that said, I don't know why any hardcore subtitle user would even buy an OLED in the first place unless it was just an oversight.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Maconi View Post
I think he's trying to say that a "normal person" (in his opinion) doesn't use subtitles, which means burn-in from subtitle usage doesn't count (again, in his opinion).

I guess that just makes me a weirdo though lol (I like to use subtitles when I don't feel like cranking the volume for one reason or another).

My original point was just that I don't like how easy it is to ruin an OLED screen currently. People act like you're "watching TV wrong" if you watch too much news, sports, subtitled shows, video games with static HUDs, etc. I also want to be able to use the TV for 5+ years, and then put it in a side room (or give it to a family member) when I'm ready to upgrade vs having to deal with a damaged screen and getting it repaired eventually (if they even still offer repairs for "old" OLED TVs 8 years down the road).

LG says that in 2022 it expects to double the "expected life" of OLED to 30,000 hours (up from 15,000 hours) though. That might put OLEDs into a much better spot (where you don't have to worry about burn-in until 10+ years down the road).
It is probably up to 10.000 hours resilience now. I watch only movies on TV. That is 95% black bars. I expect 5,000 to 10,000 hours till there are any signs of uneven wear. Same with excessive static content which will get you burn in such period.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotobu View Post
Don't know if you realize this, but some people are hearing impaired (It's a shock I know). Some people actually need subtitles,
Shocker i mentioned that in my previous post.
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Here's another shocker, there is no universal standard for where subtitles show up on the screen. There are some spots where they will usually appear and (another shocker) those are the places on the screen where those burn-in spots are, and I find it hard to believe that anything else BUT subtitles would cause that.
There are six lines of burn in on that full orange field (i only posted the bottom four lines). So that would be six lines of subtitles being active prettymuch all the time.. Are you saying those are the spots were subtitles usually appear?
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Originally Posted by Hotobu
It makes 100% sense that burn-in would be problematic for people who always have subtitles on, and manifest in those specific areas on the screen. I don't think I've ever used subtitles, but I realize that what I do or do not like is not the standard and people doing things a different way aren't necessarily weird.
Must be that i watched a blu-ray movie a few days ago which had some subtitles on unusual placed. I only use TV for movies. I think subtitles ruin the picture quality. I do not want the white stuff on the screen while watching a movie in the dark. The other thing is when one does not mind subtitles popping up all over the screen all the time than burn in should not be a problem either. I find it odd that such people complain about the probability of burn in on a OLED TV.
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