Are you waiting for 2020 to buy a new OLED? - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 101 Old 05-04-2019, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Are you waiting for 2020 to buy a new OLED?

I'm curious if anyone else is waiting and what you are hoping for in 2020 (realistically)? I'm not sure why I think I should wait until 2020 but I will have run out of patience waiting for bigger sizes to drop in price and for new panel tech to come out by then. I may go crazy and get the mid year Sony OLED but I don't know what to expect in the mid year that will get me to forgo the wait.
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post #2 of 101 Old 05-04-2019, 11:11 AM
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I think the 2019 LG OLEDs, with HDMI 2.1 and (less importantly to me) variable refresh rate, have all the features I've been waiting for. I'm sure picture quality will improve every year, but the annual improvement seems to be incremental.

Having said that, I have no idea what they plan to introduce in 2020 and if it may include something I'd be willing to wait another year for. Honestly, I've mostly been waiting for the prices to drop more.
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post #3 of 101 Old 05-04-2019, 11:14 AM
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Waiting can be a never-ending sink hole. There is always the chance of improvement in performance and features. That being said, I am finally going to get a 2019 OLED. The tech has improved considerably over the past few years, and I don't see much advantage to waiting any longer.
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post #4 of 101 Old 05-04-2019, 11:58 AM
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I've started shopping 75"+ TVs. At this point, I'm thinking of waiting to see what happens next year.

OLED REASONS FOR WAITING:
- It seems like the new LG OLED plant in China should increase their capacity substantially in late 2019 or 2020. I'm hoping that might bring down prices on 77" models after going online, but it's entirely possible that it may take the later P10 plant before they go after the 75" market.
- I still haven't decided if it's a bad idea to buy OLED considering my TV currently sees a majority of use from gaming.
- I have $3.5k penciled in as my maximum pre-tax price for a 77" OLED. Based on the C8 deals hitting $4k last month, I figure the C9 may get there in a year.
- Sony OLEDs still catch my attention most in stores, and matching the 77" C9 price was encouraging.

OTHER REASONS:
- I don't really need to replace my 70" TV. Mainly I just wanted a TV that improves on the uniformity and black level from my current TV.
- There is online talk of a new Xbox and Playstation in 2020, so it doesn't hurt to see what features they support.
- I'd like to see if either Sony or Samsung ends up supporting more HDMI 2.1 features on 4k TVs at CES in 2020.
- The X1 Ultimate Sony LCDs won't hit my selected buying prices until later in the year, so I might as well see what happens in 2020.
- The higher-end 2019 4k LCDs from Sony and Samsung had lower introductory prices compared to the 2018 models, so I would expect that might continue whenever LG decides to compete in the 75"+ market.
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post #5 of 101 Old 05-04-2019, 02:02 PM
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There's always something to wait for.

That said, I've been seriously disappointed with LG's C9 etc. Lower peak brightness, higher input lag in HDR. All this for 150%-180% the price of a C8. HDMI 2.1 matters, but for people who upgrade every year there is a point in doing so, it doesn't yet. The killer features with BFI have not materialized as of yet.

The 77C9 is likely to be the same old W7 panel rehashed once twice again. But if you want <$4k,yeah, I suppose it might get there on some flash deal in a year. Or the 77C8 will.

Top LCD are a real competition to OLED in the stores, but not for the enthusiast market. The two categories are so far apart in PQ that only someone looking for their first high-grade TV will be choosing between the two. Simply put, however old your OLED is, unless it's got burn-in, at this point in time it's not possible to upgrade it to a LCD, only downgrade.
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post #6 of 101 Old 05-04-2019, 02:18 PM
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I said several years ago that my "all in" point was if an OLED could tick the boxes for eARC + VRR at 4k 120Hz 4:4:4 with HDR, bonus points for input lag below 20ms (let alone below 10ms on the C9 which is just nutty!) and black frame insertion with 120Hz, and extra special bonus points if 120Hz VRR + black frame insertion could be used together.

EDIT: More bonus points if it supported native 240Hz input, but also minus points if the native panel resolution is 8k as that will make it much more difficult to use a PC on it (and I don't mean in terms of gaming performance, rather I want at least 120Hz even for desktop use, and outputting at non-native resolutions for said desktop use can give very hit-and-miss results).


The C9 is the first TV that ticks those very boxes and would be the first consumer display in existence that I would feel comfortable replacing my CRT PC monitor with (especially considering those 120Hz input lag numbers!).

...but now I'm waiting for an iGPU that actually supports being able to feed such a display since my primary source will be an HTPC, and I don't need much in the way of GPU grunt. I do however need strong single-threaded CPU performance for emulation tasks, so the likes of a Zen2-based APU system on an STX motherboard like the ASRock A300 DeskMini would be great (though I'd much prefer one using the X300 platform instead...so I might be forced to go X570 mini ITX).
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post #7 of 101 Old 05-04-2019, 02:45 PM
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Yes, I'm excited for all of that as well.

The only problem is that it doesn't quite work right now! No 120 Hz input over 2.0, high lag problems with HDR input. If it takes a year to get 2.1 sources, a release-date purchase of the C9 will end up pointless. If it takes a year to patch HDR input lag and get 25% BFI enabled in firmware, a release-date purchase of the C9 will also be pointless, assuming the C10 will have these out of the box.

My PC is my only TV input, with wifi for a few things like Bandersnatch, and with refreshed-every-generation dual top GPU I'm definitely up for 120 Hz. But they don't do that over HDMI. As the C9 stands vs C8 right now, it's a bit dimmer peaks, brighter average, much higher input lag in 4K HDR 4:4:[email protected] Hz, which is the input mode that matters, and the addition of 2560*[email protected], which would've been great 3 years ago.
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post #8 of 101 Old 05-04-2019, 05:37 PM
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Gaming aside, and some other tweaks has the technology, basically maxed out? What more do you want and what more can they give?

My only beef with the technology is watching a less than stellar B movie on cable. Yes, these viewing habits are part of my routine. I don’t just watch pristine 4K discs, and the horrible blacks and smearing (non-tech term) with these less than perfect poor feed examples gets on my nerves and is embarrassing if someone is over watching.

Fix that. Make it a great display for anything I watch. Viewers choice and I’ll be happy. And a 77 and I’m done.

I don’t care about all the rest. It’s damn good as is and probably closer to the end of the road in performance than it is in front.

So wait for what? 1 percent improvement year over year each year?

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post #9 of 101 Old 05-04-2019, 07:45 PM
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8K oleds of various sizes should be out in 2020. The next big move in the evolution of Oled tv's. If I was in the market for a 2D only TV that is what would trip my trigger. 8K at an affordable price. 75" would be my goal as I already have 2 65' TV's. But as I type this I am watching a 3D movie and loving it. Without 3D...just not interested in anything newer, even 8K. But 2020, it will be an interesting year for sure...
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post #10 of 101 Old 05-04-2019, 07:55 PM
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I am uncertain. I will likely wait until 2020 for a Sony OLED with HDMI 2.1. LG should really get some credit for including HDMI 2.1 so early, so I'm debating giving them my business for the first time.
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post #11 of 101 Old 05-04-2019, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogHD View Post
There's always something to wait for.

Top LCD are a real competition to OLED in the stores, but not for the enthusiast market. The two categories are so far apart in PQ that only someone looking for their first high-grade TV will be choosing between the two. Simply put, however old your OLED is, unless it's got burn-in, at this point in time it's not possible to upgrade it to a LCD, only downgrade.

Isn't size and brightness something an enthusiast might worry about? Two things that LCD definitely has going for it over OLED. I'm coming from an E6 and seriously considering the 2018 85" Q900, since I don't care about viewing angles and I rarely watch anything in batcave conditions. Even running at OLED light 100 I feel the E6 has been barely bright enough and after just 3 years (with very average usage) I am seeing burn-in on red in a couple of different places. My watching is intermittent, very varied and with a plasma history I am used to making sure I don't leave static images on the screen. Still got burn-in, which really has me thinking twice now if I want to drop mega-bucks on a 77". Anyways I do consider myself an enthusiast, but dark room performance is not my only criteria.

I'm torn between a cheap(ish) C8, the new A9G or dropping 10k on the 85" Q900. A true 1st world problem if there ever was one..

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post #12 of 101 Old 05-04-2019, 10:00 PM
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Other than my projector, all I watch is oleds

Lg 65 C7
Lg 9800 1080 Oled
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post #13 of 101 Old 05-05-2019, 01:59 AM
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I'm no longer waiting past this year. But I am waiting for the 65 inch to be ~$2000.

There's a saying about "everything in moderation". If only it was applied to well, you know...
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post #14 of 101 Old 05-05-2019, 06:18 AM
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Waiting. Hoping it’ll be easier to find an acceptable panel and I want to go bigger than a 65” now.

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post #15 of 101 Old 05-05-2019, 06:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr.SoftDome View Post
What more do you want and what more can they give?
I doubt they can give it next year but I'd like burn in protection - either warranty or technological. I'd like them to at least double the brightness. I'd like 240hz -native - not some imaginary benchmark. I'd like prices to go down on the larger sets as the new fabrication plant goes online. I'd like DTS-X, Atmos processing so I can stream directly to my TV and playback to my prepro. I'd like them to double the processing power (no matter what you think is enough, it isn't - ask bill gates and his 640k memory is all you'll ever need). I'd love it if the processing unit of the TV as separate from the screen like Samsung TVs - makes wiring easier and upgrades a possibility as new tech such as HDMI 2.2 comes out. And if they could bring out a 240hz, 85" 8K TV - I'd like them to bring back 3D since it would be amazing under those conditions.

For next year, I know 75" will be my minimum size (if that is a size next year vs 77"). I don't know if I'll get 8K (only due to price). There are people who say they can't tell the difference between 1080p and 4K - I'm thinking those people probably shouldn't worry about high end TVs or driving vehicles without corrective lenses. I haven't even seen an 8K TV yet so I can't say if I'll notice the difference but I imagine I will if I get an 85" screen. Sure there may not be any 8K content yet but even at 1080p source upscaled to 4K through my Oppo looks much better to me than native 1080p.
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post #16 of 101 Old 05-05-2019, 06:43 AM
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I'm in no hurry. I like my plasma. I think the only thing that would get me to upgrade is a 77" oled for less than $3000.
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post #17 of 101 Old 05-05-2019, 07:23 AM
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I would like to wait till 2025 or so. Stuff like OLED brightness and Samsung working on their own OLED. And then there is the HDMI 2.1, 8K, top emission, the motion, more pricedrops, it is a work in progress. I can buy a sealed 55'' 2017 Panasonic OLED right now for €1,250. That is practically for free. So i might buy that. My current TV is 4/5 years old anyway so it is kind of time to move on.
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post #18 of 101 Old 05-05-2019, 07:34 AM
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Looking for ATSC 3.0 tuner built in.
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post #19 of 101 Old 05-05-2019, 08:29 AM
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I've been awaiting HDMI 2.1 for years - as I buy and hold and saw 2.1 as a generational step in terms of longevity. Granted if I didn't have a 265 lb 36XBR250 in my living room and instead had one I could easily swap myself, maybe I would have bought something else by now.


Anyway - I had a 49X830C in my exercise room I wasn't using much. Moved that into my bedroom, and have now decided just to hold off until Sony has HDMI 2.1

The reason why? When I watch normal HD (1080p) on my 830c, I'm astounded it isn't native 4k. The blacks are horrible yes, but the upscaling, to me, is astonishing.


I've waited soooo long. Another year of using my bedroom to watch TV is a sacrifice yes, but it's one I can live with...


I may change my mind later in the year, but for now, I'm holding off.
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post #20 of 101 Old 05-05-2019, 08:37 AM
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I currently Have a 65" E6 and am content for now. I will upgrade when the panels are switched top emissions, when that happens I will mostvlikely go &5" or larger.
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post #21 of 101 Old 05-05-2019, 10:03 AM
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I've been considering an OLED in 2019, but very well may wait for 2020 or beyond. My main concern is that HDR gaming will cause burn-in after a couple of years, and $3k+ for a 65" OLED is too much to spend on a TV that may become disposable in a few years. When/if prices drop to ~$1500, I could justify it, but for now I still have to consider both OLED and LCD for my gameroom and don't agree with the "No true Scotsman" argument that no knowledgeable enthusiasts still consider LCDs.

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post #22 of 101 Old 05-05-2019, 11:41 AM
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I am getting cryogenically frozen like Dr. Evil until 2199. I hear OLED will be awesome by then.
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post #23 of 101 Old 05-05-2019, 12:22 PM
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I am getting cryogenically frozen like Dr. Evil until 2199. I hear OLED will be awesome by then.
Time traveling may be a safer option.
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post #24 of 101 Old 05-05-2019, 12:25 PM
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Finally got to see one of the new 8K Samsungs at BB. Looked great from what I could tell under the store lighting. Can't wait for the 8K Oleds to hit the scene.

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post #25 of 101 Old 05-06-2019, 05:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Finally got to see one of the new 8K Samsungs at BB. Looked great from what I could tell under the store lighting. Can't wait for the 8K Oleds to hit the scene.
Do you think the 8K played a role in it looking good or do you think it would seemed similar if it was 4K? I'm curious because I haven't seen any 8K TVs yet.
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post #26 of 101 Old 05-06-2019, 06:16 AM
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Looking for ATSC 3.0 tuner built in.
Yeah, ATSC 3.0 and also AV1 hardware decoding seem to be things that might appear in the next year or two. External boxes/sticks will eventually be able to solve those if you buy now, however. Might be a while before you see an ATSC 3.0 DVR that makes it useful as an alternative to online streaming. Other than live sports, it seems like it'll be hard to get people interested in ATSC 3.0 via a TV tuner without DVR and ad skipping we're used to.
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post #27 of 101 Old 05-06-2019, 06:48 AM
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Do you think the 8K played a role in it looking good or do you think it would seemed similar if it was 4K? I'm curious because I haven't seen any 8K TVs yet.
They had it on a separate display...in the Magnolia Center. So nothing to compare side by side. From the distance I was...maybe 4 feet I could not see the individual pixels. From the same distance with the 4K models I could. I'm not sure if the demo loop was actually 8K...was a nature loop and seemed like I had seen the same demo material before. Makes me think it might have been 4K up scaled.

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post #28 of 101 Old 05-06-2019, 07:15 AM
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I tend to concentrate on the panel capabilities. Smart functionality is nice for the family but, deep down, I always suspect that their lifespan will be far shorter than the display itself. We can hope for companies to support their smart platforms but, at this stage, I assume that won't happen. Stuff like AV1 hardware decoding is the latest and greatest for how many years? Waiting for that risks having something better on the horizon.
For me, with current OLED panels, it's mainly about motion capabilities, especially for 24fps material, due to my viewing habits.

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post #29 of 101 Old 05-06-2019, 07:37 AM
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I'm practically tripping over my own feet in my efforts to purchase a new premium 4K TV in the next 30 or so days. I was sure that I would be getting a closeout 77 C8 but the surprise introduction of HDMI 2.1 features on the C9 as well as the Q90R substantially closing the gap with OLED has left me making a pretty tough choice.

I see little reason to wait for 2020 as I assume that most of the improvements will be further refinement/enhancement of HDMI 2.1 features and perhaps introduction of 8K OLED at prices consumers can afford.

I got to see the 65 C9 against a 75 Q90R in store yesterday and the C9 smashed the QLED... unfortunately though the Magnolia staff are useless and there was no way to compare settings on the TV, they also balked about using a thumb drive to compare content across multiple TVs and wouldn't even let me use built in Youtube apps on the sets to compare test patterns. I am pretty sensitive to 24P panning stutter and my understanding is this is a key area where OLED falls flat on its face. LG could have solved this with proper 120fps BFI but nope.

They happily agreed that the best option for me would be to purchase both TVs, try them out at home and return the one I didn't like.

No, seriously, they wouldn't let me put a thumb drive on a TV but were more than happy that I purchase a $5,000+ TV and return it.

Q90R might be good enough for my viewing habits as I am coming from 8 year old Panasonic VT30. I want a bigger set since my room is quite large and we sit 12-13' back from the display. Price delta between Q90R and C9 make it a tougher choice. If the difference was only $1,000 I would probably just go with the OLED set but right now I'm waiting for reviews on the first batch of 77" C9s and hopefully then can make a choice.
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post #30 of 101 Old 05-06-2019, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gorman42 View Post
I tend to concentrate on the panel capabilities. Smart functionality is nice for the family but, deep down, I always suspect that their lifespan will be far shorter than the display itself. We can hope for companies to support their smart platforms but, at this stage, I assume that won't happen. Stuff like AV1 hardware decoding is the latest and greatest for how many years? Waiting for that risks having something better on the horizon.
For me, with current OLED panels, it's mainly about motion capabilities, especially for 24fps material, due to my viewing habits.
It's wise not to rely on the Smart TV apps in terms of longevity, but the 2013 model I use still functions with Vudu and Amazon Prime (probably YouTube as well, just haven't checked lately).
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