2019 Sony A9G Master Series OLED Owner's Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #361 of 1419 Old 05-29-2019, 02:31 PM
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Is it dimming the entire screen or just the static HUD element? If only the HUD, that seems more like a logo dimming feature rather than ABL.
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post #362 of 1419 Old 05-29-2019, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by JD23 View Post
Is it dimming the entire screen or just the static HUD element? If only the HUD, that seems more like a logo dimming feature rather than ABL.
I think the whole screen.
I’m watching Superman from the 50s on H&I. There’s the H&I logo on the lower right. No ABL.

I don’t understand.

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post #363 of 1419 Old 05-29-2019, 03:58 PM
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After much debating and deciding, I went to a local BB and picked up a 65" A9G. Already I can see the color is much better vs my LG C8. I am however new to the Sony tvs in general, and really liked how easy the LG is to calibrate its picture modes etc. But what is everyone thinking is the best modes for SDR like Directv, gaming for both ps4 pro and xbox x, and then netflix type content?

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post #364 of 1419 Old 05-29-2019, 04:06 PM
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I did a color volume test on a 65 A9G today and it measures slightly larger than the C9 based on D-Nice's scan attached. Unfortunately there is a bug in Calman where you can save the session but it doesn't save the color volume data unless you export it so i'm unable to show the scan but I wrote down the results.

The C9 vs A9G:
Percent BT.709 L*a*b*: 105 vs 117
Percent DCI-P3 L*a*b*:71 vs 79
Percent BT.2020 L*a*b*: 48 vs 54

This is with the C9 with Peak Luminance set to High in HDR and the A9G PL set to High in HDR. Although the PL controls work slightly differently with these sets, these numbers compare them as bright as they can go in HDR.

D-Nice also measured the C9 with PL set at the different levels which I didn't have time to do today but I would assume the A9G would still measure higher given past measurements.

I also believe my A9F measured pretty close to the A9G I tested today based on memory.

After calibrating the A9G today and looking at some HDR content i'm familiar with all I can say is the A9G produces "wicked" HDR picture. The panel measured about 700 nits with a 10% window.
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post #365 of 1419 Old 05-29-2019, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
I did a color volume test on a 65 A9G today and it measures slightly larger than the C9 based on D-Nice's scan attached. Unfortunately there is a bug in Calman where you can save the session but it doesn't save the color volume data unless you export it so i'm unable to show the scan but I wrote down the results.

The C9 vs A9G:
Percent BT.709 L*a*b*: 105 vs 117
Percent DCI-P3 L*a*b*:71 vs 79
Percent BT.2020 L*a*b*: 48 vs 54

This is with the C9 with Peak Luminance set to High in HDR and the A9G PL set to High in HDR. Although the PL controls work slightly differently with these sets, these numbers compare them as bright as they can go in HDR.

D-Nice also measured the C9 with PL set at the different levels which I didn't have time to do today but I would assume the A9G would still measure higher given past measurements.

I also believe my A9F measured pretty close to the A9G I tested today based on memory.

After calibrating the A9G today and looking at some HDR content i'm familiar with all I can say is the A9G produces "wicked" HDR picture. The panel measured about 700 nits with a 10% window.
How come rtings had significantly higher color volume measurements on the a9f compared to the c8 and c9?
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post #366 of 1419 Old 05-29-2019, 04:40 PM
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Here are some SDR 150 nit Custom picture mode calibration results for the A9G. From my observations, it calibrated pretty much like the A9F, nothing significantly different. The Gray scale and CMS are very accurate and some of the CMS anomalies can't be corrected with user controls so it would be really nice if some day we could create a new 3D LUT like we can do for the LG to correct and or minimize some of these errors. I didn't have to make any "large" adjustments in the Gray scale or CMS calibration and I used de ITP as the deltaE formula. I find using de ITP gives the most accurate results if you have a meter that will read the lower IREs accurately and quickly. When looking at content that i'm familiar with, the A9G produced an excellent picture. It's hard to say if it's any better than the A9F because I wasn't able to view them side by side but based on memory the PQ is very similar.

You also have to remember this Sony comes from the factory calibrated to the modified JUDD white point and my guess is the 3D LUT "was created" with this white point as well since if you calibrate the A9G or any Master Series Sony with the JUDD WP, you tend to get more accurate CMS scans. These scans are for D65 calibration. The HDR scans were "normal" as well following the EOTF curve perfectly with a Peak Luminance of 700 nits with this particular set. I couldn't validate Dolby Vision because we don't have a test pattern generator which will trigger the Sony but DV content looked correct compared to the LG playing the same content near by.
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post #367 of 1419 Old 05-29-2019, 04:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Here are some SDR 150 nit Custom picture mode calibration results for the A9G. From my observations, it calibrated pretty much like the A9F, nothing significantly different. The Gray scale and CMS are very accurate and some of the CMS anomalies can't be corrected with user controls so it would be really nice if some day we could create a new 3D LUT like we can do for the LG to correct and or minimize some of these errors. I didn't have to make any "large" adjustments in the Gray scale or CMS calibration and I used de ITP as the deltaE formula. I find using de ITP gives the most accurate results if you have a meter that will read the lower IREs accurately and quickly. When looking at content that i'm familiar with, the A9G produced an excellent picture. It's hard to say if it's any better than the A9F because I wasn't able to view them side by side but based on memory the PQ is very similar.

You also have to remember this Sony comes from the factory calibrated to the modified JUDD white point and my guess is the 3D LUT "was created" with this white point as well since if you calibrate the A9G or any Master Series Sony with the JUDD WP, you tend to get more accurate CMS scans. These scans are for D65 calibration. The HDR scans were "normal" as well following the EOTF curve perfectly with a Peak Luminance of 700 nits with this particular set. I couldn't validate Dolby Vision because we don't have a test pattern generator which will trigger the Sony but DV content looked correct compared to the LG playing the same content near by.

Now pack it and send it to me! LOL
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post #368 of 1419 Old 05-29-2019, 04:48 PM
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Now pack it and send it to me! LOL
I had to spend extra time on the set since it was going to you lol so it will be shipping tomorrow I believe
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post #369 of 1419 Old 05-29-2019, 04:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Can't wait! And thanks again, it's nice having it show up ready to go. Should be moved in 2 weekends from now, so I can get the HT room setup.
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post #370 of 1419 Old 05-29-2019, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
I did a color volume test on a 65 A9G today and it measures slightly larger than the C9 based on D-Nice's scan attached. Unfortunately there is a bug in Calman where you can save the session but it doesn't save the color volume data unless you export it so i'm unable to show the scan but I wrote down the results.

The C9 vs A9G:
Percent BT.709 L*a*b*: 105 vs 117
Percent DCI-P3 L*a*b*:71 vs 79
Percent BT.2020 L*a*b*: 48 vs 54

This is with the C9 with Peak Luminance set to High in HDR and the A9G PL set to High in HDR. Although the PL controls work slightly differently with these sets, these numbers compare them as bright as they can go in HDR.

D-Nice also measured the C9 with PL set at the different levels which I didn't have time to do today but I would assume the A9G would still measure higher given past measurements.

I also believe my A9F measured pretty close to the A9G I tested today based on memory.

After calibrating the A9G today and looking at some HDR content i'm familiar with all I can say is the A9G produces "wicked" HDR picture. The panel measured about 700 nits with a 10% window.
Can you explain the discrepancy of your sony a9g measurements with that of rtings? You said a9g is very similar to the a9f, the measurements they posted in the a9f review were:
Color volume : dci p3 87.8%
bt 2020 : 69.9%

The differences i can see is rtings uses the ICtCp colorspace and measures about 60 points, you use CIElab with 140 measurements.
You use peak luminance as high , is rtings not using PL high?

The numbers rtings put out are higher than yours.
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post #371 of 1419 Old 05-29-2019, 05:42 PM
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Can you explain the discrepancy of your sony a9g measurements with that of rtings? You said a9g is very similar to the a9f, the measurements they posted in the a9f review were:
Color volume : dci p3 87.8%
bt 2020 : 69.9%

The differences i can see is rtings uses the ICtCp colorspace and measures about 60 points, you use CIElab with 140 measurements.
You use peak luminance as high , is rtings not using PL high?

The numbers rtings put out are higher than yours.
These are two different CV measurement methods. I used CIElab and PL set to high to be consistent with D-Nice's measurements since I know him and trust his results were done correctly. I respect Rtings but I have no first hand experience with their calibrators. If you lower the PL control to OFF, CV will increase by a lot as per D-Nice's posts early on the C9 since you are not using the White sub pixel as you would be with it set to High in HDR for example..

I'm calibrating another A9G tomorrow and can try ICtCP color space and see what it measures.

Can you send me the link to the Rtings measurements and i'll try to replicate.
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post #372 of 1419 Old 05-29-2019, 05:47 PM
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I’m not sure how I feel about the A9G. It’s ABL bothers me when gaming and my E6 doesn’t do ABL that I can tell.

Color seems to punch more on my E6 like Saturated more maybe in Destiny 2 on my Xbox One X. The A9G looks good. Colors are real nice too in non gaming. I may like the A9G slightly better then my E6 except in gaming.

So I’m not sure how I feel. I would love it if users here could please help. Ask me questions and stuff. I’m new to Sony and don’t know much.

I just wish I felt better. Maybe I’m just so used to my E6 but it has handshake issues with my system
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post #373 of 1419 Old 05-29-2019, 05:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
These are two different CV measurement methods. I used CIElab and PL set to high to be consistent with D-Nice's measurements since I know him and trust his results were done correctly. I respect Rtings but I have no first hand experience with their calibrators. If you lower the PL control to OFF, CV will increase by a lot as per D-Nice's posts early on the C9 since you are not using the White sub pixel as you would be with it set to High in HDR for example..

I'm calibrating another A9G tomorrow and can try ICtCP color space and see what it measures.

Can you send me the link to the Rtings measurements and i'll try to replicate.
Yes, dnice measured peak brightness on lg c9 with different peak luminannce settings, the off setting showed a much higher result than the high setting because with high, the white subpixel is being pushed much harder along with the primaries.

However, i think that taking volume measurements with PL set to High makes sense. Most HDR content today is dci p3 within a bt 2020 container. And when you're playing HDR, you want the tv to be hitting its peak brightness capabilities and you would have PL set to high. So, the dci p3 volume measurement with peak luminance set to high is the relevant metric for hdr.

Far as the sony a9f/a9g goes, rtings does do measurements in ICtCp space (developed by dolby) as they believe this gives more accurate results for hdr.
Here is rtings' a9f review which shows the volume measurements, scroll down to the volume section
https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/sony/a9f-oled
And here's their testing methodolgy for volume explained
https://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/pict...3-and-rec-2020
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post #374 of 1419 Old 05-29-2019, 06:04 PM
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Finally decided to pull the trigger on a 65 inch a9g through greentoe. Hopefully it's here quick because I can't wait! I'm coming from a 65 inch Panny vt60.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
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post #375 of 1419 Old 05-29-2019, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post
I’m not sure how I feel about the A9G. It’s ABL bothers me when gaming and my E6 doesn’t do ABL that I can tell.

Color seems to punch more on my E6 like Saturated more maybe in Destiny 2 on my Xbox One X. The A9G looks good. Colors are real nice too in non gaming. I may like the A9G slightly better then my E6 except in gaming.

So I’m not sure how I feel. I would love it if users here could please help. Ask me questions and stuff. I’m new to Sony and don’t know much.

I just wish I felt better. Maybe I’m just so used to my E6 but it has handshake issues with my system
No oled out there is free of ABL. The behavior you mentioned that a game with a HUD got dim after some seconds points towards ASBL , which is different than ABL. ASBL is triggered when static content on screen is detected, like a game HUD or a scorecard. ASBL has existed on previous sony oleds, but most people who don't game or view content with large static imagery wouldn't notice it.
The game you said you notice the screen dimming after few seconds, when movement is detected on screen, you'll find that it goes back to being bright. It's ASBL.
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post #376 of 1419 Old 05-29-2019, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post
I’m not sure how I feel about the A9G. It’s ABL bothers me when gaming and my E6 doesn’t do ABL that I can tell.

Color seems to punch more on my E6 like Saturated more maybe in Destiny 2 on my Xbox One X. The A9G looks good. Colors are real nice too in non gaming. I may like the A9G slightly better then my E6 except in gaming.

So I’m not sure how I feel. I would love it if users here could please help. Ask me questions and stuff. I’m new to Sony and don’t know much.

I just wish I felt better. Maybe I’m just so used to my E6 but it has handshake issues with my system

Have you considered the C9? It may have less aggressive ASBL and also has HDMI 2.1.
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post #377 of 1419 Old 05-29-2019, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
No oled out there is free of ABL. The behavior you mentioned that a game with a HUD got dim after some seconds points towards ASBL , which is different than ABL. ASBL is triggered when static content on screen is detected, like a game HUD or a scorecard. ASBL has existed on previous sony oleds, but most people who don't game or view content with large static imagery wouldn't notice it.
The game you said you notice the screen dimming after few seconds, when movement is detected on screen, you'll find that it goes back to being bright. It's ASBL.
I didn’t say it brightness when I move. It stays dark when gaming.

And as I mentioned in a previous post non gaming font do this. I watched a few episodes of Superman on H&I and the logo is in the lower right. No darkening here.

So I don’t get it.
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post #378 of 1419 Old 05-29-2019, 06:39 PM
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Have you considered the C9? It may have less aggressive ASBL and also has HDMI 2.1.
I bought the C9 and returned it. It was darker then my E6 except HDR. It’s ABL was bad too.

I don’t care about HDMI 2.1 since my AVR don’t do it and I don’t connect to my tv.

There’s never been ABL on my E6. Not once. And I can set it as bright as it goes. But I don’t.
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post #379 of 1419 Old 05-29-2019, 06:48 PM
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Press the Home button on the remote, then go to Settings > Picture & Display > Screen > Display area.
Thanks. For some reason, that option isn't available when the cable box is selected. Strange.

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Finally decided to pull the trigger on a 65 inch a9g through greentoe. Hopefully it's here quick because I can't wait! I'm coming from a 65 inch Panny vt60.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk


You won’t regret it. It’s a thing of beauty.
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post #381 of 1419 Old 05-29-2019, 06:56 PM
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Thanks. For some reason, that option isn't available when the cable box is selected. Strange.


It’s grayed out when the input signal is 4K. It’s gotta be 1080p or less to change the aspect.
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post #382 of 1419 Old 05-29-2019, 07:17 PM
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It’s grayed out when the input signal is 4K. It’s gotta be 1080p or less to change the aspect.
I figured it out. This whole time I had my HDMI input set to standard. When I changed it to enhanced it solved the problem.
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post #383 of 1419 Old 05-29-2019, 07:58 PM
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Exclamation These pics look "wicked accurate."

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Here are some SDR 150 nit Custom picture mode calibration results for the A9G. From my observations, it calibrated pretty much like the A9F, nothing significantly different. The Gray scale and CMS are very accurate and some of the CMS anomalies can't be corrected with user controls so it would be really nice if some day we could create a new 3D LUT like we can do for the LG to correct and or minimize some of these errors. I didn't have to make any "large" adjustments in the Gray scale or CMS calibration and I used de ITP as the deltaE formula. I find using de ITP gives the most accurate results if you have a meter that will read the lower IREs accurately and quickly. When looking at content that i'm familiar with, the A9G produced an excellent picture. It's hard to say if it's any better than the A9F because I wasn't able to view them side by side but based on memory the PQ is very similar.

You also have to remember this Sony comes from the factory calibrated to the modified JUDD white point and my guess is the 3D LUT "was created" with this white point as well since if you calibrate the A9G or any Master Series Sony with the JUDD WP, you tend to get more accurate CMS scans. These scans are for D65 calibration. The HDR scans were "normal" as well following the EOTF curve perfectly with a Peak Luminance of 700 nits with this particular set. I couldn't validate Dolby Vision because we don't have a test pattern generator which will trigger the Sony but DV content looked correct compared to the LG playing the same content near by.
WICKED ACCURATE !

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post #384 of 1419 Old 05-29-2019, 08:04 PM
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Exclamation Awww c'mon !

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Originally Posted by oedeooo View Post
Finally decided to pull the trigger on a 65 inch a9g through greentoe. Hopefully it's here quick because I can't wait! I'm coming from a 65 inch Panny vt60.

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Don't expect ME to feel sorry for you !

I mean how difficult...how critical could things be if your 65" Panny VT60 is functional ?
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post #385 of 1419 Old 05-29-2019, 08:05 PM
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Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post
I didn’t say it brightness when I move. It stays dark when gaming.



And as I mentioned in a previous post non gaming font do this. I watched a few episodes of Superman on H&I and the logo is in the lower right. No darkening here.



So I don’t get it.


For brighter hdr gaming set peak luminance to high, and if that’s not enough raise up the advanced contrast enhancer and contrast slider.


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post #386 of 1419 Old 05-29-2019, 08:19 PM
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I think's sony's OOTB calibration on the a9g is good and much like the a9f, as you can see from jref's grayscale/color checker charts , the delta errors are not too bad pre-calibration and within acceptable limits, however some people may not find the judd offset that comes with the sony to be visually 'correct', because their eyes have always been tuned to D65 being the more natural looking WP. If you find the WP that sony comes with as acceptable, you may run this tv uncalibrated for a few months and it will still look great as it is, until you eventually decide upon a calibration. Some improvements will obviously come with a calibration, but not as much as you get on lg oleds. I have always said that with oleds, when you have a calibration, lg oleds have the most noticeable perceptual improvements to image quality, on sony the improvements are lesser and on panasonic they are the least. And this is simply down to the fact that the OOTB fine tuning on sony is better than lg and panasonic is better than sony (and all other manufacturers).
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post #387 of 1419 Old 05-29-2019, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Here are some SDR 150 nit Custom picture mode calibration results for the A9G. From my observations, it calibrated pretty much like the A9F, nothing significantly different. The Gray scale and CMS are very accurate and some of the CMS anomalies can't be corrected with user controls so it would be really nice if some day we could create a new 3D LUT like we can do for the LG to correct and or minimize some of these errors. I didn't have to make any "large" adjustments in the Gray scale or CMS calibration and I used de ITP as the deltaE formula. I find using de ITP gives the most accurate results if you have a meter that will read the lower IREs accurately and quickly. When looking at content that i'm familiar with, the A9G produced an excellent picture. It's hard to say if it's any better than the A9F because I wasn't able to view them side by side but based on memory the PQ is very similar.

You also have to remember this Sony comes from the factory calibrated to the modified JUDD white point and my guess is the 3D LUT "was created" with this white point as well since if you calibrate the A9G or any Master Series Sony with the JUDD WP, you tend to get more accurate CMS scans. These scans are for D65 calibration. The HDR scans were "normal" as well following the EOTF curve perfectly with a Peak Luminance of 700 nits with this particular set. I couldn't validate Dolby Vision because we don't have a test pattern generator which will trigger the Sony but DV content looked correct compared to the LG playing the same content near by.
What are your thoughts on the white points recommended in this guide?

http://sonyglobal.akamaized.net/is/c...ith.CalMAN.pdf

I tried both standard D65 and Judd on my A9F, and while Judd looked good, it still didn't look quite right. D65 looked way off compared to my Kuro; whites were teal. I ended up going with x:0.3067, y:0.318, which the above guide recommends for those of us using colorimeters like the C6 or i1Display Pro (see p. 20). I find whites to be extremely pure and colors on point with this target. Probably worth trying on the A9G also.
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post #388 of 1419 Old 05-29-2019, 11:42 PM
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Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post
I’m not sure how I feel about the A9G. It’s ABL bothers me when gaming and my E6 doesn’t do ABL that I can tell.

Color seems to punch more on my E6 like Saturated more maybe in Destiny 2 on my Xbox One X. The A9G looks good. Colors are real nice too in non gaming. I may like the A9G slightly better then my E6 except in gaming.

So I’m not sure how I feel. I would love it if users here could please help. Ask me questions and stuff. I’m new to Sony and don’t know much.

I just wish I felt better. Maybe I’m just so used to my E6 but it has handshake issues with my system
For ABL, try to set Peak Luminance to Medium or Low. If I am not mistaken, the higher the PL, the more aggressive ABL is, as it has to maintain the same power limits with higher luminance areas. Games use very saturated and bright colors, so it is typical to suffer more ABL, then try relax it with Peak Luminance setting. Or maybe I am mistaken.


Notice that C9 has the same setting PL (don't remember the name for LG) probably on High by default, and on RTings they mention to lower its value to relax the ABL.
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post #389 of 1419 Old 05-30-2019, 04:51 AM
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Originally Posted by WOLVERNOLE View Post
Don't expect ME to feel sorry for you !



I mean how difficult...how critical could things be if your 65" Panny VT60 is functional ?
The Panny is still an incredible TV. However, for some reason it now sends a buz {especially during brighter scenes) that is incredibly noticeable through my home theater and drives me nuts. I have gone so far as trying to replace the power supply with no luck. Luckily the buz isn't as noticeable through its internal speakers so it's going to move upstairs to live for hopefully many more years.

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post #390 of 1419 Old 05-30-2019, 05:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
I think's sony's OOTB calibration on the a9g is good and much like the a9f, as you can see from jref's grayscale/color checker charts , the delta errors are not too bad pre-calibration and within acceptable limits, however some people may not find the judd offset that comes with the sony to be visually 'correct', because their eyes have always been tuned to D65 being the more natural looking WP. If you find the WP that sony comes with as acceptable, you may run this tv uncalibrated for a few months and it will still look great as it is, until you eventually decide upon a calibration. Some improvements will obviously come with a calibration, but not as much as you get on lg oleds. I have always said that with oleds, when you have a calibration, lg oleds have the most noticeable perceptual improvements to image quality, on sony the improvements are lesser and on panasonic they are the least. And this is simply down to the fact that the OOTB fine tuning on sony is better than lg and panasonic is better than sony (and all other manufacturers).
Which is because Sony has better quality control than LG and is partly why the price is higher. In addition, Sony uses a system where once the set is calibrated, you can change the gamma and brightness ( to an extent ) and it makes the necessary corrections and the calibration remains correct. So if you calibrate to gamma 0 (2.2), and change the gamma to -2 (2.4) the set will apply the necessary offsets. But you are correct I rarely see recent Sony's with the gamma way off like you can see on the LG. And I feel you get the most perceptual benefit calibrating the Sony with reference equipment. Once the set is broken in and calibrated, it should last many years before another calibration is needed on the Sony's.
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