2019 Sony A9G Master Series OLED Owner's Thread - Page 14 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #391 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Which is because Sony has better quality control than LG and is partly why the price is higher. In addition, Sony uses a system where once the set is calibrated, you can change the gamma and brightness ( to an extent ) and it makes the necessary corrections and the calibration remains correct. So if you calibrate to gamma 0 (2.2), and change the gamma to -2 (2.4) the set will apply the necessary offsets. But you are correct I rarely see recent Sony's with the gamma way off like you can see on the LG. And I feel you get the most perceptual benefit calibrating the Sony with reference equipment. Once the set is broken in and calibrated, it should last many years before another calibration is needed on the Sony's.

I am not sure whether you have discussed this already, but have you noticed any difference, on average, between the magenta tinting/full-field white nonuniformity on the A9G and C9? I am guessing not, but I wanted to verify.
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post #392 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by JD23 View Post
I am not sure whether you have discussed this already, but have you noticed any difference, on average, between the magenta tinting/full-field white nonuniformity on the A9G and C9? I am guessing not, but I wanted to verify.
Both identical since they are using the same panel.

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post #393 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 07:00 AM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Both identical since they are using the same panel.


It sounds like you prefer the A9G over the C9, correct?


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post #394 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 07:55 AM
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Just pulled the trigger on the 65" A9G. Hopefully, will arrive next week.
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post #395 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 08:09 AM
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
It sounds like you prefer the A9G over the C9, correct?


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Both are great sets, but yes that's my personal opinion.

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post #396 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 09:11 AM
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Any one have suggestions for the best settings yet? For SDR, HDR and gaming?
My LG was a bit easier to me.

Sony A9G 65"/LG C8 65”- Bose 300 w/surround cubes- Xbox One X- PS4 Pro
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post #397 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
It sounds like you prefer the A9G over the C9, correct?
Sony makes the better set.......Runco back in the day bout Panasonic screens and made there own plasma, much better then a Panasonic I will add but very expensive.

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Don't expect ME to feel sorry for you !

I mean how difficult...how critical could things be if your 65" Panny VT60 is functional ?
That is a great set........
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post #398 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 11:48 AM
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Some testing on my new A9G, what are some of your opinions?
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post #399 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by buggs1a View Post
I play Destiny 2 on my Xbox One X.
When looking around the environment it’s jerky. This is on any tv. I’m wondering if that’s the game mostly?

I tried playing in Standard picture mode default settings and game mode default settings. There’s a difference. It’s like in Standard picture mode it’s trying to make it better but not quite. But in game mode it’s definitely worse.

I am trying to understand and I’m not able to. I hope someone can help me understand.


I also notice my weapon info on the lower left of the screen gets darker after only 20 seconds or so. This never happens on my E6. This is the ABL right? And there’s nothing to do about it? This sucks.
The Problem is that you are playing on Xbox and not Playstation 4 Pro .
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post #400 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 12:04 PM
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Originally Posted by XoOledxo View Post
Some testing on my new A9G, what are some of your opinions?
It's hard to say as you are looking down and from one of the sides so there is a little shift that is inevitable. But nothing glaring stands out from what I can see. What do the 10 and 5% slides look like?
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post #401 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 12:12 PM
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Any suggestions for best gaming settings ? I use a PS4 Pro if that helps . Also btw these new sony remote control has a very nice quality build to it .
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post #402 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 12:15 PM
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Originally Posted by XoOledxo View Post
Some testing on my new A9G, what are some of your opinions?
I see red then yellow then blue. This is the first A9 I’ve seen posted so I don’t know how this compares to the norm for 2019 Sony.
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post #403 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 12:16 PM
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The Problem is that you are playing on Xbox and not Playstation 4 Pro .
Naa. It’s the same. I have both.
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post #404 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 01:27 PM
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Ok so the discrepancy between Rtings and my Color Volume measurements is, by default the Sony's have Peak Luminance set to Medium even in HDR which "increases" the CV. I calibrated the Sony with PL set to High to get the maximum brightness in HDR. Please note the Peak Luminance control on the Sony works slightly differently than on the 2019 LG and the blend of the white sub pixel with the RGB sub pixels is different. On the Sony with PL set to Off you can only get about 100 nits of brightness and as you raise it you get more brightness to the max in SDR or HDR. On the LG you get full brightness with PL set to Off and small increments, I believe 40-50 nits more with each increment, as you raise it from Low to High in SDR. In HDR it's always set to High.

That said, I re-measured the CIELab Color Volume on the A9G with PL set to Medium and High in HDR then the same with ICtCp color space like Rtings. I also included the C9 Color Volume that D-Nice took on the C9 with PL set to High in HDR. I also included the Rtings page with their A9F color volume measurements for comparison.

The A9G I worked on today at VE where I took the measurements the Peak Luminance in HDR, D65 measured 700 nits. These Sony's can go higher with smaller windows but as we discovered, they manage the peak HDR brightness differently than LG.
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post #405 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 02:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Which is because Sony has better quality control than LG and is partly why the price is higher. In addition, Sony uses a system where once the set is calibrated, you can change the gamma and brightness ( to an extent ) and it makes the necessary corrections and the calibration remains correct. So if you calibrate to gamma 0 (2.2), and change the gamma to -2 (2.4) the set will apply the necessary offsets. But you are correct I rarely see recent Sony's with the gamma way off like you can see on the LG. And I feel you get the most perceptual benefit calibrating the Sony with reference equipment. Once the set is broken in and calibrated, it should last many years before another calibration is needed on the Sony's.
Yes that's beneficial if someone later decides to do the viewing in a pitch black room, and wants to set the gamma to 2.4 for such a viewing environment, the calibrated settings will stay valid.
Another calibration related advantage on sony is once you calibrate SDR, the settings map over to hdr. You dont have to separately set a WP for hdr10, dv , what you set for SDR will correctly map over.
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post #406 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 02:35 PM
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So PL must be set to Medium, not Off, to get reasonable brightness (120-150 nits) for SDR?
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post #407 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 02:38 PM
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So PL must be set to Medium, not Off, to get reasonable brightness (120-150 nits) for SDR?
On the Sony yes. I forget the exact numbers but it's in that range.

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post #408 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 02:51 PM
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So actual brightness is a function of both the "Brightness" setting and PL. That seems a bit confusing for SDR.
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post #409 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 02:54 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Ok so the discrepancy between Rtings and my Color Volume measurements is, by default the Sony's have Peak Luminance set to Medium even in HDR which reduces the CV.
Just to be clear the way you worded this, you arent saying that PL medium as opposed to high reduces the volume?? Your PL set to medium in the CIElab/ICtCp spaces is yielding a higher volume percentage compared to the high setting. You originally measured the volume with CIElab , PL set to high.
Since rtings numbers read 87.8% and 69.9% for p3 and bt 2020 , would that mean they are talking volume measurements using ICtCp and keeping PL to the default medium setting? Even if that's the case, still some noticeable difference in the p3 volume between yours and them (your fourth attached graph).
When these sony oleds detect hdr, the peak luminance setting by default is medium? For hdr, high would always be the recommended setting?
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post #410 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 02:59 PM
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So actual brightness is a function of both the "Brightness" setting and PL. That seems a bit confusing for SDR.
For the Sony that's correct. We experimented with this a while back, at a high level, Brightness (A) with PL (B) can equal Brightness (C) with PL (D). I forget the exact numbers but this illustrates how it works. I'm sure over the years Sony has modified the blend o the WRGB sub-pixels given these combinations. Example, (these are not actual numbers), Brightness 15 with PL High can equal Brightness 45 with PL OFF for example. D-Nice did find that the ABL is less aggressive with PL set to Off but that will also give you a luminance in the 100 nit range for a dark room.

I'm not praising the way the Sony works just explaining what we have experienced on how it works.
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post #411 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 03:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
Just to be clear the way you worded this, you arent saying that PL medium as opposed to high reduces the volume?? Your PL set to medium in the CIElab/ICtCp spaces is yielding a higher volume percentage compared to the high setting. You originally measured the volume with CIElab , PL set to high.
Since rtings numbers read 87.8% and 69.9% for p3 and bt 2020 , would that mean they are talking volume measurements using ICtCp and keeping PL to the default medium setting? Even if that's the case, still some noticeable difference in the p3 volume between yours and them (your fourth attached graph).
When these sony oleds detect hdr, the peak luminance setting by default is medium? For hdr, high would always be the recommended setting?
Correct lower PL gives you higher color volume, I updated the post.

So if you have Peak Luminance set to Medium in Custom on HDMI 1 using Expert 1 SDR for example, when you switch to an HDR content on that HDMI port, the set will switch to HDR Custom with Brightness set to Max and leave PL set to Medium. It will not raise it to High automatically.

Rtings was measuring an A9F and I measured an A9G. I used this comparison because people were asking about the difference if any. I took the screen shot from the Rtings link you posted for the A9F. Sorry if I didn't make that clear.

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post #412 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 03:07 PM
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Originally Posted by JD23 View Post
Just pulled the trigger on the 65" A9G. Hopefully, will arrive next week.
Congr...from another thread i see you are moving in from a sony x930e right? Im familar with that tv, still one of the better tv's among lcd's, but you are going to see a major upgrade in picture moving to an a9g/a9f. From the a9f i demoed, i would say that comparatively, minus the eye searing almost ABL-less brightness you can get on the x930e, everything else will be an upgrade. When you get the oled and want demo content, turn off the room lights and try watching gravity and the scenes of sandra bullock flying in space. The scenes that have deep black backgrounds with bright object/s floating in the foreground will show the maximum advantage on compared to lcd, with such scenes the contrast of oled is maximized. And you'll get a 'floating effect' if you watch such scenes in a pitch black environment.

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post #413 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
So if you have Peak Luminance set to Medium in Custom on HDMI 1 using Expert 1 SDR for example, when you switch to an HDR content on that HDMI port, the set will switch to HDR Custom with Brightness set to Max and leave PL set to Medium. It will not raise it to High automatically.
In SDR there would be no point having PL any more than medium. What im asking and some newcomers to sony oleds would want to know, with hdr (hdr10 and dv), would changing the PL to high (together with brightness to max) be the better setting, or keeping PL to medium still works fine for hdr? I dont think the tv would hit its peak brightness of ~700 nits with PL on medium?
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post #414 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 03:26 PM
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So actual brightness is a function of both the "Brightness" setting and PL. That seems a bit confusing for SDR.
Slightly more complicated than simply having one oled light setting that has a slider on a 0-100 scale. But if you watch sdr in a dark room, you could just use a meter to see what brightness and PL settings together gives you 100-120 nits. 120 nits is the max. SDR would be encoded at.
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post #415 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 03:57 PM
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In SDR there would be no point having PL any more than medium. What im asking and some newcomers to sony oleds would want to know, with hdr (hdr10 and dv), would changing the PL to high (together with brightness to max) be the better setting, or keeping PL to medium still works fine for hdr? I dont think the tv would hit its peak brightness of ~700 nits with PL on medium?
You can use any combination you want but from my experience, setting the PL to High will give you the brightest HDR and DV picture on the Sony. Medium, the default works fine as well in HDR. At the last VE TV shootout I calibrated the Sony OLED and had PL set to high and it won several categories over the LG. On the other hand if you watch in a dark room, want 100- 120 nit luminance with maximum color volume and least aggressive ABL then setting it to Off in SDR works as well.
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post #416 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 04:16 PM
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On the Sony yes. I forget the exact numbers but it's in that range.


So D-Nice measured 878.5 nits peak brightness for the C9 and you measured 700 for the A9G, correct? That explains to why LG loses CV because that pushes the brightness further? D Nice did mention that if you set the C9 to Low Peak Brightness it will behave more like the A9F CV wise, correct?

I thought of returning my C9 for the A9G but I don’t want to give up future gaming features. I love how the colors look on the A9F. Colors look mighty nice on the C9 too. I just have to trade some features for others.
Thanks for the detailed info!
Have to hit you up to get my C9 calibrated.



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Now that I modified the CalMAN Color Volume work flow for more detailed ICtCp color space measurements next time I calibrate a C9 i'll do a run for comparison.
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post #418 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 04:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BarrettF77 View Post
It's hard to say as you are looking down and from one of the sides so there is a little shift that is inevitable. But nothing glaring stands out from what I can see. What do the 10 and 5% slides look like?
Here are better pics.
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It's hard to tell with pictures but you have the typical tinting that all these sets have. We opened a few more today and they all have the same tinting.

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post #420 of 1371 Old 05-30-2019, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by XoOledxo View Post
Here are better pics.
I see a little red on the left and a little blue on the right. To me it’s not bad and in normal viewing I thing would be less noticeable. If I couldn’t see it in panning shot I’d be fine and the dimmer the screen it looks nicely uniform. I’ve found with oled to see if it’s uniform to move my head horizontally in front of it and moving from one side to the other and if I can’t really detect a shift in color then it’s either not noticeable enough or it’s the angle which OLED is still susceptible to. And if you don’t have any pixel defects even better. That for me is a deal breaker. One pixel is bad it goes back cause I can’t unsee it.
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