2019 Sony A9G Master Series OLED Owner's Thread - Page 59 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1741 of 2164 Old 08-14-2019, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by pbz06 View Post
Do you happen to know what changes occur behind the scene in DV Bright vs DV Dark? Reason I ask is if I change all the settings to be identical to each other, there's still a slight difference in brightness.

Same thing with Custom vs Cinema. They are close to each other even after making them identical.

Just curious what is being altered in terms of "custom being more accurate" and "DV dark being more accurate".
PQ tracking is different. DV Dark is the accurate mode, not DV Bright.
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post #1742 of 2164 Old 08-14-2019, 07:45 PM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
For those of you that use DV, say I want to try it on Vudu HD or Apple Movies, with an ATV. The way I understand it is you have a Dark and Bright mode when in DV mode, and Bright is the better choice? I assume since mine is calibrated both modes carryover from the calibration? @jrref
The calibrated PMs will carry over as long as you select the calibrated Expert1 or 2 in DV PM. If you want to brighten DV dark slightly you can turn ACE on Low as per D-Nice's suggestion. I do this on my set and it works well.
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post #1743 of 2164 Old 08-14-2019, 11:11 PM
 
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Originally Posted by pbz06 View Post
Do you happen to know what changes occur behind the scene in DV Bright vs DV Dark? Reason I ask is if I change all the settings to be identical to each other, there's still a slight difference in brightness.

Same thing with Custom vs Cinema. They are close to each other even after making them identical.

Just curious what is being altered in terms of "custom being more accurate" and "DV dark being more accurate".
I use cinema for sdr/hdr10 at most of the default settings, only changes made to brightness in sdr, and reality creation and gradation settings. Cinema and custom look very close, I don't see an issue. With Dolby I started with Dolby vision dark because accuracy wise it's better but it looked too dark and I was having to make adjustments to both gamma and ACE. Dolby vision bright is better but in this mode too, I settled by making ACE low. Or I can defeat dolby vision in the Blu ray player pushing hdr10. I would like to use the dark mode but something doesn't feel right to my eyes. I had a friend who came to see my TV (in a dark room) and unlike people who are claiming dark mode with ACE low makes everything appear right, my friend pointed out the same thing I was noticing, dark looking shows on Netflix and dark scenes in batman vs Superman look way too dark with that setting, so I have to resort to DV bright. I don't know if it's panel variance or me carrying a non u.s.model with diff. firmware but DV bright is what I'm forced to resort to.
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post #1744 of 2164 Old 08-14-2019, 11:34 PM
 
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I read on an European board that Vincent teoh of hdtvtest will keep the Sony ag9 at his annual TV evaluation this coming Sunday. Other TV's will be LG C9, scamsung Q90R, and the panasonic gz2000. I read the ag9/a9g won in America earlier this year, but it's competition was LG c9 mostly. Vincent will cover the bezels and remove the stands of all TV's and have the public at the event score the picture quality.I am interested to know where my AG9 stands in relation to the gz2000. I have given my own versus impressions of the two TV's in the Panasonic gz2000 thread. Unfortunately they won't be testing Dolby vision (the biggest area where I and others find Panasonic beating Sony) because a scamsung TV is also present to be evaluated and it doesn't support DV. Gz2000's advantage is relatively lesser in hdr10 because Sony's dynamic tone mapping with 1000 nits movies works well, but still small advantage gz2000 I think (~600 nits sony vs 850 nits together with higher Avg. Pic level on panasonic is bound to make some difference in the overall impact). In sdr they are close, detail in dark scenes and no flashing issues is advantage on pana., Sony's advantage is their core upscaling engine is better, together with reality creation. And motion smoothness is still a bit better on Sony.
Last two years, at vincent's event pana has beaten sony. I'll be watching a stream of the event and I'll post the results in the gz2000 thread,it's of interest to me as one of the TV's I own and the other is on top of my wish list after I saw it.
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post #1745 of 2164 Old 08-15-2019, 04:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
The calibrated PMs will carry over as long as you select the calibrated Expert1 or 2 in DV PM. If you want to brighten DV dark slightly you can turn ACE on Low as per D-Nice's suggestion. I do this on my set and it works well.
Perfect, thanks!
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post #1746 of 2164 Old 08-15-2019, 06:07 AM
 
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Not sure if it's the same but with my ATV 4K and Z9D, I mostly watch DV content from iTunes Movies and Netflix as most new Netflix shows are Atmos + DV. To get good results and brightness quasi equal to HDR, I have DV settings set with Contrast at 95, Brightness at Max and Gamma +2. That give me same results as HDR. In fact, I like DV better than HDR10 as it looks more natural on flesh tones. My Z9D only has one DV setting.
So on a TV as bright as the ZD9/Z9D (still one of the brightest 4K lcd's 1600+ nits), you have to raise the gamma as high as +2 to make Dolby vision appear as perceptually brighter as hdr10 on that TV? Just another eyebrow raiser on sony's Dolby vision implementation.
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post #1747 of 2164 Old 08-15-2019, 06:42 AM
 
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As Columbo would say...just one more thing.

Has anyone tried or is using the center channel input for their center channel and if so, how does it sound and how well does it blend in with the main speakers?
There is an advantage and disadvantages to using the CCM. You get the impressions of vocals coming from behind the screen but if you have high end fronts L/R, then the power and tonal mismatch will become obvious. The ag9 speakers are rated total 60W, compared to my bowers diamond series fronts, this sounded thin, the bigger drawback was that the fronts use diamond tweeters so the tonal mismatching became obvious to me, I removed the wire from the back of the TV and back went the bowers Htm1 d3 centre in place. But if you don't have revealing fronts and/or you can deal with some tonal mismatching , you can try the CCM. If you don't like it , just pull the wire from the back . The CCM is a novelty feature.
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post #1748 of 2164 Old 08-15-2019, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by box4m View Post
I can second his post, and ive got the 77" - even with that size broadcast 1080i 720p looks good, sometimes i cant differentiate between 1080p and 4k movies tbh
I hear ya on that, 1080P looks so good, you just can't tell sometimes going to 4K....

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Just wondering what you guys are “feeding” your A9G beast ! My choices in the near future are (a) Charter cable, (b)DirecTV,
(C) Direct Now (streaming) (OTA realistically not an option); (d) maybe You Tube. Could you share what service(s) you have coupled with your SONY A9G and what looked the BEST with 1080i/broadcast? I’m not rich, but I just want to watch football this fall in THEE BEST picture quality and don’t care about “great $$$ deals.” Best picture quality with that A9G for programming is my goal (as I suspect it is for most on here).
Thanks !
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Subjective
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post #1749 of 2164 Old 08-15-2019, 08:30 AM
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Originally Posted by Gerry1975 View Post
So on a TV as bright as the ZD9/Z9D (still one of the brightest 4K lcd's 1600+ nits), you have to raise the gamma as high as +2 to make Dolby vision appear as perceptually brighter as hdr10 on that TV? Just another eyebrow raiser on sony's Dolby vision implementation.
and except the right to whine about it, why does it really matter?

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post #1750 of 2164 Old 08-15-2019, 08:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Gerry1975 View Post
So on a TV as bright as the ZD9/Z9D (still one of the brightest 4K lcd's 1600+ nits), you have to raise the gamma as high as +2 to make Dolby vision appear as perceptually brighter as hdr10 on that TV? Just another eyebrow raiser on sony's Dolby vision implementation.
Not sure what your point is but like I stated before, I do like Sony DV implementation better than LG DV and better than even Sony and LG HDR. Sony DV looks more natural and skin tones look just right with a real cinematic look. Sony DV implementation is the main reason I'm getting the 77A9G over the 77C9, even than the 77C9 can be bought for more than $1000 cheaper.

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post #1751 of 2164 Old 08-15-2019, 08:51 AM
 
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Not sure what your point is but like I stated before, I do like Sony DV implementation better than LG DV and better than even Sony and LG HDR. Sony DV looks more natural and skin tones look just right with a real cinematic look. Sony DV implementation is the main reason I'm getting the 77A9G over the 77C9, even than the 77C9 can be bought for more than $1000 cheaper.
What does 'more natural'mean, I was watching altered carbon and certainly looks a little blown up with skin tones and colours. And if you like the Sony DV , why are you even going on changing and raising gamma to +2, why make any changes if you like it? I also had a LG oled prior to ag9, I never remember altering a single setting from the defaults for DV.
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and except the right to whine about it, why does it really matter?
It matters because at the price I paid, I have a legitimate reason to complain if I'm not satisfied with something, this is not a cheap lcd, this is Sony's flagship and Sony had always been more expensive outside the u.s. , in us dollar terms, I paid about 4600 for this TV. It concerns me that a cheaper LG I had I found the DV better and it's a bit frustating to me that I've locked myself out of money buying this TV in June to be able to afford a panasonic gz2000 which is available to me and has great looking DV.
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post #1753 of 2164 Old 08-15-2019, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by Gerry1975 View Post
What does 'more natural'mean, I was watching altered carbon and certainly looks a little blown up with skin tones and colours. And if you like the Sony DV , why are you even going on changing and raising gamma to +2, why make any changes if you like it? I also had a LG oled prior to ag9, I never remember altering a single setting from the defaults for DV.
So why make any changes to any setting in any piece of gear, ever? I still don't see your point, as obviously most people mention the "dimness" when doing A-B comparisons. But again, nobody is saying it looks worse and nobody is saying which is wrong or correct, because nobody really knows. If you're worried about brightness, then an OLED is the wrong TV anyway. As much as you like LG's or Pana's "brighter" picture, both are way dim compared to my Z9D. It's all relative.

With the lights off, Sony's DV is just as impactful and as bright as it needs to be. Compared side by side, it's "oh yea, it's a little more dim than LG".

If you are so unhappy with the A9G, why do you still have it?

Anyway, I do have a question: If using the built-in Apps, such as Netflix, routed via ARC to my AVR receiver....what's the difference between "Cinema" and "Dolby" for the A9G sound settings? Is there a way to just send "best unaltered codec" to my receiver and let that decode Atmos or upscale to Dolby Surround?

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post #1754 of 2164 Old 08-15-2019, 09:06 AM
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There is an advantage and disadvantages to using the CCM. You get the impressions of vocals coming from behind the screen but if you have high end fronts L/R, then the power and tonal mismatch will become obvious. The ag9 speakers are rated total 60W, compared to my bowers diamond series fronts, this sounded thin, the bigger drawback was that the fronts use diamond tweeters so the tonal mismatching became obvious to me, I removed the wire from the back of the TV and back went the bowers Htm1 d3 centre in place. But if you don't have revealing fronts and/or you can deal with some tonal mismatching , you can try the CCM. If you don't like it , just pull the wire from the back . The CCM is a novelty feature.
Thank you. I have Aerial Acoustics Model 6's for the fronts and Model 5's for the rears. At one time, I also had a CC3B for the center and that blended in perfectly. I made some changes, a Pioneer plasma sitting on a new Salamander triple wide cabinet. The CC3B was too tall to fit on the Salamander in front of the Pioneer and would barely fit inside on a shelf.It sounded too boxy and there was no way to get it to sound right. So I ended up selling it and have been in phantom mode ever since. It does sound very good this way with voices emanating from the screen. I have no high expectations that the center channel capability with the Sony would match well with the main speakers, so it's nice to hear from someone who has tried it.
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So why make any changes to any setting in any piece of gear, ever? I still don't see your point, as obviously most people mention the "dimness" when doing A-B comparisons. But again, nobody is saying it looks worse and nobody is saying which is wrong or correct, because nobody really knows. If you're worried about brightness, then an OLED is the wrong TV anyway. As much as you like LG's or Pana's "brighter" picture, both are way dim compared to my Z9D. It's all relative.

With the lights off, Sony's DV is just as impactful and as bright as it needs to be. Compared side by side, it's "oh yea, it's a little more dim than LG".

If you are so unhappy with the A9G, why do you still have it?

Anyway, I do have a question: If using the built-in Apps, such as Netflix, routed via ARC to my AVR receiver....what's the difference between "Cinema" and "Dolby" for the A9G sound settings? Is there a way to just send "best unaltered codec" to my receiver and let that decode Atmos or upscale to Dolby Surround?
The question is regarding DV, not any setting on any gear, I told you never altered anything on LG for DV, from the default settings, on the pana gz2000 many settings are grayed out in DV and you cannot calibrate DV on that TV, but the default settings look great. Why don't they do on Sony, that is a point you might need to explain. I already told you, to judge correct or wrong, put the TV next to the mastering monitor, like panasonic did with their tv, would you ask Sony to do the same so we can learn the truth?

I'm satisfied with the sdr performance of this TV, 50 or more percent I watch is sdr, I'm less than satisfied with the DV performance. You advise me to sell the TV and take a loss? There is immediate depreciation, I would not get more than 60 percent of the steep price I paid when I bought new.
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Originally Posted by Gerry1975 View Post
So on a TV as bright as the ZD9/Z9D (still one of the brightest 4K lcd's 1600+ nits), you have to raise the gamma as high as +2 to make Dolby vision appear as perceptually brighter as hdr10 on that TV? Just another eyebrow raiser on sony's Dolby vision implementation.


I had the z9d as well and DV was very dark. Raising gamma made it look washier. ACE did help though. I find dv dark on my a9g to be brighter than dv was on my z9d. I find no issues with accuracy of dv bright mode in a bright room at all, and dv dark is definitely bright enough in a dark room.
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It matters because at the price I paid, I have a legitimate reason to complain if I'm not satisfied with something, this is not a cheap lcd, this is Sony's flagship and Sony had always been more expensive outside the u.s. , in us dollar terms, I paid about 4600 for this TV. It concerns me that a cheaper LG I had I found the DV better and it's a bit frustating to me that I've locked myself out of money buying this TV in June to be able to afford a panasonic gz2000 which is available to me and has great looking DV.
I dont disagree but i feel ppl, you in this case, are looking for things to whine about.

I dont disagree with a word you said, but if clicking two times on a button to increase gamma is enough to make you sit here complaining thats on you, its just ashame when you could have watched a movie instead bro
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post #1758 of 2164 Old 08-15-2019, 09:28 AM
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The question is regarding DV, not any setting on any gear, I told you never altered anything on LG for DV, from the default settings, on the pana gz2000 many settings are grayed out in DV and you cannot calibrate DV on that TV, but the default settings look great. Why don't they do on Sony, that is a point you might need to explain. I already told you, to judge correct or wrong, put the TV next to the mastering monitor, like panasonic did with their tv, would you ask Sony to do the same so we can learn the truth?

I'm satisfied with the sdr performance of this TV, 50 or more percent I watch is sdr, I'm less than satisfied with the DV performance. You advise me to sell the TV and take a loss? There is immediate depreciation, I would not get more than 60 percent of the steep price I paid when I bought new.
Are you guys accounting for the fact that LG drives their display’s white sub pixel harder than Sony? Are you guys also comparing these two brands after calibration? Are you guys also accounting for panel luminance variance that can be in the 50 to 75 nit range? Taking those items into consideration and then putting them to the side, the only thing that matters is which display follows PQ more accurately since HDR10/10+/DV is an absolute format when it comes to PQ. It is NOT relative like gamma lin the SDR space.

When you all figure out and accept the above, you can then deal with subjective tone mapping preference that varies per person.
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post #1759 of 2164 Old 08-15-2019, 09:39 AM
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The question is regarding DV, not any setting on any gear, I told you never altered anything on LG for DV, from the default settings, on the pana gz2000 many settings are grayed out in DV and you cannot calibrate DV on that TV, but the default settings look great. Why don't they do on Sony, that is a point you might need to explain. I already told you, to judge correct or wrong, put the TV next to the mastering monitor, like panasonic did with their tv, would you ask Sony to do the same so we can learn the truth?

I'm satisfied with the sdr performance of this TV, 50 or more percent I watch is sdr, I'm less than satisfied with the DV performance. You advise me to sell the TV and take a loss? There is immediate depreciation, I would not get more than 60 percent of the steep price I paid when I bought new.
Try emailing Sony or one of their engineers. You'll have better luck than bringing it up here every single time, when clearly none of us know the answer (or there is no answer) but you want to ask it out loud over and over. I do know/believe that Sony is very accurate out of the box, and once calibrated and compared to the reference monitor, it won almost every category recently over LG. DV appears to have a little more variance between implementation of blu-ray players and TV. There's really nothing else to say about it.

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post #1760 of 2164 Old 08-15-2019, 01:40 PM
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Thread rolled back to where it appeared to devolve into a comparison thread of different brands' implementation of DV.

That needs to be a different thread. This thread was set up by owners for owners of this display to discuss THIS DISPLAY. Please respect their wishes.

This is NOT a place to trash the brand or attempt to "school" owners over their decision to purchase this display.

Walking the fine line between jaw-dropping and a plain ol' yawn.
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Thread rolled back to where it appeared to devolve into a comparison thread of different brands' implementation of DV.



That needs to be a different thread. This thread was set up by owners for owners of this display to discuss THIS DISPLAY. Please respect their wishes.



This is NOT a place to trash the brand or attempt to "school" owners over their decision to purchase this display.
When non owners are chiming in with their two cents on why LG or Panasonic whoever does this or that better or differently than Sony, it gets to be very aggravating for current owners of the Sony to share information on THEIR set. Non owners need to stick to comparison threads instead of trying come here to recruit people for their own agenda.

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When non owners are chiming in with their two cents on why LG or Panasonic whoever does this or that better or differently than Sony, it gets to be very aggravating for current owners of the Sony to share information on THEIR set. Non owners need to stick to comparison threads instead of trying come here to recruit people for their own agenda.

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For some reason, this thread draws trolls like flies on &#*$.
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post #1763 of 2164 Old 08-16-2019, 04:52 AM
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For some reason, this thread draws trolls like flies on &#*$.
Not just this thread that draw trolls. It's been that way for years here. It was like that with upscaling DVD players, then BluRay players, not to mention plasmas, and now OLEDs. It's always "mine is better than yours," instead of what is supposed to be discussed here, i.e., technical aspects.
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post #1764 of 2164 Old 08-16-2019, 09:54 AM
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When non owners are chiming in with their two cents on why LG or Panasonic whoever does this or that better or differently than Sony, it gets to be very aggravating for current owners of the Sony to share information on THEIR set. Non owners need to stick to comparison threads instead of trying come here to recruit people for their own agenda.
To that end, the DV discussion now has its own thread. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-h...l#post58427958

Our goal with Owners' threads is simple. Every post has to have value to even the newest owner who may have come into the thread for the first time. There's a ton of space elsewhere in the forum to discuss any tangent that might come up. In fact, I tend to smile when I see someone post "We're getting a little off topic for this thread. I've created a new one where we can continue this discussion {LINK}." That's how forums are SUPPOSED to work.
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post #1765 of 2164 Old 08-17-2019, 09:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Got everything swapped around to a streaming-only setup, and I didn't realize how Movies Anywhere worked across my Itunes and Vudu accounts, that's nice. Anyways, I fired up Crimes of Grindelwald on the ATV4K in DV and Atmos, looks GREAT. I used DV Dark and set Automatic Contrast Enhancer to Low. I have a router with a display on the front, it seems the ATV4K will run about 5mpbs, then burst to 80mbps, and then back to 5. This cycle continues while watching the movie. I have the ATV4K hardwired to the router, and it tests out at 600mbps down which is more than enough.

I have Brightburn and the new Godzilla in the queue, will be curious to watch an entire movie streamed in DV on the A9G, but just a quick view it looked really nice.
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post #1766 of 2164 Old 08-17-2019, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Got everything swapped around to a streaming-only setup, and I didn't realize how Movies Anywhere worked across my Itunes and Vudu accounts, that's nice. Anyways, I fired up Crimes of Grindelwald on the ATV4K in DV and Atmos, looks GREAT. I used DV Dark and set Automatic Contrast Enhancer to Low. I have a router with a display on the front, it seems the ATV4K will run about 5mpbs, then burst to 80mbps, and then back to 5. This cycle continues while watching the movie. I have the ATV4K hardwired to the router, and it tests out at 600mbps down which is more than enough.

I have Brightburn and the new Godzilla in the queue, will be curious to watch an entire movie streamed in DV on the A9G, but just a quick view it looked really nice.
I literally watch all my movies on DV in my Z9D with ATV 4K. This applies to iTunes and VUDU movies and Netflix DV shows and movies. They all look GREAT to me. Last month I almost reached my 1TB monthly data cap after watching almost 120 hours of Netflix DV shows (The OA (2 seasons), DARK (season 3), Jessica Jones (3 seasons)and Dark Devil (3 seasons)). Each hour of Netflix DV show/movie counts for 8.5GB of data.
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post #1767 of 2164 Old 08-17-2019, 10:33 AM
 
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What is the signal on this TV that an auto comp cycle has commenced? No click sound I can hear and the bare-bones manual says nothing about it. I like to turn off my gizmos from the power outlet, I need to know when this thing is running an auto cycle so I can hold off. In the scenario where the TV is not able to run auto cycles, what is the negative consequences? Far as Mura goes, banding/tinting , panel looks relatively clean when running 4 and 100% slides posted on YouTube, I actually don't want auto comp cycles to change the uniformity from what I currently have.
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post #1768 of 2164 Old 08-17-2019, 10:41 AM
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I just calibrated my 77AG9 by myself.
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post #1769 of 2164 Old 08-17-2019, 10:45 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
I literally watch all my movies on DV in my Z9D with ATV 4K. This applies to iTunes and VUDU movies and Netflix DV shows and movies. They all look GREAT to me. Last month I almost reached my 1TB monthly data cap after watching almost 120 hours of Netflix DV shows (The OA (2 seasons), DARK (season 3), Jessica Jones (3 seasons)and Dark Devil (3 seasons)). Each hour of Netflix DV show/movie counts for 8.5GB of data.
I found I check out Netflix playing any video and see the tech info, I see only 15.26 Mbps even with 4k hdr on Netflix. Is it just for me or my connection or everybody gets the same rate? Why are the video bitrates on Netflix so low when they charge so much?
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post #1770 of 2164 Old 08-17-2019, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerry1975 View Post
I found I check out Netflix playing any video and see the tech info, I see only 15.26 Mbps even with 4k hdr on Netflix. Is it just for me or my connection or everybody gets the same rate? Why are the video bitrates on Netflix so low when they charge so much?
I get the same rate, and I have a 1Gbps fiber connection, so it's not for lack of bandwidth.
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