Value Electronics 2019 TV Shootout evaluation event June 12, 2019 - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #151 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 03:57 PM
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Not surprising, I have owned plenty of both, Sony is just a better display and a company with better engineers. You may not like it, it is what it is. Every year the same people act surprised, and then say things like "well the LG is cheaper", "well the LG has better lag", "well the LG was close". Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Now on to 2020, where we can see the same result, and the same characters saying the same things in next years shootout...
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post #152 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
If LG had succeeded in releasing their 3.5ms MPRT / 240Hz Effective Refresh Rate technology on the C9, they may well have bested the A9G in motion resolution...
But wouldn't that technology also be available for use by Sony in its OLED too?
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post #153 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 04:04 PM
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Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
I mean we should all be honest. For the movie and tv viewer and no gaming, you can buy the Sony but spend over 20% more for it.

The LG is so close that when you factor in price, hdmi 2.1, and the incredible gaming performance it’s a better “all around” tv.

So at the end of the day, depending on a user needs you choose one or the other if price is no issue. That’s the bottom line. Otherwise they are both very good TVs.

Did panel uniformity conversations come up at all? Just curious...
I don't know about the incredible gaming performance. At the very beginning, they were testing latency with a new tool that attempted to generate realistic color/lighting of a game, and the C9 and A9G were fairly close. I don't have the latency numbers, but they were all way WAY higher than the what's currently being published as latency - I think they were all over 70 ms.
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post #154 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 04:13 PM
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Originally Posted by 8KCRT View Post
But wouldn't that technology also be available for use by Sony in its OLED too?


Yes.


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post #155 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 04:16 PM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Not surprising, I have owned plenty of both, Sony is just a better display and a company with better engineers. You may not like it, it is what it is. Every year the same people act surprised, and then say things like "well the LG is cheaper", "well the LG has better lag", "well the LG was close". Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Now on to 2020, where we can see the same result, and the same characters saying the same things in next years shootout...


Exactly. These ratings are just numbers on an arbitrary scale. Not actual measurements of the displays performance. You can’t really use them in a price for performance comparison.


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post #156 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 04:26 PM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Not surprising, I have owned plenty of both, Sony is just a better display and a company with better engineers. You may not like it, it is what it is. Every year the same people act surprised, and then say things like "well the LG is cheaper", "well the LG has better lag", "well the LG was close". Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Now on to 2020, where we can see the same result, and the same characters saying the same things in next years shootout...
I’m not pro either one. I’d have gotten a Sony if it had hdmi 2.1 as next year’s consoles are important to me. Technically it’s all the same panels from LG, but Sony has better processing and engineering...not better panel per se 🙂

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Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
I mean we should all be honest. For the movie and tv viewer and no gaming, you can buy the Sony but spend over 20% more for it.

The LG is so close that when you factor in price, hdmi 2.1, and the incredible gaming performance it’s a better “all around” tv.

So at the end of the day, depending on a user needs you choose one or the other if price is no issue. That’s the bottom line. Otherwise they are both very good TVs.

Did panel uniformity conversations come up at all? Just curious...
I don't know about the incredible gaming performance. At the very beginning, they were testing latency with a new tool that attempted to generate realistic color/lighting of a game, and the C9 and A9G were fairly close. I don't have the latency numbers, but they were all way WAY higher than the what's currently being published as latency - I think they were all over 70 ms.
I’m not sure where you got your info. The A9G is coming in at 26ms with the LGs at 13ms for 4K SDR/HDR. When I refer to gaming performance I was also referencing if you’re gonna buy a tv this year and be an early adopter of next gen consoles next year, you’re gonna want 2.1 on your set. Game mode is fully able to be calibrated too now.

Again, I’m not defending on brand over the other. It’s really simple recommendation...

If you game a decent amount of time (subjective) but says 40-50% or more or want next gen consoles, go for LG. If not, then take the Sony.

If LG could have the upscaling processing and motion of Sony (which it’s close but still Sony ahead), then it’s a different ball game.

I think Sony will always win these types of shootouts because of the money they spend on processing technology, etc.

LG could if they invested enough. Same way they could make 100% perfect panels with no tint or banding, except they’d just be really expensive.

At least Sony didn’t way over price out of the gate but the $300 difference is now closer to $900 difference if you factor in LG at $3200 with $300 gift cards BB is offering as of now. That’s a pretty big difference and why LGs will always outsell Sony.
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post #157 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 04:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Micolash View Post
Exactly. These ratings are just numbers on an arbitrary scale. Not actual measurements of the displays performance. You can’t really use them in a price for performance comparison.
Which is why this yearly "event" is a complete waste of time.
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post #158 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 04:41 PM
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post #159 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
No motion settings used.

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Was a specific motion resolution test performed?


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post #160 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 04:57 PM
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8k discussion on Thursday, is it streaming LIVE?

I thought I heard Robert say this morning the 8k panel discussion on Thursday would be streamed live at 9:30am. Can anyone confirm?

Thanks.
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post #161 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 05:03 PM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Not surprising, I have owned plenty of both, Sony is just a better display and a company with better engineers. You may not like it, it is what it is. Every year the same people act surprised, and then say things like "well the LG is cheaper", "well the LG has better lag", "well the LG was close". Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Now on to 2020, where we can see the same result, and the same characters saying the same things in next years shootout...
It was designed to manage 8K image processing, so it looks like we have yet to see the limits of this processor - the bottleneck is really LG's OLED panels.
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post #162 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 05:08 PM
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Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
I’m not sure where you got your info. The A9G is coming in at 26ms with the LGs at 13ms for 4K SDR/HDR. When I refer to gaming performance I was also referencing if you’re gonna buy a tv this year and be an early adopter of next gen consoles next year, you’re gonna want 2.1 on your set. Game mode is fully able to be calibrated too now.

Again, I’m not defending on brand over the other. It’s really simple recommendation...

If you game a decent amount of time (subjective) but says 40-50% or more or want next gen consoles, go for LG. If not, then take the Sony.

If LG could have the upscaling processing and motion of Sony (which it’s close but still Sony ahead), then it’s a different ball game.

I think Sony will always win these types of shootouts because of the money they spend on processing technology, etc.
My latency comment was from measurements taken at the beginning of this shootout for all 4 TVs. Before they started comparing picture quality, they shared latency numbers using a more accurate measure that specifically ran graphics in a way that best duplicates gaming rather than those blinking dots which, unless you're playing Pong, is not an accurate reflection of latency for gaming.
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post #163 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 05:10 PM
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Originally Posted by VA_DaveB View Post
Which is why this yearly "event" is a complete waste of time.
Hardly a waste of time at all. They directly compared all 4 TVs to the Sony reference monitor that was used by studios to master the movies being shown so the scoring was relative to how closely these TVs came to the reference monitor (the $22,000 TV that lasts barely a year before burning out).
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post #164 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 05:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Micolash View Post
Was a specific motion resolution test performed?


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No there wasn't. There was nothing gaming about this shootout. It's movies, TV shows and sports.

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post #165 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 05:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by jenix View Post
I thought I heard Robert say this morning the 8k panel discussion on Thursday would be streamed live at 9:30am. Can anyone confirm?



Thanks.
I'll find out but I don't think it is.

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post #166 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 05:12 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 8KCRT View Post
Hardly a waste of time at all. They directly compared all 4 TVs to the Sony reference monitor that was used by studios to master the movies being shown so the scoring was relative to how closely these TVs came to the reference monitor (the $22,000 TV that lasts barely a year before burning out).
I was told 42k for the BVM.

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post #167 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 05:13 PM
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I'll find out but I don't think it is.

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post #168 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 8KCRT View Post
My latency comment was from measurements taken at the beginning of this shootout for all 4 TVs. Before they started comparing picture quality, they shared latency numbers using a more accurate measure that specifically ran graphics in a way that best duplicates gaming rather than those blinking dots which, unless you're playing Pong, is not an accurate reflection of latency for gaming.
Yea it was video latency I believe.... Not a flash image. Seems more realistic.... But it's a new method with new measuring equipment. The Sony's measured the lowest in game mode.

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post #169 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
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post #170 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 05:19 PM
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Yea it was video latency I believe.... Not a flash image. Seems more realistic.... But it's a new method with new measuring equipment. The Sony's measured the lowest in game mode.

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So the way we measured lag before is not accurate?


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post #171 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 05:22 PM - Thread Starter
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So the way we measured lag before is not accurate?


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The way I understand it, it's more of an image flash. A small white image. Doesn't take much processing for that to happen. I'm not expert though.

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post #172 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 07:00 PM
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I was told 42k for the BVM.

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You might be right about the price but because of decline of status it is worth less money (t is replaced as top of the line by a dual layer LCD, which they could not get unfortunately).
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post #173 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 07:05 PM - Thread Starter
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You might be right about the price but because of decline of status it is worth less money (t is replaced as top of the line by a dual layer LCD, which they could not get unfortunately).
Honestly it didn't matter because nothing shown at the shootout has been done using the BVMx310. Next year could be a different story

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post #174 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by 8KCRT View Post
Hardly a waste of time at all. They directly compared all 4 TVs to the Sony reference monitor that was used by studios to master the movies being shown so the scoring was relative to how closely these TVs came to the reference monitor (the $22,000 TV that lasts barely a year before burning out).
Been reading about that ''Metameric Failure'' which seems to be a LED and OLED problem. Did they use a alternative white point to get the TVs closer to the reference monitor?
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post #175 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 07:38 PM
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So the way we measured lag before is not accurate?


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The way I understand it, it's more of an image flash. A small white image. Doesn't take much processing for that to happen. I'm not expert though.

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Exactly how I understand it as well.
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post #176 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 07:51 PM
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Been reading about that ''Metameric Failure'' which seems to be a LED and OLED problem. Did they use a alternative white point to get the TVs closer to the reference monitor?


Yes all the TVs each used a custom white point that perceptually matched the X300.
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Not surprising, I have owned plenty of both, Sony is just a better display and a company with better engineers. You may not like it, it is what it is. Every year the same people act surprised, and then say things like "well the LG is cheaper", "well the LG has better lag", "well the LG was close". Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Now on to 2020, where we can see the same result, and the same characters saying the same things in next years shootout...
Agree. I must add that not only Sony has the resources but add to that that they are involve in the whole chain from producing the movies we watch, the cameras, editing equipment, mastering monitors like the used as reference today at the event... Just that give Sony the advantage over LG by miles. Would ever LG catch Sony? I don't think so...

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post #178 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 08:09 PM
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Agree. I must add that not only Sony has the resources but add to that that they are involve in the whole chain from producing the movies we watch, the cameras, editing equipment, mastering monitors like the used as reference today at the event... Just that give Sony the advantage over LG by miles. Would ever LG catch Sony? I don't think so...
Good grief, the results were extremely close, not ‘miles apart’ as your post implies. In fact, putting them in separate rooms with the names concealed, it’s highly likely you wouldn’t know which is which. Further, if attendees were voting as in the past, the results might have been different too.

We go through this nonsense every year.
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post #179 of 428 Old 06-12-2019, 08:14 PM
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I’m not pro either one. I’d have gotten a Sony if it had hdmi 2.1 as next year’s consoles are important to me. Technically it’s all the same panels from LG, but Sony has better processing and engineering...not better panel per se 🙂

I’m not sure where you got your info. The A9G is coming in at 26ms with the LGs at 13ms for 4K SDR/HDR. When I refer to gaming performance I was also referencing if you’re gonna buy a tv this year and be an early adopter of next gen consoles next year, you’re gonna want 2.1 on your set. Game mode is fully able to be calibrated too now.

I don't necessarily agree with that. I don't see 4k/120 fps being viable for most games and a locked 4k/60 fps is far more realistic, so I am not sure HDMI 2.1 will be as critical as some believe. I've bought pretty much every PS console when it launched, so I am by definition an early adopter, and if I'm wrong, I'll buy another TV in a couple of years when HDMI 2.1 is mature.
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Originally Posted by enricoclaudio View Post
Not a surprise here. Sony OLED again the King of TVs 2019.
Well that probably will not change until a new technology de-thrown's OLED.
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Closed Thread OLED Technology and Flat Panels General

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