Value Electronics 2019 TV Shootout evaluation event June 12, 2019 - Page 8 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 549Likes
 
Thread Tools
post #211 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 04:55 AM
Senior Member
 
GregF2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Posts: 376
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 157 Post(s)
Liked: 113
Results were so close between Sony and LG that most of the public would not even know the difference. LG has definitely improved motion. Sony is definitely not miles ahead, but if people are gamers then LG wins. Both are great tv's and can't go wrong with either.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
Not surprising, I have owned plenty of both, Sony is just a better display and a company with better engineers. You may not like it, it is what it is. Every year the same people act surprised, and then say things like "well the LG is cheaper", "well the LG has better lag", "well the LG was close". Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades. Now on to 2020, where we can see the same result, and the same characters saying the same things in next years shootout...

Last edited by GregF2; 06-13-2019 at 05:02 AM.
GregF2 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #212 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 04:58 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
shoman94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 7,207
Mentioned: 203 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5071 Post(s)
Liked: 3581
Quote:
Originally Posted by bootymonger View Post
Did some uncalibrated scoring happen? Results there?



"I have received confirmation that they will be scoring OOTB {factory Cal} in all of the picture quality attributes, e.g. color fidelity, color saturation, color volume, contrast, and motion resolution. They will put all of the TVs in the best picture quality mode, but not calibrated."
There was some limitations on the Samsung and Sony with available modes that they couldn't do it so they decided not to this year.

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sony LCD Master Series Calibration Thread
My P75-C1 Calibration Settings (5.0.14.1).
Sony XBR-75Z9F, Vizio P75-C1, Pioneer Kuro 5020, Pioneer VSX-1131, XBox One(X), Wii, NVIDIA SHIELD.v1, FireTV 4K-HDR, HDHR Connects, QNAP 431+
shoman94 is offline  
post #213 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 05:01 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
shoman94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 7,207
Mentioned: 203 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5071 Post(s)
Liked: 3581
Quote:
Originally Posted by imagic View Post
None of this makes sense. If graphical complexity affected lag in game mode then frame rates would be wildly inconsistent based on that alone.



I'm not buying the notion that out of the blue, all prior latency measurements are wildly incorrect.



Joel and Kevin are welcome to convince me otherwise.
I don't think anyone is saying it's wrong. They are 2 different ways of measuring. Maybe I can get more info from Matt Murray I get back to you.

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sony LCD Master Series Calibration Thread
My P75-C1 Calibration Settings (5.0.14.1).
Sony XBR-75Z9F, Vizio P75-C1, Pioneer Kuro 5020, Pioneer VSX-1131, XBox One(X), Wii, NVIDIA SHIELD.v1, FireTV 4K-HDR, HDHR Connects, QNAP 431+
shoman94 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #214 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 05:04 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
shoman94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 7,207
Mentioned: 203 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5071 Post(s)
Liked: 3581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
I agree, better blooming control and probably better black levels. I was sure it would take 3rd place, but in my brief stint with the Q90 I was less than wowed with its color.
It's not really better blacks.... They crush blacks. They turn off the LEDs early.

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sony LCD Master Series Calibration Thread
My P75-C1 Calibration Settings (5.0.14.1).
Sony XBR-75Z9F, Vizio P75-C1, Pioneer Kuro 5020, Pioneer VSX-1131, XBox One(X), Wii, NVIDIA SHIELD.v1, FireTV 4K-HDR, HDHR Connects, QNAP 431+
shoman94 is offline  
post #215 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 05:06 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
shoman94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 7,207
Mentioned: 203 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5071 Post(s)
Liked: 3581
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
^All other 3 competing tv's were 2019 models, only the z9f was the odd one out, being carried over from last year and being given a 'second chance'. though sony hasnt dropped supply of the z9f, i would have preferred the newest z9g to be among the competing tv's. doesnt matter if it's 8k, could have evaluated 4k content on it just like the other tv's.
But you're talking an 85" against 3 65" TV's. Let's also not forget that you can't get one until Monday.

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sony LCD Master Series Calibration Thread
My P75-C1 Calibration Settings (5.0.14.1).
Sony XBR-75Z9F, Vizio P75-C1, Pioneer Kuro 5020, Pioneer VSX-1131, XBox One(X), Wii, NVIDIA SHIELD.v1, FireTV 4K-HDR, HDHR Connects, QNAP 431+
shoman94 is offline  
post #216 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 05:11 AM
 
Menarini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: India/Working abroad
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 857 Post(s)
Liked: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
You're missing the point. The point is that if Sony's tech was so far superior to LG, they would have come up with their own flavor of OLED just as Samsung did.
It is you who's missing the point. We are not claiming the sony "tech" is better. We know all oled tv panels come from the same supplier (lg display) and use the same tech (white oled), whether you buy a sony, lg, panasonic, philips or whichever oled tv. We are rather claiming that sony's processing is better (not "tech"). Since oled panels are the same, we already know before going into the shootouts, that the differences in picture quality at the shootout will mostly boil down to whose processing is superior. And that's what we evaluate at shootouts. And while lge has surely made improvements with the alpha 9 gen. 2 over their last year's model, but it's still not on the same level as the X1 ultimate.
Menarini is offline  
post #217 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 05:32 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
egrady's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: San Antonio, TX USA
Posts: 1,458
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 381 Post(s)
Liked: 170
Quote:
Originally Posted by shoman94 View Post
Better blooming control but to much crush. I think if you combined them in the middle it would be a great compromise. They all had their pluses and minuses. It was crazy how in one scene 2 would match the BVM and another scene the other 2 would match the BVM. It went back and forth the whole shootout even with test patterns.

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk
Would it be possible to obtain a middle ground, at least in part, by reducing brightness control a bit on the Sony and raising it some on the Samsung?

What I'd like to know is how much leverage the end user would have to reduce the black crush on the Samsung, or to tweak the Sony, by using the picture settings?

Even though the 85Z9G wasn't in the test I'm disappointed the judges didn't at least comment on same.
egrady is offline  
post #218 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 05:38 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 361
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 286 Post(s)
Liked: 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
How soon they forget.



It’s really amusing to see some go on about how Sony’s tech leaves LG in the dust, yet it’s LG supplying OLED panels to Sony, not the other way around. If Sony’s tech was so superior, it would be Sony supplying their OLEDs to LG.


LG electronics does not supply the OLED panel either. Both companies are just oems.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sony 55A9F
LG 55B6
Micolash is offline  
post #219 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 05:40 AM
 
Menarini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: India/Working abroad
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 857 Post(s)
Liked: 390
Vincent did a review on the z9g on youtube where he claims the z9g has some of the most impressive hdr he has seen on a retail tv (measurement after D65 calibration came to around 4000 nits), the z9g at least deserved a comment but they just ignored it. hopefully at vincent's shootout, he could include the tv as part of the shootout, if one of those uk retailers can loan out a unit to him.
Menarini is offline  
post #220 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 05:41 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2018
Posts: 361
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 286 Post(s)
Liked: 187
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
You're missing the point. The point is that if Sony's tech was so far superior to LG, they would have come up with their own flavor of OLED just as Samsung did.



The other point that will never be brought up in shootouts and is only occasionally brought up in the better reviews, is the OS. IMO the LG OS is far superior to Sony's. Reviews that do assess that have agreed. Part of the enjoyment of a TV is navigating the OS. An OS that periodically crashes or slows, is not much fun.


You can have your opinion but the os on the a9g is fast and doesn’t crash.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Spizz and OLED4UNME like this.

Sony 55A9F
LG 55B6
Micolash is offline  
post #221 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 06:16 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
JD23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dallas
Posts: 2,060
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 558 Post(s)
Liked: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
You realize that there’s plenty of games at 4k/60 hdr right now? There will absolutely be a push for 4k/120, it’s going to be achievable.

Hell wasn't microsoft just saying this week they can pump out 8k/30 on Scarlett console?

A few problems with your argument:
1) On the Sony side, PS4 Pro doesn't even render in native 4k, it uses a checkerboard rendering technique and even then, can only render most new games at 4k/30 fps. Native 4k at 60 fps will be a significant jump. PS3 could not consistently render 720p at 60 fps, the original PS4 could not render 1080p at 60 fps, yet you expect PS5 to render 4k at far more than 60 fps?

2) There is far more to graphic quality than simply resolution and frame rate, and game developers often use GPU cycles for more detailed graphical effects at the expense of resolution and/or frame rate. I expect that most developers will prefer 4k/60 as a target because the difference in 120 fps vs. 60 fps will be less noticeable than the decrease in graphical quality required to render 120 fps instead of 60 fps.

Regarding MS, I don't see why you are taking E3 promises so literally. Technically, their new console probably will be able to render 8k/30 fps, except that will only be feasible for remastered previous generation games, not for new games, as the sacrifice in overall detail will be too great.
Ruppgu likes this.

Last edited by JD23; 06-13-2019 at 06:34 AM.
JD23 is offline  
post #222 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 06:31 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
JD23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Dallas
Posts: 2,060
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 558 Post(s)
Liked: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
You're missing the point. The point is that if Sony's tech was so far superior to LG, they would have come up with their own flavor of OLED just as Samsung did.

The other point that will never be brought up in shootouts and is only occasionally brought up in the better reviews, is the OS. IMO the LG OS is far superior to Sony's. Reviews that do assess that have agreed. Part of the enjoyment of a TV is navigating the OS. An OS that periodically crashes or slows, is not much fun.

Sony left the display manufacturing business because it is an extremely capital intensive business with low margins and Sony could not reduce costs sufficiently to compete with lower-cost manufacturers in Korea and China. Panasonic came to a similar conclusion after almost going out of business. Sony's last few years have been the most profitable in its history and its previously money-losing TV business is in far better shape than when it was manufacturing its own panels.
JD23 is offline  
post #223 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 06:36 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,190
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7370 Post(s)
Liked: 8247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
It is you who's missing the point. We are not claiming the sony "tech" is better. We know all oled tv panels come from the same supplier (lg display) and use the same tech (white oled), whether you buy a sony, lg, panasonic, philips or whichever oled tv. We are rather claiming that sony's processing is better (not "tech"). Since oled panels are the same, we already know before going into the shootouts, that the differences in picture quality at the shootout will mostly boil down to whose processing is superior. And that's what we evaluate at shootouts. And while lge has surely made improvements with the alpha 9 gen. 2 over their last year's model, but it's still not on the same level as the X1 ultimate.
Sorry, your use of ‘we’ is incorrect. Some are saying their tech is better. If by ‘we’ you mean ‘I’, that’s fine.

The bottom line is that these 2 OLEDs are so close that most would never notice the difference and if put in separate rooms it’s likely most wouldn’t know which was which. I’ve attended many of these shootouts and I’ve lost count the number of times attendees press their noses against the screen to see tiny differences. Now move these people to a normal seating distance, and these small differences further evaporate.

It’s just amusing to see how these small differences are embellished to the point where someone reading these posts and unfamiliar with the displays, would think there are large quality differences between the two. There simply aren’t and no hyperbole will change that. But it won’t stop the Sony crowd, it never does.

I don’t expect you to agree, we never do.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #224 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 06:38 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,190
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7370 Post(s)
Liked: 8247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micolash View Post
LG electronics does not supply the OLED panel either. Both companies are just oems.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I’m well aware of it. It’s only been repeated in various threads numerous times.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #225 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 06:39 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,190
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7370 Post(s)
Liked: 8247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micolash View Post
You can have your opinion but the os on the a9g is fast and doesn’t crash.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
It’s not just my opinion.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #226 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 06:42 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,190
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7370 Post(s)
Liked: 8247
Quote:
Originally Posted by JD23 View Post
Sony left the display manufacturing business because it is an extremely capital intensive business with low margins and Sony could not reduce costs sufficiently to compete with lower-cost manufacturers in Korea and China. Panasonic came to a similar conclusion after almost going out of business. Sony's last few years have been the most profitable in its history and its previously money-losing TV business is in far better shape than when it was manufacturing its own panels.
Part of ingenuity is producing great products at relatively low costs. Sony was never good at that when it came to displays.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #227 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 06:44 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New York
Posts: 5,426
Mentioned: 193 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4469 Post(s)
Liked: 5476
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
I have seen them side by side, i was at the store few weeks backs and though im not interested in buying a lcd, i still compared the performance. In relatively bright conditions, i thought the samsung q90r had better contrast punch than the z9f, as well as slightly better black bar blooming control. And Q90R's AR filter to shun off reflections works a lot better than sony. Things would probably be different if the Z9G was being compared to the Q90R. The shootout didn't include the Z9G among the competitors ( which i think it should have) because q90r is a 2019 model and z9f is a 2018.
I can say this now that the TV shootout is over. The Samsung Q90R has a really nice bright picture but what we saw was it falling down with darker scenes. Not totally near black like in the Harry Potter movie but just darker scenes overall. I also feel the Q90R is a huge improvement in picture quality over last years Q9F.
shoman94 likes this.

John
Sony 55A1E, A9F / LG 55OLEDC8
Marantz 7012, Ohm Walsh Speakers
Klein K10-A, Jeti 1501, Murideo Six-G Gen2
Calman Ultimate, ISF Level III Certified
jrref is offline  
post #228 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 06:45 AM
 
Menarini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: India/Working abroad
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 857 Post(s)
Liked: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
Sorry, your use of ‘we’ is incorrect. Some are saying their tech is better. If by ‘we’ you mean ‘I’, that’s fine.

The bottom line is that these 2 OLEDs are so close that most would never notice the difference and if put in separate rooms it’s likely most wouldn’t know which was which. I’ve attended many of these shootouts and I’ve lost count the number of times attendees press their noses against the screen to see tiny differences. Now move these people to a normal seating distance, and these small differences further evaporate.

It’s just amusing to see how these small differences are embellished to the point where someone reading these posts and unfamiliar with the displays, would think there are large quality differences between the two. There simply aren’t and no hyperbole will change that. But it won’t stop the Sony crowd, it never does.

I don’t expect you to agree, we never do.
I think you are miscontruing what some may be meaning by the use of the term 'tech', they are implying sony's superior processing.

Far as processing differences go, the differences are noticeable to me. I can tell the difference between the displays if theyre kept in separate rooms and the bezels are hid. The tv with slightly higher APL (avg. pic. level) will be LG and the tv showing more instances of color banding, less smoother movie motion and more noise and grain when playing a 480i youtube video will also be LG
OLED4UNME likes this.
Menarini is offline  
post #229 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 06:51 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: New York
Posts: 5,426
Mentioned: 193 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4469 Post(s)
Liked: 5476
The other thing to consider is some people were saying the LG had a brighter and slightly more saturated HDR picture which is true but that's a decision that LG made because I guess they feel that's what consumers like. If you remember D-Nice and I saw and reported this when the sets first came out. Calibration helps this but it's not 100%. But the judges at this TV Shootout were mostly colorists and other trained professionals who would pick the more "accurate" TV vs the one with more "pop" which could have accounted for them preferring the Sony A9G since the two sets are very close.

John
Sony 55A1E, A9F / LG 55OLEDC8
Marantz 7012, Ohm Walsh Speakers
Klein K10-A, Jeti 1501, Murideo Six-G Gen2
Calman Ultimate, ISF Level III Certified
jrref is offline  
post #230 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 06:55 AM
AVS Forum Addicted Member
 
Ken Ross's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: N.Y.
Posts: 33,190
Mentioned: 28 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7370 Post(s)
Liked: 8247
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
I think you are miscontruing what some may be meaning by the use of the term 'tech', they are implying sony's superior processing.

Far as processing differences go, the differences are noticeable to me. I can tell the difference between the displays if theyre kept in separate rooms and the bezels are hid. The tv with slightly higher APL (avg. pic. level) will be LG and the tv showing more instances of color banding, less smoother movie motion and more noise and grain when playing a 480i youtube video will also be LG
I can’t recall the last time I watched a 480i anything, YouTube or whatever. But display higher rez sources (1080i and above), and those differences are so subtle that I absolutely stand by what I said. 480i is crap no matter how you slice it, whether displayed on a Sony or anything else. If you feel it looks ‘good’ on a Sony, then we have very different definitions of ‘good’. If I watched a significant amount of 480i content, I’d watch it on a small, cheap, no name Walmart TV.

As to what others mean by the use of ‘tech’, that’s just your guess. You’d have to ask them. I’ve been around AVS a lot longer than you, and you’d be very surprised at what some mean by ‘tech’.
dreaux and dfa973 like this.
Ken Ross is offline  
post #231 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 07:04 AM
 
Menarini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: India/Working abroad
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 857 Post(s)
Liked: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
I can’t recall the last time I watched a 480i anything, YouTube or whatever. But display higher rez sources (1080i and above), and those differences are so subtle that I absolutely stand by what I said. 480i is crap no matter how you slice it, whether displayed on a Sony or anything else. If you feel it looks ‘good’ on a Sony, then we have very different definitions of ‘good’. If I watched a significant amount of 480i content, I’d watch it on a small, cheap, no name Walmart TV.
No it doesnt look 'good' on sony, it looks tolerable on sony, it looks almost unwatchable at times on lg. I connect retro game consoles with a cvbs connection, they only do standard def. so it matters to me, so it's not just 480i youtube vids is what i'm after. And 1080i cable tv sony still has some advantage, with 1080p i would say that advantage does not exist.
OLED4UNME likes this.
Menarini is offline  
post #232 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 07:04 AM
Advanced Member
 
gossamer88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: NYC
Posts: 525
Mentioned: 5 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 298 Post(s)
Liked: 180
I was at the event. And I picked the Sony OLED. It just edged out the LG. The two are very close. The Sony IMO had slightly better color accuracy. As well as slightly better Dynamic Range.

They had a streaming test for the first time. They were using the native Netflix app via wifi (100Mbps) and played a scene from Lucifer. They ALL looked great.

The Samsung was last for me. It could not keep up with the OLEDs during the test pattern phase. But when it played real-world footage (UHD/HDR Aquaman for example) it looked very good.

Had a great time at the event and all-in-all there really wasn't a loser in the bunch.
Spizz, Ken Ross, rossi46 and 6 others like this.

LG OLED 65C7P • Apple TV 4K • Roku Ultra 2018 • Oppo BDP-103 Blu-ray • LG UP970 UHD BD
Denon X3400H AVR • Paradigm Cinema 110 CT Speaker System
gossamer88 is offline  
post #233 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 07:07 AM
 
Menarini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: India/Working abroad
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 857 Post(s)
Liked: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
The other thing to consider is some people were saying the LG had a brighter and slightly more saturated HDR picture which is true but that's a decision that LG made because I guess they feel that's what consumers like. If you remember D-Nice and I saw and reported this when the sets first came out. Calibration helps this but it's not 100%. But the judges at this TV Shootout were mostly colorists and other trained professionals who would pick the more "accurate" TV vs the one with more "pop" which could have accounted for them preferring the Sony A9G since the two sets are very close.
Samsung last year got some slack for inaccurate EOTF tracking, and that is the route lg took this year? To please the average joe crowd with 'brighter'? Not sure there are videophiles out there who like brighter that comes at the expense of accuracy.
Menarini is offline  
post #234 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 07:08 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
guitarguy316's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 2,789
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2101 Post(s)
Liked: 791
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
It is you who's missing the point. We are not claiming the sony "tech" is better. We know all oled tv panels come from the same supplier (lg display) and use the same tech (white oled), whether you buy a sony, lg, panasonic, philips or whichever oled tv. We are rather claiming that sony's processing is better (not "tech"). Since oled panels are the same, we already know before going into the shootouts, that the differences in picture quality at the shootout will mostly boil down to whose processing is superior. And that's what we evaluate at shootouts. And while lge has surely made improvements with the alpha 9 gen. 2 over their last year's model, but it's still not on the same level as the X1 ultimate.
I agree Sony's tech in terms of just picture processing (including scaling and motion) is better. To most, it is not $900 better when you see how close the results are. That's the point I think some are trying to make.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JD23 View Post
A few problems with your argument:
1) On the Sony side, PS4 Pro doesn't even render in native 4k, it uses a checkerboard rendering technique and even then, can only render most new games at 4k/30 fps. Native 4k at 60 fps will be a significant jump. PS3 could not consistently render 720p at 60 fps, the original PS4 could not render 1080p at 60 fps, yet you expect PS5 to render 4k at far more than 60 fps?

2) There is far more to graphic quality than simply resolution and frame rate, and game developers often use GPU cycles for more detailed graphical effects at the expense of resolution and/or frame rate. I expect that most developers will prefer 4k/60 as a target because the difference in 120 fps vs. 60 fps will be less noticeable than the decrease in graphical quality required to render 120 fps instead of 60 fps.

Regarding MS, I don't see why you are taking E3 promises so literally. Technically, their new console probably will be able to render 8k/30 fps, except that will only be feasible for remastered previous generation games, not for new games, as the sacrifice in overall detail will be too great.

I use Xbox One X and they have NATIVE 4K games at 30-60FPS. I really think you're trying to justify your non 2.1 Sony...I mean we're are trying to speak in facts here. My point is if you are spending almost $4K on a 65" OLED in 2019, the value proposition LG offers INCLUDING HDMI 2.1 puts you a great position to utilize the next-gen consoles in 2020 and beyond.

I'm sure Sony's A9H or whatever 2020 brings will have 2.1 but ignoring that it will be useful to have for GAMERS built into your TV for the next 2-5 years (or whenever the average consumer would buy a new tv) is important to the decision making process.

I would have bought a Sony OLED this year if they had 2.1 because I value the need for future gaming features over the image processing debate.

Last edited by guitarguy316; 06-13-2019 at 07:12 AM.
guitarguy316 is offline  
post #235 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 07:12 AM
 
Menarini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: India/Working abroad
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 857 Post(s)
Liked: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by guitarguy316 View Post
I agree Sony's tech in terms of just picture processing (including scaling and motion) is better. To most, it is not $900 better when you see how close the results are. That's the point I think some are trying to make.
$900? the msrp in the u.s. suggests a 300 usd difference (3500 vs 3800?). And we have a a9g owner here saying he got a a9g cheaper than a c9. Im not aware of how street pricing or discounts in the u.s. go. Where i am, the difference in u.s. dollar terms would be less than 200 usd , the a9g is slightly more.
Menarini is offline  
post #236 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 07:13 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
helvetica bold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,462
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1714 Post(s)
Liked: 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by GregF2 View Post
Results were so close between Sony and LG that most of the public would not even know the difference. LG has definitely improved motion. Sony is definitely not miles ahead, but if people are gamers then LG wins. Both are great tv's and can't go wrong with either.


This 100%! Overall Sony scored 2-3% higher than LG. If anything attending the shootout made me feel better about buying the C9.
There are subtle differences between the displays.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ken Ross likes this.

LG65C9, XBOX ONE X, PS4PRO, APPLE 4K, SONY STRDN1070, TAKE CLASSIC 5.1
helvetica bold is offline  
post #237 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 07:18 AM
 
Menarini's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2018
Location: India/Working abroad
Posts: 1,004
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 857 Post(s)
Liked: 390
Quote:
Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post
This 100%! Overall Sony scored 2-3% higher than LG. If anything attending the shootout made me feel better about buying the C9.
There are subtle differences between the displays.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
So? What were you expecting going into the shootout, that there will be huge differences? This is the case with all oleds, even if you added a panasonic in the fray, it will have subtle advantages. And that's the point of these shootouts, to see who has the subtle advantages because videophiles care about these advantages.
OLED4UNME likes this.
Menarini is offline  
post #238 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 07:24 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
gene9p's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: New York
Posts: 1,525
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 160 Post(s)
Liked: 113
Sorry to have missed the show thisyear as it was just impossible for me to attend. Thank you Robert for the invite. Hope to see you soon at VE.


Great to have affordable OLED tv's available and how they perform no matter your choice Sony or LG here in the USA. I have been a big fan of Sony tv's for so many years so congrats to them for finishing on top. That being said, I own two LG OLEDs...lol.....a C7 and and E8..both 55 inch models.The main reason being cost. With so little separating one OLED's performance from the other it's best to be consumer smart when making your decision on which tv to own. For me the total cost including tax, free shipping, for both tv's, was just under 2400, about the cost of one 55 inch Sony b4 tax.



Here's hoping Robert can smuggle in a Panasonic for next year.........and congrats on another great show!!
djoberg likes this.
gene9p is offline  
post #239 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 07:27 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
helvetica bold's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: NYC
Posts: 2,462
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1714 Post(s)
Liked: 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Menarini View Post
So? What were you expecting going into the shootout, that there will be huge differences? This is the case with all oleds, even if you added a panasonic in the fray, it will have subtle advantages. And that's the point of these shootouts, to see who has the subtle advantages because videophiles care about these advantages.


Thanks for the explanation of what videophiles care about. I’m not looking for an argument but I feel that you are.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Ken Ross and Markalark like this.

LG65C9, XBOX ONE X, PS4PRO, APPLE 4K, SONY STRDN1070, TAKE CLASSIC 5.1
helvetica bold is offline  
post #240 of 428 Old 06-13-2019, 07:27 AM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
shoman94's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Maine
Posts: 7,207
Mentioned: 203 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5071 Post(s)
Liked: 3581
Photos from the 8k panel discussion.

Sent from my LG-H932 using Tapatalk
rossi46 and chunon like this.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sony LCD Master Series Calibration Thread
My P75-C1 Calibration Settings (5.0.14.1).
Sony XBR-75Z9F, Vizio P75-C1, Pioneer Kuro 5020, Pioneer VSX-1131, XBox One(X), Wii, NVIDIA SHIELD.v1, FireTV 4K-HDR, HDHR Connects, QNAP 431+
shoman94 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Closed Thread OLED Technology and Flat Panels General

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off