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post #1 of 42 Old 06-03-2019, 04:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Apple Pro Display XDR

Looks interesting...

https://www.apple.com/pro-display-xdr/

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post #2 of 42 Old 06-04-2019, 12:05 AM
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I don't believe that contrast ratio even for a second. That's clearly one of the bogus VESA measurements where they measure black at the edge of the screen and a tiny white window in the center.

Looks like a nice IPS monitor that costs a couple thousand dollars more than it should because it says "Apple" on it.
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post #3 of 42 Old 06-04-2019, 12:19 AM
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Might sell my 65C7 so I can get the Pro Stand for $999.
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post #4 of 42 Old 06-04-2019, 02:06 AM
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I think this is geared more towards professional photographers, video editors, and the like, given both the specifications and the fact that it’s meant to be paired with their upcoming Mac Pro which seems to be the only Mac that can actually output 6K.

I think it’s a good sign, however, since the FALD implementation seems to be near miniLED or actual miniLED with 576 dimming zones at 32”. I say it’s a good sign because companies seem to be embracing the technology (a few gaming monitors have similar FALD specs), which means it’ll hopefully trickle to consumer TVs soon.

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post #5 of 42 Old 06-04-2019, 04:27 AM
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Lol - they only got 40% of the way to DV's current grading spec, and already Apple had to be Apple and call it "Far beyond HDR, it’s XDR".


Dolby is weeping in the corner with their Pulsar that's only HDR and so out of fashion now.
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post #6 of 42 Old 06-04-2019, 04:31 AM
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Originally Posted by drewTT View Post
It’s not an OLED, which will disappoint many in the Apple world who were hoping and actually expecting that.
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post #7 of 42 Old 06-04-2019, 11:29 AM
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
It’s not an OLED, which will disappoint many in the Apple world who were hoping and actually expecting that.
This is geared for content creators. $6k is a lot more palatable when you can write it off as a business expense and to impress potential clients. So, if you're looking at static images all day, you don't want OLED because of burn in.
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post #8 of 42 Old 06-04-2019, 11:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
It’s not an OLED, which will disappoint many in the Apple world who were hoping and actually expecting that.
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Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post
This is geared for content creators. $6k is a lot more palatable when you can write it off as a business expense and to impress potential clients. So, if you're looking at static images all day, you don't want OLED because of burn in.
They book-ended the presentation suggesting it to be a value proposition to the $30-40K Sony Pro monitors. A mini-LED lit LCD has been the main rumor for the past year so any Apple fan that was expecting OLED may have been looking at the wrong set of info. I wouldn't call what was shown as mini-LED lit but w/e.
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post #9 of 42 Old 06-04-2019, 12:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ken Ross View Post
It’s not an OLED, which will disappoint many in the Apple world who were hoping and actually expecting that.
Yeah I think the marketing mumbo jumbo said something about 576 LEDs with a special filter. This monitor and new mac pro both look very impressive though. Not for poor people though...

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post #10 of 42 Old 06-04-2019, 02:40 PM
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Each LED is individually calibrated and the full display is calibrated from the factory as well. This is not something we are going to have on our desks for browsing the web. They compared it directly to Sony's $40k reference monitor. So in that category it is a bargain.


$999 for the stand is ridiculous though considering it seems to be the same technology as the original flat screen iMac. Although it is still pretty cool tech.
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post #11 of 42 Old 06-04-2019, 05:45 PM
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I was hoping that it would be a mini-led. Really want to see one in the wild.

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post #12 of 42 Old 06-04-2019, 06:23 PM
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I'm confused why this LCD is in the OLED forum instead of the LCD forum.
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post #13 of 42 Old 06-04-2019, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Actionable Mango View Post
I'm confused why this LCD is in the OLED forum instead of the LCD forum.
It's an Apple product, so we're pretending like it's something better than it is due to the price tag and the logo on the front.
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post #14 of 42 Old 06-04-2019, 07:48 PM
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I'm confused why this LCD is in the OLED forum instead of the LCD forum.
This is the OLED and Flat Panels General forum.

It's a high-end LCD, not a TV. It's interesting to discuss the technology, which can happen here.

There's a saying about "everything in moderation". If only it was applied to well, you know...
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post #15 of 42 Old 06-04-2019, 09:50 PM
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I was hoping that it would be a mini-led. Really want to see one in the wild.
it's actually better than mini led. Its dual stacked Lcd which gives a true 1,000,000:1 native contrast ratio. it does 1000nits full screen and 1600 peak. they set it next to a Sony oled BVM and apparently matched it in blacks and beat it in every other category.


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post #16 of 42 Old 06-04-2019, 10:27 PM
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Isn't this the same technology that Hisense (or TCL?) demoed a few months ago with 2 lcd filters, one color and one black to improve contrast to same marketing numbers as Apple? I seem to remember same number, 1.000.000:1
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post #17 of 42 Old 06-04-2019, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Misuspita View Post
Isn't this the same technology that Hisense (or TCL?) demoed a few months ago with 2 lcd filters, one color and one black to improve contrast to same marketing numbers as Apple? I seem to remember same number, 1.000.000:1

Yes but I think Apples version is better. they've been working on it for many years and Apples version also solves viewing angle issue. Panasonic and Dolby have also experimented with dual stack lcd. Dolby though was around 10 years ago and Panasonic around 3-4 years ago.
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post #18 of 42 Old 06-05-2019, 12:30 AM
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it's actually better than mini led. Its dual stacked Lcd which gives a true 1,000,000:1 native contrast ratio.
The Apple's display is not a dual stacked LCD.

Dual LCD is not all that new a tech, and has been used for very niche, usually one-off, HDR displays, before OLED and even FALD. But dual LCD is incompatible with wide viewing angles. Early ones required spot on viewing from some distance; newer ones (or really just the one) do without.

Apple's native contrast ratio is not stated, but it's likely to be in the range of 1,000:1 to 2,000:1 as has been achieved by other IPS. Since they're relying on FALD for contrast, they've got little reason to go after native contrast, as it's often a tradeoff vs viewing angles.

Since 576 is about as many zones as the best high-end FALD, and considering that monitors are usually viewed much closer up than TVs, the results would be expected at the upper end of that range. Perhaps Apple has done much better in FALD controller design. Also, monitor comparisons conditions still use a lot more ambient light and smaller viewing angles than TVs.

In any case, computer monitors, even professional ones, have been stuck in the low-brightness, low-contrast, barely-SDR world for so long that this is a breakthrough for them. Tiny-screen 8K wasn't, and FALD has been long delayed on PC monitors out of fear of producing an inaccurate image. Perhaps this validation will help it along.
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post #19 of 42 Old 06-05-2019, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
it's actually better than mini led. Its dual stacked Lcd which gives a true 1,000,000:1 native contrast ratio. it does 1000nits full screen and 1600 peak. they set it next to a Sony oled BVM and apparently matched it in blacks and beat it in every other category.


https://www.tomsguide.com/us/apple-p...ews-30243.html

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This article and its title are hilarious. No LCD produces "perfect black" in a dark room, and certainly not a basic FALD like this Apple monitor. And how can the author claim it is more color accurate than the BVM X300, which is a reference display? Does the author have any numbers to back this up, or is he just drinking the Apple kool-aid?
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post #20 of 42 Old 06-05-2019, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by Micolash View Post
This article and its title are hilarious. No LCD produces "perfect black" in a dark room, and certainly not a basic FALD like this Apple monitor. And how can the author claim it is more color accurate than the BVM X300, which is a reference display? Does the author have any numbers to back this up, or is he just drinking the Apple kool-aid?
The perfect black and color accuracy lines sound like marketing quotes from Apple.

However, the author did see the monitor in person side by side with an OLED. So at the very least it looks good to eyeballs under whatever conditions Apple set up.

Several people seem really intent on pre-judging this with either reverential awe or massive scorn, probably because of the logo. We'll know more when professional reviewers can get their hands on one outside of the controlled conditions of the demo.
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post #21 of 42 Old 06-05-2019, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
it's actually better than mini led. Its dual stacked Lcd which gives a true 1,000,000:1 native contrast ratio. it does 1000nits full screen and 1600 peak. they set it next to a Sony oled BVM and apparently matched it in blacks and beat it in every other category.


https://www.tomsguide.com/us/apple-p...ews-30243.html

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Funny link, you’d think the writer never heard of LCD with FALD. He goes on to say the Sony professional OLED looked ‘overly warm’ on a landscape shot compared to the Apple LCD, when it’s well known the Sony professional OLED displays are known for their incredible accuracy. Of course he has no idea how that landscape scene is supposed to look.

I’m sure the LCD is brighter, but I’m equally sure it doesn’t have the precision of an OLED. How could it?
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post #22 of 42 Old 06-05-2019, 01:04 PM
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Funny link, you’d think the writer never heard of LCD with FALD. He goes on to say the Sony professional OLED looked ‘overly warm’ on a landscape shot compared to the Apple LCD, when it’s well known the Sony professional OLED displays are known for their incredible accuracy. Of course he has no idea how that landscape scene is supposed to look.

I’m sure the LCD is brighter, but I’m equally sure it doesn’t have the precision of an OLED. How could it?
You do know that BVM-X300 OLED from Sony has been discontinued in favor of their BVM-HX310 LCD? Sony is canning all of their cavity/top-emission OLEDs going forward in the pro space. IME, their OLEDs were exceptional for ~10000-12000 hours of hard industrial use before their color compensation runs out of room. There seems to be a new wave of cleverer LCD tech coming down the pipe and it's plausible that this Apple monitor could be out front on that wave. It's no guarantee this will be a perfect pro display but what's been shown so far definitely warrants paying close attention to 3rd party optical measurements.
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post #23 of 42 Old 06-05-2019, 01:04 PM
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"2D backlighting system using 576 full array local dimming zones. Apple-designed timing controller (TCON) chip engineered to precisely control high-speed modulation of both 20.4 million LCD pixels and 576 LEDs in backlight for seamless synchronization,"

Reminds me of the ZD9..
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post #24 of 42 Old 06-05-2019, 01:59 PM
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Originally Posted by ray0414 View Post
it's actually better than mini led. Its dual stacked Lcd which gives a true 1,000,000:1 native contrast ratio. it does 1000nits full screen and 1600 peak. they set it next to a Sony oled BVM and apparently matched it in blacks and beat it in every other category.


https://www.tomsguide.com/us/apple-p...ews-30243.html

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It’s definitely not dual layered.

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post #25 of 42 Old 06-05-2019, 02:12 PM
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You do know that BVM-X300 OLED from Sony has been discontinued in favor of their BVM-HX310 LCD? Sony is canning all of their cavity/top-emission OLEDs going forward in the pro space. IME, their OLEDs were exceptional for ~10000-12000 hours of hard industrial use before their color compensation runs out of room. There seems to be a new wave of cleverer LCD tech coming down the pipe and it's plausible that this Apple monitor could be out front on that wave. It's no guarantee this will be a perfect pro display but what's been shown so far definitely warrants paying close attention to 3rd party optical measurements.
The only reason they switched to LCD was to achieve higher brightness numbers. It was certainly not to achieve better blacks or color accuracy.
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post #26 of 42 Old 06-05-2019, 03:36 PM
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You do know that BVM-X300 OLED from Sony has been discontinued in favor of their BVM-HX310 LCD? Sony is canning all of their cavity/top-emission OLEDs going forward in the pro space. IME, their OLEDs were exceptional for ~10000-12000 hours of hard industrial use before their color compensation runs out of room. There seems to be a new wave of cleverer LCD tech coming down the pipe and it's plausible that this Apple monitor could be out front on that wave. It's no guarantee this will be a perfect pro display but what's been shown so far definitely warrants paying close attention to 3rd party optical measurements.
Not sure of the relevance of that nor does it change the factual nature of what I wrote regarding the Sony OLED. As for the 'new wave of LCDs', they are still saddled with the issues that LCD still has. The mere need for FALD is just one example of that.

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post #27 of 42 Old 07-31-2019, 04:57 PM
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This article and its title are hilarious. No LCD produces "perfect black" in a dark room, and certainly not a basic FALD like this Apple monitor. And how can the author claim it is more color accurate than the BVM X300, which is a reference display? Does the author have any numbers to back this up, or is he just drinking the Apple kool-aid?
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The only reason they switched to LCD was to achieve higher brightness numbers. It was certainly not to achieve better blacks or color accuracy.
Look up Panasonic's light modulating cell technology, which was announced a few years back. It's being used in top end reference monitors by FSI (XM311K), Eizo and I believe now Sony, who as was mentioned has canned their OLED in favor of this (burn-in was a factor when looking at a lot of material statically ).

The light control is achieved by a mated LCD layer which acts as a shutter/iris at the pixel level. All these monitors are currently sized at 31" and cost north of $30K. I imagine Panasonic tweaks them a bit for each manufacturer. I think Sony's difference is it uses a backlight of their own design and can get a bit brighter.

Unfortunately they are too expensive to produce to make sense for the home market. Plus, fans are present to cool the always-blasting 1000 nit backlight which some might object to . I think these all draw over 250 watts (!) in HDR mode.













































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post #28 of 42 Old 08-01-2019, 07:37 AM
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Look up Panasonic's light modulating cell technology, which was announced a few years back. It's being used in top end reference monitors by FSI (XM311K), Eizo and I believe now Sony, who as was mentioned has canned their OLED in favor of this (burn-in was a factor when looking at a lot of material statically ).

The light control is achieved by a mated LCD layer which acts as a shutter/iris at the pixel level. All these monitors are currently sized at 31" and cost north of $30K. I imagine Panasonic tweaks them a bit for each manufacturer. I think Sony's difference is it uses a backlight of their own design and can get a bit brighter.

Unfortunately they are too expensive to produce to make sense for the home market. Plus, fans are present to cool the always-blasting 1000 nit backlight which some might object to . I think these all draw over 250 watts (!) in HDR mode.
Sony's specs says the BVM-XH310 uses up to 450W. Quite a lot for a 31" screen.

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post #29 of 42 Old 08-01-2019, 08:58 AM
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I am actually curious if this supports UHD movies from Apple TV app. Apple has been hindered for years with DRM and you could not legally watch any 4k movie content up until recently. I would assume this is supported but you never know with Apple.
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post #30 of 42 Old 08-03-2019, 03:52 AM
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Discussion of some Apple patents that may be in use by this display.

Still not sure if this is dual LCD layer or not. I don't think it is but having local dimming zones does not preclude it. You would still need local dimming to improve power efficiency, uniformity, and provide additional peak contrast boost.
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