LG C9 eARC Info Thread - Page 13 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #361 of 747 Old 06-27-2019, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by KingScooty View Post
Xbox One X + Plex app. I'm aiming for lossless 7.1 Atmos, which you can only do through HDMI pass through, and not any of the internal apps on the C9.
If you can, please test with HD audio content (TrueHD, TrueHD+Atmos, DTS-HD HR, DTS-HD MA or DTS:X), not with lossy DTS5.1/DD5.1/DD+5.1/7.1 or DD+Atmos soundtracks, so we know for sure that LG's C9 eARC works with the Samsung Q90R eARC Soundbar.


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Originally Posted by KingScooty View Post
There's no lag if i set audio output to DTS on Xbox, but either Dolby 5.1, and Dolby Atmos result in audio lag. It's rather confusing. I thought eARC was supposed to prevent audio lag.
Yeah..., the lag that comes with Dolby soundtracks is a known problem and we hope that it will be resolved somehow - it may be a forced transcoding bug inside the C9.
eARC probably has nothing to do with the lag bug and apparently no amount of mandatory LipSync can overcome that lag.
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post #362 of 747 Old 06-27-2019, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingScooty View Post
Xbox One X + Plex app. I'm aiming for lossless 7.1 Atmos, which you can only do through HDMI pass through, and not any of the internal apps on the C9.



There's no lag if i set audio output to DTS on Xbox, but either Dolby 5.1, and Dolby Atmos result in audio lag. It's rather confusing. I thought eARC was supposed to prevent audio lag.


Atmos from my BD player has no lag. It could be Plex implementation. Does Plex fully support Atmos?


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post #363 of 747 Old 06-27-2019, 07:03 AM
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So i was direct streaming an MKV that had TrueHD, via plex on my Xbox One X. I was getting all the channels, but there was lag.
It may be Plex.

I'll try a 4K bluray with the bluray app when i get home and see if the lag goes away.

I have a feeling it's the TV maybe trying to transcode the audio before passing it through?
I'll report back!
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post #364 of 747 Old 06-27-2019, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingScooty View Post
So i was direct streaming an MKV that had TrueHD, via plex on my Xbox One X. I was getting all the channels, but there was lag.
It may be Plex.

I'll try a 4K bluray with the bluray app when i get home and see if the lag goes away.

I have a feeling it's the TV maybe trying to transcode the audio before passing it through?
I'll report back!
Make sure you have C9 set for passthough: Settings > All Settings >Sound > Sound Out > Digital Sound Out

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post #365 of 747 Old 06-27-2019, 07:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingScooty View Post
So i was direct streaming an MKV that had TrueHD, via plex on my Xbox One X. I was getting all the channels, but there was lag.

It may be Plex.



I'll try a 4K bluray with the bluray app when i get home and see if the lag goes away.



I have a feeling it's the TV maybe trying to transcode the audio before passing it through?

I'll report back!


Can you try infuse? It can be pointed at your Plex library and has much better codex support than most hardware devices.


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post #366 of 747 Old 06-27-2019, 07:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingScooty View Post
So i was direct streaming an MKV that had TrueHD, via plex on my Xbox One X. I was getting all the channels, but there was lag.
The Dolby lag appears mostly on core (legacy) tracks such as DD5.1/DD+5.1/7.1 or DD+Atmos and the lag is linked more to the ARC/Optical connections between the TV and the AVR/soundbar than with the eARC connection. It may appear even on HD audio like TrueHD when the source (or the TV) accepts only the core 5.1/7.1 from the full TrueHD soundtrack (because of the above-mentioned ARC/Optical connection between the TV and the AVR/soundbar) - hence the forced transcoding resulting in audio lag.
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post #367 of 747 Old 06-27-2019, 07:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
I just tested the C9 with internal Amazon app to X4509H with Atmos and the sound seemed to be in sync.
The Dolby lag occurs only with HDMI sources and ARC/Optical connections to AVR/soundbar.

If the source sends PCM or DTS soundtracks = no delay.
If the source is connected directly to the AVR/soundbar = no delay.
Audio originating from internal apps (ex. Netflix) = no delay.
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post #368 of 747 Old 06-27-2019, 11:54 AM
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So i've just tried the Incredibles 2 4K Ultra HD Bluray on my Xbox One X via the blu ray app. I'm getting atmos via eARC, but it's still out of sync.

It just seems that all audio coming out of the xbox is delayed. Even the menu navigation sounds on the home screen are delayed. (But if i change the bitstream format from Dolby Atmos to DTS on the Xbox, audio goes back in sync.)

If i turn the soundbar off, and just use Atmos on the C9, the audio is fine!!

So strange. Am i doing something wrong? Or is this a bug with the TV/eARC/Soundbar?

I don't have any other external devices to be able to test at the moment (just moved homes). I'll have to get the PS4 out of its box at the weekend and try that.

Last edited by KingScooty; 06-27-2019 at 12:34 PM.
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post #369 of 747 Old 06-27-2019, 12:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingScooty View Post
So i've just tried the Incredibles 2 4K Ultra HD Bluray on my Xbox One X via the blu ray app. I'm getting atmos via eARC, but it's still out of sync.

It just seems that all audio coming out of the xbox is delayed. Even the menu navigation sounds on the home screen are delayed. (But if i change the bitstream format from Dolby Atmos to DTS on the Xbox, audio goes back in sync.)

If i turn the soundbar off, and just use Atmos on the C9, the audio is fine!!

So strange. Am i doing something wrong? Or is this a bug with the TV/eARC/Soundbar?

I don't have any other external devices to be able to test at the moment (just moved homes). I'll have to get the PS4 out of its box at the weekend and try that.

Plot thickens. If i wire my xbox into the Q90R soundbar, and then the soundbar into the C9, the lag also goes away. Atmos working.

So it's problem with pass through on the C9.
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post #370 of 747 Old 06-27-2019, 12:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingScooty View Post
So i've just tried the Incredibles 2 4K Ultra HD Bluray on my Xbox One X via the blu ray app. I'm getting atmos via eARC, but it's still out of sync.
How do you know if what you hear via soundbar is TrueHD+Atmos and it is via eARC?
The soundbar has a display or app where it reports the specific audio container (TrueHD/DD/DD+/DTS/etc) that is received by the soundbar via ARC/eARC?

The Dolby lag is a problem as old as the 2017 C7 when LG introduced support for Atmos and transcoding via classic ARC.
Xbox is also a known player that introduces audio lag in specific scenarios.
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post #371 of 747 Old 06-27-2019, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingScooty View Post
Plot thickens. If i wire my xbox into the Q90R soundbar, and then the soundbar into the C9, the lag also goes away. Atmos working.

So it's problem with pass through on the C9.
As I have said above:

Quote:
The Dolby lag occurs only with HDMI sources and ARC/Optical connections to AVR/soundbar.

If the source sends PCM or DTS soundtracks = no delay.
If the source is connected directly to the AVR/soundbar = no delay.
Audio originating from internal apps (ex. Netflix) = no delay.
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post #372 of 747 Old 06-27-2019, 11:44 PM
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Originally Posted by peterjcat View Post
Minor correction on the 6/8 channel LPCM issue — this can NOT be mitigated by altering the EDID with an HDFury or similar.

Confirmed by rtings: https://www.rtings.com/tv/discussion...#comment-23775
There is so much confusion in the RTINGS LPCM vs C9 eARC tests...

First, they say

Quote:
1. I did not test 5.1 PCM, but it should work. We tested 5.1 PCM via eARC on the Sony X950G and it worked, so we assume all eARC TVs can do it.
Then

Quote:
I used one of the Integral’s built-in EDIDs; it appeared as supporting 8 channels to Windows.
Then

Quote:
We haven’t tried 5.1 PCM on the C9 yet. What you say peterjcat is interesting, you have no problem with multichannel TrueHD/DTS-HD passthrough, but you can’t passthrough 5.1 PCM. I’m pretty busy with soundbars at the moment, but I’ll test 5.1 PCM on the C9 within the next few weeks.
Then

Quote:
The C9 isn’t capable of 5.1 PCM passthrough over eARC, no matter what is used. Using the HDFury Integral, I tried both the C9 and Sony A9G using the same method: the A9G could passthrough 5.1 PCM over eARC, but the C9 output 2.0 PCM when I sent it 5.1 PCM.
Sooo..., what TV was tested when the result written in RED above came out? The C9 or the Sony???
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post #373 of 747 Old 06-28-2019, 12:18 AM
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Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
Sooo..., what TV was tested when the result written in RED above came out? The C9 or the Sony???
It was the LG. Altering the EDID (via HDFury or software) will make the LG appear as supporting 8 channels in Windows (that is, if you open Windows sound preferences, it will say 8-channel LPCM is supported and give you the pretty picture of 8 speakers). BUT it won't make the LG pass 8 channels to a receiver via eARC. Windows will send 8 channels (or will try to), but all except two channels will be discarded. There is something in the LG over and above the EDID that prevents it from passing 8 channels of LPCM.
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post #374 of 747 Old 06-28-2019, 07:22 AM
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Originally Posted by peterjcat View Post
Windows will send 8 channels (or will try to), but all except two channels will be discarded.
Why is the C9 messing with the audio packets? It should just send them as is down the eARC channel.


What are the settings for eARC on the C9 other than enabling it?
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post #375 of 747 Old 06-28-2019, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KingScooty View Post
Plot thickens. If i wire my xbox into the Q90R soundbar, and then the soundbar into the C9, the lag also goes away. Atmos working.

So it's problem with pass through on the C9.
I definitely don't have any Atmos delay when using my 4K BD player as the source. I watched an entire movie last weekend that was in Atmos and it was in perfect sync.

I thought I remembered someone reporting that some of the Xbox HDMI video settings (VRR? Deep Color?) were causing some kind of audio delay to the C9, so perhaps you could try adjusting those and see if it has any impact.

Certainly if things were working as they should then nothing in the settings between the TV and a source device should cause out of sync audio. eARC specifically has lip sync correction in it for most audio formats to prevent exactly that kind of problem from being introduced in the signal chain.

As an aside, I've configured my PS4 Pro to do DTS-X to the C9 with eARC and so far I haven't noticed any audio sync issues with it when playing games (mostly Spiderman) eARC back to my Denon AVR.
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post #376 of 747 Old 06-28-2019, 10:34 AM
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I read the first page and skimmed through about half of the other pages. At the end of last year I bought a Marantz 6012 (it was cheaper than the Denon 4400H at the time) specifically to be ready for eARC with plans of building Atmos speakers and upgrading my TV this summer. My TV upgrade is being delayed since we're building a new house.

Since I have a 2017 Marantz, am I correct that Xbox -> C9 -> AVR will not support eARC until firmware updates on both the C9 (enable PCM) and Marantz (eARC not working with any TV) come out to fix the respective issues?
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post #377 of 747 Old 06-28-2019, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by bjaurelio View Post
Since I have a 2017 Marantz, am I correct that Xbox -> C9 -> AVR will not support eARC until firmware updates on both the C9 (enable PCM) and Marantz (eARC not working with any TV) come out to fix the respective issues?
Yes, you must use the classic setup: Xbox - AVR - TV until D+M must:
0. do nothing;
1. recognize that their 2017 receivers have an eARC compatibility problem;
2. resolve that problem;

We are still at step zero (0)...


BTW, did you contact D+M support for this? Every owner must put pressure on D+M!
Hurry, 2017 receivers will go without support soon (mostly 2 years of firmware updates)!

Last edited by dfa973; 06-28-2019 at 10:54 AM.
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post #378 of 747 Old 06-28-2019, 12:30 PM
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Yes, you must use the classic setup: Xbox -
BTW, did you contact D+M support for this? Every owner must put pressure on D+M!
Hurry, 2017 receivers will go without support soon (mostly 2 years of firmware updates)!
I will do this now that I have confirmation. I plan to use Xbox -> TV for VRR. Since we're about to move into a temporary apartment until our new home is finished in November, we'll at least have some time before I purchase a TV and have to get my HDR and Atmos upgrades working.
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post #379 of 747 Old 06-28-2019, 02:33 PM
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Here's the response I received. Despite advertising these as supporting eARC via a firmware update last year, I am being told there are no plans to support eARC on the 2017 models. This makes me angry. If you don't plan to support the feature, be honest. Don't lie and say you added the feature.

Response By Email (Jim) (06/28/2019 04:57 PM)
Hello Brian,

Thank you for contacting Sound United Support, we value you as a customer and appreciate the opportunity to be of assistance!

My name is Jim. I am a Tier 2 Technical Support Lead for Denon and Marantz. I understand you are want to know about our plans to add eARC to our FY2017 receivers.

Technically eARC is a feature of HDMI 2.1, which although it was released at the end of 2017, there are very few devices even now that are fully HDMI 2.1 compliant.

But eARC is similar enough to ARC that on a lot of existing hardware updates could be done. I do not work with the engineering team, so I have no idea what models that is or is not an option for. I do know that just about all of our newer models are going to have it as a built in feature, right out of the box.

At this time I do not think that we have any plans to make the FY2017 models eARC compliant. But the engineering department always keeps that kind of information close to the vest. They do not want to upset people by telling them a change is coming if they can not deliver. So quite often the first that we hear about a new update feature is only a few weeks or even more often, only a few days before the feature is released.

I apologize for any frustration this causes.


If you have any further questions please feel free to contact us again.

Thank you for contacting Sound United Customer Support. Have a great day!


Warm Regards,

Jim
Tier II Technical Support Lead
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Sound United North America
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post #380 of 747 Old 06-28-2019, 03:15 PM
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^^^

Why am I not surprised? Makes me even happier that I decided to take the upgrade from X6400H to X6500H even though I have to wait weeks because they're "Out of Stock" right now.

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post #381 of 747 Old 06-28-2019, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
As an aside, I've configured my PS4 Pro to do DTS-X to the C9 with eARC and so far I haven't noticed any audio sync issues with it when playing games (mostly Spiderman) eARC back to my Denon AVR.

How do you get the PS4 Pro to output DTS:X? Do you simply set audio priority to Bitrate (DTS)?
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post #382 of 747 Old 06-28-2019, 06:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JD23 View Post
How do you get the PS4 Pro to output DTS:X? Do you simply set audio priority to Bitrate (DTS)?


That’s exactly what I did.


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post #383 of 747 Old 06-28-2019, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by bjaurelio View Post
At this time I do not think that we have any plans to make the FY2017 models eARC compliant.
I do not understand this response. My 2017, Denon X3400H (and models equal or above that) was updated to support eARC about six months ago. With the exception of passing more than 5.1 sound --a problem with the C9-- it works perfectly. Add Dr HDMI 4K between the AVR and the C9 and full 7.1 (5.1.2) sound passes quite nicely.
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post #384 of 747 Old 06-28-2019, 08:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bjaurelio View Post
Here's the response I received. Despite advertising these as supporting eARC via a firmware update last year, I am being told there are no plans to support eARC on the 2017 models. This makes me angry. If you don't plan to support the feature, be honest. Don't lie and say you added the feature.



Response By Email (Jim) (06/28/2019 04:57 PM)

Hello Brian,



Thank you for contacting Sound United Support, we value you as a customer and appreciate the opportunity to be of assistance!



My name is Jim. I am a Tier 2 Technical Support Lead for Denon and Marantz. I understand you are want to know about our plans to add eARC to our FY2017 receivers.



Technically eARC is a feature of HDMI 2.1, which although it was released at the end of 2017, there are very few devices even now that are fully HDMI 2.1 compliant.



But eARC is similar enough to ARC that on a lot of existing hardware updates could be done. I do not work with the engineering team, so I have no idea what models that is or is not an option for. I do know that just about all of our newer models are going to have it as a built in feature, right out of the box.



At this time I do not think that we have any plans to make the FY2017 models eARC compliant. But the engineering department always keeps that kind of information close to the vest. They do not want to upset people by telling them a change is coming if they can not deliver. So quite often the first that we hear about a new update feature is only a few weeks or even more often, only a few days before the feature is released.



I apologize for any frustration this causes.





If you have any further questions please feel free to contact us again.



Thank you for contacting Sound United Customer Support. Have a great day!





Warm Regards,



Jim

Tier II Technical Support Lead

Denon | Marantz | HEOS

Sound United North America


This guy is an idiot. Denon adding EARC support to 2017 models by way of a firmware update was highly publicized.


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Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
This guy is an idiot. Denon adding EARC support to 2017 models by way of a firmware update was highly publicized.

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I've found recently that Denon (Sound United) support (even tier 2 support) can be highly unreliable to provide accurate information about eARC and other information about their own devices.

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post #386 of 747 Old 06-29-2019, 07:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lujan View Post
I've found recently that Denon (Sound United) support (even tier 2 support) can be highly unreliable to provide accurate information about eARC and other information about their own devices.


I would have just found several of the press release articles when they announced it, sent it to him and ask him why he makes things up and lies to customers.


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post #387 of 747 Old 06-29-2019, 08:06 AM
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I would have just found several of the press release articles when they announced it, sent it to him and ask him why he makes things up and lies to customers.

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Not worth the effort and don't really want to get on their bad side since they're willing to let me upgrade. I've upgraded several times now:

5200 - 6200
6200 - 6400

and now 6400 - 6500

with the total for all these upgrades being $1,700. It would have cost me $2,200 just to get one upgrade by purchasing outside of Denon. This way I can also stay with the current technology. I used to have an uncle (he's passed away now) that liked to purchase a new car every 2 years so he would trade in the 2-year old car. I figure I'm like my uncle except I do it with Denon AVRs.
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post #388 of 747 Old 06-29-2019, 08:41 AM
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Love eARC so much, I am seriously considering no more UHD disks. Yes I lose that super high but rate, but like Vincent showcased on 1 of his vids comparing Dolby Vision stream to disk, the differences were minimal and mostly unnoticeable

Pros for stream + eARC:

*Lip sync finally fixed, dear God thank you
*Lossless streams up to what, like 35mbps?
*Giddyness seeing Dolby Atmos light up the Denon
*Disk quality sound through streaming. Enough said?
*Most streams are Dolby Vision where as the disk has inferior HDR

Cons:
*Lower bitrate which can result in some minor lack of detail in parts of image, but algos are so good, that unless you are doing a side by side like Vincent did, and extremely concentrated viewing, you will not notice

Winner: Streaming + eARC FTW!
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post #389 of 747 Old 06-29-2019, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by TheSynergy View Post
Love eARC so much, I am seriously considering no more UHD disks. Yes I lose that super high but rate, but like Vincent showcased on 1 of his vids comparing Dolby Vision stream to disk, the differences were minimal and mostly unnoticeable

Pros for stream + eARC:

*Lip sync finally fixed, dear God thank you
*Lossless streams up to what, like 35mbps?
*Giddyness seeing Dolby Atmos light up the Denon
*Disk quality sound through streaming. Enough said?
*Most streams are Dolby Vision where as the disk has inferior HDR

Cons:
*Lower bitrate which can result in some minor lack of detail in parts of image, but algos are so good, that unless you are doing a side by side like Vincent did, and extremely concentrated viewing, you will not notice

Winner: Streaming + eARC FTW!
I wasn't aware that there were any streaming providers that offer lossless audio content?
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post #390 of 747 Old 06-29-2019, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lujan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheSynergy View Post
Love eARC so much, I am seriously considering no more UHD disks. Yes I lose that super high but rate, but like Vincent showcased on 1 of his vids comparing Dolby Vision stream to disk, the differences were minimal and mostly unnoticeable

Pros for stream + eARC:

*Lip sync finally fixed, dear God thank you
*Lossless streams up to what, like 35mbps?
*Giddyness seeing Dolby Atmos light up the Denon [IMG class=inlineimg]/forum/images/smilies/smile.gif[/IMG]
*Disk quality sound through streaming. Enough said?
*Most streams are Dolby Vision where as the disk has inferior HDR

Cons:
*Lower bitrate which can result in some minor lack of detail in parts of image, but algos are so good, that unless you are doing a side by side like Vincent did, and extremely concentrated viewing, you will not notice

Winner: Streaming + eARC FTW!
I wasn't aware that there were any streaming providers that offer lossless audio content?
Vudu is our go to.
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