LG C9 eARC Info Thread - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Exclamation LG C9 eARC Info Thread

A lot of information about eARC is sprinkled throughout the LG C9 owner's thread and many owners or potential owners either don't care about the status of this feature or will have difficulty following the conversation and understanding what the current status is.

What is eARC and why do I care about it?

eARC stands for enhanced Audio Return Channel and is a new feature that was introduced as part of the HDMI 2.1 specification. Importantly, eARC does not require HDMI 2.1 hardware for implementation, only ethernet channel that is present in HDMI 2.0b hardware and certified cables.

"Traditional" ARC allows for the pass-through of ~1mbps audio channel from a TV to a connected sound device such as a home theater receiver (AVR) or soundbar. This can be used for delivery of audio data from the television's internal apps as well as the audio from HDMI sources that are connected directly to the display.

Due to the bandwidth limit only low bit-rate compressed audio can be passed over the ARC channel. This means that HD audio tracks from high quality sources such as game consoles and media/disc players can only be passed back to the sound device as 'core' audio (Dolby+, Atmos encoded into DD+, etc.).

ARC, as designed, requires that the Television and all connected devices are HDMI CEC integrated, so that the TV and sound devices can negotiate codecs, volume levels and source switching. This has caused many integration issues with ARC due to well known problems of poor HDMI control implementation between different vendors.

eARC is not supposed to require the use of an HDMI CEC handshake to operate. Instead, eARC utilizes only the Ethernet HDMI channel over which codec negotiation and media delivery are supposed to happen.

eARC also allows for audio data rates of up to 37mbps which allows for transport of full uncompressed HD audio soundtracks in up to 7.1 channels as well as HD tracks in Dolby Atmos.

So, why do I care again?

Traditionally video devices were connected to displays and audio devices were connected to pre-amps and amplifiers. This insured that the signal path was as short as possible between video sources and displays as well as audio sources and pre-amplifiers. The advent of digital signal delivery of audio and video and HDCP copy protection meant that consumers increasingly needed to connect their sources to an Audio Video Receiver (AVR) in order to switch the audio and video out to their display device.

This causes a few problems;
  • AVRs are traditionally good at audio, not video. Video might be converted to a different resolution, frame-rate, color depth, etc., and sometimes it is not clear to the operator that this is being done.
  • Audio/video processing inside of the AVR can result in significant audio/video sync problems to occur (lip sync) and in many cases it is not possible to correct these at each source. You might have sync correct from your cable box but not your BD player, for example.
  • The use of a single input on the television means that the calibration settings or picture mode will not be correct for different sources. Your cable box might look better with a different picture preset than your BD player, and it's not always convenient (or even possible) to switch picture modes for different AVR input sources, some TVs have limited number of picture modes or calibration limitations with some modes, and so on.
  • There are no HDMI 2.1 AVRs on the market. So any advanced video features such as VRR (variable refresh rate) or video frame-rates, resolutions and color depths that exceed specs of HDMI 2.0b (18Gbps) will not pass through any current AVR that is switching audio/video sources.

eARC was specifically introduced to eliminate these limitations and produce the following benefits;
  • Audio return channel does not depend on HDMI CEC removing integration limitations for audio return to work effectively.
  • eARC means that as sources and audio formats are updated, it is not immediately necessary to update the AVR as long as the AVR is eARC capable. As long as a sound format can be converted to PCM at the source device for example it could be transmitted to an AVR over eARC even if the AVR otherwise doesn't support that sound format (*note that currently C9 does not support 5.1 and 7.1 PCM audio).
  • eARC allows for the future use of higher quality audio streams in the apps built into displays.
  • eARC REQUIRES lip sync correction for most sound formats as part of the specification so that audio and video will always be in proper sync.
  • With the TV as the video switch for higher quality video sources all advanced video features should work properly, individual inputs can be configured for optimal picture quality, etc.

Another great summary of eARC and why you care about it is found in this article from Digital Trends;

https://www.digitaltrends.com/home-t...ed-works-care/

eARC sounds great, what's the status of eARC with LG televisions in 2019?

LG C9 series are currently the only televisions in LG product lineup that support the eARC format as part of C9s larger HDMI 2.1 feature support.

It is assumed that other products in the 2019 LG lineup will also have support for this feature such as higher level OLED displays (E9, etc.) this will be updated as other products are confirmed to have support.

However, early adopters of C9 have discovered the following issues with LGs implementation of the eARC feature;

  • The LG implementation ignores the media handles for PCM 5.1 and PCM 7.1 audio, which means it is not possible to pass uncompressed HD audio from devices like game titles on consoles like Xbox/PS4 that send HD audio uncompressed. There is no technical reason this shouldn't work (and does work on competitor televisions from Sony) this is just an omission on LGs part in supporting the formats. This issue was first reported in rtings.com review of LG C9.
  • Owners of 2017 Denon products have reported that their AVRs are not recognized by LG C9 as being eARC capable devices. It is reported that 2017 Denons also have this issue with other brand televisions so possibly this issue can only be fixed by Denon or that Denon and display makers will have to collaborate on a fix.
  • It has been confirmed that LG C9 operates properly with eARC delivery when HDMI CEC is turned off on the source (TV) and destination (AVR). This is accomplished by removing HDMI configuration for target AVR in the LG C9 Connections Manager (reset configuration) and disabling ARC and TV control in the Denon/Marantz unit.... then enabling ARC and eARC w/passthrough in the C9 HDMI audio settings. It is unknown if this is functional across all AVR brands but strongly indicates that LG has properly implemented the feature so that it can be turned on independent of use of HDMI control (HDMI CEC).

Is LG doing anything about these issues?

LG Community Forum has requests to address the two primary eARC issues identified;

eARC not available on some Denon AVRs;

https://lgcommunity.us.com/discussio...d-denon-x4400h


Quote:
JamalofLG LG Moderator
Posted on 2019-06-11 15:30:26 Flag
I will not have a timeline as to when a resolution will be issued, however, something is in the works to provide a resolution.
LG PCM multi-channel support over eARC;

https://lgcommunity.us.com/discussio...c-pass-through

eARC test files;

The following files can be loaded onto a USB drive, plugged into the LG C9 and played back to an AVR to determine if eARC is operational or not as the LG television (and many AVRs) give no indication that the feature is in use (important, the LG player and/or USB ports don't support HD audio so only non HD audio formats like DD 5.1, core DTS, etc., would be able to be tested this way).

Samples for testing the ARC/eARC link:
- lots of HD audio samples are available to download in the Kodi wiki - bitstreaming or uncompressed LPCM files are included;
https://kodi.wiki/view/Samples[/QUOTE]

Last edited by jmpage2; 07-17-2019 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:24 AM - Thread Starter
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Updated compatibility information 06/24/19 accredited to user @dfa973

Updated list for known AVRs vs LG C9 eARC

AVRs known to work with LG C9 eARC
2018 generation
- Denon AVR-X3500H
- Denon AVR-X4500H (*2)
- Denon AVR-X6500H
- Pioneer VSX-LX503 (*1)
- Yamaha RX-V685 (*1)
2019 generation
- Denon AVR-S750H (*3)
- Denon AVR-X1600H (*4)

AVRs known to not work with LG C9 eARC
2017 generation
- Denon AVR-X3400H
- Denon AVR-X4400H (*5)
- Denon AVR-X6400H (*6);
- Marantz SR7012 (*7)

Notes:
(general) - all the 2018 or 2019 Denon/Marantz eARC models are expected to work just fine;
(general) - all the 2017 Denon/Marantz eARC models are expected to NOT work, this is NOT the LG's fault, but Denon/Marantz fault (Denon/Marantz support should be contacted ASAP to let them know and resolve this problem);
*1) requires HDMI Control/CEC=ON on the receiver for eARC to work;
*2) if you do not need SimpLink/HDMI Control (you use an universal remote) eARC works (ignoring the TV Audio setup) with CEC=OFF and ARC=OFF on Denon and eARC=ON on C9 (also works about the same with the 2018 Sony A9F/AF9 OLED eARC TV, with CEC=OFF on both and ARC=OFF on Denon), this setup should work with all the 2018/2019 Denon/Marantz eARC models;
*3) requires SimpLink=ON on the C9 and HDMI Control=ON on the S750H for eARC to work (but with the TV Audio setup?);
*4) also works with 2019 Sony X950G eARC TV;
*5) on TV Audio is capable of only Stereo with the 2018 Sony A9F/AF9 OLED eARC TVs internal apps, HD audio does pass-through!);
*6) on TV Audio is capable of only Stereo with the C9
*7) also no HD audio with the 2018 Sony A9F/AF9 OLED eARC TVs internal apps/Plex

Last edited by jmpage2; 06-24-2019 at 06:27 AM.
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Old 06-12-2019, 07:29 AM
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Technical information about where and how the discovery and data are sent:

Type: Regular HDMI
Discovery: DDC - Video and Audio EDID
- Pins: SCL (15), SDA (16)
- Direction: AVR -> Device, TV -> Device or TV -> AVR
Data: TMDS
- Pins: TMDS Data0 (7, 9), TMDS Data1 (4, 6), TMDS Data2 (1, 3), TMDS Clock/Data3 (10, 12)
- Direction: Device -> AVR, Device -> TV or AVR -> TV
- Bandwidth: Encoded in the horizontal and vertical blanking intervals of the video signal.

Type: ARC
Discovery: CEC - Short Audio Descriptor
- Pins: CEC (13)
- Direction: TV -> AVR
Data: ARC
- Pins: Utility/HEAC+ (14)
- Direction: AVR -> TV
- Bandwidth: ~1Mbps

Type: eARC
Discovery: eARC - Audio EDID
- Pins: Utility/HEAC+ (14), HEAC- (19)
- Direction: TV -> AVR
Data: eARC
- Pins: Utility/HEAC+ (14), HEAC- (19)
- Direction: AVR -> TV
- Bandwidth: 37Mbps
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Old 06-12-2019, 10:08 AM
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The C9 recognizes my Denon S750H for eARC.

Presumably these issues also apply to the other LG 9 series tvs (B9, E9, R9, W9, Z9). You might want to make a note of that, though as of yet unconfirmed.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:39 PM
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Sorry, but there are some things that are just not right:

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
eARC is not supposed to require the use of an HDMI CEC handshake to operate. Instead, eARC utilizes only the Ethernet HDMI channel over which codec negotiation and media delivery are supposed to happen.
eARC does depend a little bit on the CEC bus, it's still an ARC, even if an enhanced one, and the TV still needs to send data about the volume, mute, power ON/OFF to the AVR/soundbar.
And I am pretty sure that the first enumeration of the devices connected to the master address 0 (the TV, as the sink/root) is still made through the CEC bus (because it is the legacy bus) and then if an eARC device is detected the discovery continues through eARC data channel.
eARC discovery can be enough only if the TV is attached to a single device - the eARC compatible AVR/soundbar. Anything else requires that the CEC bus is functional.

You can disable the CEC bus, but that it may come with a lack of control over the eARC/ARC state, in addition to the loss of commands pass-through (volume, mute, power ON/OFF) to the AVR/soundbar or source (transport commands, for example).

We can expect that some devices do not play nicely when the CEC bus is OFF - the LG C9 or the AVRs/soundbars/whatever or both...

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
There are no HDMI 2.1 AVRs on the market. So any advanced video features such as VRR (variable refresh rate) or ALLM (automatic low latency mode) will not pass through an AVR that is switching audio/video sources.
This is not correct!
At least for Denon and Marantz, all 2017, 2018 and 2019 AVRs do allow ALLM pass-through, even the models that do not support eARC --- all of them are still HDMI 2.0b devices.

"OFFICIAL" 2019 LG C9 Consolidated Info, FAQ, Troubleshooting, Firmware & more
LG 3D TV --- Denon AVR --- Wharfedale speakers --- Emotiva subs --- Media players: Intel NUC 8th & 7th gen i3's with Pulse-Eight internal HDMI-CEC adapters, Kodi on Win10, one remote to rule them all - the TV remote!
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
Sorry, but there are some things that are just not right:



eARC does depend a little bit on the CEC bus, it's still an ARC, even if an enhanced one, and the TV still needs to send data about the volume, mute, power ON/OFF to the AVR/soundbar.
And I am pretty sure that the first enumeration of the devices connected to the master address 0 (the TV, as the sink/root) is still made through the CEC bus (because it is the legacy bus) and then if an eARC device is detected the discovery continues through eARC data channel.
eARC discovery can be enough only if the TV is attached to a single device - the eARC compatible AVR/soundbar. Anything else requires that the CEC bus is functional.

You can disable the CEC bus, but that it may come with a lack of control over the eARC/ARC state, in addition to the loss of commands pass-through (volume, mute, power ON/OFF) to the AVR/soundbar or source (transport commands, for example).

We can expect that some devices do not play nicely when the CEC bus is OFF - the LG C9 or the AVRs/soundbars/whatever or both...



This is not correct!
At least for Denon and Marantz, all 2017, 2018 and 2019 AVRs do allow ALLM pass-through, even the models that do not support eARC --- all of them are still HDMI 2.0b devices.
I will update around ALLM feature as I was under the impression it would not pass-through.

Please provide source information for your assertions around CEC integration being mandatory as I've not read this anywhere and am not ready to start making edits based on your assertions.

I have read multiple casual articles around eARC that indicate that CEC is not needed and you are the only source I have that it is believed to be required. Denon has also told me that CEC is absolutely not needed for eARC to work and that it can work independently of any HDMI control.
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Old 06-12-2019, 02:44 PM - Thread Starter
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If anyone can provide a link to demo files that can be used with USB media (or streamed from NAS, etc.) to validate operation of eARC I would like to include this information in the top post.
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Old 06-12-2019, 03:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
I will update around ALLM feature as I was under the impression it would not pass-through.

Please provide source information for your assertions around CEC integration being mandatory as I've not read this anywhere and am not ready to start making edits based on your assertions.
I never said it was mandatory!
I said that CEC has his role for control of AVR/soundbar (and other connected devices) and as the legacy discovery path.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
I have read multiple casual articles around eARC that indicate that CEC is not needed and you are the only source I have that it is believed to be required. Denon has also told me that CEC is absolutely not needed for eARC to work and that it can work independently of any HDMI control.
CEC is not needed/required but is an optional feature for eARC. CEC can be a necessary thing when you have other devices that you need to control in addition to the eARC compatible AVR/soundbar.


Examples:

Quote:
If the TV and AVR support the CEC feature, using the TV remote will automatically send Power On/Off, Volume Up/Down, and Mute commands to the audio device. With eARC, however, the use of CEC is optional.

Quote:
One frequent question: If eARC’s design overcomes some problems of CEC, then why does eARC rely on CEC for automating user remote control commands? This is because the eARC data channel supports only “invisible” operations, such as discovering and setting up the eARC link, determining formats, and lip sync. However, the eARC data channel was deliberately designed to not send user commands such as volume up/down and mute. This decision was made because there are already many different ways to send user commands, including CEC, which is built into all versions of HDMI, or a programmed universal remote, or with a smartphone app. eARC deliberately left remote control functions out of the eARC data channel in order to prevent potential usability problems. In addition, the CEC pin has special attributes which make it perfectly suited for sending a “Power On” message across HDMI, so in systems where CEC is effective, this method can still be used. The important thing is that eARC audio can operate flawlessly without CEC, and the user can choose whether to use CEC for device control.
See the attached.
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File Type: pdf Lattice_eARC_WP_FINAL.pdf (285.4 KB, 18 views)

"OFFICIAL" 2019 LG C9 Consolidated Info, FAQ, Troubleshooting, Firmware & more
LG 3D TV --- Denon AVR --- Wharfedale speakers --- Emotiva subs --- Media players: Intel NUC 8th & 7th gen i3's with Pulse-Eight internal HDMI-CEC adapters, Kodi on Win10, one remote to rule them all - the TV remote!
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Old 06-12-2019, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmpage2 View Post
If anyone can provide a link to demo files that can be used with USB media (or streamed from NAS, etc.) to validate operation of eARC I would like to include this information in the top post.
Lots of HD audio samples in the Kodi wiki, bitstreamed or uncompressed LPCM included.

https://kodi.wiki/view/Samples

"OFFICIAL" 2019 LG C9 Consolidated Info, FAQ, Troubleshooting, Firmware & more
LG 3D TV --- Denon AVR --- Wharfedale speakers --- Emotiva subs --- Media players: Intel NUC 8th & 7th gen i3's with Pulse-Eight internal HDMI-CEC adapters, Kodi on Win10, one remote to rule them all - the TV remote!
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Old 06-12-2019, 03:32 PM
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You can add Marantz SR7012 AVR to the non-working with C9 eARC list.

We can see a pattern here, with the exception of a single Denon AVR-X3400H receiver (for now), the 2017 models from Denon and Marantz do not seem to care for C9 eARC compatibility.

The 2018 and 2019 models have much-improved compatibility with C9 eARC.


AVRs known to work with C9 eARC
Pioneer VSX-LX503 - 2018
Denon 3400H - 2017
Denon X6500H - 2018
Denon X3500H - 2018
Denon S750H - 2019

AVRs not working with C9 eARC
Denon X4400H - 2017
Marantz SR7012 - 2017

"OFFICIAL" 2019 LG C9 Consolidated Info, FAQ, Troubleshooting, Firmware & more
LG 3D TV --- Denon AVR --- Wharfedale speakers --- Emotiva subs --- Media players: Intel NUC 8th & 7th gen i3's with Pulse-Eight internal HDMI-CEC adapters, Kodi on Win10, one remote to rule them all - the TV remote!
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Old 06-12-2019, 04:49 PM
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For the list -- Yamaha RXV685 with recent eARC firmware update works fine except for the multichannel LPCM limitation.
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Old 06-12-2019, 05:04 PM
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Would these files work for testing eARC?

https://www.demo-world.eu/2d-demo-trailers-hd/
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Old 06-12-2019, 11:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avernar View Post
Technical information about where and how the discovery and data are sent:
Type: ARC
Discovery: CDC
- Pins: CEC (13)
- Direction: TV -> AVR
Data: ARC
- Pins: Utility/HEAC+ (14)
- Direction: AVR -> TV
- Bandwidth: ~1Mbps
CDC (Capability Discovery and Control) is not used for ACR discovery, but is the discovery mechanism for HEC (HDMI Ethernet Channel). CDC was designed to be used for ARC and HEC (HEAC features) but has become optional and then abandoned mechanism for discovery, relegated to HEC, and then HEC was also abandoned in the favor of eARC data channel...

ARC uses the CEC bus for discovery, not the CDC. That's why there are still devices that end up with an unfunctional ARC if CEC functions are disabled because the manufacturer has forgotten to split the "hidden" CEC discovery mechanism from the "visible" CEC control commands.

Proof:
Quote:
Although the older HDMI-ARC standard has a discovery mechanism which provides the same kinds of messaging as eARC, most of this messaging is optional, and the discovery/messaging scheme is based on HDMI-CEC.
................
However, to use an eARC-compatible device in (HDMI 1.4) ARC mode, such as when using an HDMI-eARC AVR with an HDMI-ARC TV, CEC must be enabled, because CEC is part of the ARC discovery process.
From: HDMI Enhanced Audio Return Channel (eARC) Future Proofs Home Theater Connectivity with Uncompromised Audio Quality - A Lattice Semiconductor White Paper - attached in a previous post by me.

"OFFICIAL" 2019 LG C9 Consolidated Info, FAQ, Troubleshooting, Firmware & more
LG 3D TV --- Denon AVR --- Wharfedale speakers --- Emotiva subs --- Media players: Intel NUC 8th & 7th gen i3's with Pulse-Eight internal HDMI-CEC adapters, Kodi on Win10, one remote to rule them all - the TV remote!
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Old 06-13-2019, 07:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
eARC does depend a little bit on the CEC bus, it's still an ARC, even if an enhanced one, and the TV still needs to send data about the volume, mute, power ON/OFF to the AVR/soundbar.
Transmitting audio and and remote controlling another device are two separate functions. The fact that they're often used together does not mean eARC depends on CEC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
And I am pretty sure that the first enumeration of the devices connected to the master address 0 (the TV, as the sink/root) is still made through the CEC bus (because it is the legacy bus) and then if an eARC device is detected the discovery continues through eARC data channel.
eARC discovery can be enough only if the TV is attached to a single device - the eARC compatible AVR/soundbar. Anything else requires that the CEC bus is functional.
No. eARC does not require CEC for discovery. Even the whitepaper you posted says that: "eARC bypasses not only the CEC connection, but the rest of the HDMI connection." and the table has "eARC data channel" listed for both Link Discovery and Capability Discovery.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
You can disable the CEC bus, but that it may come with a lack of control over the eARC/ARC state, in addition to the loss of commands pass-through (volume, mute, power ON/OFF) to the AVR/soundbar or source (transport commands, for example).
You say this as if it were a bad thing. With all the incompatibilities and unwanted behaviour I've run into with CEC control I have long ago given up on it. Multiple remotes or a universal remote is my preferred way to control multiple devices. I am perfectly happy disabling CEC Control and with eARC now available I'm happy disabling CEC + ARC entirely (unless a device won't let me).

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
We can expect that some devices do not play nicely when the CEC bus is OFF - the LG C9 or the AVRs/soundbars/whatever or both...
If a device needs CEC in any way for eARC it has a design defect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
CDC (Capability Discovery and Control) is not used for ACR discovery, but is the discovery mechanism for HEC (HDMI Ethernet Channel). CDC was designed to be used for ARC and HEC (HEAC features) but has become optional and then abandoned mechanism for discovery, relegated to HEC, and then HEC was also abandoned in the favor of eARC data channel...
Oops. Reread the CEC section in HDMI 1.4b standard. There was a page break that made it look like the CDC opcode was part of the Audio Return Channel Control Feature table. Corrected.

The CEC protocol is complicated and ugly BTW.
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Old 06-13-2019, 07:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avernar View Post
No. eARC does not require CEC for discovery.
I have never said that. Please read again. This is the second time that the "requirement" is attributed to me...

As long as the CEC is ON, the enumeration of some of the HDMI devices is still being made by CEC - for example: all the devices connected to the TV are CEC discovered, the devices connected to an eARC AVR are eARC discovered and if eARC fails the devices connected to an eARC AVR are CEC discovered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by avernar View Post
Even the whitepaper you posted says that: "eARC bypasses not only the CEC connection, but the rest of the HDMI connection." and the table has "eARC data channel" listed for both Link Discovery and Capability Discovery.
And you think that I did not know what I was posting?

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Old 06-13-2019, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
I have never said that. Please read again. This is the second time that the "requirement" is attributed to me...
"And I am pretty sure that the first enumeration of the devices connected to the master address 0 (the TV, as the sink/root) is still made through the CEC bus (because it is the legacy bus) and then if an eARC device is detected the discovery continues through eARC data channel."

Sorry. They way you worded that sentence it looks like the "if an eARC device is detected" part belongs to the first part of the sentence talking about CEC discovery of the device. And the "discovery continues through eARC data channel" makes it sound like it then switches from CEC to eARC for the rest of the discovery.

The sentence is slightly ambiguous and I just read it the wrong way. There is no conspiracy attributing that requirement to you.
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Old 06-13-2019, 08:44 AM
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Whether eARC eventually works reliably across platforms is still a ways off, regardless of any CEC involvement. At this point in time, distances over 15m (about 50') is the achilles heel of eARC for reliability.


As to the CEC question, CEC Extensions were supposed to be part of the HDMI 2.1 hardware set but I haven't seen any mention of that for quite some time now. The idea was to standardize CEC so that the same protocols/options were enabled across the various mfrs to eliminate any incompatibilities for CEC, and any issues that affected ARC. Whether CEC Extensions involved eARC in some form or another was not clear.

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Old 06-13-2019, 08:54 AM
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Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
You can add Marantz SR7012 AVR to the non-working with C9 eARC list.

We can see a pattern here, with the exception of a single Denon AVR-X3400H receiver (for now), the 2017 models from Denon and Marantz do not seem to care for C9 eARC compatibility.

The 2018 and 2019 models have much-improved compatibility with C9 eARC.


AVRs known to work with C9 eARC
Pioneer VSX-LX503 - 2018
Denon 3400H - 2017
Denon X6500H - 2018
Denon X3500H - 2018
Denon S750H - 2019

AVRs not working with C9 eARC
Denon X4400H - 2017
Marantz SR7012 - 2017
You can add the X6400H - 2017 which is the model I have. Even with the Dr HDMI 4K device between the C9 and the Denon, there are still HDMI handshake issues. For instance, this morning when I turned these ON, the Denon was only indicating DD 5.1 for all sources which is better than the "Stereo" I was getting for everything without the Dr HDMI 4K. I had to turn the Denon OFF and then back ON in order for it to recognize DD+ 5.1 and Atmos.

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Old 06-13-2019, 10:01 AM
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I have a LG 65C9 and Pioneer VSX-LX503 receiver. My audio is a 5.1 system. I cannot get anything to work correctly. I have a PC connected directly to the TV using a GTX 1050 Ti nVidia card. It's connected to HDMI 1 on the TV. HDMI 2 on the TV is connected to the HDMI main out port on the Pioneer receiver.

No audio is being sent to my rear speakers, DTS, DTS-HD it does not matter what the format of the audio it's not going to the rears with the ARC connection. If I connect the PC to the receiver HDMI-1, the receiver detects my GTX 1050 Ti, as 1080, I cannot get 4k pass-through to work with the 1050 card. Intel graphics and an old AMD R7 200 series card is passed as 4k through the receiver. But going through the receiver my rear speakers work.

I also have an AT&T uVerse STB. If I connect the STB to HDMI port 2 on the receiver it passes the video but no audio to the system. Now this where it gets weird, unplug the HDMI out on the receiver going to the LG and obviously I lose the video but the audio starts working!

Help!
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Old 06-13-2019, 10:09 AM
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Originally Posted by avernar View Post
If a device needs CEC in any way for eARC it has a design defect.
Irritatingly, the Pioneer VSX-LX503 has this design defect. In order to have the option to engage eARC, you must first turn on CEC. So LG, isn't the only one with this design defect. So happy to have two devices that must talk to each other with this "feature."

Question: When I play discs and files on my Sony UBP-X800m2 connected to the Pioneer, I sometimes get "No Signal" on my 65C9. I can tell the C9 and the Pioneer are having handshake issues as the speaker indicator lights on the Pioneer flash on and off. The menu screens on both the UBP-X800m2 and the VSX-LX503 both always bring the C9 out of the "No Signal" screen. It's only when I play video content that the problem emerges (but not always). I have discovered that after starting a video file/disc, powering off the LG manually by the power button on the set and then turning it back on allows the handshake to complete and picture to return.

Is this a CEC/EDID problem that something like Dr. HDMI can fix?

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Old 06-13-2019, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harync View Post
Irritatingly, the Pioneer VSX-LX503 has this design defect. In order to have the option to engage eARC, you must first turn on CEC. So LG, isn't the only one with this design defect. So happy to have two devices that must talk to each other with this "feature."

Question: When I play discs and files on my Sony UBP-X800m2 connected to the Pioneer, I sometimes get "No Signal" on my 65C9. I can tell the C9 and the Pioneer are having handshake issues as the speaker indicator lights on the Pioneer flash on and off. The menu screens on both the UBP-X800m2 and the VSX-LX503 both always bring the C9 out of the "No Signal" screen. It's only when I play video content that the problem emerges (but not always). I have discovered that after starting a video file/disc, powering off the LG manually by the power button on the set and then turning it back on allows the handshake to complete and picture to return.

Is this a CEC/EDID problem that something like Dr. HDMI can fix?
I don't know all the intricacies of how it works but before getting the Dr. HDMI I was only getting "Stereo" from all sources using the Smart TV apps as well as from USB sources if eARC was turned ON on the C9. After getting the Dr. HDMI 4K device, I'm able to turn eARC ON and get DD+ and Atmos from these same sources. It doesn't really tell me that eARC is working correctly but at least I can get what is expected from the C9 together with my Denon.

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Old 06-13-2019, 12:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
At this point in time, distances over 15m (about 50') is the achilles heel of eARC for reliability.
Is that 15m per cable or total distance (i.e. AVR>TV>Console)?

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Old 06-13-2019, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Baff View Post
Is that 15m per cable or total distance (i.e. AVR>TV>Console)?
That has not been specifically addressed but my feeling is that it would be total cable run. If you have 50' from source to your avr, then another 50' from your avr to the sink, you may have issues. There's a lot of unknowns about eARC at present because consumer devices are just beginning to come to market and you don't know how the mfr is implementing eARC (updated HDMI 2.0 chipsets, limited option HDMI 2.1 chipsets, or fully compatible HDMI 2.1 chipsets). All you can do is try.

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Old 06-13-2019, 12:50 PM
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Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
That has not been specifically addressed but my feeling is that it would be total cable run. If you have 50' from source to your avr, then another 50' from your avr to the sink, you may have issues. There's a lot of unknowns about eARC at present because consumer devices are just beginning to come to market and you don't know how the mfr is implementing eARC (updated HDMI 2.0 chipsets, limited option HDMI 2.1 chipsets, or fully compatible HDMI 2.1 chipsets). All you can do is try.
HDMI signals are regenerated by each device it passes through, so the cable length for each segment is the limit. HDCP limits you to a depth of 4 (so player to AVR to TV would have a depth of 2, player to AVR to repeater to TV would have depth 3).

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Old 06-13-2019, 01:00 PM
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Originally Posted by lsorensen View Post
HDMI signals are regenerated by each device it passes through, so the cable length for each segment is the limit. HDCP limits you to a depth of 4 (so player to AVR to TV would have a depth of 2, player to AVR to repeater to TV would have depth 3).

You are probably correct but until HDMI 2.1 devices are common enough we won't really know if one 50' cable from source to avr, and then another 50' cable from avr to sink (panel) will work reliably for eARC. In theory, it should work, but there are still too many unknowns to say for sure.

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Old 06-13-2019, 01:04 PM
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So, the list of receivers that DO work with C9 eARC, the C9 still doesn't pass Uncompressed 5.1/7.1 LPCM to them for now right? They can only be used for Bitstream formats, Atmos, and max LCPM 2.0? Which means that the receivers that don't work have even more issues?



By the way, thank you for making this separate thread!
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Old 06-13-2019, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Otto Pylot View Post
You are probably correct but until HDMI 2.1 devices are common enough we won't really know if one 50' cable from source to avr, and then another 50' cable from avr to sink (panel) will work reliably for eARC. In theory, it should work, but there are still too many unknowns to say for sure.
The eARC connection is only between the TV and the AVR. No other device (cable box, game console, media device, etc) uses eARC.
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Old 06-13-2019, 02:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avernar View Post
The eARC connection is only between the TV and the AVR. No other device (cable box, game console, media device, etc) uses eARC.
Then the single cable run up to 50' should be fine for eARC, in theory.

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Old 06-13-2019, 03:24 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Gary Quiring View Post
I have a LG 65C9 and Pioneer VSX-LX503 receiver. My audio is a 5.1 system. I cannot get anything to work correctly. I have a PC connected directly to the TV using a GTX 1050 Ti nVidia card. It's connected to HDMI 1 on the TV. HDMI 2 on the TV is connected to the HDMI main out port on the Pioneer receiver.

No audio is being sent to my rear speakers, DTS, DTS-HD it does not matter what the format of the audio it's not going to the rears with the ARC connection. If I connect the PC to the receiver HDMI-1, the receiver detects my GTX 1050 Ti, as 1080, I cannot get 4k pass-through to work with the 1050 card. Intel graphics and an old AMD R7 200 series card is passed as 4k through the receiver. But going through the receiver my rear speakers work.

I also have an AT&T uVerse STB. If I connect the STB to HDMI port 2 on the receiver it passes the video but no audio to the system. Now this where it gets weird, unplug the HDMI out on the receiver going to the LG and obviously I lose the video but the audio starts working!

Help!
This has nothing to do with EARC. Maybe start a new thread.
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