2019 Year of the Miss - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 27 Old 07-13-2019, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
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2019 Year of the Miss

I have been closely following the 2019 OLED releases and see little difference to 2018 models. It is disappointing that manufacturers have only released slightly reworked 2018 models. I guess on the positive side MSRPs have dropped slightly which is only fair as the newer sets have not really progressed. Because there is only one manufacturer of OLED panels, there is no incentive to improve. Hopefully when other technologies emerge that threaten OLED, we will see significant improvements.
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post #2 of 27 Old 07-13-2019, 04:23 PM
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I don't see any sort of noteworthy improvements in LED-LCD space as well and as usual they are getting smashed by low nit OLEDs in reviews and shootouts.

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post #3 of 27 Old 07-13-2019, 04:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by lganz316 View Post
I don't see any sort of noteworthy improvements in LED-LCD space as well and as usual they are getting smashed by low nit OLEDs in reviews and shootouts.

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I agree. I think 2019 has been a miss for TVs in general. Not sure if 2020 will be any better.
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post #4 of 27 Old 07-13-2019, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuck View Post
I have been closely following the 2019 OLED releases and see little difference to 2018 models. It is disappointing that manufacturers have only released slightly reworked 2018 models. I guess on the positive side MSRPs have dropped slightly which is only fair as the newer sets have not really progressed. Because there is only one manufacturer of OLED panels, there is no incentive to improve. Hopefully when other technologies emerge that threaten OLED, we will see significant improvements.
Since this is my first OLED, 2019 55” C9 I feel extremely fortunate, that it brings HDMI 2.1 and significant improvements over the C8 In 2018
It’s perfectly everything I need.

What can 2020 bring ? Well if LGs RoadMap is accurate and they have always been. 2020 will bring 50nits brighter over all. And a Segregated Product line. With 8K OLEDs having premium features and processing.
While 4K OLEDs will seem like budget mid range SKUs and a 48” 4K OLED is on tap.

Also WebOS 5 will likely be a huge update.

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post #5 of 27 Old 07-13-2019, 10:34 PM
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How many OLEDs have yall owned? I bought a plasma every year (just about) from 2004 to 2012. By the end they were damn near perfect. I purchased an OLED in 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019. They are damn near perfect. The only real jump is higher nits, but having absolute black, their pop is already outstanding.

Some of ya'll just post to post, hard to improve on damn near perfection.
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post #6 of 27 Old 07-13-2019, 10:43 PM
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^aint that the truth!
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post #7 of 27 Old 07-13-2019, 11:09 PM
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Most TV manufacturers year to year improvements are only marginal. The more significant improvements usually get introduced as a newer higher model.
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post #8 of 27 Old 07-14-2019, 12:02 AM
 
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2020 won't be any major difference, the year after that might result in some noticeable improvements. lg's initial plans to bring top emission around 2019/20 have been delayed , or we might never see top emission at all in case lg just decides to scrap it.
On the fald lcd front, no real improvements either, but the ULED dual layer lcd from hisense might be the breakthrough that lcd's wanted (have to wait and see how that tv turns out).
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post #9 of 27 Old 07-14-2019, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
How many OLEDs have yall owned? I bought a plasma every year (just about) from 2004 to 2012. By the end they were damn near perfect. I purchased an OLED in 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019. They are damn near perfect. The only real jump is higher nits, but having absolute black, their pop is already outstanding.

Some of ya'll just post to post, hard to improve on damn near perfection.
Are they damn near perfect?

I have a very “simple” wish, but it seems like I’ll be waiting a while for it. But yeah, I feel like if the issues above and beyond the actual image these TVs can produce I’d be in TV nirvana for a while and wouldn’t think about upgrading for a long time.

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post #10 of 27 Old 07-14-2019, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
How many OLEDs have yall owned? I bought a plasma every year (just about) from 2004 to 2012. By the end they were damn near perfect. I purchased an OLED in 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019. They are damn near perfect. The only real jump is higher nits, but having absolute black, their pop is already outstanding.

Some of ya'll just post to post, hard to improve on damn near perfection.


I made a personal transition to OLED, with all my tech devices. Going back to the Note 5 when I saw that display it was over today my OLED tech make over is complete.

#1 . Note 9 OLED Display
#2 . LG C9 55”
#3 . Lenovo X1 OLED 15” 4K Laptop touchscreen
#4 . Samsung Tab S6 OLED Tablet. (Pre-order)

Wish they made a reasonably priced 1440p 144Hz Gaming OLED PC Monitor but no one does. And DELL’s PC OLED Display was 32” and cost twice what my 55” LG C9 did.
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post #11 of 27 Old 07-14-2019, 08:58 AM
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IQ on Oleds has been great for some time now, the very best. And from what I read motion handling has been improved year over year. Burn in resistance (the biggest negative with Oled technology in my opinion) is thought to have been improved...year over year. Near black levels perhaps need further refinement (seem great on my 2016 Oled). Not sure exactly what some are using as a gauge to say 2019 is a miss.

8k spool up and refinement is where the attention of the engineers/designers is going to be, going forward regarding Oleds I would think. Along with cost reductions to remain competitive against LCD's...with improving black levels and viewing angles coming to play...and with a proven screen durability track record (no BI risks).

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post #12 of 27 Old 07-14-2019, 09:46 AM
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It's hard to improve when you are already close to perfect. Motion is the big area for improvement. Right now OLED with BFI almost matches plasma. But the tech has the potential to match or exceed the MPRT of CRT.

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post #13 of 27 Old 07-14-2019, 11:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post
How many OLEDs have yall owned? I bought a plasma every year (just about) from 2004 to 2012. By the end they were damn near perfect. I purchased an OLED in 2016, 2017, 2018 and 2019. They are damn near perfect. The only real jump is higher nits, but having absolute black, their pop is already outstanding.

Some of ya'll just post to post, hard to improve on damn near perfection.
Although current OLEDs have a nice picture, they are far from perfect. They could benefit from:

1. Brighter image;
2. Wider color gamut;
3. Better near black performance;
4. No burn-in/elimination of ABL;
5. Better scaling/processing;
6. Better motion;
6. Better gaming performance;
7. and the list goes on.

There are many improvements possible but the manufacturer's at this point do not see the need. They appear content to simply refresh models.

We will see what Panasonic do with their custom panel in the GZ2000 but i doubt it will be more than a few tweaks.
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post #14 of 27 Old 07-14-2019, 01:24 PM
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I completely disagree. Maybe things are not moving at a rabid pace for some but it really was not that long ago I was moving to a new display every other year. Sony XBR960, Sharp Elite, Plasma in the mix.

Those two LCDs were $5k or $6k at the time. It was crazy. Enter OLED and you have just about the best and can stay put for several years or more and still have an awesome display. And cheaper.

My only roadblock now is a move to 77. If you can’t be content with what’s available and appreciate the picture from LG or Sony well that’s a real bummer.

Maybe time to lose those soundbars and focus on audio. You’ll be more content in the end.
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post #15 of 27 Old 07-15-2019, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuck View Post
Although current OLEDs have a nice picture, they are far from perfect. They could benefit from:

1. Brighter image;
2. Wider color gamut;
3. Better near black performance;
4. No burn-in/elimination of ABL;
5. Better scaling/processing;
6. Better motion;
6. Better gaming performance;
7. and the list goes on.

There are many improvements possible but the manufacturer's at this point do not see the need. They appear content to simply refresh models.

We will see what Panasonic do with their custom panel in the GZ2000 but i doubt it will be more than a few tweaks.
Agree that all those could be improved upon, except for number 4. There is no emissive display that can totally eliminate the possibility of burn in, unless the elements that it uses to light the screen never degrade, at all..., ever... Even inorganic LEDs degrade. Just takes longer than the current organic ones used in OLEDs.

And I don't think eliminating ABL is a possibility either. No time soon, that's for sure. ABL is to limit power consumption and heat generation. As long as there are regulations on power consumption of consumer electronics, and as long as these TVs are razor thin and air cooled, don't hold your breath on zero ABL. Even LCD TVs have ABL. Just not to the same extent as OLEDs, cause they don't need to use as much energy to light an all white screen as an OLED does.

They aren't adding ABL just to piss people off.

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post #16 of 27 Old 07-15-2019, 10:31 AM
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Agree that all those could be improved upon, except for number 4. There is no emissive display that can totally eliminate the possibility of burn in, unless the elements that it uses to light the screen never degrade, at all..., ever... Even inorganic LEDs degrade. Just takes longer than the current organic ones used in OLEDs.

And I don't think eliminating ABL is a possibility either. No time soon, that's for sure. ABL is to limit power consumption and heat generation. As long as there are regulations on power consumption of consumer electronics, and as long as these TVs are razor thin and air cooled, don't hold your breath on zero ABL. Even LCD TVs have ABL. Just not to the same extent as OLEDs, cause they don't need to use as much energy to light an all white screen as an OLED does.

They aren't adding ABL just to piss people off.
Exactly. But let me add "Brighter" to that. Brighter might not be better with organic displays...might have a limit. Increased brightness...increases wearing. And should the wearing be very uneven...such as that CNN banner as an example...gaming HUD ect...even cooking shows where the chef is always in the center area...

Just a quick comment, darting in and out.


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post #17 of 27 Old 07-15-2019, 11:08 AM
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Exactly. But let me add "Brighter" to that. Brighter might not be better with organic displays...might have a limit. Increased brightness...increases wearing. And should the wearing be very uneven...such as that CNN banner as an example...gaming HUD ect...even cooking shows where the chef is always in the center area...

Just a quick comment, darting in and out.

Lol @ the gif.

Hear you on brightness decreasing longevity. Would be nice if they could increase life and brightness. Doesn't need to be 4k nits (though that would be AMAZING coupled with pixel level light control) but it would be great to have OLEDs be at 1000 nits in a calibrated state minimum, so that we could forego tone mapping on the majority of content.
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post #18 of 27 Old 07-15-2019, 11:39 AM
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LG supplying the panels might have something to do with the stagnation. GZ2000 could be a possible outlier here as it might be the closest to a modern day Kuro(meaning it separates itself from the rest of the pack easily)
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post #19 of 27 Old 07-15-2019, 12:42 PM
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LG supplying the panels might have something to do with the stagnation. GZ2000 could be a possible outlier here as it might be the closest to a modern day Kuro(meaning it separates itself from the rest of the pack easily)
I really wish Panasonic hadn't stopped selling TVs in the USA.
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post #20 of 27 Old 07-15-2019, 12:56 PM
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Get used to it. Large screen TVs are going the way of cable television. People want small portable devices.

Manufacturers will invest less and less in TVs. Long term, there will a small number of manufacturers that will sell the same TVs to the various consumer electronics companies with different branding. What's happened in OLED will happen to LCD.
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post #21 of 27 Old 07-15-2019, 01:50 PM
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Originally Posted by lganz316 View Post
I don't see any sort of noteworthy improvements in LED-LCD space as well and as usual they are getting smashed by low nit OLEDs in reviews and shootouts.

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Actually, you may have missed some things in the LED-LCD space...

The 1st consumer version dual panel LCD is out (in China only this year). Prior these dual panels were just in professional grading monitors ($20k+). The 1st generation dual panel sports a native contrast close to 150,000:1. Second generation will be out next year, the "Hisense ULED XD" and is slated to the hit the US! Assuming this happens this will be an entirely new generation of LCDs for consumers and a game changer for the industry. 2nd generation demo units they have been showing claim to be 250,000:1 *native ansi contrast* of the LCD panel alone and then they have added a 135 zone FALD so it'll be closer to 500,000:1 or better. It will also have 1500+ nits of brightness for HDR and good color coverage with quantum dots.


Samsung and Sony have included new filter which improve side viewing to be nearly equal to self-emissive displays.


Combine these two and you have a LCD TV with near perfect blacks and good side viewing... so LCD as a technology is advancing. Although to your point only the latter of above mentioned hit the US this year.

Last edited by SiGGy; 07-15-2019 at 01:58 PM.
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post #22 of 27 Old 07-15-2019, 07:00 PM
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LG OLED still has considerable room to improve panel quality/consistency/uniformity. The issues with banding, magenta/yellow tinting, etc. are not something I want to deal with when I'm paying premium prices. Also disappointed that LG basically threw in the towel this year on BFI.
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post #23 of 27 Old 07-16-2019, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Number_6 View Post
LG OLED still has considerable room to improve panel quality/consistency/uniformity. The issues with banding, magenta/yellow tinting, etc. are not something I want to deal with when I'm paying premium prices. Also disappointed that LG basically threw in the towel this year on BFI.
Well it seems they decided fixing the near black level overshoot flashing was more important. At least as far as I have understood things. I guess some people would have liked to be given the choice of which of the two they would prefer to have.

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post #24 of 27 Old 07-16-2019, 06:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knuck View Post
Although current OLEDs have a nice picture, they are far from perfect. They could benefit from:

1. Brighter image;
2. Wider color gamut;
3. Better near black performance;
4. No burn-in/elimination of ABL;
5. Better scaling/processing;
6. Better motion;
6. Better gaming performance;
7. and the list goes on.

There are many improvements possible but the manufacturer's at this point do not see the need. They appear content to simply refresh models.

We will see what Panasonic do with their custom panel in the GZ2000 but i doubt it will be more than a few tweaks.
Out of everything you wrote I believe only a few are legitimate problems. In my opinion Oled has almost mastered SDR picture quality and offers great HDR picture quality.

1.) Brighter image: Oled is more than bright enough for SDR content so I'm assuming you are referring to HDR. HDR brightness needs to get better on all consumer displays not just Oled. There are 10000 nit video games available and no current television LCD or Oled can come close to that brightness.

2.) Wider color gamut. Once again this only comes into play with hdr

3.) Better near black performance. Besides torture tests meant to show issues near black performance is fine on Oled televsions 99% of the time.

4.) ABL will never be eliminated. Burn in is of no concern to me. I have had 4 Oled's at this point and I have never had burn in. I don't break my television in with slides, I don't baby it by keeping brightness low when gaming, avoiding static images, minimizing how long I game, etc

5.) Better scaling/processing. Have you seen any recent Oleds? The scaling/processing is fine for 720p and up. But yes things will need to improve as we move into the 8k era so 1080p and below content can look good.

6.) Better motion. I agree motion can be improved.

7.) Better gaming performance. You would need to explain this further. Oleds have low input lag times especially LG. There is nothing lacking with Oleds gaming performance unless you are referring to the 10000 and 4000 nit hdr games that no consumer television can fully show.

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post #25 of 27 Old 07-16-2019, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post
Get used to it. Large screen TVs are going the way of cable television. People want small portable devices.

Manufacturers will invest less and less in TVs. Long term, there will a small number of manufacturers that will sell the same TVs to the various consumer electronics companies with different branding. What's happened in OLED will happen to LCD.

Agreed 100% internet killed television. The way Samsung and Sony are strategically manufacturing out plans for 10 to 15/Years from now is the TV to be part of a “Wall” not a device that’s replaced every 5- to 10 years. But a piece of the home possibly sold with the home.
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post #26 of 27 Old 07-16-2019, 07:38 PM
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"People want small portable devices"

That's why TV sizes grow larger and larger each year...

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post #27 of 27 Old 07-16-2019, 08:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Micolash View Post
"People want small portable devices"

That's why TV sizes grow larger and larger each year...
Yea, think TV's are somewhat an exception to that rule.

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