Hisense dual LED compared to OLED - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 26Likes
Reply
 
Thread Tools
post #31 of 60 Old 08-04-2019, 07:44 PM
 
Join Date: Jul 2019
Posts: 233
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 188 Post(s)
Liked: 65
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
https://www.cnet.com/news/look-out-o...t-lower-price/
The Hisense ''dual cell'' prototype model is called ULED XD, the massproduction version is called U9E. btw it is only 65 inch currently. You must have seen something else.
It said uled xd in the description on the stand they had kept it on. I might have got the model number wrong because at the booth there were many hisense tv's with model numbers around and this was a display prototype. But i think i saw the right tv because an easy check of dual layer lcd is the tv with a thick bezel, dual layer lcd's are thicker than FALD lcd's and much thicker than oleds. The one i saw was the same, quite thick looking from the side angles. Unless they make significant improvement in the retail model, what I saw was slightly better contrast than the average FALD while less brighter than the brightest lcd's , like the sony zd9 or zf9, and weak motion algorithm. In overall terms, just not close to oled. You can wait and see the retail model for yourself but I would not be optimistic without caution. Instead of waiting for this, i would rather recommend to anyone to just get a lg c9 or c8 (which is cheap now).
Gerry1975 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #32 of 60 Old 08-04-2019, 08:22 PM
Senior Member
 
highmr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Posts: 241
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 107 Post(s)
Liked: 67
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gerry1975 View Post
It said uled xd in the description on the stand they had kept it on. I might have got the model number wrong because at the booth there were many hisense tv's with model numbers around and this was a display prototype. But i think i saw the right tv because an easy check of dual layer lcd is the tv with a thick bezel, dual layer lcd's are thicker than FALD lcd's and much thicker than oleds. The one i saw was the same, quite thick looking from the side angles. Unless they make significant improvement in the retail model, what I saw was slightly better contrast than the average FALD while less brighter than the brightest lcd's , like the sony zd9 or zf9, and weak motion algorithm. In overall terms, just not close to oled. You can wait and see the retail model for yourself but I would not be optimistic without caution. Instead of waiting for this, i would rather recommend to anyone to just get a lg c9 or c8 (which is cheap now).
The tech is interesting regardless of the display maker and whether their motion processing is good or not. Obviously, if you have to buy today, you can't buy it. Whether or not it ends up cost effective vs. OLED for manufacturers you want to buy from (for motion processing) is not settled, but give it a chance.

Living room: Samsung PN60F8500, Sony X800M2, Roku Premiere+, Revel W763, Revel M16, Hsu HB-1 MK2, RSL C34E, Rhythmik D15SE, Denon X4200W; Zone 2: Speaker selector, Yamaha RX-V495 (1999); Bedroom: Panasonic P50U54, Oppo BDP-80, Chromecast Audio, Advent Legacy III (1994), Denon 2310ci; Cabin: Roku 3, NHT Super Zero (1996), Hsu VTF-2 MK4, Denon 1712
highmr is offline  
post #33 of 60 Old 08-04-2019, 10:20 PM
Advanced Member
 
ttnuagmada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 625
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 259 Post(s)
Liked: 278
I don't see how they'll keep the technology from merely making motion/uniformity/viewing angles even worse.
ttnuagmada is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #34 of 60 Old 08-05-2019, 10:50 AM
Member
 
jl4069's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttnuagmada View Post
I don't see how they'll keep the technology from merely making motion/uniformity/viewing angles even worse.
Maybe tech like what Samsung uses on their q90 will be useful in this regard. j
jl4069 is offline  
post #35 of 60 Old 08-05-2019, 02:28 PM
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 56
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 61 Post(s)
Liked: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by mirekti View Post
I thought this would be the correct subforum to post this topic as I am curious about what you thing might happen to OLED in 2020 when Hisense starts selling their panels.
Do you think all major manufacturers will start using their panels the way they use LG’s for OLED nowdays?
Any other thoughts about it?

Nothing because oled will still have superior black levels and contrast and that is what makes a picture looks good. Oled wont have any competition until microled and that is a long way off.
picturequality is offline  
post #36 of 60 Old 08-05-2019, 04:08 PM
KOF
AVS Forum Special Member
 
KOF's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 1,187
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 283 Post(s)
Liked: 240
I went through a couple of reviews in Chinese, and it seems the U9e is a quite a downgrade compared with the XD prototype. Thickness comes in at 12.44mm, yet those fools at Beyond3D think that's thin enough. It's hilarious watching them arguing Dual Layer LCDs having cheaper production cost just because the Hisense's OLED model is 25% more expensive.

Hisense needs more work on fixing up their polarization artifacts if they ever want to gain traction. Chinese reviewers and consumers are not too happy with those artifacts, and compounded uniformity issues. Should have gone with a back-lit just like the Sony HX310, but I guess even Chinese consumers care more about thickness.
JD23 likes this.

Last edited by KOF; 08-05-2019 at 04:12 PM.
KOF is offline  
post #37 of 60 Old 08-05-2019, 07:05 PM
Advanced Member
 
ttnuagmada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 625
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 259 Post(s)
Liked: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by jl4069 View Post
Maybe tech like what Samsung uses on their q90 will be useful in this regard. j
Dual layers will cause issues due to parallaxing. A filter isn't going to be able to do anything about that.
ttnuagmada is offline  
post #38 of 60 Old 08-05-2019, 07:27 PM
Member
 
jl4069's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttnuagmada View Post
Dual layers will cause issues due to parallaxing. A filter isn't going to be able to do anything about that.
Yeah that is unfortunate. There does not appear to be anything anyone can do to fix the viewing angles. In this video Vincent says ...

...the sony dual layer reference, is good until the viewer is 30 degrees off center. Then he says the picture turns yellow and the contrast drops. Not sure if 30 degrees will work for customers. If it doesn't work then I can't see how these sets will work for the mass market. j
jl4069 is offline  
post #39 of 60 Old 08-05-2019, 07:43 PM
Advanced Member
 
ttnuagmada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 625
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 259 Post(s)
Liked: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by jl4069 View Post
Yeah that is unfortunate. There does not appear to be anything anyone can do to fix the viewing angles. In this video Vincent says ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Ee74qdPcmY

...the sony dual layer reference, is good until the viewer is 30 degrees off center. Then he says the picture turns yellow and the contrast drops. Not sure if 30 degrees will work for customers. If it doesn't work then I can't see how these sets will work for the mass market. j
Typical VA panels start gamma-shifting well before 30 degrees, and typically have color shifting before 30 degrees as well. So at the very least it shouldn't be any worse than a VA panel I wouldn't think.
ttnuagmada is offline  
post #40 of 60 Old 08-05-2019, 08:23 PM
Member
 
jl4069's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttnuagmada View Post
Typical VA panels start gamma-shifting well before 30 degrees, and typically have color shifting before 30 degrees as well. So at the very least it shouldn't be any worse than a VA panel I wouldn't think.
I believe Vincent said the Sony dual layer in the video uses a IPS screen. j
jl4069 is offline  
post #41 of 60 Old 08-05-2019, 09:03 PM
Advanced Member
 
ttnuagmada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 625
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 259 Post(s)
Liked: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by jl4069 View Post
I believe Vincent said the Sony dual layer in the video uses a IPS screen. j
Right, I'm just saying that even if it's not as good as a typical IPS, it sounds like it's at least as good as a VA panel in terms of viewing angles.
jl4069 likes this.
ttnuagmada is offline  
post #42 of 60 Old 08-06-2019, 05:19 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
8mile13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,598
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2419 Post(s)
Liked: 1409
Teoh suggests that dual stack design makes viewing angel worse. post #38 at 8:45. In another video they filmed the ULED XD/U9E from the sides, it is a BOE demo at SID Display Week but the TV is a Hisense ULED XD/U9E using a BOE BD Cell panel, starts at 6:20...Aside from better contrast dual layer also helps to eliminate the halo effect seen at the edges of LCDs according Display Daily.

8mile13 is online now  
post #43 of 60 Old 08-06-2019, 10:10 AM
Member
 
jl4069's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by 8mile13 View Post
Teoh suggests that dual stack design makes viewing angel worse. post #38 at 8:45. In another video they filmed the ULED XD/U9E from the sides, it is a BOE demo at SID Display Week but the TV is a Hisense ULED XD/U9E using a BOE BD Cell panel, starts at 6:20...Aside from better contrast dual layer also helps to eliminate the halo effect seen at the edges of LCDs according Display Daily.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vsxp...youtu.be&t=383
I must admit that BOE dual layer LCD does look quite good. Even the viewing angles look good. Seems better with viewing angles than the Sony dual layer reference monitor that Vincent reviewed. Not sure how they do that. Also BOE seems like they are doing something slightly different than Hisense. j
jl4069 is offline  
post #44 of 60 Old 08-06-2019, 12:18 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
8mile13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 7,598
Mentioned: 10 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2419 Post(s)
Liked: 1409
Quote:
Originally Posted by jl4069 View Post
I must admit that BOE dual layer LCD does look quite good. Even the viewing angles look good. Seems better with viewing angles than the Sony dual layer reference monitor that Vincent reviewed. Not sure how they do that. Also BOE seems like they are doing something slightly different than Hisense. j
The BOE model is the Hisense model since it looks exactly the same as the model Hisense demos, BOE is responsable for the panel everything else is Hisense. There is probably the prototype model (ULED XD) and the consumer market model version (U9E). The BOE demo looks like it is the consumer market model.
jl4069 likes this.
8mile13 is online now  
post #45 of 60 Old 08-06-2019, 06:09 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SiGGy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lenexa, Kansas
Posts: 1,406
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 518 Post(s)
Liked: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by Micolash View Post
Vincent just measured 0.004 nit black level on the new Sony professional monitor. That's equal to a 9G Kuro or ZT60 plasma. With near pixel level control, that is a breakthrough for LCD. But it is inferior to OLED. And being an LCD it still suffers from poor viewing angles and uniformity. Peak brightness is 1000 nits, which is not far beyond what OLED is capable of right now; Panasonic is hitting 950 nits this year simply by swapping in their own power circuitry.

Keep in mind, this is a $30,000 professional grade monitor that is still not able to beat a consumer OLED, so the consumer versions of dual LCD (which will have to be affordable, thin, and power efficient) will be even further behind.

I think dual LCD is no threat to OLED, but it could be a huge leap for LCD which has basically hit a plateau with FALD.
Sony uses an IPS panel. Hisense is using a VA panel; this will be 3x darker; or more.
SiGGy is offline  
post #46 of 60 Old 08-06-2019, 06:44 PM
Member
 
jl4069's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post
Sony uses an IPS panel. Hisense is using a VA panel; this will be 3x darker; or more.
That is interesting. Good to know. Strange but the viewing angles in the video, from rather far off axis, look very good on the Hisense. While the viewing angles on the Sony reference don't look as good. Maybe I'm seeing something wrong. j
jl4069 is offline  
post #47 of 60 Old 08-06-2019, 06:51 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SiGGy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lenexa, Kansas
Posts: 1,406
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 518 Post(s)
Liked: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by jl4069 View Post
That is interesting. Good to know. Strange but the viewing angles in the video, from rather far off axis, look very good on the Hisense. While the viewing angles on the Sony reference don't look as good. Maybe I'm seeing something wrong. j
No, I thought the same thing and mentioned it in another thread. They must be using some sort of filter like the Samsung (Q90R) and Sony is this year to improve the side viewing angles.
SiGGy is offline  
post #48 of 60 Old 08-06-2019, 06:56 PM
Member
 
jl4069's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 90
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 25 Post(s)
Liked: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttnuagmada View Post
Dual layers will cause issues due to parallaxing. A filter isn't going to be able to do anything about that.
To filter or not to filter this is the question it seems. lol
jl4069 is offline  
post #49 of 60 Old 08-06-2019, 09:05 PM
Advanced Member
 
ttnuagmada's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Posts: 625
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 259 Post(s)
Liked: 278
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post
Sony uses an IPS panel. Hisense is using a VA panel; this will be 3x darker; or more.
Has that been confirmed? That sounds like a recipe for absolutely awful viewing angles, while also not being necessary.
ttnuagmada is offline  
post #50 of 60 Old 08-07-2019, 03:51 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
SiGGy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Lenexa, Kansas
Posts: 1,406
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 518 Post(s)
Liked: 420
Quote:
Originally Posted by ttnuagmada View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by SiGGy View Post
Sony uses an IPS panel. Hisense is using a VA panel; this will be 3x darker; or more.
Has that been confirmed? That sounds like a recipe for absolutely awful viewing angles, while also not being necessary.
The current production TV in China is VA according to docs. It has amazing side viewing angles.... There's video of it in the other thread in the LCD section.
SiGGy is offline  
post #51 of 60 Old 08-09-2019, 10:24 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
KidHorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Derwood, Maryland
Posts: 5,386
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1831 Post(s)
Liked: 1267
I'll wait until I see one to pass judgement.

Viewing angles aren't important. I would guess 99% of forum members are rarely off center by 15 degrees or more. At my house, it's rare when more than 2 people watch the same thing. At least on the same TV. And when it does happen, they spend more time talking than watching.
VidPro likes this.
KidHorn is offline  
post #52 of 60 Old 08-10-2019, 09:26 PM
Senior Member
 
Dimon.Zorg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2017
Posts: 324
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 245 Post(s)
Liked: 102
The bigger display the more important viewing angles even if you watch TV alone
vkamicht and MechaGodzilla like this.
Dimon.Zorg is offline  
post #53 of 60 Old 08-11-2019, 03:40 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Wizziwig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 3,532
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2223 Post(s)
Liked: 1509
Quote:
Originally Posted by KidHorn View Post
I'll wait until I see one to pass judgement.

Viewing angles aren't important. I would guess 99% of forum members are rarely off center by 15 degrees or more. At my house, it's rare when more than 2 people watch the same thing. At least on the same TV. And when it does happen, they spend more time talking than watching.
Quite the opposite. 99% of forum members will be off-angle by 20% or more if they follow the cinema recommend FOV of 40 degrees. At that FOV, even when sitting at the center of the panel, the left/right borders of the panel will be at 20 degrees off-angle. As you can see from the rtings measurements, visible color shift starts much earlier on many displays and gamma shift (shadow detail change) occurs even quicker on VA LCDs. The new wide-angle filters employed on the Samsung/Sony flagships help mitigate these problem but it's always going to be a challenge when sitting close to large LCD displays.
vkamicht, jk82 and MechaGodzilla like this.
Wizziwig is offline  
post #54 of 60 Old 08-11-2019, 03:57 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Posts: 1,021
Mentioned: 50 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 887 Post(s)
Liked: 925
Yep, it always baffles me when people think viewing angles don't matter if you sit centered...

I thought curved displays were a way to somewhat mitigate this but it seems this was just a temporary marketing trend.
jk82 is offline  
post #55 of 60 Old 08-12-2019, 06:28 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
KidHorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Derwood, Maryland
Posts: 5,386
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1831 Post(s)
Liked: 1267
I was referring to the angle between the screen axis and viewing axis. It's almost always within a few degrees of 90. Not to the far corners of the screen. I thought it was obvious. But I guess not.

I have never noticed an issue with the edge of the screen looking different from the center and I rarely focus my attention on the edge of the screen. Viewing angle issues are overblown.
KidHorn is offline  
post #56 of 60 Old 09-12-2019, 04:44 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Wizziwig's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: SoCal, USA
Posts: 3,532
Mentioned: 23 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2223 Post(s)
Liked: 1509
Some good shots of the viewing angle compared to regular Hisense LCD.


Last edited by Wizziwig; 09-12-2019 at 04:49 AM.
Wizziwig is offline  
post #57 of 60 Old 09-12-2019, 06:08 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
gmarceau's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,150
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 84
Charbax videos always crack me up. Every one starts with “Hi, and who are you”?

It would be nice if they can get per pixel dimming by CES, but I think they’re just going to stick 1080p panels in these since they’re cheaper and that alone is already better than any other local dimming implementation by far.

"If you weren't such an ignorant troll, you'd be adorable" -rogo
gmarceau is offline  
post #58 of 60 Old 09-13-2019, 12:44 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Stuntman_Mike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: NYC
Posts: 1,759
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 761 Post(s)
Liked: 578
Stuntman_Mike is online now  
post #59 of 60 Old 09-14-2019, 07:00 AM
Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2019
Posts: 125
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 92 Post(s)
Liked: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuntman_Mike View Post

Saw this on the other thread! If dual layer doesn't pan out it will take a decade before our LCD brothers and OLED brother align in blissful harmony with micro led!
KD8118 is online now  
post #60 of 60 Old 09-16-2019, 11:57 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
KidHorn's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Derwood, Maryland
Posts: 5,386
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1831 Post(s)
Liked: 1267
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stuntman_Mike View Post
Seems like it's not ready yet. But anyone who has followed TVs for the past decade or so will remember how many times it looked like OLED would never be a commercial product.
KidHorn is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
Reply OLED Technology and Flat Panels General



Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off