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Competition for Oleds? 1000 Zone mini led...

7K views 96 replies 30 participants last post by  8mile13 
#1 ·
 
#2 ·
Competition is great for all of us. But we'll have to wait and see after reviewers and calibrators actually can get their hands on these displays. According to the article on this topic that is already on the main page of this forum, "Compared to OLED, viewing angles are limited. And compared to Samsung’s top QLEDs, the antireflective coating on this TCL is not nearly as effective." So not quite an OLED killer. And not sure many will want to buy a TCL.
 
#9 ·
Yeah, of all the LCDs it was the Sony’s that IMO had the most potential and got most things "right" when it came to picture quality. They still lost out to OLED overall but they were a viable alternative for those that didn’t want an OLED. Sony is clearly in the OLED camp and will continue to drive forward with that tech.

LCD to me has reached its peak, IMO. It takes so much "work" to get them to pass as legit videophile TVs that it’s starting to get tiring. They are great for the lower and some middle markets though. Plenty of folks don’t care seriously about PQ that much so a bright LCD is perfect for them.
 
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#4 ·
Zone count in the 500-1000 zone range has been the norm for high-end FALD LCD TV for years. For TCL, beating top Sony or Samsung models will be tough even with a slight edge in zone count. It takes a 10x increase in zone count to get a visible difference, not 2x (and this is less).

It will begin to count as a different technology once you're past at least 20K zones, and preferably around 100K. At 20K zones, they'll be 400 pixels (in 4K), which is an issue for starfields, but good otherwise. At 100K zones you'll have one per every 4 DVD pixels, pushing blooming down to the edge of perception.
 
#5 ·
I think this will primarily help TCL's traditionally piss-poor uniformity/DSE scores (see rtings reviews or owner threads) by having more LEDs to even out the brightness. Not going to do much to raise overall LCD picture quality bar past existing flagships we've seen from Samsung or Sony. At least this will be cheaper if you're willing to play the QC lottery.
 
#13 ·
The problem for this TV and future dual layer LCDs is cost. This TV comes from a value brand, andit will still be priced around street price of the C9 when it releases in the fall. While TCL's 6 series offers excellent value, no LCD available yet will beat OLED on picture quality. Peak brightness probably will probably be around 1k nits, which is not that much more than OLED while taking the hit on dark room performance and viewing angles.

The 75" TCL could be compelling for someone wanting a larger screen at a 1-2k discount from OLED and willing to accept the PQ differences for the price. The dual layer LCDs are going to be more expensive than this TCL right when OLED prices will start falling with significantly increased production capacity from a new plant coming online.
 
#39 ·
The only competition to OLED for me is my Panasonic 65VT60 Plasma. Spent an evening with her last night and she looks better than my 65B6 OLED. Serious question: How can something 6 years old and extinct look better than my OLED? My eyes tell me it's true.
Got a bad B6...?
 
#71 ·
Which magical VT60 has an MLL of 0 fL? Even if you cap light output to plasma levels and only watch 1080p/SDR my B6 will smoke the VT in both a dark and bright room. Only thing it does better is motion. A9F? You can forget about it, that thing is on another level.
 
#73 ·
I own a 65B7A and find that it suits my current streaming and cable tv needs better than my retired Panny Plasma. When I purchased it, I had viewed all of the LCDs, edge lit, back lit FALD Z9D , Quantum Dot etc etc etc at the time. THe OLED came closest to the performance of my plasma black level wise and was far superior in brightness and crispness (4K vs 1080P).

Having said all of that, IMHO - I would not for one minute underestimate the impact that mini led will have on the TV marketplace. The brightness freaks will be able to be satisfied. The blacks freaks are going to get a set that, in time I beleive, will rival OLED blacks. Bear in mind that this is the first generation of this tech on a commercially available product that consumers can go out and buy. As TCL evolves the tech, developing more precise control over dimming zones, blooming will become minimal to non existent. And I'm thinking they'll likely add more LEDs to the mix as they learn more about how to manufacture them and individually address and control them.

And I seriously doubt that Samsung and Sony are going to stand pat while TCL beats them to the punch technologically while undercutting them on price. Who knows, TCL could potentially become the LGD of Mini LED, selling panels to other manufacturers who add their own control and processing software.

OLED needs to get brighter to compete going forward as the AVERAGE consumer, I believe, judges by what their eyes see in the store. Brightness counts and when you add rich inky blacks to the deal, I think TCL has a winner on it's hands. That's until others find a way to catch up in the ability to display very bright images coupled with inky blacks and minimal to no blooming.
 
#75 ·
OLED needs to get brighter to compete going forward as the AVERAGE consumer, I believe, judges by what their eyes see in the store.
It's not targeting the *average consumer* just yet. The average consumer judges by the price sticker, especially if there's a big "discount" written on it.

Any attempt to compete with LCD in brightness is pointless, it's cheap to just add bigger LEDs or to double them up. The only limiting factors are power supply and heat removal. LCD will always be brighter than competing techs, including micro-LED, as long as it cares to compete.

TCL's product is just another FALD, it will have the same good-but-not-quite blacks as every other top-of-the-range FALD to this point. The 100" Sony Z9D has 1500 zones, it doesn't look like an OLED, and Sony's got more expertise in the algorithms than TCL.
 
#78 ·
Once they pass a certain zone count, each LED won't require a lot of brightness and electricity to operate. At that point, they'll be able to etch the circuits for the backlight. And the number of zones will be able to scale tremendously. Right now LEDs can be made so small that you can barely see them unless they're on.
 
#81 ·
I buy the TV with the best technology at the time I am buying a TV. I am not married to any technology. If LCD can produce the best for my needs at the time I will buy it, if it is OLED, micro LED, some new tech we have never heard of, I will buy it.

I do not think that this years TCL 1000 zone set will out do this years OLEDs. But, since the set is not out, it is impossible to tell how well it will do. But, it does signal (along with dual layer LCDs) coming technology that could out perform OLEDs soon. But, of course OLEDs will improve too. OLEDs have weaknesses too -- color volume, brightness, price, etc. But, if you see the recent Vincent video on what Panasonic has done to today's OLED, squeezing out another 200 nits and cutting down burn in issues in the process, one could only imagine how much better they will get in the future.

I am glad to see technology marching on in several areas, and I will be happy to buy the winner(s).
 
#84 · (Edited)
Interesting demonstration that clearly shows they group the mini-leds at 7 across and 4 down to form each rectangular zone.
(~25,000 total mini-led) / (28 mini-led per zone) = about 892 individually addressable rectangular zones.

https://youtu.be/zHcftJNWSKU?t=194
 

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