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post #1 of 195 Old 08-18-2019, 03:33 AM - Thread Starter
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HDTVtest 2019 UK TV Shootout Discussion


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post #2 of 195 Old 08-18-2019, 03:40 AM
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Panasonic GZ2000!

Was about to create this thread myself, waiting for Vincent's video.

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post #3 of 195 Old 08-18-2019, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
LOL! The tv on the most left closely resemble the reference monitor. It doesn't have the blue shade....

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post #4 of 195 Old 08-18-2019, 03:48 AM - Thread Starter
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HDTVtest 2019 UK TV Shootout Discussion

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Originally Posted by New_to_4K View Post
LOL! The tv on the most left closely resemble the reference monitor. It doesn't have the blue shade....


It’s not really fair to judge from a terrible iPhone photo

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post #5 of 195 Old 08-18-2019, 03:49 AM - Thread Starter
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This is a blind shootout, all the bezels have been masked. Should be interesting.


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post #6 of 195 Old 08-18-2019, 03:55 AM
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This is a blind shootout, all the bezels have been masked. Should be interesting.

This is how the American shootout should have been done - Blind test.
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The Panasonic will get brigher than the other ones and because of that everybody will know which is the Panasonic. Of course the LCD will get brighter but everybody also will know which is the LCD. With two TVs left the Sony OLED will do better with low quality sources than the LG OLED. Blindtest...really?

https://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/n/2019-TV...sung-Q90R-QLED
LG C9;
Panasonic GZ2000;
Samsung Q90R; and
Sony AG9.
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post #8 of 195 Old 08-18-2019, 06:53 AM
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The Panasonic will get brigher than the other ones and because of that everybody will know which is the Panasonic. Of course the LCD will get brighter but everybody also will know which is the LCD. With two TVs left the Sony OLED will do better with low quality sources than the LG OLED. Blindtest...really?

https://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/n/2019-TV...sung-Q90R-QLED
LG C9;
Panasonic GZ2000;
Samsung Q90R; and
Sony AG9.
The Samsung is probably the only one that will stand out (LCD), the rest all share the same panel from LG. I haven't seen a GZ2000 in person so I won't know which is which.

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post #9 of 195 Old 08-18-2019, 07:04 AM
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Originally Posted by New_to_4K View Post
The Samsung is probably the only one that will stand out (LCD), the rest all share the same panel from LG. I haven't seen a GZ2000 in person so I won't know which is which.
The GZ2000 is a unfinished panel that is why Panasonic could make it brighter than the other ones...which they have done. Also Sony will do low quality sources best. Not shure why you think that people who attend are not capable seeing differences which are obvious to see. It is a for the most part informed audience which will have not much difficulty picking out which TV is from what manufacturer.
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post #10 of 195 Old 08-18-2019, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by New_to_4K View Post
The Samsung is probably the only one that will stand out (LCD), the rest all share the same panel from LG. I haven't seen a GZ2000 in person so I won't know which is which.
Samsung Q90 is all the way to the left, screen "A"... it's more that obvious because it's the only screen with no room reflections. The photo demonstrates how advantageous that is for black levels when there is ambient light in the room (obviously turn down the lights and that advantage evaporates).

So what's left is the 3 OLEDs, which is an interesting comparison to do blind, no question!


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post #11 of 195 Old 08-18-2019, 07:19 AM
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This is how the American shootout should have been done - Blind test.
We didn't do a blind test because we wanted to show Dark room and Bright room, HDR and DV picture modes. You physically need to use the remote to make the change from Dark to Bright for example and the menu's would have given away the set's identity. Also when you switch to HDR and or DV some sets have a logo displayed which can also give away the identity of the set.

Tyler, how are they getting around this problem? Just one PM?
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We didn't do a blind test because we wanted to show Dark room and Bright room, HDR and DV picture modes. You physically need to use the remote to make the change from Dark to Bright for example and the menu's would have given away the set's identity. Also when you switch to HDR and or DV some sets have a logo displayed which can also give away the identity of the set.

Tyler, how are they getting around this problem? Just one PM?
In UK, they hide the tv behind curtain when making changes to video source.

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In photos and videos OLED always seem to me to have a slight blue cast when put side by side with an LCD. This blue is not there when seen live or if there is no LCD to compare it with. Depends on the camera used I guess. In any case this indicates to me the tv on the left is the Samsung.

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In photos and videos OLED always seem to me to have a slight blue cast when put side by side with an LCD. This blue is not there when seen live or if there is no LCD to compare it with. Depends on the camera used I guess. In any case this indicates to me the tv on the left is the Samsung.
My guess is they did a perceptual match which would virtually eliminate that problem.

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post #15 of 195 Old 08-18-2019, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
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HDTVtest 2019 UK TV Shootout Discussion

Results:

Best Living Room TV: Panasonic GZ2000

Best Home Theater TV: Panasonic GZ2000

Best HDR TV: LG C9

Best Gaming TV: LG C9

Best Overall TV of 2019: LG C9

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My guess is they did a perceptual match which would virtually eliminate that problem.
Doesn't look like it. The TV on the left has no blue tint while the rest has it.

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post #17 of 195 Old 08-18-2019, 07:36 AM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
Results:

Best Living Room TV: Panasonic GZ2000

Best Home Theater TV: Panasonic GZ2000

Best HDR TV: LG C9

Best Gaming TV: LG C9

Best TV of 2019: LG C9
Wow! LG won. Congrats! Maybe time for me to get back the E9 that I returned in anticipation of GZ2000. Cheaper too.

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post #18 of 195 Old 08-18-2019, 07:37 AM
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Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
Results:

Best Living Room TV: Panasonic GZ2000

Best Home Theater TV: Panasonic GZ2000


Best HDR TV: LG C9

Best Gaming TV: LG C9

Best TV of 2019: LG C9
You'd think between winning those two categories, you'd also have a win for best TV overall? Did gaming push the C9 over the top?

I'll wait and read all about it...
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post #19 of 195 Old 08-18-2019, 07:41 AM
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You'd think between winning those two categories, you'd also have a win for best TV overall? Did gaming push the C9 over the top?

I'll wait and read all about it...
Mark,
Who did the judging? Pros? Audience? combination?

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Mark,
Who did the judging? Pros? Audience? combination?
Beats me, I have not been following... I just jumped in when I saw this thread.

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post #21 of 195 Old 08-18-2019, 07:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Mark,

Who did the judging? Pros? Audience? combination?


38 enthusiast audience members
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post #22 of 195 Old 08-18-2019, 07:43 AM
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38 enthusiast audience members
That explains the results. Looked good though too bad they didn't stream it.

Vincent does an excellent job so I don't want to diminish anything they are doing but as another point of view, one thing we found at the VE Shootout is the professional judges were looking to find the set that reproduced the post production work the best, meaning the most accurate picture. The enthusiast and consumers mostly like slightly different characteristics, brighter, maybe more saturated PQ. There is no right or wrong since consumers are the people buying the sets but it's an interesting fact that was discovered. Many pro calibrators have discussed that the LG generally displays what consumers seem to like better, especially with HDR, which is what they should be doing to sell sets but maybe this is why the Panasonic which is supposed to have the best reference PQ didn't win against the LG.

All sets are excellent and we are splitting hairs but just an interesting factoid to help put things into perspective.
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post #23 of 195 Old 08-18-2019, 07:55 AM
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Someone should seriously do a comparison video of C9 vs GZ2000. Torn between the E9 and GZ2000.

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post #24 of 195 Old 08-18-2019, 08:13 AM
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My guess is they did a perceptual match which would virtually eliminate that problem.
As i remember it Teoh did that last year so he probably does it this year to.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiFi-Spy View Post
Results:

Best Living Room TV: Panasonic GZ2000

Best Home Theater TV: Panasonic GZ2000

Best HDR TV: LG C9

Best Gaming TV: LG C9

Best Overall TV of 2019: LG C9
I think these results basically tell us the same thing that has been the case for the past 2 years, the differences between LG, Sony and Panasonic are mostly minor and come down to a few things:

1. Usage case aka what content are you consuming?

2. Personal preference about UI and the subtle differences between the sets

3. Pricing/availability in your region
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post #26 of 195 Old 08-18-2019, 08:35 AM
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The reference monitor was the Sony BVM X300 OLED.


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This was Vincent's plan this year that public would cast votes, as he announced in his YouTube video a while back. Last two years Panasonic won best home theatre TV and best overall TV , this year it won best home theatre TV but not overall, the difference being,last two years professionals also had a say in the voting , not this year as only public voted .And there wasn't a separate Dolby vision category because the Panasonic gz2000 does Dolby vision best compared to all other TV's. Overall the LG was announced the best and of course , HDMI 2.1 and gaming played a factor in that. Because lg is the only TV with HDMI 2.1, many among the public care about HDMI 2.1 and gaming features, so LG had an advantage with that when judging overall best tv. Oh....and the oled I own, Sony AG9, did not win a single category, seeing these results you would believe the top dog fight was between Panasonic and LG, and the Sony AG9/A9G is a low end oled.


I use oled purely as a home theatre TV, I'm not a gamer, for me the ranking would be...panasonic GZ2000>Sony AG9>LG C9.
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post #28 of 195 Old 08-18-2019, 09:17 AM
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Thanks to the all the people involved in making it another great event. That was fantastic and the blind format went off without a hitch. Credit to the whole team for being creative and taking feedback into making each event better than the previous years'.

What was the biggest advantage of the blind test? The virtual elimination of confirmation bias is what I'd say. People were actually discussing differences and inquisitive on what they see certain things on display vs another. This was a contrast to previous years where the audience was mainly justifying their purchase or trying to imprint their brand preference onto others. Not in some aggressive manner mind you, just a subconscious baggage we all carry.

I've been paying very little attention to the new batch of sets so it was very much a blind test to me thus I was mainly concerned with what I was seeing on screen. If wish I could see how my score related to the overall findings but I think it'd be close.

My personal take is as follows so feel free to get offended at your own discretion:

A. Samsung Q90R. It's *only* use case is bright viewing in a reflective room. If that's your main use case, go for it! As soon as lights go dim or it's asked to handle dark content, it's game over. I have no idea what it costs but unless it's 50% lower than the cheapest OLED on stage, absolutely no would be my take on this.

B. Panasonic GZ200. Very solid all around. The two things that I would have a hard time getting over; it's over dimming of static logo's and it's banding issue due to Panasonic over driving the panel to hit high nits. Both pieces are clearly visible and would start grating after a while. Price difference is virtually impossible to justify.

C. LG C9. Easily the star of the show. Either on par or ahead in most areas. The set I'd take except for one big issue. Vertical lines on black content. Vincent mentioned that was the 2nd panel and the 1st one had even worse lines. If this is a LG processing issue, I'd be concerned. Lower on the list is the low apl handling of highly compressed dark content such as S8 Ep3 of Game of Thrones.

D. Sony AG9. It's failure on HDR tone mapping is unacceptable and the fact that Sony doubles down on it's being the right way tells me it's not for me. It's smooth gradation advantage of years past has been more or less matched by LG now. Hard to say what they're left with at this stage unless you have a preference for their method of HDR.

As standard definition content becomes a thing of the past, upscaling of standard definition has little to no relevance and all the sets did a great job of scaling up 1080i/p content to 4k so no real magic to be had there.

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Thanks to the all the people involved in making it another great event. That was fantastic and the blind format went off without a hitch. Credit to the whole team for being creative and taking feedback into making each event better than the previous years'.

What was the biggest advantage of the blind test? The virtual elimination of confirmation bias is what I'd say. People were actually discussing differences and inquisitive on what they see certain things on display vs another. This was a contrast to previous years where the audience was mainly justifying their purchase or trying to imprint their brand preference onto others. Not in some aggressive manner mind you, just a subconscious baggage we all carry.

I've been paying very little attention to the new batch of sets so it was very much a blind test to me thus I was mainly concerned with what I was seeing on screen. If wish I could see how my score related to the overall findings but I think it'd be close.

My personal take is as follows so feel free to get offended at your own discretion:

A. Samsung Q90R. It's *only* use case is bright viewing in a reflective room. If that's your main use case, go for it! As soon as lights go dim or it's asked to handle dark content, it's game over. I have no idea what it costs but unless it's 50% lower than the cheapest OLED on stage, absolutely no would be my take on this.

B. Panasonic GZ200. Very solid all around. The two things that I would have a hard time getting over; it's over dimming of static logo's and it's banding issue due to Panasonic over driving the panel to hit high nits. Both pieces are clearly visible and would start grating after a while. Price difference is virtually impossible to justify.

C. LG C9. Easily the star of the show. Either on par or ahead in most areas. The set I'd take except for one big issue. Vertical lines on black content. Vincent mentioned that was the 2nd panel and the 1st one had even worse lines. If this is a LG processing issue, I'd be concerned. Lower on the list is the low apl handling of highly compressed dark content such as S8 Ep3 of Game of Thrones.

D. Sony AG9. It's failure on HDR tone mapping is unacceptable and the fact that Sony doubles down on it's being the right way tells me it's not for me. It's smooth gradation advantage of years past has been more or less matched by LG now. Hard to say what they're left with at this stage unless you have a preference for their method of HDR.

As SDR content becomes a thing of the past, upscaling of SDR has little to no relevance and all the sets did a great job of scaling up 1080i/p content to 4k so no real magic to be had there.
Huh? When? Do I get to watch the Super Bowl in HDR anytime soon? (I know, we're talking streaming shows and movies not live sports but just sayin'). For most people, HD SDR is gonna be the bulk of their viewing for a little while longer, I suspect. Sports/broadcast for sure, and also the general disparity between the size of the catalog of what's available on Blu-ray vs. Ultra HD Blu-ray (for the home theater/movie crowd).

Anyhow, good to know the TVs all handle the SDR upscaled stuff well.
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post #30 of 195 Old 08-18-2019, 09:22 AM
 
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You'd think between winning those two categories, you'd also have a win for best TV overall? Did gaming push the C9 over the top?

I'll wait and read all about it...
Yes, when they rate best overall TV, they add the points scored in the individual categories. This year LG was at a bigger advantage in the gaming category compared to previous years,. because it includes HDMI 2.1 and other TV's have HDMI 2.0b . And that gaming category advantage carries over for LG when
adding points and declaring best overall TV.
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