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post #1 of 16 Old 08-22-2019, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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QD-OLED Burn in

I have been reading a lot of articles with mentions that Samsung is trying to address OLED burn in with QD-Oled. I haven't really been able to find anything concrete just speculation. Anyomne have any input?
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post #2 of 16 Old 08-22-2019, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by KD8118 View Post
I have been reading a lot of articles with mentions that Samsung is trying to address OLED burn in with QD-Oled. I haven't really been able to find anything concrete just speculation. Anyomne have any input?
QD-OLED burns in even worse than WOLED, which is one of the primary reasons Samsung continues to delay the commitment to production:

https://www.oled-info.com/reports-ko...s-it-can-begin

Samsung has still not found a solution based on long-lifetime phosphorescent Blue and as long as QD-BOLED is based on short-lifetime florescent blue, it may never see the light of day...
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post #3 of 16 Old 08-22-2019, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
QD-OLED burns in even worse than WOLED, which is one of the primary reasons Samsung continues to delay the commitment to production:

https://www.oled-info.com/reports-ko...s-it-can-begin

Samsung has still not found a solution based on long-lifetime phosphorescent Blue and as long as QD-BOLED is based on short-lifetime florescent blue, it may never see the light of day...

Thats discouraging. I read articles saying they were going to improve burn in overall.
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post #4 of 16 Old 08-22-2019, 10:06 AM
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Thats discouraging. I read articles saying they were going to improve burn in overall.
Certainly, but 'were going to' and 'have' mean different things...

Blue is the most fragile (quickly-aging) OLED color, and florescent blue is the worst of all (and all that is used commercially today).

Samsung's current QD-BOLED solution relies exclusively on florescent blue for each and every electeo-optical convetsion (electrons to photons) and as long as that is the case, QD-BOLED will be more susceptible to burn-in than LGD's WOLED (which relies on longer-lifetime red and green, in addition to florescent blue).

Great new Blue OLED materials are coming (phosphorescent, TADF, Hyperflorescent) which will eventually change the math, but the hoped-for/hyped commercialization of these new materials keeps getting delayed and pushed-out.

Will we see prototypes of QD-BOLED from Samsung at CES in 5 months? Very possibly. But they will either be based in florescent blue (which Samsung does not want to commercialize), or they will be prototypes based on one if these new Blue materials that is still in the R&D phase and not yet in production.

Either way, it's looking like 2023 is the earliest we can hope to see QD-BOLED in every Best Buy (it'll realistically take 2 years from when commercialized long-lifetime Blue gets announced or from when Samsung releases production equipment purchase orders, whichever comes last...
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post #5 of 16 Old 08-22-2019, 10:56 AM
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I think the door is closing quickly for Samsung to come out with an OLED product to compete with LG's. LG is just too far ahead at this point. Unless it's price competitive or significantly superior, I just can't see it being successful. I wouldn't be surprised if Samsung pulls the plug on QD-BOLED. If they do, will hell freeze over with them eventually buying LG panels? Seems like not, but you never know and they may ultimately have no choice, except to abandon the consumer TV market altogether.


The endgame of OLED was super cheap production costs, and it looks like LG is well on their way to dominating the premium and mid-level market. It won't be long after that they'll enter the budget market as well. Then it's game over. Well, unless someone else can come up with something better and price competitive.


All speculation of course, and we will just have to see what happens.
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post #6 of 16 Old 08-22-2019, 11:17 AM
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If they end up with a product they maybe just call it ''a samsung OLED'' and hope for the best.
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post #7 of 16 Old 08-22-2019, 12:09 PM
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Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post
I think the door is closing quickly for Samsung to come out with an OLED product to compete with LG's. LG is just too far ahead at this point. Unless it's price competitive or significantly superior, I just can't see it being successful. I wouldn't be surprised if Samsung pulls the plug on QD-BOLED. If they do, will hell freeze over with them eventually buying LG panels? Seems like not, but you never know and they may ultimately have no choice, except to abandon the consumer TV market altogether.


The endgame of OLED was super cheap production costs, and it looks like LG is well on their way to dominating the premium and mid-level market. It won't be long after that they'll enter the budget market as well. Then it's game over. Well, unless someone else can come up with something better and price competitive.


All speculation of course, and we will just have to see what happens.
Yes, the next big indicator will be the investment decision now rescheduled for October. If that gets delayed again into 2020, it's hard to see how QD-BOLED has any realistic chance of ever catching up.

From my point of view, once LGD has their 10.5G WOLED plant in production, it will be pretty much game-over for any new display technology to gain any major share. WOLED performance is close enough to 'perfect' that further performance breakthroughs to justify 2-3 times the TV cost just aren't there any more.

LCD, on the other hand, will be around for a long, long time. There in no way a single supplier can compete against the plethora of state-sponsered 10.5G LCD manufacturers, so the timeframe to WOLED panels truly being less expensive to manufacture than LCD is essentially as far as you can see.

If/when LGD licenses WOLED manufacturing to other parters, that could change the math, but no indications of that yet.

As long as it is only LGD supplying the entire WOLED TV industry, it would take a sea-change such as rollable TVs becoming to flat-screens what flat-screens were to CRT for the LCD industry to truly begin to die...
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post #8 of 16 Old 08-22-2019, 12:39 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Yes, the next big indicator will be the investment decision now rescheduled for October. If that gets delayed again into 2020, it's hard to see how QD-BOLED has any realistic chance of ever catching up.

From my point of view, once LGD has their 10.5G WOLED plant in production, it will be pretty much game-over for any new display technology to gain any major share. WOLED performance is close enough to 'perfect' that further performance breakthroughs to justify 2-3 times the TV cost just aren't there any more.

LCD, on the other hand, will be around for a long, long time. There in no way a single supplier can compete against the plethora of state-sponsered 10.5G LCD manufacturers, so the timeframe to WOLED panels truly being less expensive to manufacture than LCD is essentially as far as you can see.

If/when LGD licenses WOLED manufacturing to other parters, that could change the math, but no indications of that yet.

As long as it is only LGD supplying the entire WOLED TV industry, it would take a sea-change such as rollable TVs becoming to flat-screens what flat-screens were to CRT for the LCD industry to truly begin to die...

Yes, but let's hope that if LG's WOLED is successful enough in the next few years it will justify further R&D improvements along the lines of trying to move away from WOLED to native RGB OLED. If they can make it work eventually, it should mean more energy efficient and brighter displays (something the industry is always striving for, so there is hope for it -- it would seem).


IMO, WOLED is not a true emissive display tech but is instead a hybrid emissive/transmissive display tech. Even though the light is controlled at the individual pixel level and the light can be completely turned off, it's still white light passing through color filters the same as LCD, which is far from ideal for number of reasons. Hence also why some describe WOLED as still looking like an LCD with perfect blacks (since this is basically what it is).

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post #9 of 16 Old 08-22-2019, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
If/when LGD licenses WOLED manufacturing to other parters, that could change the math, but no indications of that yet.

It's way to early for that to happen, but if it's successful enough, I could easily see that happening at some point down the road. Especially if they can't keep up with demand.


I would love LCD to die completely, but it seems unlikely anytime soon (if ever) that it will.
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post #10 of 16 Old 08-22-2019, 02:39 PM
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Yes, but let's hope that if LG's WOLED is successful enough in the next few years it will justify further R&D improvements along the lines of trying to move away from WOLED to native RGB OLED. If they can make it work eventually, it should mean more energy efficient and brighter displays (something the industry is always striving for, so there is hope for it -- it would seem).


IMO, WOLED is not a true emissive display tech but is instead a hybrid emissive/transmissive display tech. Even though the light is controlled at the individual pixel level and the light can be completely turned off, it's still white light passing through color filters the same as LCD, which is far from ideal for number of reasons. Hence also why some describe WOLED as still looking like an LCD with perfect blacks (since this is basically what it is).
Hard disagree on that. OLED looks nothing like LCD. It looks like plasma but without the flaws and a bit worse motion.
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post #11 of 16 Old 08-22-2019, 04:31 PM
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If they end up with a product they maybe just call it ''a samsung OLED'' and hope for the best.
Samsung is a marketing machine. They can say, "we are the kings of OLED and we have had OLED displays in our phones for 10 years." "These are our televisions., buy them" They can use any marketing lingo they want and the masses will perk up. They dont have to address burn in because most people wont see it anyway and they could try to get away with it in the present. They can come out with an unfinished product, knowing the can perfect it later. Question is, will they? I guess it depnds on how long they can take being 2nd best when it comes to high end display manufacturing.

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post #12 of 16 Old 08-22-2019, 04:53 PM
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It's way to early for that to happen, but if it's successful enough, I could easily see that happening at some point down the road. Especially if they can't keep up with demand.


I would love LCD to die completely, but it seems unlikely anytime soon (if ever) that it will.
Not with the threat of burn-in on OLEDs, or with dual-LCD and mini/micro-LED displays still in development.
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post #13 of 16 Old 08-23-2019, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post
IMO, WOLED is not a true emissive display tech but is instead a hybrid emissive/transmissive display tech. Even though the light is controlled at the individual pixel level and the light can be completely turned off, it's still white light passing through color filters the same as LCD, which is far from ideal for number of reasons. Hence also why some describe WOLED as still looking like an LCD with perfect blacks (since this is basically what it is).
Light filters don't take away from its emissive nature, and your long-held hatred of WOLED notwithstanding, the lacking uniformity is the only area where I miss plasma (at its zenith).
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post #14 of 16 Old 08-23-2019, 10:12 AM
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I have been reading a lot of articles with mentions that Samsung is trying to address OLED burn in with QD-Oled. I haven't really been able to find anything concrete just speculation. Anyomne have any input?
We shall see, but there are about 6 15” OLED Laptops on the market for 2019 All are using a Samsung OLED Display. Because Samsung way undercut LG on pricing in hopes Apple would take notice and place a massive order for 15” 4K OLED Displays for its 15” MacBook Pro. If anything would be prone to burn it would be PC Laptop.
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post #15 of 16 Old 08-23-2019, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Dianabol5mg View Post
Samsung is a marketing machine. They can say, "we are the kings of OLED and we have had OLED displays in our phones for 10 years." "These are our televisions., buy them" They can use any marketing lingo they want and the masses will perk up. They dont have to address burn in because most people wont see it anyway and they could try to get away with it in the present. They can come out with an unfinished product, knowing the can perfect it later. Question is, will they? I guess it depnds on how long they can take being 2nd best when it comes to high end display manufacturing.

You are so right I know people who think that Samsung qled is a special kind of tech they are not aware that its still a lcd led tv and Vizio, Sony and other manufacturers also use the same quantum dots. I have to be explaining to them whats really going on.
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post #16 of 16 Old 08-24-2019, 08:08 AM
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Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
Light filters don't take away from its emissive nature, and your long-held hatred of WOLED notwithstanding, the lacking uniformity is the only area where I miss plasma (at its zenith).

Not hatred, just not ideally what I want. I'm just partial to native RGB technology as I think it's inherently the best. This is independent of whether it's OLED or something else. I fully realize, with OLED at least, that it may never happen, but I can hold out hope still.
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