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post #1 of 65 Old 10-29-2019, 04:23 AM - Thread Starter
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A9G or C9 77 inch

Was looking for a thread comparing these 2 and only found A8G or C9, so here goes. I see the A9G is the lowest price it's been, same as what the C9 was a few weeks ago. It's actually cheaper than the C9 as of today, I believe this is the first time I see a Sony A9G be at the same price or lower than the LG OLED (77 inch version). I really want to get one of these 77 inch models but have been holding out due to price and not having a large enough TV stand to accommodate. I'm mainly interested in picture quality, not a gamer here so that's not important to me. Are these both similar when it comes to uniformity (100% white and 5% Black) or is one better than the other. Are there any owners out there who own both?

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post #2 of 65 Old 10-29-2019, 05:40 AM
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The pluses and minuses of both have been beaten to death already. Since you don't game, it comes down to how you will use the display. One major advantage of the C9 had been price, but it sounds like that advantage is now gone. If you mainly will watch 4k material, then the C9 may have more "pop". But the A9G does a better job with upscaling and motion handling, so if you mainly watch SDR material (TV broadcasts, BluRay discs), then I'd go with the A9G. Lastly, according to some of the calibrators, Sony may have fewer issues with banding and uniformity (the best panels sourced from LG reportedly go to Sony and the higher LG models such as the E9). To be honest, you can't go wrong with either, so you may just want to go with whichever is the lowest price.
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post #3 of 65 Old 10-29-2019, 05:50 AM - Thread Starter
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thanks BillP, i have 2 LG's (C7 and C9) . Both are great. They do have some quirks that I could do without, for me mainly it's the audio sync issues with my soundbar. I have found switching audio settings back and fourth between auto and passthrough work, just wish i could leave it one way and forget about it.

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post #4 of 65 Old 10-29-2019, 03:49 PM
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C9 is best for gaming.
A9G is best for movies and general TV watching.
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post #5 of 65 Old 10-29-2019, 08:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akadennis View Post
Was looking for a thread comparing these 2 and only found A8G or C9, so here goes. I see the A9G is the lowest price it's been, same as what the C9 was a few weeks ago. It's actually cheaper than the C9 as of today, I believe this is the first time I see a Sony A9G be at the same price or lower than the LG OLED (77 inch version). I really want to get one of these 77 inch models but have been holding out due to price and not having a large enough TV stand to accommodate. I'm mainly interested in picture quality, not a gamer here so that's not important to me. Are these both similar when it comes to uniformity (100% white and 5% Black) or is one better than the other. Are there any owners out there who own both?
Here's my advice, if the Sony is cheaper get the Sony, if the LG is cheaper get the LG. They are BOTH excellent for movies and gaming. Neither one of these sets out performs the other, as they are both very similar...As far as uniformity, like any set it's a lottery. Which ever you go with is a win win, especially now with how low prices have gone.
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post #6 of 65 Old 10-29-2019, 11:04 PM
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Panel lottery is not the same with every set though. The flagship oleds have much better chance of getting you more uniform panels because of panel binning done by manufacturer. So tv's like W, A9G, GZ2000, 954 will fare better and not have the same kind of 'lottery' (weird word invented by people for tv's). The C9 is not LG's flagship, LG's flagship is W9 whereas A9G is sony's flagship. If you live in a place where there is no return policy for uniformity issues like me, better to go with the higher end model. I buy these tv's online with no return policy except in the case of a completely defunct tv. Retail stores don't exist anywhere near me as I live in a remote area, so getting a more uniform panel is important to me as I cannot exchange whatever I receive the first time.
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post #7 of 65 Old 10-29-2019, 11:08 PM
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^yeah...unless you have some form of hard evidence of panel binning, you have absolutely nothing to support that kind of claim. If you feel better buying the higher end version thinking you will get a more uniform panel, then that's a personal choice. Lastly while you state the C9 is not the flagship model for LG, aside from aesthetics, all LG models to exclude the B series have absolutely the same pq, only difference is panel variance, that is a fact and has remained the same since 2016.
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post #8 of 65 Old 10-29-2019, 11:17 PM
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Yeah panel variance because the W's source premium graded panels, therefore much better chances of getting a uniform display. This is directly from talking to LG PR representative in person, I believe what he told to me. It stands to reason, you don't assume the 4x or so price they charge for W is only for prettier wallpaper looks and better speakers, you get a premium graded panel. In LG's case the PQ is same but with sony, you also get a better processor in the flagship.
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post #9 of 65 Old 10-29-2019, 11:30 PM
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^I've heard the same schtick for years...again if you wanna believe that that's fine...but saying some rep told you so ain't gonna cut it on here, I've talked to LG, Sony, and Samsung reps...If it were a "premium" graded panel, why not market it as such, again this has been beaten to death here. Sony is not LG, what they do with there processing is irrelevant to LG.

If their were binning:

1. What is the SOP regarding which panels go to which brands?

2. Why has no review site picked up on this yet?

3. Why has LG not taken advantage of binning and market it...big
oversight.

4. If their truly is binning we would have some real evidence here.

5. Also for LG this ties I to point #1 , how do panels get graded off the assembly line? Which panels go to B/C/E/W, does someone say oh this has a ton of banding...that's a B series panel...

LGD manufacturers the panels, and brands throw in their Koolaid and that's what your paying for.

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post #10 of 65 Old 10-30-2019, 12:04 AM
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If you are incredulous about it, then that's on you. But the informed people know about it. Just because LG decides to not make this info public because of company policy doesn't mean that LG PR representative cannot discuss this in a private conversation, which I had.
These panels are made through an oled deposition method on glass substrates which leads to panel tolerance variances and LG then sorts these panels based upon QC grades (the premium graded ones are usually given the name A). OEM's that pay higher to LG get the A ones, otherwise they get the standard ones. OEM's have the budget with flagship models to procure the A ones, because they price the flagships high.
Also expect panel variance to increase in the coming years, because LG until now has only had one facility worldwide located in Korea, now they're starting up a similar facility in China as well, so panels will be pushed out from both the facilities, leading to higher chances of variance.
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post #11 of 65 Old 10-30-2019, 12:31 AM
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^Lol, indcredulous...ok🤣

If you really believe that panel binning happens, it's your money, not mine, but saying, their are people in the "know", or saying you had a private conversation is again not gonna cut on an open forum, especially from a member whose only been on here for a month. I can say that I had a "private" conversation as well to make a point.

Example, not apples to apples but still...Im a Car guy, I can say...hey I heard GM is gonna put the LT2 in the 7th gen Camaro...I have inside knowledge because that's what someone at GM said...and trust me, this arguement is happening right now over in those forums. I have also done research on binning to see if this actually happens and have found nothing. I dont pretend to know the inner workings of LG Oled manufacturing but unless you actually are in the know or work for them, I wouldn't recommend passing your argument as facts.

I've owned every gen oled since 2015, and have not seen any indication of any form of binning, this is an argument for those who wanna justify their purchase. If I knew that their was binning, along with plenty of other members, we would have known by now and stopped purchasing the C series, which btw is the most popular model since 2017. I would be one of the first to jump on the I want the best panel available...but yet to see anything to prove the lottery doesnt happen on the so called "A" panels.

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post #12 of 65 Old 10-30-2019, 12:41 AM
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Buying 1 model every year since 2015 does not prove anything to this extent. Do your homework. Inspect a randomly selected sample size of 10-15 W's, and the same with C's. Run uniformity tests tally the results and your doubts will get cleared. Or ask a calibrator in your area who has calibrated multiple W's and C's of any given year across different households.
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post #13 of 65 Old 10-30-2019, 12:48 AM
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^are you a professional calibrator? What homework do I need to do...please please enlighten me. Have you inspected 10-15 w's vs 10-15 C panels??? Becuase if you have please show us the results. Dont try to prove this point without having some solid footing...such as something to back up your claim. Here's a thought...how many C panels are sold compared to the W...again if I knew that the W was going to have the "A" panel... I would have paid for it...unfortunately that's not the case. You are also forgetting about one thing the W series is a niche product for a select group...also not everyone can set that tv up in their viewing environment. LGD has a problem with the manufacturing process unfortunately, this is nothing new and why the Lottery is real...its not something that is relegated to "lower" end panels.
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post #14 of 65 Old 10-30-2019, 01:06 AM
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I suggested to contact your local calibrator (not that I am a calibrator) or calibrators on this forum as they are aware about it, it's commonplace for them to come across multiple panels to calibrate every year to form the conclusion. I know the calibrators in my area country are aware of binning on flagship models. Did Vincent Teoh and some other publications not remark that with the panasonic GZ2000, you get a more uniform panel? And apart from it, I have it from LG's marketing representative of my country's division (like you have LG Electronics Usa) that binning on W series exists , as well as flagship oleds from other brands (sony, philips, panasonic), so I have no doubts on it.

I don't see the need to try and convince you, since you carry a certain set of beliefs and want to live with them. It's fine.
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^its not about convincing, theirs just nothing concrete out their to support your position. To say higher end models dont suffer from panel lottery or to the same extent as lower models I think is irresponsible, since its not your money. If you trust what those representatives said to you in your country that's fine, but that is absolutely not good enough, the proof is in the pudding...I hate to say it. You do bring up excellent points, but these arguments have been said before...year after year. The GZ2000 has not been immune to uniformity issues for example, a member here unfortunately went through two of them, I believe from tinting issues. The differences you see in Panasonic, Sony, LG Oled have more to do with Processing than anything else.

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post #16 of 65 Old 10-30-2019, 02:18 AM - Thread Starter
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oh lord, what have i started lol. on a different subject. i'm considering buying this BDI TV Stand in Walnut for my 77 inch

https://www.modernessentials.com/BDI...medium=display

but looking for a reputable site to buy it from. BB has it but not in Walnut. modernessentials seems to be the cheapest but i read some not so great stuff about them. anyone buy a BDI Cabinet on here and from where?

As for what I will end up buying still on the fence but I'm leaning towards Sony since I already own 2 LG's, but that could change the longer i wait :-)
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post #17 of 65 Old 10-30-2019, 03:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akadennis View Post
Was looking for a thread comparing these 2 and only found A8G or C9, so here goes. I see the A9G is the lowest price it's been, same as what the C9 was a few weeks ago. It's actually cheaper than the C9 as of today, I believe this is the first time I see a Sony A9G be at the same price or lower than the LG OLED (77 inch version). I really want to get one of these 77 inch models but have been holding out due to price and not having a large enough TV stand to accommodate. I'm mainly interested in picture quality, not a gamer here so that's not important to me. Are these both similar when it comes to uniformity (100% white and 5% Black) or is one better than the other. Are there any owners out there who own both?
I own both A9F (predecessor to A9G) and E9. Both are very similar, but here are some differences:

1. E9 does better Dolby Vision
2. E9 has better shadow details for SDR and DV
3. A9F better shadow details in HDR content
4. With right settings motion is similar
5. E9 is brighter, but in HDR Sony has amazing highlights due to wonderful tone mapping. Yet to test 4k Blu ray on LG.
6. Upscaling is similar. 1080p content looks amazing on both. Lower resolution looks equally bad on both.
7. A9F has much smoother noise reduction and gradation handling. Occasionally I see more banding on LG lower resolution content despite smooth gradation turned on.
8. E9 has more features vs. A9F
9. Out of box requires less tweaking on Sony, I did change settings. Required more effort on LG.

I don't have calibrator in my area, but with calibration the gap is even closer.
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post #18 of 65 Old 10-30-2019, 04:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New_to_4K View Post
I own both A9F (predecessor to A9G) and E9. Both are very similar, but here are some differences:

1. E9 does better Dolby Vision
2. E9 has better shadow details for SDR and DV
3. A9F better shadow details in HDR content
4. With right settings motion is similar
5. E9 is brighter, but in HDR Sony has amazing highlights due to wonderful tone mapping. Yet to test 4k Blu ray on LG.
6. Upscaling is similar. 1080p content looks amazing on both. Lower resolution looks equally bad on both.
7. A9F has much smoother noise reduction and gradation handling. Occasionally I see more banding on LG lower resolution content despite smooth gradation turned on.
8. E9 has more features vs. A9F
9. Out of box requires less tweaking on Sony, I did change settings. Required more effort on LG.

I don't have calibrator in my area, but with calibration the gap is even closer.
thank you for your feedback. curious, what motion settings are you using for the E9?

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post #19 of 65 Old 10-30-2019, 08:54 AM
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The LG is slightly more future-proof since it supports full HDMI 2.1 specification. Members have covered other feature differences very well.

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post #20 of 65 Old 10-30-2019, 09:00 AM
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Cam, this is (at least) the 2nd thread where you have argued against the concept of panel binning/sorting (or whatever you want to call it) by LG. Here are the facts.
1. A well respected, trusted calibrator who frequents this forum has clearly stated that he has inside information, and that panel binning by LG does occur, with the best panels in the US going to the higher end models of LG and Sony.
2. Another well respected calibrator has supported that concept based on seeing/calibrating HUNDREDS of displays (a much larger sample size than you or I have seen).
3. Now Rysa has stated he has heard the same information from an LG source, confirming #1 and #2 above.
4. Neither you nor I are in any position to know whether LG does or does not do this.

Based on these reputable sources, I have no reason to doubt that LG does in fact do this. That does not mean that every LG E9 or Sony A9G will have a perfect panel, or that every C9 will have a bad panel. And you are correct that the C9 and E9 and W9 have the same panel and the same processor, and therefore should have the same PQ. But IMO what this means is that the panel lottery is somewhat skewed, and you have a higher chance of uniformity issues with a C9 than with an E9.
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post #21 of 65 Old 10-30-2019, 09:03 AM
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The LG is slightly more future-proof since it supports full HDMI 2.1 specification.
True, but most believe that 2.1 is only important for gaming. If you don't game, it's likely irrelevant.
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post #22 of 65 Old 10-30-2019, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by New_to_4K View Post
I own both A9F (predecessor to A9G) and E9. Both are very similar, but here are some differences:

1. E9 does better Dolby Vision
2. E9 has better shadow details for SDR and DV
3. A9F better shadow details in HDR content
4. With right settings motion is similar
5. E9 is brighter, but in HDR Sony has amazing highlights due to wonderful tone mapping. Yet to test 4k Blu ray on LG.
6. Upscaling is similar. 1080p content looks amazing on both. Lower resolution looks equally bad on both.
7. A9F has much smoother noise reduction and gradation handling. Occasionally I see more banding on LG lower resolution content despite smooth gradation turned on.
8. E9 has more features vs. A9F
9. Out of box requires less tweaking on Sony, I did change settings. Required more effort on LG.

I don't have calibrator in my area, but with calibration the gap is even closer.
You are certainly entitled to your opinion, and I have no doubt that you are correct for your displays in your viewing room with your settings. And I agree that 1080p material will look great with both Sony and LG. But most would say that the Sony has slightly better upscaling and motion handling that the LG. I can tell you that with FIOS for TV broadcasts and an Oppo 205 for movies, 720p and 1080i TV broadcasts, and even 480i DVDs, look fantastic on my A9G.

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post #23 of 65 Old 10-30-2019, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillP View Post
Cam, this is (at least) the 2nd thread where you have argued against the concept of panel binning/sorting (or whatever you want to call it) by LG. Here are the facts.
1. A well respected, trusted calibrator who frequents this forum has clearly stated that he has inside information, and that panel binning by LG does occur, with the best panels in the US going to the higher end models of LG and Sony.
2. Another well respected calibrator has supported that concept based on seeing/calibrating HUNDREDS of displays (a much larger sample size than you or I have seen).
3. Now Rysa has stated he has heard the same information from an LG source, confirming #1 and #2 above.
4. Neither you nor I are in any position to know whether LG does or does not do this.

Based on these reputable sources, I have no reason to doubt that LG does in fact do this.

Well, it makes sense to me that they would do it. I mean, why wouldn't they? But people have gotten near perfect C9 screens, right? And some of the higher ends from LG and Sony have had significant flaws, right? Where the buyer had to exchange for another? This would suggest that maybe they aren't doing it.


If they are doing it, they have chosen not to disclose it to the public for one reason or another.
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post #24 of 65 Old 10-30-2019, 09:31 AM
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Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post
Well, it makes sense to me that they would do it. I mean, why wouldn't they? But people have gotten near perfect C9 screens, right? And some of the higher ends from LG and Sony have had significant flaws, right? Where the buyer had to exchange for another? This would suggest that maybe they aren't doing it.


If they are doing it, they have chosen not to disclose it to the public for one reason or another.
Well, one of the calibrators I cited has stated he has not had to send back any of the A9G's he has calibrated. As I clearly stated (but you didn't include when quoting me), there is no guarantee that the higher end models will be perfect, and yes, most C9's will be good. But if panel binning occurs, it simply means that the panel lottery is slightly skewed, and comes down to the odds being not quite equal between the higher end and lower end models. But enough about this. As long as LG remains silent about it (and I doubt they would ever admit it, or risk law suits), none of us can provide proof either way.

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post #25 of 65 Old 10-30-2019, 09:42 AM
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But if panel binning occurs, it simply means that the panel lottery is slightly skewed, and comes down to the odds being not quite equal between the higher end and lower end models.

This doesn't make sense to me. Either they are significantly skewed or they're not skewed at all. It makes no sense to slightly skew panel binning.


BTW, Pioneer did this publically with the Pioneer KURO and Pioneer Elite KUROs. The best manufactured panels were said by Pioneer to go to the Elite models. So I don't think there is an issue legally. If LG is doing it, they've just decided not to make it public.
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Originally Posted by RWetmore View Post
This doesn't make sense to me. Either they are significantly skewed or they're not skewed at all. It makes no sense to slightly skew panel binning.
Sorry, I should not have used the word "slightly" since none of us know the exact odds of getting a good panel with any of the models. But I would bet that if LG sees a really awful, unacceptable panel, it wouldn't go into any display. And I would also bet that most panels will be good across all models, which is why I doubt the skewing would be huge (LG loses if lots and lots of displays end up getting returned). Again, if panel binning is happening (and I believe it is, based on reputable sources), it simply affects the odds in the panel lottery. This all started with a simple statement by Rysa that if you are buying from a source with a "no return" policy, you should be aware that your odds in the panel lottery may be affected by the model you buy due to possible panel binning. I would agree. If some disagree, I really don't care - it's their money and their risk.

Sony A9G, Oppo 205, Parasound JC2, Parasound A21, Sonus Faber Olympica IIIs
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post #27 of 65 Old 10-30-2019, 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted by BillP View Post
But I would bet that if LG sees a really awful, unacceptable panel, it wouldn't go into any display.

Well -- yes, this is a given. The question is are there grades of acceptability that are put into displays. Like A, B, and C, where a C grade panel has significant flaws, but is just barely acceptable and an A panel has very few flaws, etc. If they are binning as claimed, something like this would be happening.
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post #28 of 65 Old 10-30-2019, 10:24 AM
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Of course there are other ways to ensure you end up with a good panel. The simplest is to buy from a place with an excellent return policy. Another way, which is what I did, is to buy from a place such as Value Electronics that will (at an additional cost) calibrate your new display after putting 100+ hours on it (with a QC check to ensure a good panel). For me, the extra cost was worth it for 1) peace of mind, and 2) a beautifully calibrated display.

Sony A9G, Oppo 205, Parasound JC2, Parasound A21, Sonus Faber Olympica IIIs

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post #29 of 65 Old 10-30-2019, 10:34 AM
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I am thinking of switching my LG out for the Sony 77.... I like the LG but the Sony motion is better, hands down. I don't game on my TV.
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post #30 of 65 Old 10-30-2019, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by BillP View Post
Cam, this is (at least) the 2nd thread where you have argued against the concept of panel binning/sorting (or whatever you want to call it) by LG. Here are the facts.
1. A well respected, trusted calibrator who frequents this forum has clearly stated that he has inside information, and that panel binning by LG does occur, with the best panels in the US going to the higher end models of LG and Sony.
2. Another well respected calibrator has supported that concept based on seeing/calibrating HUNDREDS of displays (a much larger sample size than you or I have seen).
3. Now Rysa has stated he has heard the same information from an LG source, confirming #1 and #2 above.
4. Neither you nor I are in any position to know whether LG does or does not do this.

Based on these reputable sources, I have no reason to doubt that LG does in fact do this. That does not mean that every LG E9 or Sony A9G will have a perfect panel, or that every C9 will have a bad panel. And you are correct that the C9 and E9 and W9 have the same panel and the same processor, and therefore should have the same PQ. But IMO what this means is that the panel lottery is somewhat skewed, and you have a higher chance of uniformity issues with a C9 than with an E9.
Ok so just that we are clear. Topics cross pollinate threads all the time, so my response here is nothing out of the ordinary.

1. I know who I went back and forth with, it was Jrref. It's ok to disagree with these guys, doesnt make me wrong...In fact I wasn't the only member who disagreed with him, so do a search over in the C9 thread to look over that whole discussion.

2. You say another member has done thousands and supports that claim...who is it, and where is the data? How many C series sets are calibrated vs the others...if all things remain even then yes I can see the argument.

3. If you want to believe what Rhys says, that's fine I have absolutely no problem with that, however, do you know that member personally, not trying to be rude, but your putting a lot of stock in saying he confirmed what other calibrators have said...what evidence other than I heard it from someone else. If hearing it is all you need in this circumstance then that's where you and I differ.

4. I'm repeating here exactly what you said, neither you nor I know exactly what LG does, and I never pretended to.

5. I have nothing but respect for the professionals calibrators on here, however they all have their own personal bias towards certain brands...in fact one of those respected calibrators had some serious issues with the LG winning the Euro shootout...again you can search this.

If you want to believe that your A9G has a binned panel, then I'm happy for you, but their is nothing out their saying 100% certain that it is. What I find telling is, why are only a few on AVS privy to this inside information and major review sites not? These companies are in the business of making money, in the past it's been also mentioned that these binned panels are "brighter" why not milk this and make money out it? Has the A9G consistently measured higher brightness than the C9? Does the A9G have the same panel as the W? How do they even do this???

I have not been coy about this, if I'm proven wrong, then I'll eat crow. Folks on here throw words around like "facts" but in reality what we aee here is simply anecdotal, that's a fact. Saying I heard from so and so to me isnt enough, becuase in the end I dont trust people with my money like that, and neither should other folks imo.

I want to believe that panels are pre selected for higher end models, but unless we have some solid proof, which WE dont btw...them I remain skeptical.
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Last edited by Cam1977; 10-30-2019 at 01:23 PM.
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