My plasma died Would an OLED be best for black and white films - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 13 Old 11-15-2019, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
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My plasma died Would an OLED be best for black and white films

I had the Samsung PN50C8000 plasma.

I mostly only watch black and white films and reruns. I have about a 1,000 to spend.

Thank you
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post #2 of 13 Old 11-15-2019, 05:28 PM
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Coming from a plasma, OLED is the only way to go (best black levels and contrast). But they are more expensive than LCDs. The least expensive one in the US is the 55" B9, which you can find for close to your budget. Or you might be able to find an open-box B8 (last year's model).

Sony A9G, Oppo 205, Parasound JC2, Parasound A21, Sonus Faber Olympica IIIs
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post #3 of 13 Old 11-16-2019, 07:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you Billp.

I did come across this model (B8) but was hesitant because I heard so many horror stories of vertical gray bands.

Do you know if this is model specific or a fluke, or dependent on manufacture date or location?

Thank you
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post #4 of 13 Old 11-16-2019, 07:36 AM
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All 4K WOLED suffer from vertical banding at very low light levels. There's no consistent reports on which is better or worse.

This is a known problem, and a problem 99% of the viewers never become aware of. There is virtually no modern content where this banding can be seen. They can be named specifically: the helicopter scene in Arrival, and a few in Marco Polo.

For monochrome content, this may be a far greater concern. The banding has only ever been perceived on dark grays, not on dark colors.

2K WOLED do not suffer from vertical banding to the same extent. However, the only 2K models are seriously outdated. The latest is the A7, specifically 55EG9A7, which is nothing more than a renamed older model, as evidenced by its older version OS.

For black and white films, and under $1k, you can also consider used TVs. You will easily get a 55" and maybe have a chance to find a 65" for under $1,000. OLED TVs can be expected to have longer effective lifespans than CRT or LCD ones, as long as there's no burn-in. Since real-life burn-in always happens on the red subpixel first, black and white content will neither be affected by it nor cause it.

However, a lot of people cling to their purchase price despite new models costing less in a box with warranty, so most second-hand offers are not a deal at all. Just some that are.

Last edited by AnalogHD; 11-17-2019 at 01:08 PM.
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post #5 of 13 Old 11-16-2019, 08:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkAnderson View Post
I had the Samsung PN50C8000 plasma.

I mostly only watch black and white films and reruns. I have about a 1,000 to spend.

Thank you
Coming from a LG B7A, I think the overall picture(shadow detail + black level) is better
on my Hisense 65H9F with BW movies.
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post #6 of 13 Old 11-16-2019, 02:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you, Ejwiggman and AnalogHD

You both brought up good points and suggestions.

If I go used, I will look for another plasma. I do prefer new though.

I will spend over a grand if I have to.

So, according to AnalogHD monochrome will suck, or at least be sub par to my plasma

Ejwiggman thinks a straight up LED is better then the B7. I do not see how! an OLED can shut off each diode and an LED can not.

Maybe I should stay with my broken plasma with 50 horizontal black lines. (just kidding of course) I did change the boards in it but of no avail.
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post #7 of 13 Old 11-16-2019, 08:49 PM - Thread Starter
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How about the Samsung Q70. Would this be a better choice for monochrome viewing. Can anyone tell me how this or the LG would compare to my plasma?

Thank you
again
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post #8 of 13 Old 11-17-2019, 05:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MarkAnderson View Post
If I go used, I will look for another plasma. I do prefer new though.
I will spend over a grand if I have to.
So, according to AnalogHD monochrome will suck, or at least be sub par to my plasma
I wouldn't say "suck".

I'm far from a black and white enthusiast, but I've watched a few of the top movies such as The Phantom Carriage (a must-see among the others), Metropolis, Nosferatu, Citizen Kane, The Seventh Seal, and Le Dernier Combat (yeah, I know, not a "real" one; don't laugh, I was curious) on my 65C9.

In none of them was the dark-gray banding an issue or even visible. It's more that it can be visible in black and white movies, not that it often is. To be honest, the celluloid film used in old movies produces way more banding than OLED at their worst (that infamous Arrival scene).

Still, the benefits of OLED (as compared to CRT and Plasma - versus LCD there's no contest!) for black and white are limited. Among emissive displays, OLED TVs are blindingly bright, enough to watch most movies in daylight... but I can't imagine watching a black and white film in anything but total darkness. The color of the real world is a total immersion breaker. And in the dark, you won't be using the OLED's entire range of brightness.

LCD (LED, QLED) TVs are completely unfit for your purposes.

Black and white movies are dominated by black. Not all scans and not all edits will bring that black to true zero, especially for pre-1920 movies, but many will. I mostly watch Criterion releases (like I said, I'm not a dedicated enthusiast - my understanding is they only do the top 1% most popular movies) and they do. When you don't have a lot of colors, the quality of black becomes really important. What little light a black and white movie offers looks that much better when it's set against a perfect black background.

In color movies it's just the dark scenes where the black levels matter. In black and white it's almost everything. And since almost none of these movies are 16:9, you'll always have vertical or horizontal bars, so it's really everything.
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Last edited by AnalogHD; 11-17-2019 at 01:07 PM.
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post #9 of 13 Old 11-17-2019, 07:08 AM
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I've used a Samsung KS8000/60" and currently a Sony 65X950G.
I love old B&W movies and have a pretty decent collection...William Powell, Cary Grant, Freddie Bartholomew, Basil Rathbone, Humphrey Bogart, etc.
They all look great...within reason...on both these TV's.
I especially love the Sony.
I've not experienced banding, etc. but as with all old films you have to accept the film quality of the time and the remix, if one was done. I find "Criterion" to do a good job with old BW films but the cost is up there.

I'd have expected an Oled to be awesome for old BW films considering the pure black but I've not had the opportunity to watch a movie on an Oled.

I wonder if Best Buy would allow you to plug in a usb flash drive with a copy of an old BW movie into any of their TV's to check out the quality? Perhaps on a slow day would have the best chance.
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post #10 of 13 Old 11-17-2019, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kai Winters View Post
I'd have expected an Oled to be awesome for old BW films considering the pure black but I've not had the opportunity to watch a movie on an Oled.
It is awesome. The difference vs imperfect-black tech such as PDP and FALD is considerable.

I've re-watched some of the films I've watched on plasma or worse before, and they gained some much-needed visual impact on an OLED. Color movies always have something in the background, even in the night, but classic black and white ones tend to go for contrast against pure black instead. It works on a film projector and it works on an OLED, but it doesn't on a LCD. High-end plasma is in between, it kinda works there, but that gray haze still takes away from the movie.

At least as far as Criterion releases go, because they do bring the black down to true black. With a film scan that hasn't been correctly color processed, the difference might be lessened.

I've never used the entire brightness capability of the C9 on black and white films, though. Half of it is already too much. A lesser model like the B7, C7, B8, etc. will do fine for the job.
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post #11 of 13 Old 11-17-2019, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnalogHD View Post
All 4K WOLED suffer from vertical banding at very low light levels. There's no consistent reports on which is better or worse.

This is a known problem, and a problem 99% of the viewers never become aware of. There is virtually no modern content where this banding can be seen. They can be named specifically: the helicopter scene in Arrival, and a few in Marco Polo.

For monochrome content, this may be a far greater concern. The banding has only ever been perceived on dark grays, not on dark colors.

2K WOLED do not suffer from vertical banding. However, the only 2K models are seriously outdated. The latest is the A7, specifically 55EG9A7, which is nothing more than a renamed older model, as evidenced by its older version OS.

For black and white films, and under $1k, you can also consider used TVs. You will easily get a 55" and maybe have a chance to find a 65" for under $1,000. OLED TVs can be expected to have longer effective lifespans than CRT or LCD ones, as long as there's no burn-in. Since real-life burn-in always happens on the red subpixel first, black and white content will neither be affected by it nor cause it.

However, a lot of people cling to their purchase price despite new models costing less in a box with warranty, so most second-hand offers are not a deal at all. Just some that are.
I don't think this is totally accurate. While it is true that the 1080p models do not suffer from vertical banding to nearly the extent of the 4k models, my old EG9100 definitely had some, as did my EC9300 I sold to replace it with.

I distinctly recall a significant vertical band that was lighter (somewhere left of the center of the screen) that was readily apparent on the old Netflix background (close to a solid grey background, very low quality).
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post #12 of 13 Old 11-17-2019, 04:28 PM
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Thank you, Ejwiggman and AnalogHD

You both brought up good points and suggestions.

If I go used, I will look for another plasma. I do prefer new though.

I will spend over a grand if I have to.

So, according to AnalogHD monochrome will suck, or at least be sub par to my plasma

Ejwiggman thinks a straight up LED is better then the B7. I do not see how! an OLED can shut off each diode and an LED can not.

Maybe I should stay with my broken plasma with 50 horizontal black lines. (just kidding of course) I did change the boards in it but of no avail.
I have a 65 C8 and watch old Westerns (b&w) all of the time and the pq is exceptional considering the source, and I've never seen vertical banding to the point that it affected pq.
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Last edited by Otto Pylot; 11-17-2019 at 04:39 PM.
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post #13 of 13 Old 11-19-2019, 02:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Okay, After doing my research and with the help of all the knowledgeable members I decided on a 55" B8. I suppose this means the 2018 version.

Does anyone believe there is a reason to get the 2019 or 2020 version.

I found the B8 for 1,097 on Amazon.

Thank you
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