Analysis Paralysis - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 11 Old 11-16-2019, 11:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Analysis Paralysis

I am planning to upgrade my Samsung PN58B650 (plasma) tv to something in the 4k UHD line. There is nothing wrong with the current tv, no burn in, great picture, but I want a bigger screen, preferably something in the 75" range as I don't think a 65" would be that much of a difference. My tv usage is 80% DirecTV content (sports, tv shows), 10% DVD / Bluray movies, 10% Netflix or other streaming services. I thought I had decided on the Sony XBR75X900F as the price at BB is currently budget friendly. It appears this TV is not future proof, no HDMI 2.1 interface, no HDCP 2.3 support. If you want these options you have to look at the top of the line products in the Sony A9G (OLED) or Z9G (LCD). When you start looking at TVs in this price range the LG OLED77C9PUB or OLED65C9PUA come into play. These appear to be future proof but from what I have read are not as good as the Sony in handling upconverting and motion. Is Sony that much better handling upconverting and motion over all other TVs? When I look at these TVs in the store they all look great. I didn't consider another Samsung as they don't support Dolby Vision. I'm not sure who will win the format war but my thought on this was Sony & LG could support HDR10+ with a software upgrade, whereas Dolby Vision on a Samsung would require a hardware upgrade. Am I missing something? My budget started at 2000K but if I need to spend 5000K I would give it serious thought. It's a real pain to move out the existing TV and replace it with something larger so I only want to do it once...…. Any feedback is appreciated.
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post #2 of 11 Old 11-16-2019, 12:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bvk_houtx View Post
I am planning to upgrade my Samsung PN58B650 (plasma) tv to something in the 4k UHD line. There is nothing wrong with the current tv, no burn in, great picture, but I want a bigger screen, preferably something in the 75" range as I don't think a 65" would be that much of a difference. My tv usage is 80% DirecTV content (sports, tv shows), 10% DVD / Bluray movies, 10% Netflix or other streaming services. I thought I had decided on the Sony XBR75X900F as the price at BB is currently budget friendly. It appears this TV is not future proof, no HDMI 2.1 interface, no HDCP 2.3 support. If you want these options you have to look at the top of the line products in the Sony A9G (OLED) or Z9G (LCD). When you start looking at TVs in this price range the LG OLED77C9PUB or OLED65C9PUA come into play. These appear to be future proof but from what I have read are not as good as the Sony in handling upconverting and motion. Is Sony that much better handling upconverting and motion over all other TVs? When I look at these TVs in the store they all look great. I didn't consider another Samsung as they don't support Dolby Vision. I'm not sure who will win the format war but my thought on this was Sony & LG could support HDR10+ with a software upgrade, whereas Dolby Vision on a Samsung would require a hardware upgrade. Am I missing something? My budget started at 2000K but if I need to spend 5000K I would give it serious thought. It's a real pain to move out the existing TV and replace it with something larger so I only want to do it once...…. Any feedback is appreciated.
I will preface by saying that I have been in the TV industry for roughly 16 years now. I personally have a Samsung 75Q80R an LG 65E7P, and an LG 65W7P.



My personal and professional opinion would be to consider a 75Q80R from Samsung. I know it wasn't even on your list but let me tell you... 80% of the people I sell this model to were coming in off of an OLED consideration. Sony has a superb OLED but you're going to pay a Sony premium over Sam or LG because they aren't manufacturing those panels. Brightness is king for sports, and you said 80% of your viewing is DirecTV. If you said 80% was 4k streaming or movies, then you might fall into that "critical viewer" category and may appreciate an OLED over a QLED. For what you are getting @ 2299 its exceptionally hard to beat the overall performance. The Samsung supports 2.1 features and I wouldn't work about HDCP 2.3 unless you want an 8K panel because most of the benefits lie in that future category.


Don't worry about DV vs. HDR10+ every single streaming service offers both formats for every movie and show out there so its not like you will be "road-blocked" from watching content. "Purists" on here will tell me I'm wrong and similar customers will challenge me on this in the showroom.. but you know what? Most of then don't even have the $$$ to spend on the high tier stuff anyways so why does it matter? lol






I love my OLEDs but they are not good if you want raw light output power. Watching a sporting event @ 2000 nits/lumens on my QLED crushes my appreciation of the same content on my OLEDs.

- Mark
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post #3 of 11 Old 11-16-2019, 02:55 PM
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Most coming from plasmas prefer OLEDs over LCDs (and QLED is just an LCD). If you like to watch movies in the dark, OLED is the best way to go. If you mainly watch during the day and cannot control ambient light, then sure, LCD. The LG C9 is an excellent OLED and supports HDMI 2.1. But that is only important for gaming. Yes, the Sony A9G does upconvert and handle motion better than LG, but LG has narrowed the gap so the difference is less than previous years. IMO, DV is going to win over HDR 10+ since (in the US) only Samsung is supporting HDR 10+. If LG and Sony continue to support DV and ignore HDR 10+, I just don't see how it will survive. And I don't think Netflix streaming supports HDR 10+, just HDR and DV.
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post #4 of 11 Old 11-16-2019, 11:17 PM
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Nothing is future proof, I have the Sony 900F, as far as I'm concerned it will be my set for the next 5 years or so, I have no desire or the need to upgrade every 2 years to get the newest crap.
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post #5 of 11 Old 11-17-2019, 04:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xMarkFitzGeraldx View Post
I will preface by saying that I have been in the TV industry for roughly 16 years now.
Do you model light propagation through the spreader and optimize the arrangements of LED on the side-lit backlight strips so that the next model can have one LED less? Draft the thread holes for the screws holding the back cover in a way that avoids unnecessary PCB perforations? Calculate the optimal ordering frequency for resupplying the main distribution warehouse in the tri-state area?

Other than projecting an air of authority, this statement added literally nothing to your answer.
I wouldn't normally pay any attention to it, everyone is entitled to a boast now and then, if it wasn't for the following:

Quote:
Originally Posted by xMarkFitzGeraldx View Post
Don't worry about DV vs. HDR10+ every single streaming service offers both formats for every movie and show out there so its not like you will be "road-blocked" from watching content. "Purists" on here will tell me I'm wrong and similar customers will challenge me on this in the showroom.. but you know what? Most of then don't even have the $$$ to spend on the high tier stuff anyways so why does it matter? lol
lol indeed.

Literally zero services offer HDR10+.
There's DV and there's the fallback of HDR10.

In effect, HDR10+ does not exist. It's a Samsung invention with zero content. It's HD-DVD - pretend competition where none was called for.

Samsung is talking about launching their own paid streaming service in Korea that will offer HDR10+, but it's not going to offer any content other services don't. Or as much content. Or features. Or anything else. And you better learn Korean if you want to partake in this quest to validate HDR10+ as something more than a stillbirth.
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post #6 of 11 Old 11-17-2019, 05:43 AM
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Originally Posted by BillP View Post
Most coming from plasmas prefer OLEDs over LCDs (and QLED is just an LCD). If you like to watch movies in the dark, OLED is the best way to go. If you mainly watch during the day and cannot control ambient light, then sure, LCD. The LG C9 is an excellent OLED and supports HDMI 2.1. But that is only important for gaming. Yes, the Sony A9G does upconvert and handle motion better than LG, but LG has narrowed the gap so the difference is less than previous years. IMO, DV is going to win over HDR 10+ since (in the US) only Samsung is supporting HDR 10+. If LG and Sony continue to support DV and ignore HDR 10+, I just don't see how it will survive. And I don't think Netflix streaming supports HDR 10+, just HDR and DV.
Yep - once you've become used to an emmissive display its hard to get away from them. I tried way back when I wanted to upgrade my 50" Pioneer KURO plasma. I tried multiple LCDs and everyone of them failed to deliver what I needed - contrast & proper black levels. Viewing angles were lousy too. Sure, they were brighter than my KURO in certain conditions but how bright do TVs have to really get? Is it accurate to be gaudy-bright? Not sure if it is. I dont think so. For dark room viewing, like most movies, the OLED wins and it isnt even close.

And, its not like OLEDs arent bright! C'mon, we watch sports all the time and its vibrant, bright, colorful and of course the best blacks make the image pop and seem 3D. Cant get that on an LCD based TV. As for ambient light, well, on a bright sunny day I suppose an LCD will cut through the ambient light better and have less reflection. Great. But how common is it to watch TV with the sun blaring on the screen? Why bother? Here in upstate, NY if I get sun I go outside and enjoy it. Seriously though - if you're watching content you care about you'll make the room more TV friendly anyways. You'll lower the blinds and do what you can to make it easier to see.

Everyone has a different use case so I get that and the newest LCDs have improved over the ones I tried several years ago. But, anyone coming from a plasma really ought to seriously consider an OLED.

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post #7 of 11 Old 11-17-2019, 07:45 AM
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Fully agree. My OLED is brighter than the Panny plasma it replaced. I am currently at my son's house babysitting my grandkids. He has a Vizio LCD. And I can tell you it is unwatchable during the day for dark scenes (opposite large picture windows that have no shades). So much for the major benefit of LCDs.

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post #8 of 11 Old 11-17-2019, 08:04 AM
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I was a plasma user for 10 years and never had any burn in either. And my main Panasonic has over 30,000 hours on it and it still used in my summer beach house. IMO, OLED is as dissimilar from plasma as LCD. Both are sample and hold displays with the same motion issues. In some ways, OLED motion is worse due to the almost instantaneous response time causing stutter. For normal use in a bright family room, go with the FALD LCD of your choice. For a basement dedicated theater room, go with an OLED hands down. Just don't watch CNN or stock market channels on it all day.
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post #9 of 11 Old 11-21-2019, 08:25 AM - Thread Starter
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I would like to thank everyone for their input. I purchased a Sony 65" A8G yesterday. I was able to unbox and connect everything and watch a few things, NBA basketball game, a couple of sit-coms, and some news. The picture out of the box is pretty awesome. I will review the settings on www.rtings.com and use that as a starting point and then see if / what the Spears & Munsil UHD has me tweak. I can't wait to see what a 4k UHD movie looks like.
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post #10 of 11 Old 11-21-2019, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by bvk_houtx View Post
I would like to thank everyone for their input. I purchased a Sony 65" A8G yesterday. I was able to unbox and connect everything and watch a few things, NBA basketball game, a couple of sit-coms, and some news. The picture out of the box is pretty awesome. I will review the settings on www.rtings.com and use that as a starting point and then see if / what the Spears & Munsil UHD has me tweak. I can't wait to see what a 4k UHD movie looks like.
i think you will love it. im' 3 weeks into ownership and i was gonna add my 2 cents as a total newbie who doesnt even understand half the terms on this forum, nor do i think i ever want to because the analysis could kill me. nonetheless my observations are valid coming from the 65 samsung plasma that died on me.

i stressed about upconverting and do i really need 4k etc. my only source is OTA and things i download from the internet. when i got the tv home and watched something as simple as old SD copies of star trek voyager, the increase in color and general good looking pic was very noticeable. i was shocked. another HD series ive been watching for months looked brighter, more colorful and just wowed me. It made me realize that i have a new tv! obviously i just had to sit there and watch silly 4k youtube vids and i was in awe in that regard...of course.

i turned on football and noticed a tiny bit of motion issues but thats because i was looking for them. after doing the rting setup, ive never seen another flaw again in any source. one nuance that is probably a result of my settings is that when i watched the last jedi movie 4k, it was way too dark. i had to set it on vivid. the only light in the room was my 50 watt table lamp but all the black outfits and space were all running together. vivid cured that. so now when i watch 4k movies i just crank to vivid and i'm happy.

im also not an audiophile but ive been very pleased with my vizio 299 dollar 5.1 system from best buy. i know thru optical it's not considered great audio but to me it is. scares the blank out of me sometimes when something comes from the rear speakers i'm not expecting. so my guess is for a huge portion of America, this tv and setup would be great and i wholeheartedly recommend it unless u have a specific need for a more expensive setup. never had a sony before but i'm ok with it now
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post #11 of 11 Old 11-22-2019, 09:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xMarkFitzGeraldx View Post
I will preface by saying that I have been in the TV industry for roughly 16 years now. I personally have a Samsung 75Q80R an LG 65E7P, and an LG 65W7P.



My personal and professional opinion would be to consider a 75Q80R from Samsung. I know it wasn't even on your list but let me tell you... 80% of the people I sell this model to were coming in off of an OLED consideration. Sony has a superb OLED but you're going to pay a Sony premium over Sam or LG because they aren't manufacturing those panels. Brightness is king for sports, and you said 80% of your viewing is DirecTV. If you said 80% was 4k streaming or movies, then you might fall into that "critical viewer" category and may appreciate an OLED over a QLED. For what you are getting @ 2299 its exceptionally hard to beat the overall performance. The Samsung supports 2.1 features and I wouldn't work about HDCP 2.3 unless you want an 8K panel because most of the benefits lie in that future category.


Don't worry about DV vs. HDR10+ every single streaming service offers both formats for every movie and show out there so its not like you will be "road-blocked" from watching content. "Purists" on here will tell me I'm wrong and similar customers will challenge me on this in the showroom.. but you know what? Most of then don't even have the $$$ to spend on the high tier stuff anyways so why does it matter? lol






I love my OLEDs but they are not good if you want raw light output power. Watching a sporting event @ 2000 nits/lumens on my QLED crushes my appreciation of the same content on my OLEDs.
how in the hell do you people watch a tv thats bright enough to start a small fire like that ?
i just got a new oled, lg cp 55 inch, and i absolutely cant look at the screen long with the brightness jacked all the way up.
makes my eyes feel like they are fixin to catch on fire.
it has to be bad on your eys i would think.
i seriously dont understand this?
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