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post #1 of 21 Old 01-06-2020, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Rolling Up and DOWN (RX 2020)

As seen in this video. They did the engineering for rolling down (and back up) as well.

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post #2 of 21 Old 01-06-2020, 11:56 AM
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Cool as a novelty but wtf do I care about rolling my tv up once i've mounted it? I guess this is good for shipping ?
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post #3 of 21 Old 01-06-2020, 12:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Clesarie View Post
Cool as a novelty but wtf do I care about rolling my tv up once i've mounted it? I guess this is good for shipping ?
It's for when you:

1. Prefer not to see your TV when you're not watching
2. Want to see what's behind your TV when you're not watching (i.e., it's in front of a window)
3. Want the ability to change the aspect ratio of the screen (currently only 2 aspect ratios supported, not hard to imagine more than 2) so the content is 100% of the screen.
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post #4 of 21 Old 01-06-2020, 12:06 PM
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Originally Posted by stl8k View Post
As seen in this video. They did the engineering for rolling down (and back up) as well.

Yeah, now that CNET has reported the MSRP of the R65 (roll-up) is $60,000, looks like I’ll be sticking to fixed-screen TVs for the next ~decade...

Put rollable OLED in the same category as MicroLED - not for average or even Premium Consumers as far out as the eye can see...
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post #5 of 21 Old 01-06-2020, 12:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Yeah, now that CNET has reported the MSRP of the R65 (roll-up) is $60,000, looks like I’ll be sticking to fixed-screen TVs for the next ~decade...

Put rollable OLED in the same category as MicroLED - not for average or even Premium Consumers as far out as the eye can see...
Disappointing. I would've liked a 2025 77 +/- to replace the 65. But I tend to agree this is a 10+ year product at this point.

There's a saying about "everything in moderation". If only it was applied to well, you know...
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post #6 of 21 Old 01-06-2020, 12:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Clesarie View Post
Cool as a novelty but wtf do I care about rolling my tv up once i've mounted it? I guess this is good for shipping ?
The only way I’ll be able to fit an 88” TV into my space is to position it in front of the (never used) fireplace.

The big fixed black rectangle covering up the nice wood and brick fireplace when not viewing would be a showstopper and either roll-up from the hearth or roll-down from above the mantelpiece would have been a solution to this conundrum.

But for anything over 2X the price, forget about it.
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post #7 of 21 Old 01-06-2020, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogo View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Yeah, now that CNET has reported the MSRP of the R65 (roll-up) is $60,000, looks like I’️ll be sticking to fixed-screen TVs for the next ~decade...

Put rollable OLED in the same category as MicroLED - not for average or even Premium Consumers as far out as the eye can see...
Disappointing. I would've liked a 2025 77 +/- to replace the 65. But I tend to agree this is a 10+ year product at this point.
The only small hope is that LGE learned valuable lessons from the 2016 burn-in scare and want to have a few years of real-world reliability data before going whole-hog on rollable.

The underlying cost of making a screen rollable is almost certainly less than 2X (in volume, and especially for larger screen sizes like 88”) and thus truly could be OLES-TVs Ace-in-the-hole if introduced correctly.

But it’s not something LGE has to do quickly, it is something new and so by definition involves risk, and ‘going slow’ is very understandable.

Sell 100 in 2020, then adjust pricing to sell 1000 in 2021 then adjust pricing to sell 10,000 in 2022 - they can easily use pricing strategy to dip their toe in and gain confidence that the water is warm before jumping in.

So there is still a chance it is only a 5-year product and we should know once the 65RY (2021 model) gets priced...
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post #8 of 21 Old 01-06-2020, 12:21 PM
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I wonder What the failure rate (pixels, or mechanical parts)of a tv might be once rolled in and out x number of times for couple years. Maybe it’s like a garage door with manual opening lever incase it gets stuck
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post #9 of 21 Old 01-06-2020, 12:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
The only way I’ll be able to fit an 88” TV into my space is to position it in front of the (never used) fireplace.

The big fixed black rectangle covering up the nice wood and brick fireplace when not viewing would be a showstopper and either roll-up from the hearth or roll-down from above the mantelpiece would have been a solution to this conundrum.

But for anything over 2X the price, forget about it.
(haha)

Perhaps another OLED vendor like Skyworth will get it down to your "honey I deserve it" price level.
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post #10 of 21 Old 01-06-2020, 12:28 PM
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Yeah, I'm out, too.

I had a good use for this tv in a newly renovated condo. I've been waiting and willing to pay a premium, but not $60k or anywhere near that.
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post #11 of 21 Old 01-06-2020, 01:45 PM
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Lovly tv but to costly in my case.

Lg W8 65" Wall paper oled tv. Sources Oppo 203. Panasonic UB9000. Apple 4K tv. Xbox one x.
Lg E6 65" 3D oled tv... Sorce Oppo 103D
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post #12 of 21 Old 01-06-2020, 02:49 PM
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LGD will get more serious about ROLED if they ramped up the monthly production to 10000 substrates and adding more screen sizes than 65":


Quote:
LG Display will expand its OLED display capacity for rollable TVs. It has been reported that it has made internal investment decisions and started preparations. By March next year, a supplier of transparent polyimide (PI) curing equipment will be selected. Vitron and Narae Nanotech are candidates. The lead time of the PI curing equipment will reach 6 months, and the equipment will be available in September next year.

LG Display's OLED panel for TV built in Paju, Gyeonggi-do, has 70,000 8G (2.2mx 2.5m) substrates. Rollable TV OLEDs have a transparent PI forming process in OLED TVs. Transparent PI curing equipment coats and cures transparent PI varnish on glass substrates. Narae Nanotech was the first to supply 8G transparent PI curing equipment. Transparent PI Substrate Forming Process Monthly production capacity reached 1000 sheets based on 8G substrate.

LG Display plans to increase the monthly production capacity of the transparent PI forming process to 10,000 units next year. The processing time of 8th generation transparent PI curing equipment is said to be about twice that of 6th generation opaque PI curing equipment for small and medium size flexible OLED. The same production capacity requires more equipment.

Quote:
An official of LG Display Research Institute said, "TV sales price is said to be 80 million won." Probably, competitors will be mostly exhausted for reverse engineering for technical analysis. "It's our job to lower the price to the average consumer."

Quote:
Three 65-inch panels are produced on 8th generation boards. There are 3000 OLED panels for rollable TV that can be made at full operation with a monthly production capacity of 1000 sheets. Since this is an early development, the actual monthly production is likely to be very low considering yield. An official of LG Display Research Institute said, "When we first mass-produced OLED panels for TV in 2013, the yield was 3%."
(http://www.thelec.kr)


https://translate.google.de/translat...4021&sandbox=1
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post #13 of 21 Old 01-06-2020, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALMA View Post
LGD will get more serious about ROLED if they ramped up the monthly production to 10000 substrates and adding more screen sizes than 65":


Quote:
LG Display will expand its OLED display capacity for rollable TVs. It has been reported that it has made internal investment decisions and started preparations. By March next year, a supplier of transparent polyimide (PI) curing equipment will be selected. Vitron and Narae Nanotech are candidates. The lead time of the PI curing equipment will reach 6 months, and the equipment will be available in September next year.

LG Display's OLED panel for TV built in Paju, Gyeonggi-do, has 70,000 8G (2.2mx 2.5m) substrates. Rollable TV OLEDs have a transparent PI forming process in OLED TVs. Transparent PI curing equipment coats and cures transparent PI varnish on glass substrates. Narae Nanotech was the first to supply 8G transparent PI curing equipment. Transparent PI Substrate Forming Process Monthly production capacity reached 1000 sheets based on 8G substrate.

LG Display plans to increase the monthly production capacity of the transparent PI forming process to 10,000 units next year. The processing time of 8th generation transparent PI curing equipment is said to be about twice that of 6th generation opaque PI curing equipment for small and medium size flexible OLED. The same production capacity requires more equipment.

Quote:
An official of LG Display Research Institute said, "TV sales price is said to be 80 million won." Probably, competitors will be mostly exhausted for reverse engineering for technical analysis. "It's our job to lower the price to the average consumer."

Quote:
Three 65-inch panels are produced on 8th generation boards. There are 3000 OLED panels for rollable TV that can be made at full operation with a monthly production capacity of 1000 sheets. Since this is an early development, the actual monthly production is likely to be very low considering yield. An official of LG Display Research Institute said, "When we first mass-produced OLED panels for TV in 2013, the yield was 3%."
(http://www.thelec.kr)


https://translate.google.de/translat...4021&sandbox=1
Seems as though that article was dated November 20th, 2019. If so, that implies capacity of 1000 8.5G sheets per month starting in September ‘20, or 3000 raw 65” rollable panels per month.

I doubt they would crank capacity to max at 3% yield, but that would translate to 90 rollable TVs per month at 3% or 1500 per month at 50%.

So the $60,000 MSRP of the R65 is understandable once you understand LG has nothing but prototype volumes today and may have fewer than 100/month once ‘production’ starts in Q4.

But if this report is to be believed, expect prices for the R65 to plummet in 2021 - no way LG is going to sell even 500/month at $60,000 (let alone 1500/month or ultimately closer to 2500/month at typical production yields exceeding 80%).

By way of comparison, 2500 per month translates to 30,000 per year, about the volume of 77” WOLEDs LGE sold this cycle (at prices under $5000 and approaching $4000 😉.

Interesting question: which would you value more, a 77” ‘fixed’ WOLED or a 65” rolling WOLED?
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post #14 of 21 Old 01-06-2020, 03:25 PM
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Ceilings are further away from us than floors. Doesn't 65 inches seem small for a screen that rolls down from the ceiling?
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post #15 of 21 Old 01-06-2020, 03:29 PM
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It's all fun and games until the motor breaks and then your stuck with a TV you can't watch until it is fixed.
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post #16 of 21 Old 01-06-2020, 03:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by JasonHa View Post
Ceilings are further away from us than floors. Doesn't 65 inches seem small for a screen that rolls down from the ceiling?
Great point, Jason! That's why I believe the up and down rolling aren't separate products.
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post #17 of 21 Old 01-06-2020, 04:09 PM
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This continues to get the most press because of its novelty. If it was priced reasonably I'm sure a lot of gadget gurus would have bought one. But by the time this becomes affordable no one will care anymore. Relegate it to the same bin as curved TVs.

Media: LG 88" 8K OLED Z9 / Denon AVR-X8500H 7.1.4 / Oppo UDP-203 / Nvidia SHIELD (2017) / Apple TV 4K / Sony 4K FMP-X10 / Gaming PC (Threadripper 1950X / 2x GeForce GTX 1080 Ti SLI) / PlayStation 4 Pro with PS VR / PlayStation (original)
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
So the $60,000 MSRP of the R65 is understandable once you understand LG has nothing but prototype volumes today and may have fewer than 100/month once ‘production’ starts in Q4.
Actually doesn't make any sense and there is zero market besides extremely wealthy that have no clue what they are doing. You could buy a $2K 65" C9/CX, pay a professional $10K or less to install a TV raise mechanism in your floor/slab and have a totally seamless TV free room experience and save $48,000...
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post #19 of 21 Old 01-07-2020, 05:11 AM
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For this money i could buy a Wilson Audio speaker and would far prefer that because it'll have more wow factor. Tv rising from/going back into a slot does not have a wow factor to me, i dont have a window, i have a dedicated media room with no windows and the wall behind the entertainment cabinet where i'll put the tv is black. And this tv does not have a single spec better than the CX series in terms of picture quality and it actually seems it wont be supporting 120hz BFI, which the CX will (on the lg website, CX is listed to have "oled motion pro", RX is listed to have "oled motion").
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post #20 of 21 Old 01-09-2020, 08:16 PM
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I FINALLY figured out a use for roll up TVs!!!!

OK imagine you are the average guy whose wife insists how important the fireplace is when you look at buying a house- and yet you probably use it about twice a year (unless you are in a very cold place where heating by fire is cheaper). You get stuck with a fireplace (that gets used 2 days of the year) where the TV should be (that gets used 300 days a year). So you either mount it over the mantle where you have to look up like you are in the front row of cheap theater or you put the TV in the corner of the room where your wife insists it is hideous and too big...

So imagine in this photo if you either mounted the mantle (which would be a roll up TV) either a little higher or lower depending on which direction you want it to roll -


Lg could make the roll cabinet look like a wooden mantle and I bet a lot of people would actually want one in their home and pay extra for it. I think most guys would be able to convince their wife they could get a BIG TV - provided the mantle would fit. Everybody wins!
On this same topic, they could make the cabinet/mount have hidden latches to make it easy to attach to the chimney once the small brackets are installed. The cabinet could have an option of having the wiring go out a side hidden gromet in case it isn't mounted where wiring is easily hidden behind the unit.

Last edited by boe; 01-11-2020 at 12:17 PM.
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post #21 of 21 Old 01-10-2020, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by bryantc View Post
This continues to get the most press because of its novelty. If it was priced reasonably I'm sure a lot of gadget gurus would have bought one. But by the time this becomes affordable no one will care anymore. Relegate it to the same bin as curved TVs.
True. But at least I can see why anyone would want the rolling TV. I never understood why anyone would want a curved TV. They made no sense.

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