2020 LG OLED CX-GX Owner's Thread + FAQ (Posts 1-6) - No Price Talk - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 6789 Old 02-17-2020, 02:41 PM
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Qled

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Originally Posted by 8KCRT View Post
Additionally, I think the only real complaint of OLEDs are generally all the same: not bright enough.
There are many issues with all flat panel technologies, near-black performance is one real torture test for oleds you haven't mentioned, and a much bigger problem IMHO. With blacks being true black, the infinite contrast means peak brightness isn't so vital.

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If LG does nothing else but improving brightness, that alone will raise its Rec.2020 color volume, right? My understanding is that much of the increased Rec.2020 color space comes from the increased luminance available in HDR.
It won't raise volume that much because the White sub-pixel does most of the heavy lifting, so the peak brightness is just a bigger central cone towards white . This is one area where, unfortunately, Samsung's LED-backlit LCDs, branded as QLED (but not true light-emitting QLEDs), have an advantage. See https://www.avsforum.com/forum/166-l...or-volume.html
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post #62 of 6789 Old 02-18-2020, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Sorry to say if you didn't see any difference in PQ between the C8 and C9 then you won't see it with the CX. There definetly was visible improvements in most areas of PQ on the C9 but you are not seeing them so you don't need to worry.
When D-Nice looked at the C9, he noted if you are not going up in size, skip the update from C8 to C9. Does not mean their where differences but it sure means the differences are not worth the cost.

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So what's the consensus so far? Get a C9? Wait for the CX?

I already have a C7, so I'm fine with whatever. Just don't wanna buy a C9 and end up missing on some great features, but I'm struggling to see much of a difference between the 9 and X.
I would probably wait till holiday season next year since you are in no rush. Then again you will know more once some reviewers get there hands on the CX....
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post #63 of 6789 Old 02-18-2020, 02:29 PM
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Originally Posted by 8KCRT View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by jrref View Post
We won't know what the actual PQ differences will be until we get a CX next month to test.
Additionally, I think the only real complaint of OLEDs are generally all the same: not bright enough. If LG does nothing else but improving brightness, that alone will raise its Rec.2020 color volume, right? My understanding is that much of the increased Rec.2020 color space comes from the increased luminance available in HDR.
Sounds as though you have not yet owned a WOLED...

As mrtickluek pointed out, for those of us who watch in the dark, improved near-black uniformity is far more important than increased brightness.

Hopefully the 120Hz BFI on the CX delivers a significant improvement to near-black uniformity, but until LGE can approach Panasonic-like near-black uniformity and eliminates the panel lottery that they continue to have on that issue, they’ve got bigger fish to fry than chasing QLED in the (now largely passed) Brightness Wars...
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post #64 of 6789 Old 02-20-2020, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Sounds as though you have not yet owned a WOLED...

As mrtickluek pointed out, for those of us who watch in the dark, improved near-black uniformity is far more important than increased brightness.

Hopefully the 120Hz BFI on the CX delivers a significant improvement to near-black uniformity, but until LGE can approach Panasonic-like near-black uniformity and eliminates the panel lottery that they continue to have on that issue, they’ve got bigger fish to fry than chasing QLED in the (now largely passed) Brightness Wars...
I was on the C9 closeout path until last month or so when you brought up this possibility. If they make big gains in this area, it would make for stiffer competition with the upcoming consumer dual stacked LCDs in this area of performance.

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post #65 of 6789 Old 02-20-2020, 06:31 AM
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Having the last three generations of LG OLEDs in the house, near black performance on the C9 is pretty darn good and an easy to notice step up from the C8. I'm willing to say it won't be a "big" step up, there is no pending tech break through with OLED on the horizon and in its current forum. We go through this every year. BFI has its drawbacks as well - lower nits and flicker (TBD). I'm happy to be wrong. Go Hawks!
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post #66 of 6789 Old 02-20-2020, 01:08 PM
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BFI increasing uniformity perception would be enough for me to latch on. Too bad they didn't offer it in 2016/17.
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post #67 of 6789 Old 02-20-2020, 02:11 PM
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LG please take my money, already.
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post #68 of 6789 Old 02-20-2020, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by smurraybhm View Post
Having the last three generations of LG OLEDs in the house, near black performance on the C9 is pretty darn good and an easy to notice step up from the C8. I'm willing to say it won't be a "big" step up, there is no pending tech break through with OLED on the horizon and in its current forum.
You have a C9 and I don’t, so I’m not going to challenge you on that statement but would like to understand more what ‘near black performance’ you see as a big step up from your C8.

Most owner reports here on AVS suggest that the near-black streaking / graininess that has plagued LGs WOLEDs has essentially remained constant since 2016 - does your C9 deliver a plasma-like level of uniformity in a 3% field?

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We go through this every year. BFI has its drawbacks as well - lower nits and flicker (TBD). I'm happy to be wrong. Go Hawks!
Flicker at 60Hz is noticable and objectionable. Flicker at 120Hz is not noticable by all but a small fraction of viewers (which is why 120Hz BFI is such a big deal.

And ‘lower nits’ can be easily compensated for by increasing OLED Light for SDR content (which is most sports).

For HDR, you’ll have the choice of improved near-black uniformity at the cost of less bright specular highlights (perhaps best for watching dark HDR movies in a dark room) or typical non-BFI near-black uniformity with full-Brightness specular highlights (perhaps best for viewing bright HDR content or viewing any content in a bright room).
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post #69 of 6789 Old 02-22-2020, 09:03 AM
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2020 TV Shootout Evaluation Event (NY, USA)

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Originally Posted by jrref View Post
Many of us are looking to see if the LG motion and upscaling now reaches the level of the Sony with the CX. If so, it will be a significant plus for the LG given all of the features it has.

Recent online host comments about the 2020 TV Shootout Evaluation Event:

“Our June 10 - 11, 2020 TV Shootout Evaluation event where we'll be crowning the King of 4K TV and separately on day 2 the King of 8K TV and we'll be moving the two Kings butt next to each other so our panel of expert judges and presenters along with the attendees will be easily be able to analyze the picture quality differences.

We're having professional native 8K HDR content specially created for this 8K vs. 4K comparison at the 2020 TV Shootout. Stacy Spears is participating in our 2020 TV Shootout Evaluation as our key presenter and he is creating our native 8K and 4K test patterns and video content for our 8K vs. 4K comparison that will feature the best in class 8K and 4K TVs.”


.
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post #70 of 6789 Old 02-23-2020, 04:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Sounds as though you have not yet owned a WOLED...

As mrtickluek pointed out, for those of us who watch in the dark, improved near-black uniformity is far more important than increased brightness.

Hopefully the 120Hz BFI on the CX delivers a significant improvement to near-black uniformity, but until LGE can approach Panasonic-like near-black uniformity and eliminates the panel lottery that they continue to have on that issue, they’ve got bigger fish to fry than chasing QLED in the (now largely passed) Brightness Wars...

I've had two 65" C9s and have honestly never once noticed any near-black uniformity issues. Now, I am not taking long-exposure photos of slides. However I do watch in a dark room and use apps and play video games that have a flat, near-black backgrounds (e.g. Plex loading screen). Near-black uniformity is substantially better in practice than on the plasmas I have owned because image retention hasn't been an issue on the C9s.

If you say you see uniformity problems during normal use, I believe you. But you probably shouldn't assume it is something all owners care about.
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post #71 of 6789 Old 02-23-2020, 07:09 AM
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We're having professional native 8K HDR content specially created for this 8K vs. 4K comparison at the 2020 TV Shootout.
I kind of question the usefulness of this for practical use. If no 8K native content exists "in the wild"... why should it be included in a shootout that has to judge products out *this* year?
Or maybe it's just for fun and to get an idea of what we might be looking forward to in the future, in which case, why not and I would agree.

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post #72 of 6789 Old 02-23-2020, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fafrd View Post
Sounds as though you have not yet owned a WOLED...

As mrtickluek pointed out, for those of us who watch in the dark, improved near-black uniformity is far more important than increased brightness.

Hopefully the 120Hz BFI on the CX delivers a significant improvement to near-black uniformity, but until LGE can approach Panasonic-like near-black uniformity and eliminates the panel lottery that they continue to have on that issue, they’️ve got bigger fish to fry than chasing QLED in the (now largely passed) Brightness Wars...

I've had two 65" C9s and have honestly never once noticed any near-black uniformity issues. Now, I am not taking long-exposure photos of slides. However I do watch in a dark room and use apps and play video games that have a flat, near-black backgrounds (e.g. Plex loading screen). Near-black uniformity is substantially better in practice than on the plasmas I have owned because image retention hasn't been an issue on the C9s.

If you say you see uniformity problems during normal use, I believe you. But [b{you probably shouldn't assume it is something all owners care about.[/b]
Never meant to suggest near-black uniformity is a concern all WOLED owners should share.

You are only going to notice near-black streaking/DSE in the case that you:

-watch in the pitch-black (nighttime viewing with no lights on).

-are calibrated for relatively modest brightness levels (120cd/m2 peak for SDR; OLED Light under 30).

-are watching a ‘dark’ piece of content (such as a Dark Knight flick or TRON) with pans over relatively uniform dark scenes

And even when you can check all of those boxes, it is only an occassional thing - I probably only see about one or two scenes a month that make me cringe.

But the bottom line is that that occassional issue is the greatest complaint I have with my near-perfect 65C6P. And I’d much rather have those very occasional cringe-worthy scenes disappear that have even brighter HDR highlights...
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post #73 of 6789 Old 02-23-2020, 06:04 PM
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Just realized the 48" is not due until late May? Oof. Thats a giant bummer. Thought id be able to get it in April
I fiIng knew they would pull this.
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post #74 of 6789 Old 02-24-2020, 05:09 AM
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Never meant to suggest near-black uniformity is a concern all WOLED owners should share.

You are only going to notice near-black streaking/DSE in the case that you:

-watch in the pitch-black (nighttime viewing with no lights on).

-are calibrated for relatively modest brightness levels (120cd/m2 peak for SDR; OLED Light under 30).

-are watching a ‘dark’ piece of content (such as a Dark Knight flick or TRON) with pans over relatively uniform dark scenes

And even when you can check all of those boxes, it is only an occassional thing - I probably only see about one or two scenes a month that make me cringe.

But the bottom line is that that occassional issue is the greatest complaint I have with my near-perfect 65C6P. And I’d much rather have those very occasional cringe-worthy scenes disappear that have even brighter HDR highlights...
Near black uniformity was my top concern but as you've said here, it's an occasional issue and it doesn't bother me nearly as much as it used to. Maybe I'm just used to it now. What bothers me more is tinting, I see it all the time. Hoping this new crop coming out soon has that figured out.
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post #75 of 6789 Old 02-24-2020, 07:07 AM
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Originally Posted by bobbyg53 View Post
Recent online host comments about the 2020 TV Shootout Evaluation Event:

“Our June 10 - 11, 2020 TV Shootout Evaluation event where we'll be crowning the King of 4K TV and separately on day 2 the King of 8K TV and we'll be moving the two Kings butt next to each other so our panel of expert judges and presenters along with the attendees will be easily be able to analyze the picture quality differences.

We're having professional native 8K HDR content specially created for this 8K vs. 4K comparison at the 2020 TV Shootout. Stacy Spears is participating in our 2020 TV Shootout Evaluation as our key presenter and he is creating our native 8K and 4K test patterns and video content for our 8K vs. 4K comparison that will feature the best in class 8K and 4K TVs.”


.
Folks, hold your posts for the 2020 TV Shootout. Plans are being finalized right now and a new thread will be opened on AVS for discussion soon. All I can say is this year the event is going to be a little different, more educational and more interesting. Stacey Spears will be hosting the event along with a couple of other well known experts to be announced soon.
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post #76 of 6789 Old 02-24-2020, 09:34 AM
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Near black uniformity was my top concern but as you've said here, it's an occasional issue and it doesn't bother me nearly as much as it used to. Maybe I'm just used to it now. What bothers me more is tinting, I see it all the time. Hoping this new crop coming out soon has that figured out.
Was the tinting a panel issue relegated to 2019 (e.g. C9)?

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post #77 of 6789 Old 02-24-2020, 09:49 AM
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Was the tinting a panel issue relegated to 2019 (e.g. C9)?
I don't know how far back it goes, but I have a good dose of it on my 2017 A1E.

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post #78 of 6789 Old 02-24-2020, 11:17 AM
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Folks, hold your posts for the 2020 TV Shootout. Plans are being finalized right now and a new thread will be opened on AVS for discussion soon. All I can say is this year the event is going to be a little different, more educational and more interesting. Stacy Spears will be hosting the event along with a couple of other well known experts to be announced soon.

These are the sponsor’s current online posts.

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post #79 of 6789 Old 02-24-2020, 11:39 AM
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Near black uniformity was my top concern but as you've said here, it's an occasional issue and it doesn't bother me nearly as much as it used to. Maybe I'm just used to it now. What bothers me more is tinting, I see it all the time. Hoping this new crop coming out soon has that figured out.
Depends on the severity of your panel, I can vouch for seeing it much more frequently than a few times a month (typically in every movie it will rear its ahead, usually minor). Tinting is not a malady from which my panels suffer fortunately.
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post #80 of 6789 Old 02-24-2020, 04:19 PM
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With Coronavirus spreading, to South Korea and otter parts of China where LG makes OLED panels. I am positive there will be delays.
Anyone else ?
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post #81 of 6789 Old 02-24-2020, 04:29 PM
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With Coronavirus spreading, to South Korea and otter parts of China where LG makes OLED panels. I am positive there will be delays.
Anyone else ?
There could be yes, but I'm more anxious about all the innocent people who are dying, and a potential world economic crisis than a few TVs being delivered late, to be honest.
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post #82 of 6789 Old 02-24-2020, 04:49 PM
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^agreed.
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post #83 of 6789 Old 02-24-2020, 05:20 PM
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LGD’s China OLED TV fab still not in mass production

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. . . in China where LG makes OLED panels. I am positive there will be delays.

As of 02/21/2020, LGD's Guangzhou OLED TV fab is still not in mass production (due to new technology & manufacturing equipment issues):

https://www.oled-info.com/february-2...ass-production

.

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post #84 of 6789 Old 02-25-2020, 06:32 PM
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Folks, hold your posts for the 2020 TV Shootout. Plans are being finalized right now and a new thread will be opened on AVS for discussion soon. All I can say is this year the event is going to be a little different, more educational and more interesting. Stacey Spears will be hosting the event along with a couple of other well known experts to be announced soon.
So they can tell us how we are supposed to watch our (new) TVs - instead of letting us decide what looks best to us...?

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post #85 of 6789 Old 02-25-2020, 10:47 PM
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"DCI-P3 improvements - gamut increase from 99% DCI-P3 to 100% DCI-P3"
Is not LG C9 also 100% DCI-P3? At least after calibration because actually it has more than 100% of DCI-P3 and you can calibrate to 100% DCI-P3 container in BT.2020 color and it will be 100%... And most HDR films do not exceed DCI-P3, some exceptions are Spider Man Multiverse and BBC Planet earth II.

Also, that IQ thing, is it like True Tone of Apple but only for HDR? Well, cool then... That is rather important, because HDR is only valid in black room... Actually you need this for SDR as well... Sigh. But as always, only apple can do that.

"4K/120Hz 8-bit SDR 4:2:0 support via HDMI 2.0" Strange, it is what Dolby Vision in mass effect andromeda and other games works on PC... Hmmmm... Will g-sync work with 4:2:0?

"built-in hardware AV1 decoding " Wow. Nice, it is already working in Youtube all over the place, you can activate AV1 preference in Google Chrome/Firefox/Chromium Edge youtube.com settings, cool.

"HDMI-VRR range should be 40 to 120Hz for both G-sync and FreeSync;"
Not 0-120, alas....
Also DTS-HD HR is lossy, if I remember correctly. See second post...

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post #86 of 6789 Old 02-26-2020, 01:25 AM - Thread Starter
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"DCI-P3 improvements - gamut increase from 99% DCI-P3 to 100% DCI-P3"
Is not LG C9 also 100% DCI-P3?
Nope. It is 98-99%.

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Originally Posted by Balthazar Lin View Post
At least after calibration because actually it has more than 100% of DCI-P3
Nope.

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Originally Posted by Balthazar Lin View Post
Also DTS-HD HR is lossy, if I remember correctly.
Lossy, but HD. Similar to 8ch-DD+ (6ch-DD+ is not HD).
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post #87 of 6789 Old 02-26-2020, 03:15 AM
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Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
Nope. It is 98-99%.
It is because of luminocity (3d graph), not because of color (planar graph), though, correct? Could not find those 3d graphs immidiatelly.

Oh, okey it is actually "Normalized DCI P3 Coverage ITP
84.6 %"...

Last edited by Balthazar Lin; 02-26-2020 at 03:19 AM.
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post #88 of 6789 Old 02-26-2020, 03:03 PM
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With Coronavirus spreading, to South Korea and otter parts of China where LG makes OLED panels. I am positive there will be delays.
Anyone else ?
Factory in China not opening due to coronavirus now, so the muchedhoped for volume production of large OLED displays is not happening any time soon.
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post #89 of 6789 Old 02-26-2020, 03:06 PM
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Folks, hold your posts for the 2020 TV Shootout. Plans are being finalized right now and a new thread will be opened on AVS for discussion soon. All I can say is this year the event is going to be a little different, more educational and more interesting. Stacey Spears will be hosting the event along with a couple of other well known experts to be announced soon.
Definitely looking forward to 4K content viewed on the King of 4K vs King of 8K (upscaled); has upscaling algorithms improved so much that its' noticeable on a 65" TV? We want answers!!
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post #90 of 6789 Old 02-26-2020, 03:10 PM
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Sounds as though you have not yet owned a WOLED...

As mrtickluek pointed out, for those of us who watch in the dark, improved near-black uniformity is far more important than increased brightness.

Hopefully the 120Hz BFI on the CX delivers a significant improvement to near-black uniformity, but until LGE can approach Panasonic-like near-black uniformity and eliminates the panel lottery that they continue to have on that issue, they’ve got bigger fish to fry than chasing QLED in the (now largely passed) Brightness Wars...
Don't get me wrong, since I watch in near complete darkness (A9G), I'm completely satisfied with the Sony's level of brightness. And the brightness wars continue to be progressing (Vizio at 3000 nits now? crazy) because bright light is cheap I guess.
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