2019 LG C9–E9 dedicated GAMING thread, consoles and PC - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 78 Old 02-13-2020, 02:04 PM - Thread Starter
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2019 LG C9–E9 dedicated GAMING thread, consoles and PC

The LG OLED C9 and E9 are fantastic displays for watching movies/TV, and even better for playing console and/or PC games. With many cutting edge features like Variable Refresh Rates, G-sync, HDMI 2.1, Auto Low Latency Mode, HGiG and more, it's a great way to enhance the gaming experience.


But with the cutting edge often comes questions about setting the display for the best performance and picture quality. This is the thread to discuss this! What works well for you, what don't you understand, what games really show off this beautiful display...?


If you are a dedicated console or PC gamer and have a LG OLED, or are thinking of getting one, please SUBSCRIBE to this thread and participate in the discussion.
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post #2 of 78 Old 02-13-2020, 02:06 PM
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Thank you
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post #3 of 78 Old 02-13-2020, 02:12 PM - Thread Starter
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I'm thinking about adding a FAQ in post #1 over the weekend. I know HGiG tone-mapping is often discussed, what are some other confusing things about gaming on these displays?
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post #4 of 78 Old 02-13-2020, 02:19 PM
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G-Sync settings. What should be set in the Nvidia Controls vs In-games settings
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post #5 of 78 Old 02-13-2020, 02:29 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mboojigga View Post
G-Sync settings. What should be set in the Nvidia Controls vs In-games settings

Good point, this one is confusing and a perfect topic for a FAQ. I had to Google this topic last night because I was getting tearing with G-Sync on -- I found out if the framerate goes over the monitor's refresh rate (120Hz at 1440p) even with G-Sync on, screen tearing will result. In this case, my understanding is it's best to enable V-sync in-game if the game doesn't have a framecap to smooth out the framerate above the refresh rate.
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post #6 of 78 Old 02-13-2020, 05:31 PM
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Originally Posted by DaverJ View Post
Good point, this one is confusing and a perfect topic for a FAQ. I had to Google this topic last night because I was getting tearing with G-Sync on -- I found out if the framerate goes over the monitor's refresh rate (120Hz at 1440p) even with G-Sync on, screen tearing will result. In this case, my understanding is it's best to enable V-sync in-game if the game doesn't have a framecap to smooth out the framerate above the refresh rate.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mboojigga
G-Sync settings. What should be set in the Nvidia Controls vs In-games settings




This will answer all questions with gsync, vsync, the settings etc. I even asked the originator of the topic some questions and he replies right back.Basically gsync on (full window) and vsync ON in NCP and in game OFF. You'll see what he means.



https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync1...-and-settings/


PS also with the new NVIDIA drivers added a FPS limiter and he talks about this and how to set it in game. Super simple. Should eliminate all tearing with proper gsync/vsync settings. I use it now and I mostly game on my 65' C9 playing only one current game now Fallout 3 since I bought the TV on Black Friday.
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post #7 of 78 Old 02-13-2020, 06:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by 22Green View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mboojigga
G-Sync settings. What should be set in the Nvidia Controls vs In-games settings




This will answer all questions with gsync, vsync, the settings etc. I even asked the originator of the topic some questions and he replies right back.Basically gsync on (full window) and vsync ON in NCP and in game OFF. You'll see what he means.

Great info there, thanks so much! Nice that Nvidia has a per-game framerate cap at the driver level.
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post #8 of 78 Old 02-13-2020, 07:33 PM
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Great info there, thanks so much! Nice that Nvidia has a per-game framerate cap at the driver level.

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Great info there, thanks so much! Nice that Nvidia has a per-game framerate cap at the driver level.
I've tried to use the 'Fast' Vsync driver setting in Dirt Rally 2, but it leads to choppy frame rates for some reason even tho the GPU is outputting well above 120fps. So now I've resorted to increasing the settings to ensure that frame rates stay between 80-110 fps and use G sync instead. But I would rather have fast vsync at 120hz...

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Originally Posted by 22Green View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by mboojigga
G-Sync settings. What should be set in the Nvidia Controls vs In-games settings




This will answer all questions with gsync, vsync, the settings etc. I even asked the originator of the topic some questions and he replies right back.Basically gsync on (full window) and vsync ON in NCP and in game OFF. You'll see what he means.



PS also with the new NVIDIA drivers added a FPS limiter and he talks about this and how to set it in game. Super simple. Should eliminate all tearing with proper gsync/vsync settings. I use it now and I mostly game on my 65' C9 playing only one current game now Fallout 3 since I bought the TV on Black Friday.
I know that the correct setting is to use Vsync ON and cap the FPS. But with Vsync "ON" I get some micro stutter every 10s or so. So I am keeping Vsync off. My friend also have the same issue with Vsync On.
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I know that the correct setting is to use Vsync ON and cap the FPS. But with Vsync "ON" I get some micro stutter every 10s or so. So I am keeping Vsync off. My friend also have the same issue with Vsync On.

Interesting. You could post this on the Blur Buster page and jorimt will give ya his thoughts - maybe a fix.

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post #12 of 78 Old 02-14-2020, 07:03 AM - Thread Starter
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I've tried to use the 'Fast' Vsync driver setting in Dirt Rally 2, but it leads to choppy frame rates for some reason even tho the GPU is outputting well above 120fps. So now I've resorted to increasing the settings to ensure that frame rates stay between 80-110 fps and use G sync instead. But I would rather have fast vsync at 120hz...
Are you playing at 1440p/120Hz? Have you tried G-Sync ON, V-Sync OFF in-game, and capping the Max Framerate to 117?


That Fast Vsync option is also available at the driver level, but I haven't messed with it yet. It seems unnecessary with the above setup.

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Are you playing at 1440p/120Hz? Have you tried G-Sync ON, V-Sync OFF, and capping the Max Framerate to 117?


That Fast Vsync option is also available at the driver level, but I haven't messed with it yet. It seems unnecessary with the above setup.
Where would you cap the framerate? The game I play has no in-game limiter.

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post #14 of 78 Old 02-14-2020, 07:19 AM - Thread Starter
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Where would you cap the framerate? The game I play has no in-game limiter.

You can cap the framerate per-game at the driver level. In the NVIDIA control panel, click manage 3D settings, click Program Settings tab, add the game to this list (see picture below), and scroll down to select Max Frame Rate. Set the slider at 117 if gaming at 120Hz - this gives a couple frames headroom in case the framerate bounces above the cap. You also might want to turn Vsync ON for this game at the driver level here (and off in-game) as recommended by Blur Busters.




Or you can do the same at the global level (all games), but this isn't preferred if you ever do any gaming outside of 1440/120.


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post #15 of 78 Old 02-14-2020, 07:25 AM
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Interesting. You could post this on the Blur Buster page and jorimt will give ya his thoughts - maybe a fix.
ok, just did that!
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post #16 of 78 Old 02-14-2020, 07:28 AM - Thread Starter
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ok, just did that!

Please follow-up here with any update. I don't understand why both G-sync and V-sync would need to be ON when the game's framerate is capped just below the panel's refresh rate.
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You can cap the framerate per-game at the driver level. In the NVIDIA control panel, click manage 3D settings, click Program Settings tab, add the game to this list (see picture below), and scroll down to select Max Frame Rate. Set the slider at 117 if gaming at 120Hz - this gives a couple frames headroom in case the framerate bounces above the cap. You also might want to turn off Vsync for this game at the driver level here, and also in-game.
thx, will give that a try.

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post #18 of 78 Old 02-14-2020, 07:40 AM - Thread Starter
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thx, will give that a try.

Let us know how that works for you. G-sync over HDMI is new for a lot of us, so any info will help clarify the best setup for others.
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Please follow-up here with any update. I don't understand why both G-sync and V-sync would need to be ON when the game's framerate is capped just below the panel's refresh rate.

Hi DaverJ he explains that question in detail in that guide. Lots of people ask that, its a good question. I can't get to the guide at the moment its blocked by our co. Firewall and i'm in IT lol but I have my 2nd PC with an outside connection. I can try and find the page he talks about that.
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Hi DaverJ he explains that question in detail in that guide. Lots of people ask that, its a good question. I can't get to the guide at the moment its blocked by our co. Firewall and i'm in IT lol but I have my 2nd PC with an outside connection. I can try and find the page he talks about that.

Ok, I read through the Blur Busters G-Sync 101 pages. To be honest, I understand very little of it, but get the general gist.


It seems the Blur Busters recommendation is to have G-Sync ON in Full Screen Mode and V-sync ON at driver level (NVIDIA Control Panel), V-sync OFF (unchecked) in-game, and any in-game double/triple buffer options off.
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post #21 of 78 Old 02-14-2020, 11:06 AM
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Ok, I read through the Blur Busters G-Sync 101 pages. To be honest, I understand very little of it, but get the general gist.


It seems the Blur Busters recommendation is to have G-Sync ON in Full Screen Mode, V-sync ON at driver level (in NVIDIA Control Panel), and V-sync OFF in-game -- including any in-game double or triple buffer options off.

I hear ya theres lots of graphs and test results. That I really didn't pay much attn. too. It was more of the settings that I read. NVIDIA has same settings when they launched G-SYNC with the new LG's I was able to check out a couple of websites.



https://www.nvidia.com/en-us/geforce...ent-4786397340


What I have to do is get the new drivers for the FPS limiter. I just hate installing new drivers I like to wait like a month

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Please follow-up here with any update. I don't understand why both G-sync and V-sync would need to be ON when the game's framerate is capped just below the panel's refresh rate.
here is his response:

"Probably LG C9 HDMI-specific, and since VRR functionality is driven solely by software in this case, it could be TV firmware and/or driver-side causing it.

Have you tried a lower FPS limit with that combo to see if the microstutter is eliminated? Regardless, if V-SYNC “On” is giving you issues, feel free to disable it in this specific case."


Well, I have already tried with even lower FPS cap, but still got microstutter.
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post #23 of 78 Old 02-14-2020, 01:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, I have already tried with even lower FPS cap, but still got microstutter.

Thanks for posting the follow-up.

So you are getting microstutter with G-sync and V-sync ON via the NVIDIA Control Panel, and V-sync turned OFF in-game? Is this all games, or just a specific one?
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Thanks for posting the follow-up.

So you are getting microstutter with G-sync and V-sync ON via the NVIDIA Control Panel, and V-sync turned OFF in-game? Is this all games, or just a specific one?
Yes. Gsync + Vsync On + FPS Limited at 57.
I get a very slight stutter every 10s. Its not that bad, but with vsync "off" I dont get it and the game is 100% smooth, even when I get FPS drops to ~45.
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Thanks for posting the follow-up.

So you are getting microstutter with G-sync and V-sync ON via the NVIDIA Control Panel, and V-sync turned OFF in-game? Is this all games, or just a specific one?
jorimt added some more to my question:

"Yeah, the V-SYNC option with G-SYNC is not mandatory, just “optimal.” This article originally applied to a G-SYNC display containing a hardware module connected over DisplayPort.

Now with both unofficial and official G-SYNC Compatible available, and G-SYNC through both HDMI and DisplayPort, there are bound to be some outliers in this regard, and again, these issues may even vary by firmware and/or drivers at any given point on certain G-SYNC Compatible display models."

the article he talks about is this one: https://blurbusters.com/gsync/gsync1...-and-settings/
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LG C9 PC Input vs Game Console, "the struggles are real".

There is a ton of conflicting information regarding which is better for gaming. I have done lots of internet reading on this topic, therefore, I am NOT an expert or professional. I just want to point others to some of the information I have gathered so they can hopefully make a more educated guess.

To start, there is a ton of information in the Official Owners thread here on AVS forum, do yourself a favor and read through its contents. The contents of that thread have a lot to teach about displays and video processing. There is also a ton of information in the Display Calibration section of AVSforums, I suggest reading the C9/C8/C7 threads over there as well.


To Start:
Per Wiki
EDID: Extended Display Identification Data is a metadata format for display devices to describe their capabilities to a video source (e.g.
graphics card or set-top box). The data format is defined by a standard published by the Video Electronics Standards Association (VESA)

There are valid signals and invalid signals for each version of HDMI. Since we are talking about the new LG C9 and only have Hdmi 2.0 cables let us concern ourselves with only HDMI 2.0b. Here is a link to the supported 4k formats. Please scroll down to the bottom of the page and then to the bottom of the graph where it lists [email protected]

http://www.hstecc.com/Support-467.aspx


Math time
HDMI 2.0b can only handle 18Gbps max. Even if the TV displays an image it will not be correct if it is out of spec. Here is a link to a data calculator, if you want to play around with numbers click the advanced tab instead of basic.

https://www.extron.com/product/videotools.aspx

So now lets try and quickly understand what the TV will do with each of these signals, RGB/4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0. Vincent Teoh has a wonderful video of what a display device does with each of the formats. Please watch the entire video.


To briefly summarize
[email protected] 4:2:0 is not valid for any bitdepth
[email protected] 4:2:0 is valid for all bit depths
[email protected] 4:2:2 is only valid for 12bit
[email protected] 4:4:4 (RGB) is only valid for 8 bit

So if you have watched the video, Vincent goes over what the TV will do with each signal. Now since this is a thread about the LG C9, we need to figure out what this TV is doing with each signal. From what people have been reporting and to my limited understanding, when placed in PC mode the LG C9 accepts 4:4:4 fully and does not down convert . If you played around with the bandwidth calculator you would see that [email protected] 4:4:4 8bit is 17.82Gbps, almost 100% of the available bandwidth of HDMI 2.0b!

When in regular mode (Game Console, DVD, etc) the TV accepts the 4:4:4 signal but then down converts it to 4:2:2 and then up converts it back to 4:4:4 before displaying. Meaning, if you send it 4:2:2 to begin with it accepts the signal and only performs a single conversion. Now this is a moot point because at the end of the day 4:4:4 is properly handled by the C9, it just adds an extra layer of conversion. People have reported color banding being very prevalent when in PC mode. The best guess I can offer is that PC mode either or strips the TV of image quality functions and or nearly using 100% of the HDMI bandwidth limits some functions. Maybe a qualified person can chime in and help me understand what is going on.

So this leads us to see that PC input [email protected] 4:4:4 8bit is perfectly playable if you are playing SDR games. Some of you are probably thinking at this point, "Well if 8 bit is fine why cant I use 10 or even better, 12 bits?" If you were to check the Math link up above you would see that this combination requires to much bandwidth and therefore is not listed in the 2.0b spec.

But why did you buy this beefy 4k HDR tv if your limiting yourself to just SDR? Are there better options? Yes, yes there are. Read on to find out.


Now on to bit depth and HDR
HDR is very specific. It is encoded at 4:2:0 10bit with a LIMITED dynamic range (more on this later)
As Vincent above has told us 12bit acts as a buffer against errors and banding, meaning you should be able to safely play 8bit/10bit files through a 12bit signal.

By all accounts the LG C9 seems to processes 12bit accurately and remember that graph I linked earlier? Only 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 are valid signals at 12bit. So we have 2 options; 4:2:0 and 4:2:2. With the provided information this should be an easy guess, since the LG wants a 4:2:2 signal we should probably send it one.

Great!, so now we can properly play all of our PC games correctly in SDR and HDR! All we have to do is switch a ton of options around everytime we fire up a different game! What if I told you there was a more convenient way with just a slight loss in quality?


Convenience
Finding a single setting that works for both SDR and HDR is very, very, convenient.

Remember when I said as long as your display process 12bit correctly you use that instead of 8/10bit? What if I also said there is just a slight loss in quality when gaming in 4:2:2 vs 4:4:4? Sure your desktop and text is a little fuzzier but if your overly concerned with browsing the internet on your C9 Oled then why are you looking at a gaming thread??

Also we should touch on Dynamic Range now. I will keep it simple.
Black Level ( located in picture mode settings)
Low = Limited (video levels)
High = Full (PC levels)

Make them match. If you set Limited in the Nvidia Control Panel choose Low on the TV. If you go Full in the control panel go High in the TV. Remember HDR is ALWAYS LIMITED


Ma boob tubes seddins:
Nvidia Control Panel
Use Nvidia Color Settings
32bit Desktop color depth
Output Color Format: yCbCr 4:2:2
Output Color Depth: 12 bpc
Output Dynamic Range: Limited

TV settings:

Black Level: Low

I use the above for HDR and SDR and am perfectly satisfied with the results. I don't have to mess with any settings other than the annoying Windows Desktop HDR tab ( Can we please get rid of it Microsoft and switch modes automatically?). Hopefully there is some accuracy in what I have wrote here, maybe some technical people can chime in and point out where I am wrong.
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post #27 of 78 Old 02-15-2020, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forin View Post
Just a FYI, don't use this for HDMI 2.1 resolutions. The encoding for 18Gbps-48Gbps is different (16b/18b instead of 8b/10b) so the data rate number won't be correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by forin View Post
[email protected] 4:2:2 is only valid for 12bit
4:2:2 is a 12bit pixel format. But you can send 8 or 10 bit pixels inside it by padding the lower bits with zero. This is why you'll see "8, 10 or 12" listed for 4:2:2 on the various HDMI resolution charts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by forin View Post
When in regular mode (Game Console, DVD, etc) the TV accepts the 4:4:4 signal but then down converts it to 4:2:2 and then up converts it back to 4:4:4 before displaying.
Not sure if it goes back to 4:4:4. It definitely goes to RGB as that's what the calibration functions operate on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by forin View Post
HDR is very specific. It is encoded at 4:2:0 10bit with a LIMITED dynamic range (more on this later)
Limited quantization range. Dynamic range is how that quantization range maps to brightness.
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Last edited by avernar; 02-15-2020 at 02:35 PM.
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post #28 of 78 Old 02-15-2020, 07:22 PM
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LG C9 PC Input vs Game Console, "the struggles are real".

There is a ton of conflicting information regarding which is better for gaming. I have done lots of internet reading on this topic, therefore, I am NOT an expert or professional. I just want to point others to some of the information I have gathered so they can hopefully make a more educated guess.

To start, there is a ton of information in the Official Owners thread here on AVS forum, do yourself a favor and read through its contents. The contents of that thread have a lot to teach about displays and video processing. There is also a ton of information in the Display Calibration section of AVSforums, I suggest reading the C9/C8/C7 threads over there as well.


To Start:
Per Wiki
EDID: Extended Display Identification Data is a metadata format for display devices to describe their capabilities to a video source (e.g.
graphics card or set-top box). The data format is defined by a standard published by the Video Electronics Standards Association (VESA)

There are valid signals and invalid signals for each version of HDMI. Since we are talking about the new LG C9 and only have Hdmi 2.0 cables let us concern ourselves with only HDMI 2.0b. Here is a link to the supported 4k formats. Please scroll down to the bottom of the page and then to the bottom of the graph where it lists [email protected]

http://www.hstecc.com/Support-467.aspx


Math time
HDMI 2.0b can only handle 18Gbps max. Even if the TV displays an image it will not be correct if it is out of spec. Here is a link to a data calculator, if you want to play around with numbers click the advanced tab instead of basic.

https://www.extron.com/product/videotools.aspx

So now lets try and quickly understand what the TV will do with each of these signals, RGB/4:4:4/4:2:2/4:2:0. Vincent Teoh has a wonderful video of what a display device does with each of the formats. Please watch the entire video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pqg8Ky6T7vc

To briefly summarize
[email protected] 4:2:0 is not valid for any bitdepth
[email protected] 4:2:0 is valid for all bit depths
[email protected] 4:2:2 is only valid for 12bit
[email protected] 4:4:4 (RGB) is only valid for 8 bit

So if you have watched the video, Vincent goes over what the TV will do with each signal. Now since this is a thread about the LG C9, we need to figure out what this TV is doing with each signal. From what people have been reporting and to my limited understanding, when placed in PC mode the LG C9 accepts 4:4:4 fully and does not down convert . If you played around with the bandwidth calculator you would see that [email protected] 4:4:4 8bit is 17.82Gbps, almost 100% of the available bandwidth of HDMI 2.0b!

When in regular mode (Game Console, DVD, etc) the TV accepts the 4:4:4 signal but then down converts it to 4:2:2 and then up converts it back to 4:4:4 before displaying. Meaning, if you send it 4:2:2 to begin with it accepts the signal and only performs a single conversion. Now this is a moot point because at the end of the day 4:4:4 is properly handled by the C9, it just adds an extra layer of conversion. People have reported color banding being very prevalent when in PC mode. The best guess I can offer is that PC mode either or strips the TV of image quality functions and or nearly using 100% of the HDMI bandwidth limits some functions. Maybe a qualified person can chime in and help me understand what is going on.

So this leads us to see that PC input [email protected] 4:4:4 8bit is perfectly playable if you are playing SDR games. Some of you are probably thinking at this point, "Well if 8 bit is fine why cant I use 10 or even better, 12 bits?" If you were to check the Math link up above you would see that this combination requires to much bandwidth and therefore is not listed in the 2.0b spec.

But why did you buy this beefy 4k HDR tv if your limiting yourself to just SDR? Are there better options? Yes, yes there are. Read on to find out.


Now on to bit depth and HDR
HDR is very specific. It is encoded at 4:2:0 10bit with a LIMITED dynamic range (more on this later)
As Vincent above has told us 12bit acts as a buffer against errors and banding, meaning you should be able to safely play 8bit/10bit files through a 12bit signal.

By all accounts the LG C9 seems to processes 12bit accurately and remember that graph I linked earlier? Only 4:2:2 and 4:2:0 are valid signals at 12bit. So we have 2 options; 4:2:0 and 4:2:2. With the provided information this should be an easy guess, since the LG wants a 4:2:2 signal we should probably send it one.

Great!, so now we can properly play all of our PC games correctly in SDR and HDR! All we have to do is switch a ton of options around everytime we fire up a different game! What if I told you there was a more convenient way with just a slight loss in quality?


Convenience
Finding a single setting that works for both SDR and HDR is very, very, convenient.

Remember when I said as long as your display process 12bit correctly you use that instead of 8/10bit? What if I also said there is just a slight loss in quality when gaming in 4:2:2 vs 4:4:4? Sure your desktop and text is a little fuzzier but if your overly concerned with browsing the internet on your C9 Oled then why are you looking at a gaming thread??

Also we should touch on Dynamic Range now. I will keep it simple.
Black Level ( located in picture mode settings)
Low = Limited (video levels)
High = Full (PC levels)

Make them match. If you set Limited in the Nvidia Control Panel choose Low on the TV. If you go Full in the control panel go High in the TV. Remember HDR is ALWAYS LIMITED


Ma boob tubes seddins:
Nvidia Control Panel
Use Nvidia Color Settings
32bit Desktop color depth
Output Color Format: yCbCr 4:2:2
Output Color Depth: 12 bpc
Output Dynamic Range: Limited

TV settings:

Black Level: Low

I use the above for HDR and SDR and am perfectly satisfied with the results. I don't have to mess with any settings other than the annoying Windows Desktop HDR tab ( Can we please get rid of it Microsoft and switch modes automatically?). Hopefully there is some accuracy in what I have wrote here, maybe some technical people can chime in and point out where I am wrong.

Nice post. I've read the last 200 pages of this thread since I bought my TV on Black Friday and learned a ton. I check it every couple days and then this thread was started for gaming which I think is an great idea.


https://www.avsforum.com/forum/40-ol...-talk-422.html



My set up with the 65' is mostly gaming and learned just now about the Limited/Full setting when gaming and how the TV works coming from a LG 55 Smart TV



I've read lots of posts on the input we should use for the C9. I'm keeping it on PC input (HDMI 1) until someone can prove its definitely hindering my image / game quality which its not to my eyes. ratings.com says for gaming set it to PC mode. I've read a lot on Reddit that say use PC mode with RGB 8bit for best images/gaming.



I go with Game picture mode, (Black Level High) PC input with these settings for best picture quality in my SS. Looks awesome with G-Sync also.



My desktop and using Firefox is super clear. I use HDR Standard picture mode. (Black level Low)


Vincent videos are really good to watch. Good stuff.
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post #29 of 78 Old 02-16-2020, 10:24 AM
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Good thread


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post #30 of 78 Old 02-16-2020, 01:11 PM
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In my specific configuration 1080ti sending 12 bit 4:2:2 in PC actually has way worse banding compared to sending 8 bit, also it seems that enabling 6bit temporal dithering via registry edit almost completely removes PC banding when sending Ycbcr 444 8 bit in PC mode,while for some reason 8/10bit temporal dithering is worse.
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