Question, now that the CX is out what features can we expect in the 2021 C11 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 18 Old 04-17-2020, 04:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Question Question, now that the CX is out what features can we expect in the 2021 C11

So I ditched the C9 due to no 120 BFI, now that’s been solved in the CX which brings several upgraded features. With that out of the way. Can we speculate as to the features in the upcoming 2021 C11 line. Here my top 3.

A new A10 CPU. Not sure what the differences are between the A9Gen2 vs A9Gen3
Brighter 10th Gen panels from new Fabs
Finally 30,000 hour Blue phosphors not the 15,000 hour Blue phosphors which we have now which degrade at 8,000 hours.
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post #2 of 18 Old 04-17-2020, 09:44 AM
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Oled tech is maxed out, all they can do at this time is keep making new processors that can add slight tweaks to the picture that you can't even see without test patterns. The c9 and the cx is the same thing except for more gaming features so I expect that next year there will be even more features.
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post #3 of 18 Old 04-17-2020, 12:00 PM
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I love AVS. As soon as a new TV comes out people already want to know what the next one will have.

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post #4 of 18 Old 04-17-2020, 12:53 PM
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They need to get their act together on bigger sizes, first and foremost. Keeping the 88" at 30k (no price reduction at all year-on-year, despite wildly different economies of scale) this year was kind of shocking. As was making it impossible to wall mount again. (Purely due to obtuse design decisions—the 88" is actually far lighter weight than many larger sets you can mount with ease.)

I'm convinced size is a much bigger growth area than resolution at this point, and that they're leaving on the table a whole demographic of "prosumers" who would pay a substantial markup (but not $30k for a set that's largely unchanged year-on-year!) for an OLED in this size range.

The trouble is there's zero competition so they're resting on their laurels. Someone needs to start seriously going after the $80" plus market with high PQ sets, and I'm convinced this will happen soon, if nothing else out of desperation as manufacturers see how hard it is to make consumers notice 8K.

For now I'm getting a 77" C9 and waiting a few years, but the first player to introduce an 88" or larger OLED at under $20k, I'm in.
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post #5 of 18 Old 04-17-2020, 01:29 PM
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Top emmision panels. N 8k
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post #6 of 18 Old 04-17-2020, 01:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by picturequality View Post
Oled tech is maxed out, all they can do at this time is keep making new processors that can add slight tweaks to the picture that you can't even see without test patterns. The c9 and the cx is the same thing except for more gaming features so I expect that next year there will be even more features.
TV business is cutthroat. It's not that the tech is maxed out but their investment is.
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post #7 of 18 Old 04-17-2020, 03:11 PM
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I think if you look at the European Panasonic OLED you can see that they are putting a lot of cooling on the back of the panel in order to boost nits. For me the future is all about nits. Could care less about 8k.

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post #8 of 18 Old 04-17-2020, 06:01 PM
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I keep hearing [email protected] being lauded on here but does anyone know how much input lag it's going to add? I own a 77" C9 currently and at 60hz the OLED is blurry, but even at 120hz it's a far cry from my CRTs. can [email protected] be that good?

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post #9 of 18 Old 04-17-2020, 07:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by xsamx View Post
Top emmision panels. N 8k
Unlikely since they figured out how to do 8k without needing it and it increases cost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by video_analysis View Post
TV business is cutthroat. It's not that the tech is maxed out but their investment is.
Yes, the OLED is maxed out meme is ridiculous, their focus not being on further PQ improvements doesn't mean it's maxed out, their focus right now is simply on increasing capacity and lowering costs. But there are things in their back pocket they can implement to improve PQ if they so need it, like top emission mentioned above, which would bring a nice jump to max nits and APL. They also have a new pixel stack they probably tried to introduce this year that would have increased the color gamut, but likely backed off due to the problems getting the China plant at full capacity, and just said screw it and went with the same panels as last year for max yields and cost savings. And there may be a moderate improvement to the blue emitter available in the next year or 2, which can bring a small bum to brightness as well. So the pathways are available for improvements.

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Originally Posted by Bahn Yuki View Post
I keep hearing [email protected] being lauded on here but does anyone know how much input lag it's going to add? I own a 77" C9 currently and at 60hz the OLED is blurry, but even at 120hz it's a far cry from my CRTs. can [email protected] be that good?
If properly implemented it would be a very nice jump, but not close to CRT level, more approaching (not equaling) plasma level.
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post #10 of 18 Old 04-24-2020, 07:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Areth View Post
They need to get their act together on bigger sizes, first and foremost. Keeping the 88" at 30k (no price reduction at all year-on-year, despite wildly different economies of scale) this year was kind of shocking. As was making it impossible to wall mount again. (Purely due to obtuse design decisions—the 88" is actually far lighter weight than many larger sets you can mount with ease.)

I'm convinced size is a much bigger growth area than resolution at this point, and that they're leaving on the table a whole demographic of "prosumers" who would pay a substantial markup (but not $30k for a set that's largely unchanged year-on-year!) for an OLED in this size range.

The trouble is there's zero competition so they're resting on their laurels. Someone needs to start seriously going after the $80" plus market with high PQ sets, and I'm convinced this will happen soon, if nothing else out of desperation as manufacturers see how hard it is to make consumers notice 8K.

For now I'm getting a 77" C9 and waiting a few years, but the first player to introduce an 88" or larger OLED at under $20k, I'm in.
I am pretty sure you are wrong. In north america a lot of people want bigger sizes, but in most parts of the world they simply don't have room for giant crap like that. Remember when microsoft laucnhed kinnect on the Xbox 360? People outside north american were asking "where are we supposed to have that much space in front of the TV to play with that?". Seemed Microsoft's developers had no concept of what a house was like outside their little part of the world.

There is a reason LG is introducing the 48" this year. The 55" is too big for a large part of the world market.

So in perhaps 5 or 10% (I might be a bit low there) of the world market for TVs, bigger is considered better. In the rest, quality is preferred because bigger isn't an option at all.
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post #11 of 18 Old 04-24-2020, 09:32 AM
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In asian pacific countries, people who care for very large screen sizes just tend to go for projectors -jvc/epson/optoma customers. There is a segment interested in large sizes but they are not into tv's. 70+ /80+ /90+ tv's have a very small market, and i dont see the trend changing soon. they sell more 70+/80+/90+ tv's in europe comparatively, in uk especially, but it's still much less than compared to north america.
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post #12 of 18 Old 04-24-2020, 09:48 AM
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Some have suggested that there may not be new TV models at the beginning of 2021:


I suspect Sony will release their new OLEDs at the end of the year, new electronics married to the current LG display.

There is a good argument to be made that the supply chain is so disrupted this year, that companies are more worried about getting their current technology out to market and actually delivered.

Only place you can really "see" a new TV in the US is in Walmart at this time, not exactly the showcase location for OLED or other high end TVs. What will that do for demand this year?

As the above video suggests, I also believe that TV makers may put off incremental technology improvements next year by skipping/delaying new models. Only new tech will actually be introduced in limited amounts.

Who really thinks CES will happen? Will that many companies really want to send reps to CES? What will that do for new TV buzz next year? If I were a TV maker, I would view it as a good year to cut back and see. I could always rush something to market later in the year if I thought I needed it.
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post #13 of 18 Old 04-24-2020, 09:53 AM
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QD-OLED ..does it see a release in 2021 or not...that's the big question.

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post #14 of 18 Old 05-02-2020, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantc View Post
I love AVS. As soon as a new TV comes out people already want to know what the next one will have.
Could it mean the CX is underwhelming AVS people?
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post #15 of 18 Old 05-03-2020, 01:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Ice Cold View Post
So I ditched the C9 due to no 120 BFI, now that’s been solved in the CX which brings several upgraded features. With that out of the way. Can we speculate as to the features in the upcoming 2021 C11 line. Here my top 3.
A new A10 CPU. Not sure what the differences are between the A9Gen2 vs A9Gen3
Seems to be about one gen, give or take.

What makes you think A10 is going to be different from A9 Gen3 any more than the A9 Gen 2 is different from the A9?

The next advancement in LG WOLED tech is going to be top emission. Everything until then is just car model year updates - new headlights, new pre-tuned stations on the radio.
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post #16 of 18 Old 05-03-2020, 05:58 AM
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In the Sony threads dealers indicate that Sony is not going to come out with an A9H this year and is carrying over the A9G line until next year. There will not be a lot of pressure on LG to change models.
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post #17 of 18 Old 05-10-2020, 07:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Areth View Post
They need to get their act together on bigger sizes, first and foremost. Keeping the 88" at 30k (no price reduction at all year-on-year, despite wildly different economies of scale) this year was kind of shocking. As was making it impossible to wall mount again. (Purely due to obtuse design decisions—the 88" is actually far lighter weight than many larger sets you can mount with ease.)

I'm convinced size is a much bigger growth area than resolution at this point, and that they're leaving on the table a whole demographic of "prosumers" who would pay a substantial markup (but not $30k for a set that's largely unchanged year-on-year!) for an OLED in this size range.

The trouble is there's zero competition so they're resting on their laurels. Someone needs to start seriously going after the $80" plus market with high PQ sets, and I'm convinced this will happen soon, if nothing else out of desperation as manufacturers see how hard it is to make consumers notice 8K.

For now I'm getting a 77" C9 and waiting a few years, but the first player to introduce an 88" or larger OLED at under $20k, I'm in.
I am pretty sure you are wrong. In north america a lot of people want bigger sizes, but in most parts of the world they simply don't have room for giant crap like that. Remember when microsoft laucnhed kinnect on the Xbox 360? People outside north american were asking "where are we supposed to have that much space in front of the TV to play with that?". Seemed Microsoft's developers had no concept of what a house was like outside their little part of the world.

There is a reason LG is introducing the 48" this year. The 55" is too big for a large part of the world market.

So in perhaps 5 or 10% (I might be a bit low there) of the world market for TVs, bigger is considered better. In the rest, quality is preferred because bigger isn't an option at all.
I think the history of these kinds of conversations about TV size prove otherwise. You can find all sort of takes from the early 2000s arguing no one will ever want a PC monitor over 21”, and 27” and 30” plus monitors are now mainstream in that context. Likewise there were plenty of takes on online forums from that period arguing that 50” plus TVs were always going to be niche and now they’re mid-market.

The Asian market being more size conscious with respect to some kinds of consumer electronics doesn’t support an inference that there’s not a growing global market for increasingly large screens over time. The evidence shows exactly the opposite.

The global failure of Kinekt, and the broader failure of the Xbox brand in Japan, are very separate things from screen size market demands. There wasn’t sustainable demand for Kinekt anywhere (a subject for a larger op-ed—don’t forget it had no must-have software and was tied up in Microsoft’s failed “Xbox is now a cable box” strategy). Xbox software and hardware alienated Japanese gamers in a lot of different ways, not just size or space demands.

(And more broadly, never bank on arguments that people won’t want advancement in consumer tech. Remember that there were long-standing arguments that color TV would be niche as well.)
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post #18 of 18 Old 05-10-2020, 08:03 AM
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Will there be advances in OLED panel tech next year? I don't think we have seen significant progress in mainstream/affordable OLED except for bringing the resolution up to 4K. But, we have seen serious advances in price drops! To be able to get a 77in C9 for $3,600 is just amazing!

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