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post #1 of 33 Old 04-19-2020, 08:06 PM - Thread Starter
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LG vs Sony: 24fps Motion Interpolation Comparison (filmed at 240fps)

Following from my post #1505 in the LG CX Owners thread, here's some 240fps slow motion footage of some 24fps content played back on the LG CX OLED and the Sony Z9F LCD TVs.

It's not quite an apples-to-apples comparison (OLED vs LCD), but should give you a good idea of what the LG Alpha 9 Gen 3 (TruMotion) and the Sony X1 Ultimate (MotionFlow) processors are capable of (and their limitations). This post is not intended to be a criticism of either system - just an objective presentation of how both of these behave.

If you are accustomed to 24fps content with no motion smoothing, then you are probably a true videophile. This comparison is for everyone else out there (like myself) who have issues with 24fps stutter caused by the amazingly fast response times on higher-end TVs, and wish to rely on (some) motion smoothing to reduce that effect.

I don't own the LG CX anymore, but I'm sure other owners would be able to answer any questions that may come up.

Interesting scenes to observe (i.e. look out for artifacts where the algorithms fail):
- 1:05ish onwards - The legs crossing over each other/wheelchair spokes
- 1:25ish onwards - The man walking across the hallway/different backgrounds

Full playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?lis...ezYj5-ohVQn6B9

Off (baseline - note: some blur due to the LCD's slower response time):

Low (Cinema Clear vs Smoothness 1):

Low (Cinema Clear vs Smoothness 2):

Smooth (Smooth vs Smoothness Max):
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Last edited by jowo; 04-19-2020 at 08:11 PM.
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post #2 of 33 Old 04-19-2020, 08:35 PM
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You have any comparisons with LG trumotion at custom values for smoothness and/or deblur by chance?

Sony 65" A1E
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post #3 of 33 Old 04-19-2020, 08:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by MrSniper1401 View Post
You have any comparisons with LG trumotion at custom values for smoothness and/or deblur by chance?
Sorry, Off/Cinema Clear/Smooth were the only ones I shot before the TV was returned.
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post #4 of 33 Old 04-20-2020, 01:46 AM
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Would you be ok with sharing where is this sample from (name of movie or TV show and the timestamp at which it starts)?
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post #5 of 33 Old 04-20-2020, 05:55 AM
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Would you be ok with sharing where is this sample from (name of movie or TV show and the timestamp at which it starts)?
I thought it might be "Scrubs", but the last clip has an on-screen warning saying "strong violence" on the LCD half of the picture

@jowo many thanks for this. Very interesting that there is a slight black flicker on the OLED in all modes. Like a "poor man's BFI", almost, but with BFI completely turned off?

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post #6 of 33 Old 04-20-2020, 06:17 AM
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I know it wasn't possible, but I'd love to see the Sony A9G next to the CX with this test. The flickering on the LG was very distracting.
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What that flickering is? Dude turned OLED Motion on?
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post #8 of 33 Old 04-20-2020, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Would you be ok with sharing where is this sample from (name of movie or TV show and the timestamp at which it starts)?
It's The Irishman on Netflix (starting from around 0:45 in the movie). Both running on the internal apps (LG webOS/Sony Android TV).

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@jowo many thanks for this. Very interesting that there is a slight black flicker on the OLED in all modes. Like a "poor man's BFI", almost, but with BFI completely turned off?
Yeah, it's a bit strange. The camera was set with a 180degree shutter angle on both. I'm wondering if that's just a result of the differences in the way the TVs operate their backlight (OLED being individual pixel, LCD having the FALD backlight). I hope someone else with more knowledge can explain it.

Edit: It may be this (from Rting's C9 review in the Flicker-free section):
Quote:
The LG C9 doesn't use PWM, as there's no backlight, but there's a slight dip in brightness approximately every 8 ms, which coincides with the TV's refresh rate. This shouldn't be noticeable.
At 240fps, each frame would be ~4.17ms, so that dip in brightness every 8ms would be captured in the footage.

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Originally Posted by Dimon.Zorg View Post
What that flickering is? Dude turned OLED Motion on?
OLED Motion Pro was off (since it's not possible to enable that on the internal apps on the CX). On the Sony, "Clearness" is set to Min (i.e. X-Motion Clarity disabled), so no BFI there either.

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I know it wasn't possible, but I'd love to see the Sony A9G next to the CX with this test. The flickering on the LG was very distracting.
From Rtings, the A9G seems to have the same brightness dip every 8ms.
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post #9 of 33 Old 04-20-2020, 02:33 PM
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Originally Posted by jowo View Post
OLED Motion Pro was off (since it's not possible to enable that on the internal apps on the CX). On the Sony, "Clearness" is set to Min (i.e. X-Motion Clarity disabled), so no BFI there either.
That’s weird. Enabling Motion Pro (BFI) is definitely possible on the C8 for the internal apps. Makes no sense that they would remove this functionality.
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post #10 of 33 Old 04-20-2020, 02:48 PM - Thread Starter
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That’s weird. Enabling Motion Pro (BFI) is definitely possible on the C8 for the internal apps. Makes no sense that they would remove this functionality.
It is indeed weird. When in the internal apps, selecting TruMotion: User will only have options for Dejudder and Deblur (i.e. missing the OLED Motion Pro setting that appears for content from HDMI inputs).

But LG also removed the DTS decoder in the 2020 models, so who knows what their thinking is.
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Originally Posted by jowo View Post
It is indeed weird. When in the internal apps, selecting TruMotion: User will only have options for Dejudder and Deblur (i.e. missing the OLED Motion Pro setting that appears for content from HDMI inputs).

But LG also removed the DTS decoder in the 2020 models, so who knows what their thinking is.
No way! No DTS support for the internal media player on the X series? That sucks big time. I was thinking about possibly upgrading to a 77” early but now I’ll be keeping my C8 for a while. I love using playing my rips off of external drives without having to stream from a notebook.

I was looking forward to them adding DTHD/HDMA support not for them to go in the other direction.
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Stupid comparing OLED on one side and LCD on the other. You could have done the same with Sony OLED and LG nanocell LCD and come up with similar looking footage.
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post #13 of 33 Old 04-20-2020, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
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Stupid comparing OLED on one side and LCD on the other. You could have done the same with Sony OLED and LG nanocell LCD and come up with similar looking footage.
The purpose of these videos is to show the motion interpolation at work - would you care to explain how the comparison is "stupid"?
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The purpose of these videos is to show the motion interpolation at work - would you care to explain how the comparison is "stupid"?
OK I misunderstood the purpose and said what I said. All I could notice at first was the flickering on the OLED half. Perhaps adding a little explanation up front saying ignore the flickering due to different technologies involved, and only pay attention to the interpolation artifacts would have helped.
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post #15 of 33 Old 04-21-2020, 08:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jowo View Post
The purpose of these videos is to show the motion interpolation at work - would you care to explain how the comparison is "stupid"?
OK I misunderstood the purpose and said what I said. All I could notice at first was the flickering on the OLED half. Perhaps adding a little explanation up front saying ignore the flickering due to different technologies involved, and only pay attention to the interpolation artifacts would have helped.
So, no apology? That is sort of sad. Hmmm, I guess it is a fact of 2020.
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Well, they both looked awful on all settings except off, or at least the 1st and last interpolation settings. Especially the 2nd case you mentioned at 1:25. What was your conclusion? I wouldn't conclude the Sony was better based on these specific examples. I will admit I didn't watch past the 1:25 example.
Off was best as expected, except for the stutter, of course.

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The best are always manual settings. 3/10 or 4/10 if we talk about LG. If we turn off interpolation it would be awful in 24p content
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So, no apology? That is sort of sad. Hmmm, I guess it is a fact of 2020.
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post #19 of 33 Old 04-22-2020, 10:47 AM
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So, no apology? That is sort of sad. Hmmm, I guess it is a fact of 2020.
LOL ! Well “alright, alright, alright !” Good job sir ! Proud of ya.
We ALL need ExTRA civility in these times. And humor, which you have shown in abundance. So I salute you on this day.
Everyone be safe. Outstanding viewing !
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Well, they both looked awful on all settings except off, or at least the 1st and last interpolation settings. Especially the 2nd case you mentioned at 1:25. What was your conclusion? I wouldn't conclude the Sony was better based on these specific examples. I will admit I didn't watch past the 1:25 example.
Off was best as expected, except for the stutter, of course.
To my eyes, it looks like the LG at Cinema Clear tries to be too aggressive with the interpolation in some parts (especially near edges of two different colours where something is moving), and this seems to result in more blocky/harder edge artifacts. The Sony at Smoothness 1 still has artifacts, but seems to be able avoid blocky artifacts a bit better (it's more evident in the 2nd example with the dark shirt man than the first).

I wouldn't use the maximum smoothness setting on either for 24p content because of SOE and the edge problems that appear on both.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jowo View Post
To my eyes, it looks like the LG at Cinema Clear tries to be too aggressive with the interpolation in some parts (especially near edges of two different colours where something is moving), and this seems to result in more blocky/harder edge artifacts. The Sony at Smoothness 1 still has artifacts, but seems to be able avoid blocky artifacts a bit better (it's more evident in the 2nd example with the dark shirt man than the first).

I wouldn't use the maximum smoothness setting on either for 24p content because of SOE and the edge problems that appear on both.
Based on your findings, you decided to keep the Sony, right? What about one of the Sony OLEDs?

Just based on what I saw, I would try to make no interpolation work for me for the current technology (even for Sony), but I can't really comment from personal experience in my living room.

Thanks for the video.

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post #22 of 33 Old 04-23-2020, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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Based on your findings, you decided to keep the Sony, right? What about one of the Sony OLEDs?

Just based on what I saw, I would try to make no interpolation work for me for the current technology (even for Sony), but I can't really comment from personal experience in my living room.

Thanks for the video.
Well, I was already returning the LG because I preferred the size of a 75" over a 65", and 75" OLED was out of my price range (the 75" Z9F was cheaper than the 65" CX). Hope to be able to upgrade to an emissive display down the line - maybe when QD-OLED or microLED become commoditized in X years time.
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Easily Fixed by LG Firmware please redo tests in 6 months. LCD smear or blur is unacceptable. Flickering on LG is imperceptible.

I’d love to see a 3 Way Video of LG CX, Vizio OLED, and Sony Flagship OLED. *plot twist they all use LG OLED panels.

Things should get spicy when in 2021

LG OLED 10th Gen Panels (With new Blue phosphors and Top emissive brighter panels)
Samsung OLED
Panasonic OLED
Sony OLED
Vizio OLED
Hisense OLED

Are all on the shelves at Best Buy. Hoping my 55” CX can compete.
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Things should get spicy when in 2021

LG OLED 10th Gen Panels (With new Blue phosphors and Top emissive brighter panels)
Samsung OLED
Panasonic OLED
Sony OLED
Vizio OLED
Hisense OLED

Are all on the shelves at Best Buy. Hoping my 55” CX can compete.
Lot of wishful thinking on your part, new blue emitter or TADF isnt going to happen next year, LG has it on their roadmap but not so soon, as for top emission lg has dropped the plan.
hisense pulled out of oled tv business this year so no hisense oled next year
panasonic doesnt sell oled in america and it's going to remain the same next year
samsung oled...with disruptions caused by the virus..QD-OLED is now looking a big question mark for a 2021 launch. will possibly slip to 2022 or beyond.
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Easily Fixed by LG Firmware please redo tests in 6 months.
Eh? Please re-read the first post, ie the bit that says clearly: "I don't own the LG CX anymore".

For the rest, I agree with Rysa_105, you seem to be in a parallel fantasy universe if you expect all that in 2021

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It's much more likely that Panasonic exits the TV business entirely next year than it enters the US market.
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^I don't like your post, but I agree with it.
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^I don't like your post, but I agree with it.
I'd agree in the sense that it's an analogy and both are incredibly unlikely to happen.

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post #29 of 33 Old 04-25-2020, 03:23 PM
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Doesn't seem that incredibly unlikely to me, not unless the western world largely scales back its supply chain reliance on China. Panasonic plasma sales figures in the US in 2012 were just shy of 3 million (couldn't easily find it but assume the final year of sales was a fraction of that, perhaps 2/3rds of the 2012 figures on the low end), which while a small percentage of US TV sales was still a considerable revenue loss.

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It's much more likely that Panasonic exits the TV business entirely next year than it enters the US market.
That's going overboard with the doom and gloom predictions, yes the way things are going for panasonic and if things dont improve in the near future, then eventually panasonic would be left with no option other than to wrap up its tv division. But it's not going to be so sudden. They are losing a lot of money, but if they can afford R&D costs on the custom panel and continue to hire a hollywood colorist to do the color calibration on their tv's, they can't be -that- cash stripped. They still enjoy a brand recognition in europe and some countries of asia. They of course dont sell anywhere near as much as lg, but in these territories they can hold on for a few more years by doing limited volume. But if the financial situation does not improve and they keep seeing losses, then they'll have no option but to pull the plug in a few years.
As for U.s., now with panasonic pulling out of canada and budget brands like vizio and a couple of chinese ones entering the U.s. oled market who would easily undercut panasonic on pricing, the probability of panasonic returning to the tv market in U.s. is practically nil.

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