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post #16141 of 16184 Old 11-09-2019, 05:26 AM
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And if gamut is more or less a wash and peak brightness is only ~50% of WOLED, no way they have higher color volume - WOLED could match that volume without using the white subpixels at all.
For WOLED right now it's about 400-500 cd/m² without the white subpixels.
A RGB layout rather than a RGBW one could grab color volume even while being considerably dimmer overall. Maybe not 500, but in the 700 cd/m² range.

Not sure if Samsung would risk going very high due to BI concerns, but they simply have to beat LG on something to have any claim in the market. It's not going to be production cost, and it's not going to be overall brightness, because of how hard the white subpixel is to beat. It can't be price (they can't position it below their own LCD, and LG's OLED is already below that), They'll drive the pixels as hard as they need to measure ahead in color volume, then double down on marketing that as the defining metric of a TV.


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Except I believe they have already stated they will exclusively aim QD-BOLED at 8K...
Missed that apparently. Thought they'd do a 4K first, where it's easier. But makes sense.


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If Samsung ends up needing to price their 65” 8K QD-BOLED below LG’s 65Z22 in order to sell-through, that will be a bad omen...
Not sure if the Z-series will be LG's only 8K offering by 2022, or if there will be a Z-series as small as 65". The size is going out of style even for upper-middle class households, much less for the high-end segment.

Other than the relatively better fit on the glass, there seems to be little reason for Samsung will bother with a 65" model at all, if they're going all-8K. I agree that their 8K will definitely be priced above LG's 8K.

Just wonder how many people are there that are willing to pay the N-times premium for LG's Z-series or something pricier, but for some reason can't fit anything larger than a 65". Most rooms, doorways and stairwells still fit TVs up to about 80" and a bit over. And almost everyone, once they've spent a couple years with a TV from the 55"-75" generation, still wants to go up in size.
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post #16142 of 16184 Old 11-09-2019, 02:04 PM
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And if gamut is more or less a wash and peak brightness is only ~50% of WOLED, no way they have higher color volume - WOLED could match that volume without using the white subpixels at all.
For WOLED right now it's about 400-500 cd/m² without the white subpixels.
A RGB layout rather than a RGBW one could grab color volume even while being considerably dimmer overall. Maybe not 500, but in the 700 cd/m² range.
My estimate as well. I see 0% chance LG abandons their white subpixel before TADF is in production (and likely even after) but the point is that first-generation fluorescent-blue QD-BOLED is unlikely to surpass WOLED on color volume.

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Not sure if Samsung would risk going very high due to BI concerns, but they simply have to beat LG on something to have any claim in the market. It's not going to be production cost, and it's not going to be overall brightness, because of how hard the white subpixel is to beat. It can't be price (they can't position it below their own LCD, and LG's OLED is already below that), They'll drive the pixels as hard as they need to measure ahead in color volume, then double down on marketing that as the defining metric of a TV.
I agree on the need for some differentiator. They will probably use ‘true RGB’ to attempt to differentiate on color ‘purity’ (which will be a stretch, especially if LG offers a lower peak brightness ‘pure color’ mode). Interestingly, it may be off-angle viewing performance. WOLED is not perfect when it comes to maintaining color uniformity off-angle and QD’s should deliver off-angle uniformity closer to plasma. WOLEDs other Achilles Heel is near-black uniformity and if QD-BOLED delivers plasma-like 3% grey, I’d be ready to pay a readonable premium for that...


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Except I believe they have already stated they will exclusively aim QD-BOLED at 8K...
Missed that apparently. Thought they'd do a 4K first, where it's easier. But makes sense.


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If Samsung ends up needing to price their 65â€Â 8K QD-BOLED below LG’️s 65Z22 in order to sell-through, that will be a bad omen...
Not sure if the Z-series will be LG's only 8K offering by 2022, or if there will be a Z-series as small as 65". The size is going out of style even for upper-middle class households, much less for the high-end segment.
I think we’ll see a 65” 8K WOLED announced at CES along with either a 77” or a 75” (planning ahead for the 10.5G fab). There is an outside chance we’ll also see an 82” 8K model announced, but this (along with 75” rather than 77”) may take another year or even 2...

Samsung has already established a (emerging) market for 65” 8K so even though I agree with you that there is little sense in the segment, LGD has little choice but to shadow Samsung’s lead...


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Other than the relatively better fit on the glass, there seems to be little reason for Samsung will bother with a 65" model at all, if they're going all-8K. I agree that their 8K will definitely be priced above LG's 8K.

Just wonder how many people are there that are willing to pay the N-times premium for LG's Z-series or something pricier, but for some reason can't fit anything larger than a 65". Most rooms, doorways and stairwells still fit TVs up to about 80" and a bit over. And almost everyone, once they've spent a couple years with a TV from the 55"-75" generation, still wants to go up in size.
This is the big challange Samsung has. Now, to their credit, they are banking on the industrialization of high-efficiency BLUE (TADF or whatever) which benefits QD-BOLED more than WOLED (~300% brightness or lower manufacturing cost) so if they have the deep pockets to invest until that future is a reality, there could be a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow for them.

But 2022 and possibly also 2023 will be brutal - they will need to sell every TV they produce at a loss (as did LG with WOLED through the early going). The difference is that LGD only produced 100,000 and then 300,000 panels in those first 2 years while Samsung is aiming to ramp QD-BOLED much more aggressively...
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post #16143 of 16184 Old 11-11-2019, 08:51 PM
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Leading US professor's very recent thoughts on the future of organic electronics, incl. OLED displays, OLED lighting, solar, OTFT, and even imaging:


Great stuff if you're an emerging tech materials nerd!
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post #16144 of 16184 Old 11-16-2019, 12:37 PM
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Looks like late 2020 will be the timeframe to get a (relative) bargain on a 77” WOLED: http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/news/...ml?idxno=34962

“Currently, the volume of 77-inch OLED panels produced at LG Display's Paju plant is not large. IHS Markets forecast that shipments of 77-inch OLED panels, which remained at only 27,000 units last year, soar to 60,000 units next year.”

The report states that the new plant in Guangzhou is only producing 55” and 65” panels this year, meaning 2019 will probably be a relatively ‘flat’ year as far as 77” WOLED production (30,000? 35,000?).

While I question the choice of the word ‘soar’ when we are talking about reaching production levels which are still less than 0.03% of the overall TV market by volume, ~doubling 77” WOLED panel production next year will translate to price levels which are 2/3 to 3/4 of this season’s levels (meaning we should see the 77C20 widely available for under $4000 next year and possibly breaking under $3000 in bargain online channels).
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post #16145 of 16184 Old 11-17-2019, 11:12 AM
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Looks like late 2020 will be the timeframe to get a (relative) bargain on a 77” WOLED: http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/news/...ml?idxno=34962

“Currently, the volume of 77-inch OLED panels produced at LG Display's Paju plant is not large. IHS Markets forecast that shipments of 77-inch OLED panels, which remained at only 27,000 units last year, soar to 60,000 units next year.”

The report states that the new plant in Guangzhou is only producing 55” and 65” panels this year, meaning 2019 will probably be a relatively ‘flat’ year as far as 77” WOLED production (30,000? 35,000?).

While I question the choice of the word ‘soar’ when we are talking about reaching production levels which are still less than 0.03% of the overall TV market by volume, ~doubling 77” WOLED panel production next year will translate to price levels which are 2/3 to 3/4 of this season’s levels (meaning we should see the 77C20 widely available for under $4000 next year and possibly breaking under $3000 in bargain online channels).
With the next big price reduction for 75/77in panels being in 2022 when the 10.5G panels are for sale?
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post #16146 of 16184 Old 11-17-2019, 03:31 PM
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Looks like late 2020 will be the timeframe to get a (relative) bargain on a 77â€Â WOLED: http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/news/...ml?idxno=34962

“Currently, the volume of 77-inch OLED panels produced at LG Display's Paju plant is not large. IHS Markets forecast that shipments of 77-inch OLED panels, which remained at only 27,000 units last year, soar to 60,000 units next year.â€Â

The report states that the new plant in Guangzhou is only producing 55â€Â and 65â€Â panels this year, meaning 2019 will probably be a relatively ‘flat’️ year as far as 77â€Â WOLED production (30,000? 35,000?).

While I question the choice of the word ‘soar’️ when we are talking about reaching production levels which are still less than 0.03% of the overall TV market by volume, ~doubling 77â€Â WOLED panel production next year will translate to price levels which are 2/3 to 3/4 of this season’️s levels (meaning we should see the 77C20 widely available for under $4000 next year and possibly breaking under $3000 in bargain online channels).
With the next big price reduction for 75/77in panels being in 2022 when the 10.5G panels are for sale?
Yes, in 2020, between the Guangzhou 8.5G fab starting to manufacture 77” panels and the introduction of MMG, will see a ~doubling in 77” WOLED production along with the price drops needed to absorb that increased volume.

The next big drop will be in 2022 when the new 10.5G plant in Paju starts pumping out 65” and 75” WOLED panels.

A 10.5G sheet costs less than 50% more than an 8.5G to manufacture and that 10.5G sheet can produce 6 75” WOLED panels where an 8.5G sheet can produce 6 55” WOLED panels.

You do the math 😉...

Last edited by fafrd; 11-18-2019 at 04:35 PM.
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post #16147 of 16184 Old 11-17-2019, 05:32 PM
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While I question the choice of the word ‘soar’ when we are talking about reaching production levels which are still less than 0.03% of the overall TV market by volume, ~doubling 77” WOLED panel production next year will translate to price levels which are 2/3 to 3/4 of this season’s levels (meaning we should see the 77C20 widely available for under $4000 next year and possibly breaking under $3000 in bargain online channels).
When you refer to 77C20 you're talking about the model that will be introduced next January at CES? Is it not going to be 77C10 or you're talking about the model introduced on Januray 2021? I guess the former from what you're writing about end of 2020 but do we know that they're going to jump from C9 to C20?

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post #16148 of 16184 Old 11-18-2019, 04:41 PM
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While I question the choice of the word ‘soar’️ when we are talking about reaching production levels which are still less than 0.03% of the overall TV market by volume, ~doubling 77â€Â WOLED panel production next year will translate to price levels which are 2/3 to 3/4 of this season’️s levels (meaning we should see the 77C20 widely available for under $4000 next year and possibly breaking under $3000 in bargain online channels).
When you refer to 77C20 you're talking about the model that will be introduced next January at CES? Is it not going to be 77C10 or you're talking about the model introduced on Januray 2021? I guess the former from what you're writing about end of 2020 but do we know that they're going to jump from C9 to C20?
LGE could call their 2020 WOLED TV lineup the C10 but I’m hoping their smarter than that.

Would you rather be purchasing a C13 or a C23 in 2023?

The only thing I’m reasonably certain of is that they are not going to loop around and introduce a C0, so they are likely going to expand from one digit to two.

Going for the ‘invisible 0’ approach makes them look like they’ve been planning their WOLED TV lineup to span decades since day 1 😉.
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post #16149 of 16184 Old 11-18-2019, 09:22 PM
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I'd be wary of mid-Aug info. Lots of plans likely got rethought with new CEO and major leadership changes since that was published.

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Looks like late 2020 will be the timeframe to get a (relative) bargain on a 77” WOLED: http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/news/...ml?idxno=34962

“Currently, the volume of 77-inch OLED panels produced at LG Display's Paju plant is not large. IHS Markets forecast that shipments of 77-inch OLED panels, which remained at only 27,000 units last year, soar to 60,000 units next year.”

The report states that the new plant in Guangzhou is only producing 55” and 65” panels this year, meaning 2019 will probably be a relatively ‘flat’ year as far as 77” WOLED production (30,000? 35,000?).

While I question the choice of the word ‘soar’ when we are talking about reaching production levels which are still less than 0.03% of the overall TV market by volume, ~doubling 77” WOLED panel production next year will translate to price levels which are 2/3 to 3/4 of this season’s levels (meaning we should see the 77C20 widely available for under $4000 next year and possibly breaking under $3000 in bargain online channels).
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post #16150 of 16184 Old 11-18-2019, 10:25 PM
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I'd be wary of mid-Aug info. Lots of plans likely got rethought with new CEO and major leadership changes since that was published.

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Looks like late 2020 will be the timeframe to get a (relative) bargain on a 77” WOLED: http://www.businesskorea.co.kr/news/...ml?idxno=34962

“Currently, the volume of 77-inch OLED panels produced at LG Display's Paju plant is not large. IHS Markets forecast that shipments of 77-inch OLED panels, which remained at only 27,000 units last year, soar to 60,000 units next year.”

The report states that the new plant in Guangzhou is only producing 55” and 65” panels this year, meaning 2019 will probably be a relatively ‘flat’️ year as far as 77” WOLED production (30,000? 35,000?).

While I question the choice of the word ‘soar’️ when we are talking about reaching production levels which are still less than 0.03% of the overall TV market by volume, ~doubling 77” WOLED panel production next year will translate to price levels which are 2/3 to 3/4 of this season’️s levels (meaning we should see the 77C20 widely available for under $4000 next year and possibly breaking under $3000 in bargain online channels).
Are you suggesting LGD may produce fewer than 60,000 77” WOLEDs next year?

Not likely - the 8.5G investments in Paju and Guangzhou are completed, do 2020 is pretty much locked-and-loaded.

And 60,000 is still a drop in the bucket for the 75/77” Premium TV Market - as long as LGD produces fewer than 1% of their WOLED panels at 75/77”, it’s difficult to argue that they are taking that segment seriously.

To your point, the second-phase capacity addition from 60,000/month to 90,000/month at Guangzhou planned for H2’20 may get delayed, as well as the ramp/investment schedule for the 10.5G line, so there is great uncertainty about ‘21, ‘22, and ‘23, but 6.5M WOLED panels in 2020 out of which 60,000 or <1% will be 77”? That seems like a pretty safe bet...
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Sharp unveils 30-inch rollable OLED TV

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With the LG Signature Series OLED R rollable TV still not out in the consumer market yet, Sharp has revealed it has been developing its own version in partnership with broadcaster NHK.
The Japanese firms recently unveiled their rival to LG’s CES 2019 debutant and will be demonstrating it at the Inter BEE 2019 international broadcaster show.

At only 30-inches in size, though still sporting a 4K resolution and 60Hz refresh rate, the Sharp rollable OLED might perhaps be a touch overshadowed by the 65-inch model LG had on show at CES 2019 in terms of pure dimensions but the OLED technology behind the screen offers advantages in other areas. The model on show is being described as a ‘prototype’ and ‘in development’.

The production process eschews the standard approach taken by LG Display in their manufacturing approach whereby the panel is made up of pixels that use four subpixels to produce the colours white, red, green and blue - hence LG Display’s WRGB OLED panels. Instead, Sharp has used a vapour deposition technique that creates an RGB pixel structure that produces red, green and blue directly, which according to Sharp, creates more vibrant colours since no colour filter is required. The screen itself is just 0.5mm thick and forms a tube with a diameter of 4cm when rolled up.

This RGB manufacturing approach allows Sharp to describe the screen as ‘the world’s largest colour filterless 4K display’ since LG’s process involves projecting the pixel’s self-emissive light through a filter to create the requisite colours.

There’s no word on when (or if) this concept will make it to the market and it could be that Sharp is waiting to see how consumers take to LG’s R9 rollable OLED, which is expected to be very expensive and will be seen as a premium product

With its smaller screen and compact case, Sharp could be aiming for the more affordable end of the TV market, perhaps with an eye on those whose living arrangements simply do not have the space for a 65-inch screen, such as those residents of flats and apartments.
https://www.avforums.com/news/sharp-...-oled-tv.16844

No white subpixel and color filters, would love if they could adapt the core oled technology to larger screens.
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post #16152 of 16184 Old 11-19-2019, 08:11 AM
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I just don't know, especially after the pronouncement last Jan by execs at a PR of "We are setting a formal direction to expand 77-inch sales this year." It certainly won't decrease. I think there's a very real dilemma for the wealthy urban segment in the US of simply not having the space for a 77", but wanting a premium product. Perhaps they're better served with say an 8K 65" with a premium form factor?

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Are you suggesting LGD may produce fewer than 60,000 77” WOLEDs next year?

Not likely - the 8.5G investments in Paju and Guangzhou are completed, do 2020 is pretty much locked-and-loaded.

And 60,000 is still a drop in the bucket for the 75/77” Premium TV Market - as long as LGD produces fewer than 1% of their WOLED panels at 75/77”, it’s difficult to argue that they are taking that segment seriously.

To your point, the second-phase capacity addition from 60,000/month to 90,000/month at Guangzhou planned for H2’20 may get delayed, as well as the ramp/investment schedule for the 10.5G line, so there is great uncertainty about ‘21, ‘22, and ‘23, but 6.5M WOLED panels in 2020 out of which 60,000 or <1% will be 77”? That seems like a pretty safe bet...
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post #16153 of 16184 Old 11-19-2019, 08:21 AM
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Two Presentations by LGD in Asia

I'm intrigued by these papers/presentations by LGD in a couple weeks time:

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Development of 88-inch 120Hz 8K OLED TV for Mass Production
*Koichi Miwa1, Hyun-Haeng Lee1, Seong-Eok Han1, Yong-Joon Heo1, Du-Hwan Oh1, Shin-Kyun Park1 (1. LG Display Co., Ltd. (Korea))

88-inch 8K OLED TV has been launched to the market. The display features 7680 x 4320 pixel resolution and 120Hz refresh rate. White OLED on Oxide TFT backplane architecture is applied as were in our 4K/2K OLED TV products. Design and driving features will be presented in this paper.
https://confit.atlas.jp/guide/event/...D2-1/classlist
What I find interesting is that this team of LGD presenters/researchers is quite different than the team(s) that presented on the development of the UHD panels. They certainly put an experienced team on the project (e.g., Koichi is a veteran with experience that dates back to Kodak) and I'm intrigued to see how this panel diverges from the UHD one.


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The study on new evaluation index of Color MPRT (Motion Picture Response Time) considering human sensitivity characteristic
In this study, we introduce a new evaluation index for color motion blur characteristic using Color MPRT (Motion Picture Response Time). We have already introduced the Color MPRT in SID 2019, and this study proposes a new evaluation index for C-MPRT based on the C-MPRT evaluation method. When humans see the display, Motion blur is a very important factor about image quality. In the past, we were considered only the luminance component when considering the motion blur characteristics of the display. However, when evaluating the performance of the display, the motion blur characteristic of the color is also an important factor.

https://confit.atlas.jp/guide/event/...VHFp1-1/detail
LGD continues to invest in motion x color research and I'd expect to see them begin to market around this in 2020.
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post #16154 of 16184 Old 11-19-2019, 01:45 PM
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I'm intrigued by these papers/presentations by LGD in a couple weeks time:

Quote:
Development of 88-inch 120Hz 8K OLED TV for Mass Production
*Koichi Miwa1, Hyun-Haeng Lee1, Seong-Eok Han1, Yong-Joon Heo1, Du-Hwan Oh1, Shin-Kyun Park1 (1. LG Display Co., Ltd. (Korea))

88-inch 8K OLED TV has been launched to the market. The display features 7680 x 4320 pixel resolution and 120Hz refresh rate. White OLED on Oxide TFT backplane architecture is applied as were in our 4K/2K OLED TV products. Design and driving features will be presented in this paper.
https://confit.atlas.jp/guide/event/...D2-1/classlist
If this is a true [email protected] refresh rate (a new random 8K image every 1/120th of a second) it probably means that they are describing a new 8K IGZO backplane being used in the Z20 (Or Z10, whatever next year’s model is called).

If it is only [email protected] Effective refresh rate (a new random 8K image every 1/60th of a second with the capability to insert black frames for 50% of the frame time @ 120Hz) then the paper will be describing the backplane used in the 88Z9...

Quote:
What I find interesting is that this team of LGD presenters/researchers is quite different than the team(s) that presented on the development of the UHD panels. They certainly put an experienced team on the project (e.g., Koichi is a veteran with experience that dates back to Kodak) and I'm intrigued to see how this panel diverges from the UHD one.


Quote:
The study on new evaluation index of Color MPRT (Motion Picture Response Time) considering human sensitivity characteristic
In this study, we introduce a new evaluation index for color motion blur characteristic using Color MPRT (Motion Picture Response Time). We have already introduced the Color MPRT in SID 2019, and this study proposes a new evaluation index for C-MPRT based on the C-MPRT evaluation method. When humans see the display, Motion blur is a very important factor about image quality. In the past, we were considered only the luminance component when considering the motion blur characteristics of the display. However, when evaluating the performance of the display, the motion blur characteristic of the color is also an important factor.

https://confit.atlas.jp/guide/event/...VHFp1-1/detail
LGD continues to invest in motion x color research and I'd expect to see them begin to market around this in 2020.
It’s great to see LG go on offense (perhaps for the first time, at least in TV). This year’s campaign of calling out Samsung 8K QLED for not delivering true 8K may have been the first sign that LG is starting to recognize that they are actually leading the TV display industry rather than their usual position of playing catch-up and ‘me too.’

This focus on ‘true 8K’ (versus the pseudo-8K that Samsung is peddling) as well as improved motion performance are likely the result of LG’s 2018 partnership with NHK: https://www.google.com/amp/m.koreahe...20181207000442

This white paper is a good read if you want to get a bead on NHK’s picture-quality priorities, their view of OLED versus LCD when it comes to motion performance / MPRT, and the directions they are likely collaborating with LG to push WOLED further: https://www.nhk.or.jp/strl/publica/b...ture0074-1.pdf
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post #16155 of 16184 Old 11-20-2019, 04:36 AM
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LGE could call their 2020 WOLED TV lineup the C10 but I’m hoping their smarter than that.

Would you rather be purchasing a C13 or a C23 in 2023?
That's a small stroke of genius, right there. I didn't think about it but it would make a lot of sense doing it that way.

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post #16156 of 16184 Old 11-20-2019, 05:13 AM
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This white paper is a good read if you want to get a bead on NHK’s picture-quality priorities, their view of OLED versus LCD when it comes to motion performance / MPRT, and the directions they are likely collaborating with LG to push WOLED further: https://www.nhk.or.jp/strl/publica/b...ture0074-1.pdf
An interesting read, thank you. It's peculiar how they praise Japan's role while managing to avoid the fact that on mobile screens Samsung dominates and on TV screens LG dominates. National pride, I guess.

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post #16157 of 16184 Old 11-24-2019, 08:37 AM
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I just want that rumored lg 48" oled panel so I can use it double duty as a tv and a monitor. I'm watching The Mandalorian (and soon the next season of the expanse) on my current monitor/tv, a 43" sony x800d, and the colors and contrast are nowhere near what I'd get from the standard oleds. They are already plenty bright for my usage, but I feel starved.

More than some new tech, more than top emission, more than just about anything, I just want to make sure lg actually releases the smaller oled so I can finally escape this smaller 4k display prison I am trapped in. With hdmi 2.1, and likely graphics cards getting those outputs sometime next year, the entire monitor market on the high end ought to be exploded for the trash heap it always was, gutter quality displays with ancient display tech, prices hiked up to the ceiling because of some base level higher refresh rates while the colors are muted trash and the contrast is a disaster? I hope that entire market gets burned to the ground once the tvs get an input that has the bandwidth needed for 120Hz 4k.
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post #16158 of 16184 Old 11-24-2019, 09:24 PM
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I just want that rumored lg 48" oled panel so I can use it double duty as a tv and a monitor. I'm watching The Mandalorian (and soon the next season of the expanse) on my current monitor/tv, a 43" sony x800d, and the colors and contrast are nowhere near what I'd get from the standard oleds. They are already plenty bright for my usage, but I feel starved.

More than some new tech, more than top emission, more than just about anything, I just want to make sure lg actually releases the smaller oled so I can finally escape this smaller 4k display prison I am trapped in. With hdmi 2.1, and likely graphics cards getting those outputs sometime next year, the entire monitor market on the high end ought to be exploded for the trash heap it always was, gutter quality displays with ancient display tech, prices hiked up to the ceiling because of some base level higher refresh rates while the colors are muted trash and the contrast is a disaster? I hope that entire market gets burned to the ground once the tvs get an input that has the bandwidth needed for 120Hz 4k.
Love the passion @Sammael !
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post #16159 of 16184 Old 11-25-2019, 07:35 AM
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Love the passion @Sammael !
He's 100% correct on the picture quality of gaming monitors, even something like the TCL 6 series destroys them at more than twice the screen size and a lower price. So LG does have a market there at lower screen sizes, though 48in is probably still too big for some for this, they would need one more size shrink after 48.
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post #16160 of 16184 Old 11-25-2019, 08:46 AM
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I'm as happy about lower prices as the next guy, but that isn't a top priority.

What I want is a 77" plus (88" would be much better) with great motion, great brightness and much diminished burn in concerns. No idea when that may occur. And I prefer Sony to LG, but I'm willing to buy an LG if necessary.
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post #16161 of 16184 Old 11-27-2019, 04:09 AM
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JOLED Starts Trial Production of Printed OLED Sheets at 5.5G Plant

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JOLED has started trial production of printed OLED substrates at its 5.5G plant at its Nomi Site, which was officially completed on Monday, November 25. The sheets will be used to make high-resolution mid-size OLED displays in 2020, when the factory starts mass production.

JOLED’s 5.5G facility has a monthly production capacity of 20,000 1,300×1,500-mm substrates, which are processed using the company’s own high-speed printing method. Based around batch EL layer formation, LOLED's process is said to greatly improve productivity, which the company hopes will eventually give them an edge in producing cheaper OLED panels.

JOLED started to build its 5.5G OLED plant in July 2018, and aims to start volume production at the facility in 2020. Right now, the factory is producing samples, which will be sent to JOLED’s customers. The plant is located near Nomi in Ishikawa Prefecture in Japan.

Having inherited the OLED operations of Sony and Panasonic, JOLED currently uses a 4.5G production line near Nomi to make its printed OLED screens. That fab is considerably smaller than the new one, which limits the development of the company’s business.
https://www.anandtech.com/show/15160...s-at-55g-plant
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post #16162 of 16184 Old 11-27-2019, 07:04 PM
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Any news on LG's next OLED TV?
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post #16163 of 16184 Old 11-28-2019, 12:35 AM
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Samsung develops method for self-emissive QLED

Samsung says its new method for making self-emissive quantum dot diodes extended their lifetime to a million hours, opening the way for commercialisation.


Samsung Electronics has developed a new method to extend the lifetime and efficiency of quantum dot light-emitting diodes (QLEDs) that may lead to their commercialisation, which has been published in the science journal Nature .

A team led by Dr. Eunjoo Jang, a Samsung fellow, and Dr. Yu-Ho Won, a principal researcher at Samsung Advanced Institute of Technology, improved the structure of the quantum dot made out of environmentally-friendly indium phosphide.

Their proposed structure prevents oxidation of the core and builds a symmetrical and thick shell around it to prevent energy leaks. The ligand on the shell surface has also been made shorter to allow it to absorb electric current faster.

Quantum efficiency improves by 21.4% and the lifetime of the diodes increased to a million hours, the South Korean tech giant said.

The company added that it has over 170 patents on element structure in QLEDs and will continue to develop new technology to lead in advanced displays.

A Samsung spokesman declined to comment on when the company will commercialise self-emissive QLED technology.

STILL A DISTANT FUTURE
Despite Samsung's announcement, the commercialisation of displays that uses quantum dot (QD) as the light source is still far away, and may never be realised at all as there are mountain of challenges ahead.

Research into using QD has focused on avoiding cadmium, which is the best material to use as a light source thanks to its malleability and integrity, but is harmful to humans.

Materials such as indium phosphide have so far failed to match the performance of cadmium when used as the direct light source in actual practice.

Samsung's current flagship TVs are called QLED, which does use QD that are cadmium-free. But they do not use QD as the light sources absorbs electricity directly. Rather, QD is used as a film on Liquid Crystal Display that emits luminance by absorbing the light from the backlight.

In October, Samsung Display announced that it will invest $11 billion by 2025 to produce QD Displays.

The production of the first iteration of this will begin in 2021, but will be QD-enabled OLED, which uses organic material as the light source and QD material as a film. It will be more similar to Samsung's own AMOLED used for mobile phones and LG's OLED TVs.

If Samsung's eventual goal is to launch a self-emissive QLED display, at minimum, the industry will have to wait until 2025 to see if it is indeed viable.

https://www.zdnet.com/article/samsun...emissive-qled/
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post #16164 of 16184 Old 11-28-2019, 12:43 AM
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Good luck. In the meantime, LG will just have more time to encroach in that sphere (along with LGD's partners) with lower prices.
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post #16165 of 16184 Old 11-28-2019, 09:28 PM
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No CES rumors yet? It's just a few weeks away. I'd like to buy OLED in 2020!
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post #16166 of 16184 Old 11-29-2019, 12:00 AM
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LG Display will expand its OLED display capacity for rollable TVs. It has been reported that it has made internal investment decisions and started preparations. By March next year, a supplier of transparent polyimide (PI) curing equipment will be selected. Vitron and Narae Nanotech are candidates. The lead time of the PI curing equipment will reach 6 months, and the equipment will be available in September next year.

LG Display's OLED panel for TV built in Paju, Gyeonggi-do, has 70,000 8G (2.2mx 2.5m) substrates. Rollable TV OLEDs have a transparent PI forming process in OLED TVs. Transparent PI curing equipment coats and cures transparent PI varnish on glass substrates. Narae Nanotech was the first to supply 8G transparent PI curing equipment. Transparent PI Substrate Forming Process Monthly production capacity reached 1000 sheets based on 8G substrate.

LG Display plans to increase the monthly production capacity of the transparent PI forming process to 10,000 units next year. The processing time of 8th generation transparent PI curing equipment is said to be about twice that of 6th generation opaque PI curing equipment for small and medium size flexible OLED. The same production capacity requires more equipment.


LG Electronics is planning to release 65-inch rollable TV at the end of this year by receiving panels of LG Display. An official of LG Display Research Institute said, "TV sales price is said to be 80 million won." Probably, competitors will be mostly exhausted for reverse engineering for technical analysis. "It's our job to lower the price to the average consumer."

Three 65-inch panels are produced on 8th generation boards. There are 3000 OLED panels for rollable TV that can be made at full operation with a monthly production capacity of 1000 sheets.

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OLED panels for rollable TVs and general OLED panels differ greatly from each other in terms of substrates, and other processes are similar, and the expansion of transparent PI substrate forming equipment leads to an increase in rollable TV production capacity. OLEDs for rollable TVs need to be flexible, so PI is used as a substrate.

https://translate.google.de/translat...3Fidxno%3D4021
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post #16167 of 16184 Old 11-29-2019, 11:30 PM
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$68k for a rollable 65" if the translation is correct.
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post #16168 of 16184 Old 11-30-2019, 01:08 AM
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$68k for a rollable 65" if the translation is correct.

In South Korea the prices are much higher. The 88Z9 costs 50 Mio Won ($42000).



If production with the new equipment ist stabilised and even if they can only make monthly 10000 panels at the end of the year, that results in much more than the currently planned 77" panels for 2020 (60000) in 2021. So prices will fall in 2021 if you compare it to the current street prices of 77" OLEDs with a much lower production rate.
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post #16169 of 16184 Old 11-30-2019, 02:18 AM
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Yes, I vaguely remember reading that concerning regional pricing differentials. Unfortunately, 65" is too tiny for my taste these days (thanks to being spoiled by the aforementioned 77" size). When the rollable monstrosity (88") arrives (starting no less than $100k in all probability), I'll finally see my replacement TV on the (distant) horizon.
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post #16170 of 16184 Old 11-30-2019, 10:05 AM
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i don't care about rollable, but an 88" OLED is something I am most interested in.
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