OLED TVs: Technology Advancements Thread - Page 551 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #16501 of 16528 Old 05-12-2020, 06:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiperco View Post
Then you don't understand the technology. It's LCD, with an LED backlight.
I do understand the technology. That article is not aimed at people who understand the technology. It's Popular Mechanics and they're geared for the (slightly above) average person. "LED TV" is the marketing term for LCD with LED backlight that those people will understand. Saves the author from having to explain that.
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post #16502 of 16528 Old 05-12-2020, 07:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avernar View Post
I do understand the technology. That article is not aimed at people who understand the technology. It's Popular Mechanics and they're geared for the (slightly above) average person. "LED TV" is the marketing term for LCD with LED backlight that those people will understand. Saves the author from having to explain that.
Popular Mechanics should know better. LED TV is an abomination of a term used by the industry to fool people that don't know better. Let's agree to disagree with the usage (and continued propagation) of the term.
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post #16503 of 16528 Old 05-12-2020, 07:42 AM
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Originally Posted by hiperco View Post
Popular Mechanics should know better. LED TV is an abomination of a term used by the industry to fool people that don't know better. Let's agree to disagree with the usage (and continued propagation) of the term.
I hate that marketing term as well, along with QLED, mini-LED and a whack of other misleading terms. I hate marketing departments in general. But when you're talking to Joe Sixpack you're kind of stuck using these marketing terms or you'll spend an inordinate amount of time explaining things. Happens all the time with computers.

My point is to ignore that stuff and just mine the nuggets, like copper being the advancement here. No need to "stop reading".
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post #16504 of 16528 Old 05-12-2020, 09:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiperco View Post
Then you don't understand the technology. It's LCD, with an LED backlight.
Actually there are quite a few technically incorrect but widely used terms floating around. And in most cases, their roots can be traced back to Scamsung's marketing department.
Now 3840 x 2160p is technically not 4K, it is UHD, but regardless people use 4K.
Yeah, a LCD is also not a LED , that is only the backlighting used, but regardless people say LED. I have a 2006 philips tv and by this flawed 'LED' logic, i could say that I own a philips CCFL.
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post #16505 of 16528 Old 05-13-2020, 10:25 PM
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New subpixel layout confirmed for the European 65CX6:





https://www.homecinemamagazine.nl/20...serie-oled-tv/


65C9

https://www.lesnumeriques.com/tv-tel...1559/test.html
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Last edited by ALMA; 05-14-2020 at 12:07 AM.
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post #16506 of 16528 Old 05-17-2020, 11:15 AM
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Pixel and Subpixel Spacing and Sizing Talk

Hey folks,

I did some pixel peeping of the Rtings.com photos they provide in their reviews. I did visual diffs (in a Mac app that also does textual diffs) of those photos comparing C9 and CX at 55". Outputs from the diff tool enclosed.

The 1st photo (which is using transparency) shows that there's ostensibly an aperture difference between model years at the same 55" size.

The second photo is simply showing that the RWB pixels are the same shape and size.

@mike123abc made a good point in the CX owners thread that perhaps the reason is that it's to be able to use that same pixel/subpixel structure for the new (not yet shipping) 48".

Additionally it dawned on me that a full pixel is RWBG and the only way to get the size of the pixel (and thus the spacing between the pixels in the horizontal direction) is to composite in an adjacent green subpixel. I haven't done that for either model year.

All that said, my Q is, when the pixel spacing changes for a given model (and the subpixel sizes stay the same), do they simply have a smaller/large panel by the same % amount?

TIA.
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post #16507 of 16528 Old 05-18-2020, 10:13 PM
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Linus and Team on Quantum Dots

These guys do a really credible job tackling complex tech like Quantum Dots for displays. Includes QD-OLED coverage.

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post #16508 of 16528 Old 05-19-2020, 02:32 AM
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Originally Posted by wco81 View Post
Really, no DTS and slower HDMI?
No, not really. The speed of the signals going into the HDMI ports is still roughly ~90% of the speed of light. LG doesn't have the capability to make the HDMI signals travel at different speeds to last year. HTH HAND

ps. ITYM bandwidth, not speed.
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post #16509 of 16528 Old 05-19-2020, 07:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stl8k View Post
Hey folks,

I did some pixel peeping of the Rtings.com photos they provide in their reviews. I did visual diffs (in a Mac app that also does textual diffs) of those photos comparing C9 and CX at 55". Outputs from the diff tool enclosed.

The 1st photo (which is using transparency) shows that there's ostensibly an aperture difference between model years at the same 55" size.

The second photo is simply showing that the RWB pixels are the same shape and size.

@mike123abc made a good point in the CX owners thread that perhaps the reason is that it's to be able to use that same pixel/subpixel structure for the new (not yet shipping) 48".

Additionally it dawned on me that a full pixel is RWBG and the only way to get the size of the pixel (and thus the spacing between the pixels in the horizontal direction) is to composite in an adjacent green subpixel. I haven't done that for either model year.

All that said, my Q is, when the pixel spacing changes for a given model (and the subpixel sizes stay the same), do they simply have a smaller/large panel by the same % amount?

TIA.
Adam at rtings.com confirmed what I suspected after thinking about this more:

Quote:
This is most likely just due to a slightly different position of the camera. The panels and subpixels are identical between the C9 and CX.
I followed up to see if they have a shot of the CX's green subpixel.

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post #16510 of 16528 Old 05-20-2020, 07:33 AM
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@stl8k


The 55CX in the rtings review has the same panel than the 55C9 but the 65CX has a different panel than the 65C9 but the same as the 55CX. That means in 2019 55C9 and 65C9 were different and in 2020 55CX and 65CX are now equal.

Last edited by ALMA; 05-20-2020 at 07:44 AM.
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post #16511 of 16528 Old 05-20-2020, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALMA View Post
@stl8k


The 55CX in the rtings review has the same panel than the 55C9 but the 65CX has a different panel than the 65C9 but the same as the 55CX. That means in 2019 55C9 and 65C9 were different and in 2020 55CX and 65CX are now equal.
Wild, how did you determine?
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post #16512 of 16528 Old 05-20-2020, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ALMA View Post
@stl8k


The 55CX in the rtings review has the same panel than the 55C9 but the 65CX has a different panel than the 65C9 but the same as the 55CX. That means in 2019 55C9 and 65C9 were different and in 2020 55CX and 65CX are now equal.
My 55CX is not the same as my 55C9.
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post #16513 of 16528 Old 05-20-2020, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by D-Nice View Post
My 55CX is not the same as my 55C9.
@dnice , nice to see you over in advanced OLED land!

Same from a pixel size, spacing perspective (ie, things we can see with a camera/consumer microscope).
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post #16514 of 16528 Old 05-20-2020, 05:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stl8k View Post
@dnice , nice to see you over in advanced OLED land!

Same from a pixel size, spacing perspective (ie, things we can see with a camera/consumer microscope).
Similar subpixel size. But the shapes are slightly different.
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post #16515 of 16528 Old 05-21-2020, 12:45 AM
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From rtings:



55CX


red
https://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/...xels-large.jpg

green subpixels
https://www.rtings.com/images/review...-alt-large.jpg

55C9


red
https://i.rtings.com/images/reviews/...xels-large.jpg


green subpixels
https://www.rtings.com/images/review...-alt-large.jpg

Subpixel layout 65" in 2019:

65C9 from lesnumeriques.fr
https://dyw7ncnq1en5l.cloudfront.net...ix2-lg-c9.webp

Panasonic GZ950 from lesnumeriques.fr
https://dyw7ncnq1en5l.cloudfront.net...ure__w800.webp

Subpixel layout 65" in 2020:

65CX6 from homecinemamagazine.nl
https://www.homecinemamagazine.nl/[email protected]


In 2016/17 LGD had 3 different panel layouts.

Last edited by ALMA; 05-21-2020 at 12:49 AM.
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Samsung and LG Agree to End the QLED War


The incessant bickering between Samsung Electronics and LG Electronics over QLED HDTVs has come to an abrupt halt after the two Korean tech giants told the Fair Trade Commission to stop further investigations.

The two longtime archrivals told the FTC that they would immediately discontinue any smear campaigns against each other, and only place more emphasis on improving the quality of their own respective products.

In the cutthroat global premium TV market, both Samsung and LG have claimed to possess top-notch systems to give their TV panels unrivaled clarity and depth. LG’s go-to panel in recent years has been OLEDs, while Samsung has heavily advertised its next-gen technology of QLEDs.

Relations between the two companies soured even more during a press conference in September last year, when LG began to claim that Samsung’s highly regarded QLED display isn’t really QLED at all.

LG said that according to some engineers and tech experts, a “true” QLED panel should utilize quantum dots that emit their own light, jettisoning the need for backlighting, which Samsung’s QLED TVs use.

Essentially, according to LG, Samsung continues to flaunt the fancy name despite the products basically being LCD TVs enhanced with quantum dots, which are microscopic particles that when hit by light, emit a certain different colored light.

LG later irked Samsung further by reporting the company to the FTC for misleading consumers.

The FTC eventually concluded that QLED TVs, including those manufactured by Samsung, can in fact be considered to possess self-emitting displays, according to a statement.

Continued at https://nationalinterest.org/blog/te...led-war-162670
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post #16517 of 16528 Old 06-13-2020, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by dfa973 View Post
Thanks for that. From reading the article, it seems that LG has agreed to stop telling the truth about the QLEDs (that they are not self-emitting).
Also Samsung has agreed to confess that there's a backlight on their QLEDs and say so in marketing.

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post #16518 of 16528 Old 06-13-2020, 09:35 AM
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https://koreajoongangdaily.joins.com...183000169.html


The source article has conflicting statements:




"The FTC ruled that Samsung must make it clear that their QLED TVs have a backlight in their advertisements."


“We were able to ease concerns of Samsung misleading consumers, as the company will not have to clearly state in its various advertisement that its QLED TVs use a backlight,” said Gu Seong-rim, a manager at the consumer safety and information division at the FTC.

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post #16519 of 16528 Old 06-13-2020, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bryantc View Post
The source article has conflicting statements:

"The FTC ruled that Samsung must make it clear that their QLED TVs have a backlight in their advertisements."

“We were able to ease concerns of Samsung misleading consumers, as the company will not have to clearly state in its various advertisement that its QLED TVs use a backlight,” said Gu Seong-rim, a manager at the consumer safety and information division at the FTC.
Might be a typo. The not probably should have been a now.

EDIT: Changed type to typo.
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post #16520 of 16528 Old 06-13-2020, 04:59 PM
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“Both Samsung QLED TV and LG OLED TV are self-emissive TVs in a broad sense,” the FTC said.
However, the agency advised Samsung to provide consumers with a clear notice that QLED TVs have backlights in all kinds of commercial advertisements.
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post #16521 of 16528 Old 06-20-2020, 05:39 AM
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LG showcases transparent OLED display technology at InfoComm 2020

LG Electronics has just showcased certain new display technologies at the InfoComm 2020 event. The conference that took place from 16th to 18t June had the South Korean tech giant reveal new LG LED Cinema Display and a transparent OLED touch display.

The LG LED Cinema Display utilizes high brightness LED modules for movie screens at theaters. This technology is said to offer a more uniform movie screen that is less susceptible to distortions when compared to their digital projector counterparts. The company has already supplied this type of large display to a Taiwanese cinema chain called Showtime Cinema.

Furthermore, LG also unveiled its new transparent OLED touch screen, which has a transmittance of 38 percent and its possible applications have been aimed at commercial spheres like airports, museums, and even stores. Notably, multiple such transparent displays can be attached side by side, with the technology already being utilized by a store run by Top Golf.

More at https://www.gizmochina.com/2020/06/1...infocomm-2020/
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post #16522 of 16528 Old 06-20-2020, 05:40 AM
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TCL invests $187 million in JOLED, to jointly-develop OLED TV inkjet printing technologies

JOLED announced that TCL CSoT has invested 20 billion Yen (around $187 million USD) in the company, and has also signed an agreement to jointly develop OLED TV printing technologies.

This is a very interesting development. TCL has been a long time believer in inkjet printing for OLED displays, and the company has established Juhua Printing in 2016 (together with TianMa and other collaborators) as an "open-innovation platform" to develop ink-jet printing of OLED panels. JOLED was not involved as far as we know in this alliance - so has TCL given up on Juhua and is now aiming to rely on JOLED's technology?

JOLED has been focused on medium-sized displays (for monitors, automotive and signage), and in December 2018 JOLED demonstrated its first OLED TV prototype, a 55" 4K (3840x2160, 80 PPI) panel that offers a 120Hz refresh rate and a color gamut of 100% DCI (135% sRGB). The OLED panel was printed on JOLED's Transparent Amorphous Oxide Semiconductor (TAOS) backplane. In 2018 JOLED told us that it has no plans to produce large size OLEDs at this stage - and this TV is on display just to demonstrate JOLED's printing technology, but now obviously this has changed.

More at https://www.oled-info.com/tcl-invest...nkjet-printing
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post #16523 of 16528 Old 06-22-2020, 04:34 PM
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Curious, I'm having my B6 panel replaced likely this week. Wanted to take a picture of the sub pixel structure. Is this possible with a "regular" camera (I have a Nikon P7100 that has a Macro setting).

Also, what field does one put up on the display? A 100IRE screen sort of thing?

 

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post #16524 of 16528 Old 06-29-2020, 10:03 PM
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Lightbulb Investment in LCD TVs dry up. OLED Investment to surge.

Quote:
Originally Posted by -diVe- View Post
Quote: Originally Posted by nnarum23

OLED is becoming SED...


OLED is a proven technology. For example, OLED products actually exist in the marketplace to be purchased. SED was never brought to the market. The future of TVs will be Plasma vs. OLED. LCDs will be phased out like CRTs.
I know it's an old post but I am glad to report that the demise of LCD has been forecasted and may be a positive development for OLED.

Investment into LCD to dry up by 2022, says IHS Markit | FlatpanelsHD
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post #16525 of 16528 Old 07-08-2020, 04:13 PM
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Gen 10 Paju Plant delayed to 2025-2026

Looks like the economic impact of Covid is decreasing OLED sales for this year, causing another delay to the Paju plant:

https://www.techradar.com/news/lgs-m...ayed-yet-again

At least one other place I saw is saying this is actually an indefinite delay, and that LG will provide more info on their next quaterly conference call. I wonder what effect this will have on OLED tv prices, bad financials and lower demand due to the bad Covid economy may mean prices don't go down like they originally intended to, since they might not be as willing to trade lower margins for market share.

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post #16526 of 16528 Old 07-08-2020, 06:34 PM
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post #16527 of 16528 Old 07-09-2020, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rysa_105 View Post
Actually there are quite a few technically incorrect but widely used terms floating around. And in most cases, their roots can be traced back to Scamsung's marketing department.
Now 3840 x 2160p is technically not 4K, it is UHD, but regardless people use 4K.
Yeah, a LCD is also not a LED , that is only the backlighting used, but regardless people say LED. I have a 2006 philips tv and by this flawed 'LED' logic, i could say that I own a philips CCFL.

I think the term LED TV should be reserved for emissive (micro) LED TVs.
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post #16528 of 16528 Old 07-09-2020, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by taichi4 View Post
I think the term LED TV should be reserved for emissive (micro) LED TVs.
In an ideal world, yes.

And the LCD TV of the past should be called LCD-CCFL TVs...
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