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post #31 of 213 Old 04-17-2015, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
That's a really tricky one. First, I'm not sure the Cinema 10 will give you more output. It might, but we're talking 3db or so. I guess if you're really maxing out the Chrap Thrills... Just doesn't seem like a good reason to change. If there's other reasons (size, fun, etc.) then by all means. For the center, yikes. I guess the 88 would be my second suggestion or if you could use a cheap thrills to try. There's no good answer for that if the 1099 is out. Maybe asking someone to make the XO for you??

ahhh, so it won't be more output... but but but. I still NEED To!!! for reasons .... that and I need to build more speakers, I've had these for almost 2 years... that's unacceptable


yeah, that's what I was afraid of for the center.... the 88 special would be the best bet IMO, but I was hoping there was something else out there that I was missing. well thanks for the advice.
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post #32 of 213 Old 04-17-2015, 10:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jk7.2 View Post
No I don't need a horizontal center. But three cinema 10's then. How would they compare to 1099's side by side? Would it just be a matter of more punch in the mid range?
Basically, more clarity in the midrange on the 1099, but more laid back / full with the Cinema 10. Very subtle differences though.
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post #33 of 213 Old 04-18-2015, 07:45 AM
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Thanks for the help.
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post #34 of 213 Old 04-20-2015, 08:34 PM
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This may not be exactly a "which speaker to choose" question, but more a general question about DIYSG / waveguide speakers. I'm currently shopping houses with bonus rooms that I plan to convert into a dedicated theater. They're all 16-18 feet wide by 25-28 ft. deep. The plan is to build a partition wall across the front, 3' off the "real wall" and use that as an IB cavity. Then I was hoping to put the L/C/R speakers in/on that wall behind an AT screen.

All along I'd been planning for a straight wall, as shown in the first graphic. I didn't want to try to wall-mount my floorstanders so I was thinking of building a recess/cubby/shelf/etc. into the partition wall to hold them. As close to flush as possible would be the idea. That seemed complicated though, building a "box" in the wall to fit the existing speakers, and I didn't want to go with expensive in-walls, so I started looking for DIY speakers that might be able to be built into the wall directly. That's how I came across DIYSG.

I really like several of the designs, and was thinking since the only ports are on the front I should be able to build most any of the designs flush into the front partition wall, no? Just screw the flat pack box into the framing, with some isolation perhaps, and drywall around it? That said, the more I researched, I read the "Setup of WG speakers" paper and others, and I realize now that to really take advantage of these speakers I should toe them in at 45 degrees, basically creating a wall that's angled on the sides, like the second picture?

So I guess I have the following questions:
1.) Would I be OK building a DIYSG design flush into a wall like this? Say something like a Fusion 10 Pure per front channel as an example? Or I also like the 88 Special? I don't need massive woofers in the mains since the IB will be 4x18" for LFE. I'd go with 8" or even 6" woofers in the mains if it had as good/better of a tweeter/compression driver. As long as it can fill in the mids without sounding weak...
2.) Assuming building in-wall is OK, would I really have to toe in the L/R at 45 degrees as per the 2nd graphic? My mains today (Infinity Alpha 50's) are fine in my opinion without toe in. My understanding is that the waveguides can simply "take advantage" of toe in where other speaker types can't (or not as well), but will the waveguides sound "bad" without the toe in? Obviously if I'm building the wall I want to build it right, but is it worth the trouble? It would mean the L/R wouldn't be behind the AT screen either, and the screen would have to be a little smaller...
3.) Would I be better off with a non-waveguide style speaker and just building a more "normal" speaker into a straight front wall, or is the waveguide + toe in a great advantage? Assuming ~90% movie usage. I do enjoy listening to music, but even if music were twice as good the main usage will be home cinema...

Thank you all for your consideration!
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post #35 of 213 Old 09-28-2015, 05:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
The 10 will have a larger "waveguide" being the cone is the waveguide. If you have off axis seating the 8 might be an advantage.
You said that the 10 has the larger cone and therefore waveguide, but that off-axis seating might have an advantage using the 8. By this, do you mean that the Volt 6 would have even better off-axis performance?

I thought that the larger waveguide would provide a wider area of dispersion, which would then be able to better reach the off-axis positions better than a smaller one. Am I completely off there?
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post #36 of 213 Old 09-28-2015, 09:24 PM
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The larger waveguide/cone holds directivity lower. The smaller has a wider dispersion.

It's not intuitive. If you want directivity to low frequencies you need big. Smaller is goes wider at a higher frequency.
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post #37 of 213 Old 09-29-2015, 08:56 AM
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Would the 1099 LCR be enough for a 20' by 25' dedicated space?

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post #38 of 213 Old 09-29-2015, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rfbrang View Post
Would the 1099 LCR be enough for a 20' by 25' dedicated space?
I'm not the right person necessarily to answer, but you won't find a lot of 99 db sensitivity speakers out there...

In other words, if these can't do it, you are in a different class (JBL 4722 maybe? at 104 db sensitivity..)
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post #39 of 213 Old 09-29-2015, 01:50 PM
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They'll be fine. There aren't to many personal HTs that the 1099 isn't comfortable in.
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post #40 of 213 Old 09-29-2015, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
The larger waveguide/cone holds directivity lower. The smaller has a wider dispersion.

It's not intuitive. If you want directivity to low frequencies you need big. Smaller is goes wider at a higher frequency.
Ok, thanks. In that case, I'll be looking at the Volt 6 or 8 for my surrounds. Will either of those pair well with three 1099s up front?
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post #41 of 213 Old 09-29-2015, 04:28 PM
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They'll both pair up well I'm sure. Just to be clear, directivity is usually a good thing. You'd only want the smaller (less directional) speaker if you have seats very close and off axis. Sometimes I don't make good sense
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post #42 of 213 Old 09-29-2015, 04:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
They'll both pair up well I'm sure. Just to be clear, directivity is usually a good thing. You'd only want the smaller (less directional) speaker if you have seats very close and off axis. Sometimes I don't make good sense
Alright, that makes sense. I actually only have one seat out of two rows that will be somewhat off-axis from the right surround speaker. Perhaps I'll just plan for better sound in all of the other seats.
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post #43 of 213 Old 09-30-2015, 09:25 AM
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I've attached a picture of my room. The only parts that are missing are that the ceiling is about 8 ft and the couch is actually about 1.5 ft off the wall. I'm in the middle of building a sealed HT18. There will be a second sub behind the couch (Some kind of SVS cylinder, sb-1000 or sb-2000). The first sub will be either a stand for the center or just somewhere between the LCR. Right now it's in a corner, but it's near the radiator. Anyway, I am limited by my screen and room size to somewhere around maybe 36" tall speakers since they'll have to be under the screen.. Sitting down though my ears are at about 40", but my fiance is at probably about 35 +/-. The couches are parallel to the screen but sometimes people will sit with their backs to the windows when we have more people open. I can go taller if the width does not exceed 7". Speakers that can go close to the wall are better since I'm only going to be about 8' back from them.

We really like the sounds of Maggies (if that helps guide you) and will probably get a pair for the room or the basement. I really want the speakers to be clear at low volumes. I enjoy speakers that will give you a bit of a punch or kick, which is not much like a Magnepan, but as I said, we may have a second pair for music, but I'd like something that would work well in case we don't. We are all over the place in terms of genre, but probably lean toward rock.

I am open to anything, but I feel like the 88 special or the 893 may work well for us. I am nervous about the 893 though since it has not been generally tested. I'm not really sure how any of the Fusions would sound different or what kind of impact the larger woofer has. Could someone explain. Thanks in advance.
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post #44 of 213 Old 10-21-2015, 07:21 AM
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Ordering 4 different sets of DIYSG speakers - advice please.

Life's been pretty good, so after salivating on DIYSG website and here on AVS for a year plus, please help with input in buying in the next 30 days:

I need speakers for:

a) Large Barn (around 100ft x 70 ft) - four stories high and divided into two floors presently with multiple areas for a garage/calving area/ milking areas etc. Its animal free and very clean so I want music to fill the thing as I convert it into a wood working space and garage.

b) Office speakers: near field, I have a penchant for crystal clear clarity and presence

c) Kitchen speakers: large farm house kitchen opening onto the living room (large) - space to install four anarchy sub's for example into the kitchen design. My wife just likes music, no need for head banging chest thumping because I also have two babies and another baby half way there. Considering Classix II with some anarchy subs?

d) 1899's x 3 for LCR duties for the HT (no advice needed with that). I'll need surrounds and perhaps an Atmos or two suggestion please. (Volt 10LX until @tuxedocivic commented on BCRRS thread today). Sub's too please. I'm thinking of LowarHorn for the subs as it could act as a nice sofa table when not doing active duty.

e) Requisite amps/ AVR's for each. Please?


MANY MANY MANY THANKS!
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post #45 of 213 Old 10-22-2015, 06:10 AM
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New Speakers for a New Room

Hey everyone -thanks for your help on this.

Room Info - I just had to downgrade in size with a move back to Cincinnati. Here is a shot of the room. As you can see the space is pretty limited.


Current Speakers & Power - I was running a set of OS MTMs as the mains and the OS CC for the center channel. I had some generic HTIB speakers as surrounds. I can't remember the model number of my receiver (sitting in a moving box) but it 7.1 and capable of 130 watts at 6 ohms.

Listening Usage - I have a pretty even balance between games, movies, and TV (Netflix). I have other spaces where I do most of my music listening. I just moved out of an apartment after 3 years and I to turn up the volume.

Size Constraints - As you can see the room is pretty small and I am having to flank a screen near a door opening. So I don't have a lot of room to deal with but this space won't be permanent, so I won't mind it being a little cramped for a while.

DIY Capabilities - Full range of tools and capabilities at my disposal. I don't need flat packs. I know how to resize a cabinet and maintain internal volume, which might help me squeeze something bigger in my space.

Budget - Im looking to replace the LCR and trying to be in the ball park of $500 total. I know this doesn't leave me a lot of options but I can wiggle above that if I space out some purchases.

Reason for Upgrade - I love to build speakers! I got the bug a while ago and I wanted to step up my game with the house, now that I can turn up the volume.

Future plans - I plan to be in this space for 6 months to a year so I want to think about future spaces as well. Wife and I will probably start a family not long after a move, so I have to make sure I get my toys now.
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post #46 of 213 Old 10-22-2015, 08:04 AM
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I would vote for 3 Volt 10LX's or two Fusion 8's and a Cinema 8 center.

the advantage of the Volts is that they could become your surrounds should you want to go bigger after you move.

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post #47 of 213 Old 10-22-2015, 08:06 AM
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you could also get the slanted Volts and put them above the screen at the ceiling so they are out of the way of that door.

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post #48 of 213 Old 10-22-2015, 09:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxposure View Post
Hey everyone -thanks for your help on this.

Room Info - I just had to downgrade in size with a move back to Cincinnati. Here is a shot of the room. As you can see the space is pretty limited.
Where in Cincinnati?

The Volt-6 will easily work for surrounds in that room and still give you plenty of output.

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post #49 of 213 Old 10-22-2015, 10:16 AM
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Where in Cincinnati?

The Volt-6 will easily work for surrounds in that room and still give you plenty of output.
I'm one of those awful Kentuckians, who say I live in Cincinnati. But I actually live right on the river in Covington- Not a long walk from the ball park. Once I had my order ready I was going to PM you and see if it was just easier to schedule a pickup rather than have you go through the trouble of packing and shipping.

I had thought about the volts as surrounds but I wasn't sure if it was worth it as I would have to mount them high and right at 90 degrees from the listener. I'm willing to have my mind changed.

Any thoughts on the LCR? I was thinking about the fusion 8s and matching center but brian intrigued my with the suggestions of the Volts up front.
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post #50 of 213 Old 10-26-2015, 09:14 AM
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Here's my second attempt at some advice from the guru's that be:

Its a very fancy word document showing some incredibly detailed and professional diagrams of the four spaces I'd like to musicify and home theatrefy.

1) Kitchen - music
2) Great Room/ Living Room - theatre - 1899's are a lock in....
3) Office - music
4) Large Barn - music


To take this in steps - can I get some feedback on my speaker suggestions for each space? Pretty Please.

Thanks thanks thanks thanks thanks thanks -


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post #51 of 213 Old 10-26-2015, 10:54 AM
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George, those are some unusual places haha.

I don't think your current selection is a bad one. It really comes down to what fits into each of those places without being in the way.

For the barn, do they need to be weather resistent?
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post #52 of 213 Old 10-26-2015, 01:47 PM
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No doubt mate. I think my architectural style drawings may be a little confusing though.....

No requirement to be weather resistant in the barn, but I am wondering... how does -25degC ambient (lowest possible cold where we are) affect speakers/amps?



Also - do you have any suggestions on amps/ receivers (etc) for the above Tux?
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post #53 of 213 Old 10-26-2015, 02:56 PM
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i wonder what the look on my wifes face would be if I tried to put a couple anarchy horns in the kitchen!!

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post #54 of 213 Old 10-29-2015, 10:03 PM
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For kitchen/LR and family room?

Hi
I have two rooms whose speakers I'm trying to upgrade: an open plan kitchen/living room and a family room space.

A. Open plan kitchen/LR.
1. Room size:
42 x 12 x 8.75'H.
Hardwood floors, no rug yet. Kitchen consists of a large island, faced with a bank of cabs, sink/window, fridge along one wall.

2. How/what we listen to:
Mainly background while doing other things- cooking, eating, hanging out.
All kinds of music: musicals, classical, jazz, rock, bollywood, acoustic, pop, podcasts

3. Current speakers
Polk R15 bookshelf speakers, placed on an upper kitchen cabinet that's 11" from the ceiling, up to 24" from the wall. This is roughly in the middle of the one of the long walls of the room. Unlikely we'll be able to place speakers elsewhere, with young child running about. Hardwood floors.

I just ordered some OSs to dip my toe into DIY and possibly replace these Polks.

4. Amp and sources:
Currently Apple Express modem streaming iMac (iTunes)/iPhone to a Dayton DTA-1 chip amp. Open to upgrading the amp.

B. Downstairs family room
1. Room size:

19.75' x 11.5' x 8' H

Hardwood floors; no rug yet. Still need to get a couch for it.

2. How/what we listen to:
I aspire the space to be for more active, critical listening, but it's likely it'll be more used for watching movies on a 27" iMac (which we plan to replace with a larger monitor/display as we further develop this room). Music is more important than HT, which we don't plan to do, as of today, at least. We have our upright piano here too; book shelves, play space, etc.

3. Current speakers:
Cambridge Soundworks New Ensemble III, 2.1.

4. Amp and sources:
Vintage Marantz 2235 receiver, just a little past the prime of its life.
Source: iMac hardwired into Aux; cheapie Sony Discman and TT.

Other listening experience:
We went to a high end audio store nearby and were impressed with some Paradigm Prestige 75F ($3K/pr) towers. But not immediately- we thought it wasn't that much better, say, than our car stereo (stock, nothing fancy). Only when we played some Stevie Wonder did we feel the music in our bodies and felt quite engaged by it.

Family Acceptance Factor (FAF): medium-high. For instance, I like how low the Fusion 12s go and how sensitive they are (spec-wise, i.e., as I've never laid ears on them), but until we move to a bigger house (i.e., out of the San Francisco Bay Area), smaller footprint is better. The Fusion 4 seems interesting in this regard.

Woodworker, I so am not. I'm more than willing to try the flatpacks, but this will be a very spartan build.

Budget for both: $500-$3000 say.

Any suggestions welcome.
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post #55 of 213 Old 10-31-2015, 03:43 PM
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Hi lonepine. Not sure what to tell you. Fusion 4 is probably a good fit for you if that's the way you're leaning.

Will you be using subs or multi channel?? If you DON'T plan on subs and can accomadate the size, a pair of Maximus 12 might be a good fit for you.
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post #56 of 213 Old 10-31-2015, 09:03 PM
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Hey guys. I think this is an awesome thread. I did post in the DIY section a while ago regarding subs but I figured I could lay down my whole plan and see what you guys think.

Room - I'm going to partition off a section of my upstairs loft for a dedicated HT. The room will be 15' x 10.5' x 8' when finished. Being roughly 1,200 cubic ft. A little small I know. but all mine.

Listening Habits - The room will be for 95% movies, 5% video games and music for demo purposes only. I want to be able to reach reference levels cleanly when wanted, but typical listening volumes for movies and games would be about -10 on MV.

Current Gear - I currently have Polk audio RtiA9's, CsiA6, RtiA3's, F/XiA6's with a Powersoundaudio xs30se. I'm using an Onkyo TX-NR929 for my AVR with a QSC GX5 to power my mains. I only have the A9's and sub setup for music since my are isn't built. The polks are really nice speakers, but i'm looking for more efficient, more dynamic speakers for HT. I will be selling almost all my gear to fund my DIY setup.

Current Plan - I plan to keep my Onkyo AVR and build 3 893's for my LCR. I would need one horizontal as I don't really have the room for an AT screen. With volt 6's for my rears, surround backs and front heights. Along with at least 2 ultimax 18-22's in 4cu ft flat-packs powered by an Inuke6000DSP. Possibly going to 4 later on with a 2nd Inuke for a 9.2/ 9.4 setup. I had originally planned on the cinema 8's or 10's, then the 893's were announced and really caught my eye.

I have a couple pics of my attempt at creating my idea in sketchup. I'ts nothing special but does reflect actual room, speaker and sub size. The couches and screen where just winged.. or wung.. .. It was only my 4th time ever using sketch up when I created it. but it also shows the framing of the wall I will be putting it in.

Any ideas, suggestions, comments or What Would You Do's are more than welcome.
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post #57 of 213 Old 10-31-2015, 11:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
Hi lonepine. Not sure what to tell you. Fusion 4 is probably a good fit for you if that's the way you're leaning.

Will you be using subs or multi channel?? If you DON'T plan on subs and can accomadate the size, a pair of Maximus 12 might be a good fit for you.
Thanks tuxedocivic. Sounds like you're saying the Fusion 4 works best with a sub. I wasn't exactly planning on a sub, but am open to it. Not sure about multi-channel- just stereo for now. I don't see having many speakers all over the place at the moment.
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post #58 of 213 Old 10-31-2015, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
Hi lonepine. Not sure what to tell you. Fusion 4 is probably a good fit for you if that's the way you're leaning.

Will you be using subs or multi channel?? If you DON'T plan on subs and can accomadate the size, a pair of Maximus 12 might be a good fit for you.
Thanks tuxedocivic. Sounds like you're saying the Fusion 4 works best with a sub. I wasn't exactly planning on a sub, but am open to it. Not sure about multi-channel- just stereo for now. I don't see having many speakers all over the place at the moment.
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post #59 of 213 Old 11-02-2015, 05:42 AM
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Hi looking for some suggestions for my build. I'm thinking of going with a 7.1 layout but am really unsure of where to place the side surrounds and which to use. I was thinking of the 88 specials FLC behind the screen then volt 6 for all 4 surround. The room is 21 from screen to back wall and 37 wide. I was thinking of putting the sides in the two columns adjacent to the couch but am concerned it may be too close. Could put them on the outer walls but that may be too far away. What are your thoughts.




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post #60 of 213 Old 11-02-2015, 10:56 AM
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Current Plan - I plan to keep my Onkyo AVR and build 3 893's for my LCR. I would need one horizontal as I don't really have the room for an AT screen. With volt 6's for my rears, surround backs and front heights. Along with at least 2 ultimax 18-22's in 4cu ft flat-packs powered by an Inuke6000DSP. Possibly going to 4 later on with a 2nd Inuke for a 9.2/ 9.4 setup. I had originally planned on the cinema 8's or 10's, then the 893's were announced and really caught my eye.
If you need a center, that seems like a good idea. If you had the room, 1099s, or Cinema 10s flanking a 1099 center would provide a bit more effeciency. But the 893 will gladly do reference levels in that room so no sweat if size is king.

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Originally Posted by Dbaudo1 View Post
Hi looking for some suggestions for my build. I'm thinking of going with a 7.1 layout but am really unsure of where to place the side surrounds and which to use. I was thinking of the 88 specials FLC behind the screen then volt 6 for all 4 surround. The room is 21 from screen to back wall and 37 wide. I was thinking of putting the sides in the two columns adjacent to the couch but am concerned it may be too close. Could put them on the outer walls but that may be too far away. What are your thoughts.
Tricky spot. I have a similar situation. Can you hang them from the ceiling or maybe ceiling mount?
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