Get Help Picking the Right DIY Sound Group Speakers. - Page 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
Forum Jump: 
 24Likes
 
Thread Tools
post #151 of 213 Old 02-03-2016, 09:38 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
BCRSS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: TX
Posts: 1,139
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 491 Post(s)
Liked: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by JustBusiness View Post
Thanks for the advice. I've been trying to go separates for a long time, so that I can just change the pre/pro whenever I want to upgrade (or downgrade), but glad to know I can start with just an AVR, but your AVR has a serious amp in it (so does my current Pioneer Elite SC-07). Maybe I'll just use that, and start slow with the front 3, sub/sub amp, and the surrounds, then upgrade to ATMOS, and eventually separate amps.

Why the Volt 6 from the ceiling instead of the 8 or 10? Is there really not a lot going to be coming out of them?

Just read about the pico, very interesting. I've got a ton of space, so I will probably go with something similar, but bigger.

I say the volt 6's but your room is probably bigger than mine. Mine =13.3x16.6x8 and from what I am understanding on ATMOS and the 3d effect, it seems to me that the ceiling mounted speakers would need a little bit more beaming of sound from them to bring that whole 3d effect into play. So the volt 6's I feel give that effect a bit more while still holding on to the dispersion from the coax driver. I may be misunderstanding the principle though. But if you have a large enough room I think any of the volts will work great.


I love my 4311 but as I said am holding off with Atmos avr until next year to see if the new models will come out with more channels available for Atmos. If you are interested in seperates, I would say look at the https://www.minidsp.com/products/dirac-series/ddrc-88a. I think that this unit will become very highly used for atmos since you can replace your avr with any atmos avr and still keep your settings (eq's). Costly but think I in the long run will be a great asset. I guess it will all depends on how far down the rabbit hole you wish to go before you say that is enough.


With my last statement said, that will also pertain to your sub woofer journey. If you take your time and do it yourself subs can be pretty cost effective for what you get out of them, thus giving you the freedom to try different ones or many more of them. I will be taking some measurement of my pico's once I come back from my cruise, just to confirm what my ears are hearing blending with my 1099's. Then will add my 18's back into the mix also and evaluate if I need more.
Good Luck


BCRSS is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #152 of 213 Old 02-03-2016, 09:53 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
BCRSS's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: TX
Posts: 1,139
Mentioned: 42 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 491 Post(s)
Liked: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by strakele View Post
I do have my center pulled past the front edge of the cabinet it's in and aimed up toward the listening position, though I admit I haven't tweaked the angle down to the fraction of an inch. Perhaps that's worthy of more experimentation. But I've always found it very difficult for a speaker to image anywhere other than where it is when it's the only speaker playing that content.
Before I had the 1099's I had the Ascend 340's for l/c/r and the dome tweeter on them would not center the voicing on my tv. It was close but seemed the voices would be coming from the bottom half of my tv inside of center, even though I had the center tilted up toward MLP. I use a laser pointer for sighting so I knew I would have correct tilt toward me. with the waveguide of the 1099's the center voicing is dead on.
Tux has posted some great graphs on the 1099 and the waveguide. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...os-design.html Should help you understand a tad more on them.


BCRSS is offline  
post #153 of 213 Old 02-03-2016, 11:28 AM
Senior Member
 
JustBusiness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 463
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Anyone have 1099s available for demo in Western NY/Ontario or central Connecticut? (Or Key West Florida, but I'm guessing that's a stretch!).

Just want to give a thorough listen, to confirm my ears like how they sound (from what I've read, it seems very likely!).
JustBusiness is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
post #154 of 213 Old 02-03-2016, 03:05 PM
Senior Member
 
strakele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 240
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
Liked: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by BCRSS View Post
Before I had the 1099's I had the Ascend 340's for l/c/r and the dome tweeter on them would not center the voicing on my tv. It was close but seemed the voices would be coming from the bottom half of my tv inside of center, even though I had the center tilted up toward MLP. I use a laser pointer for sighting so I knew I would have correct tilt toward me. with the waveguide of the 1099's the center voicing is dead on.
Tux has posted some great graphs on the 1099 and the waveguide. https://www.avsforum.com/forum/155-di...os-design.html Should help you understand a tad more on them.
Thanks, that's kinda what I was hoping to hear.
strakele is offline  
post #155 of 213 Old 02-03-2016, 07:40 PM
Advanced Member
 
FriscoDTM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 996
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 418 Post(s)
Liked: 389
I'm still a bit confused about which direction to go for my new 7.2.4 Atmos surrounds and overhead speakers. I have understood that the Volts are commonly used because of their high dispersion characteristics, but I've gotten a couple recommendations to go with the Fusions and would like to understand more about which are best for my room. Each will be driven by my 50ASX2BTL amps.

New L+R Surrounds - at ear level roughly 8-9ft from MLP. I've looked at the Cinema 10, Fusion8/10 and the Volt 8/10 LX.

New L+R Rear Surrounds - at ear level roughly 16 ft from MLP. needs to be under 18" Tall to sit on my kitchen counter. I've looked at many options but have started to narrow towards the Fusion 8 and Volt 8 LX because of the size. I also considered the Fusion 10 but would need to figure out how to maintain the height under 18".

Overheads - Roughly 9-10 ft away from MLP mounted in the ceiling, either in IB config or in a sealed backer box in the attic. I've looked at all of the Volts for these.

Display 2013 Samsung 75" UN75F6300 TV Media Xbox One X, Dune Solo, QNAP TS-453A NAS
Pre/Amp Marantz 7702mk2 Processor + DIY 11ch Icepower 50ASX2BTL Monoblock Amp Amp Build Link
7.2.4 Speakers DIYSG 1099s (LCR), Volt 10LX (SL, SR), Volt 8LX (BL, BR), Volt 10LX (TF, TR) Volt Build Link
Subs Dual 19Hz DIY Ported UXL-18s + FP14k Amp + MiniDSP 2x4 Balanced Tactile Crowsons + iNuke 6000DSP
FriscoDTM is offline  
post #156 of 213 Old 02-06-2016, 05:13 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
rhodesj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,158
Mentioned: 39 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1009 Post(s)
Liked: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by strakele View Post
Gents, any further thoughts on my questions from posts 131-134?

I'd use a Fusion 8 center for a better sensitivity match to the other speakers you're discussing.
rhodesj is offline  
post #157 of 213 Old 02-08-2016, 11:11 AM
Senior Member
 
strakele's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 240
Mentioned: 4 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 96 Post(s)
Liked: 109
Quote:
Originally Posted by rhodesj View Post
I'd use a Fusion 8 center for a better sensitivity match to the other speakers you're discussing.
I figure if I end up making it work with a 10"+ tall center, I may as well just go with the 893 and it's more advanced design, no?

At this point I'm trying to get thoughts on the Maximus 12 vs 893 on top of MBM/Flex 12.
strakele is offline  
post #158 of 213 Old 02-11-2016, 09:03 AM
Senior Member
 
thrand1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Suburbia, Columbus, OH
Posts: 448
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 17
I understand this thread is primarily for recommendations for speakers, but I would also appreciate it if you could lend your knowledge and recommend a subwoofer

Current setup: 5.1 system with Revel Performa B15a subwoofer. I would like to add a subwoofer that could provide better performance in the lower octaves (<40Hz) but still be able to integrate with the Revel.

The Revel is a sealed unit with a 15" woofer and the amplifier is rated at 1000w RMS, 1,400w peak. It measures approximately 20 x 20 x 20 inches. The amplifier has an AUX output and LPF that could be used (image available here) if "daisy chaining" it to the second subwoofer.

The room is approximately 12 x 24 feet with 8 foot ceilings. It does have a stairwell, and an opening to another room.

I was thinking of getting the 4 cu ft flatpack, as it is similar in dimensions to my existing sub, but have some novice questions for the driver and amplifier.
1) Comparing the Dayton Ultimax versus the Reference 18 (RSS460HO-4), is one recommended over the other for my specific application?
2) I see the iNuke amplifiers recommended frequently, but I'm not too keen on swapping out fans/potentially having issues once modified, and this sub is likely going to be placed nearfield. What alternatives are there which don't have a fan? Is there a specific amount of power you would recommend for this configuration, i.e. should I aim for a 1,000 watt amp if possible? I see Dayton Audio has a 1,000w plate amplifier, but the reviews are middling.
3) Would you recommend an entirely different flatpack/driver combo? I would have considered the LAB15 kit, but I've read that sometimes integrating ported with sealed subwoofers is challenging. Kind of wish there was a similar "kit" for sealed flatpacks!

I understand a lot of answers could be "it depends" on my questions, so I appreciate your feedback. Basically, I would like to get better low frequency performance than the Revel, but am not sure if I would get a noticeable improvement without going (a) larger in box size or (b) significantly more power at higher cost. I don't have enough knowledge to model these subwoofers in WinISD, but if someone knows where this configuration has been tested/modeled, I would appreciate it!

Again, thank you very much for your feedback and suggestions...I am looking for the best value to get better LFE performance in my room, and was considering this as a reasonable first attempt at DIY
thrand1 is offline  
post #159 of 213 Old 02-11-2016, 09:07 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dwaleke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,642
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1412 Post(s)
Liked: 719
What is the total volume of the space? The room you are in including all other rooms that it is open to. Add that up first.

How near is nearfield? 1 foot? 3 feet?
dwaleke is offline  
post #160 of 213 Old 02-12-2016, 05:08 AM
Senior Member
 
thrand1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Suburbia, Columbus, OH
Posts: 448
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 17
Quote:
Originally Posted by dwaleke View Post
What is the total volume of the space? The room you are in including all other rooms that it is open to. Add that up first.

How near is nearfield? 1 foot? 3 feet?
Hi,

Thanks for the response! I guess I should have been more clear- I can close doors leading to the stairwell and the other room while listening, just didn't want to imply it was 4 solid walls all the way around So with the doors closed, the total volume is around 2,400 cubic feet.

Nearfield would be within 3-4 feet of the listening position depending on which end of the couch I would position the sub.

Let me know if I missed anything else. Thanks!
thrand1 is offline  
post #161 of 213 Old 02-12-2016, 11:20 AM
Advanced Member
 
FriscoDTM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 996
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 418 Post(s)
Liked: 389
Any takers for my request in post 155 ? I'm tentatively leaning towards cinema 10 max for the left and right surrounds, fusion 8 for the rear surrounds and Volt 10 LX for the overheads. This is based in the distances and my still questionable understanding of directivity and dispersion for Atmos. If this seems like an error and I should go with Coaxials for all of them please reply because I don't want this to be a big mistake.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Display 2013 Samsung 75" UN75F6300 TV Media Xbox One X, Dune Solo, QNAP TS-453A NAS
Pre/Amp Marantz 7702mk2 Processor + DIY 11ch Icepower 50ASX2BTL Monoblock Amp Amp Build Link
7.2.4 Speakers DIYSG 1099s (LCR), Volt 10LX (SL, SR), Volt 8LX (BL, BR), Volt 10LX (TF, TR) Volt Build Link
Subs Dual 19Hz DIY Ported UXL-18s + FP14k Amp + MiniDSP 2x4 Balanced Tactile Crowsons + iNuke 6000DSP
FriscoDTM is offline  
post #162 of 213 Old 02-12-2016, 12:19 PM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dwaleke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,642
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1412 Post(s)
Liked: 719
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrand1 View Post
Hi,

Thanks for the response! I guess I should have been more clear- I can close doors leading to the stairwell and the other room while listening, just didn't want to imply it was 4 solid walls all the way around So with the doors closed, the total volume is around 2,400 cubic feet.

Nearfield would be within 3-4 feet of the listening position depending on which end of the couch I would position the sub.

Let me know if I missed anything else. Thanks!
I wouldn't bother trying to integrate another sub with what you have. Just sell that one and build a pair (or more) DIY.

Get a couple sealed 18" subs and an INUKE amp. Hard to beat the performance per dollar with that combo as long as you can fit them in your space.
Erich H likes this.
dwaleke is offline  
post #163 of 213 Old 02-12-2016, 12:52 PM
Senior Member
 
JustBusiness's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 463
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 43 Post(s)
Liked: 14
Quote:
Originally Posted by FriscoDTM View Post
Any takers for my request in post 155 ? I'm tentatively leaning towards cinema 10 max for the left and right surrounds, fusion 8 for the rear surrounds and Volt 10 LX for the overheads. This is based in the distances and my still questionable understanding of directivity and dispersion for Atmos. If this seems like an error and I should go with Coaxials for all of them please reply because I don't want this to be a big mistake.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I'm going coax for them all to match timbre. I've always liked matching the surrounds in my 7.x systems, so going to just do coax for the Atmos too.

Someone else would probably have a more complex answer, but for me, it's worked before, so I'm not going to try and change it.
JustBusiness is offline  
post #164 of 213 Old 02-12-2016, 03:56 PM
Senior Member
 
wldkrd1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 256
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Liked: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrand1 View Post
Let me know if I missed anything else. Thanks!
Budget, and do you have the ability/inclination to cut some wood? That's a fairly large space; if you're going sealed, you're going to want 4 18" subs. If ported, then you can do the same with 2 but they don't make flatpacks for that.
wldkrd1 is offline  
post #165 of 213 Old 02-13-2016, 07:59 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 7,356
Mentioned: 294 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1852 Post(s)
Liked: 2659
Quote:
Originally Posted by FriscoDTM View Post
Any takers for my request in post 155 ? I'm tentatively leaning towards cinema 10 max for the left and right surrounds, fusion 8 for the rear surrounds and Volt 10 LX for the overheads. This is based in the distances and my still questionable understanding of directivity and dispersion for Atmos. If this seems like an error and I should go with Coaxials for all of them please reply because I don't want this to be a big mistake.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I read your original post but wasn't sure exactly what you meant. If you're considering using the Cinema-10 for surrounds, I'd say that's some pretty crazy overkill. For surround speakers it seems most people are going with the Volts due to their dispersion characteristics. Personally, I'd use them for all the surrounds and Atmos speakers. Unless you have a really big room, the Volt-6 works great at playing quite loud and clear.

_______________________
The SEOS Waveguide Project
Erich H is offline  
post #166 of 213 Old 02-14-2016, 03:41 PM
Member
 
menglish6's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Posts: 20
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1 Post(s)
Liked: 10
Would the fusion 6 vibe for L/R work reasonably well for a phantom center?

Current family room TV set-up doesn't have a reasonable place for a center and I was thinking that these S/EOS waveguides might make it possible to get rid of the center completely. Thoughts?
menglish6 is offline  
post #167 of 213 Old 02-14-2016, 04:18 PM
Advanced Member
 
FriscoDTM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 996
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 418 Post(s)
Liked: 389
Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
I read your original post but wasn't sure exactly what you meant. If you're considering using the Cinema-10 for surrounds, I'd say that's some pretty crazy overkill. For surround speakers it seems most people are going with the Volts due to their dispersion characteristics. Personally, I'd use them for all the surrounds and Atmos speakers. Unless you have a really big room, the Volt-6 works great at playing quite loud and clear.

Thanks if high dispersion is ideal, I guess I will go with the 8 LX or 10 LX.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Display 2013 Samsung 75" UN75F6300 TV Media Xbox One X, Dune Solo, QNAP TS-453A NAS
Pre/Amp Marantz 7702mk2 Processor + DIY 11ch Icepower 50ASX2BTL Monoblock Amp Amp Build Link
7.2.4 Speakers DIYSG 1099s (LCR), Volt 10LX (SL, SR), Volt 8LX (BL, BR), Volt 10LX (TF, TR) Volt Build Link
Subs Dual 19Hz DIY Ported UXL-18s + FP14k Amp + MiniDSP 2x4 Balanced Tactile Crowsons + iNuke 6000DSP
FriscoDTM is offline  
post #168 of 213 Old 02-15-2016, 09:00 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
corradizo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: near Chicago
Posts: 3,408
Mentioned: 81 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1523 Post(s)
Liked: 1580
Has anyone build the Marksman? How would it compare to the fusion 8 for music? I have two HT18's that i cross pretty high for bass.

-pete
corradizo is online now  
post #169 of 213 Old 02-16-2016, 12:43 PM
Senior Member
 
thrand1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Suburbia, Columbus, OH
Posts: 448
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 8 Post(s)
Liked: 17
All, thanks for your feedback. I'm trying to respond to each input in kind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by dwaleke View Post
I wouldn't bother trying to integrate another sub with what you have. Just sell that one and build a pair (or more) DIY.

Get a couple sealed 18" subs and an INUKE amp. Hard to beat the performance per dollar with that combo as long as you can fit them in your space.
I would like to integrate with my current sub if possible by adding a DIYSG flatpack kit to the approximately 24 x 22 x 22 inch space I have available next to the couch. I understand my current sub is not up to the performance level of what many can do in DIY, but the offers I've received when posting my current sub for sale have been low enough that it is worth more to just keep it.

I've encountered the iNuke 1000 model in the wild, and from ten feet away the fans were audible in the setup I auditioned (they were powering B&W CM10 speakers, with factory fans on the iNuke I believe) during quiet passages of a movie. If I am placing it at a closer distance, I would wonder if that would cut into the listening experience, so that is why I was asking if there were any alternatives.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wldkrd1 View Post
Budget, and do you have the ability/inclination to cut some wood? That's a fairly large space; if you're going sealed, you're going to want 4 18" subs. If ported, then you can do the same with 2 but they don't make flatpacks for that.
My budget is $500-800. I don't have any serious woodworking tools- just the basic Milwaukee power drill/screwdriver setup plus a nailgun and router, so the flatpacks are my best option I had been considering the 4 cu ft flatpack plus the Dayton Ultimax plus an amplifier.

Is my understanding correct that most of you feel it is not worth even attempting to add a flatpack sub to this setup? If so, then I apologize for my dumb questions, I honestly came in thinking I could complement the existing sub with something from DIYSG, but I may have been mistaken.
thrand1 is offline  
post #170 of 213 Old 02-16-2016, 01:14 PM
Senior Member
 
wldkrd1's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2015
Location: Silicon Valley, CA
Posts: 256
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 123 Post(s)
Liked: 78
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrand1 View Post
My budget is $500-800. I don't have any serious woodworking tools- just the basic Milwaukee power drill/screwdriver setup plus a nailgun and router, so the flatpacks are my best option I had been considering the 4 cu ft flatpack plus the Dayton Ultimax plus an amplifier.
In that case, I would probably recommend the UM22-18 for your driver, an iNuke 3000DSP and build one of the Marty options (whatever's easiest with handy panels). That will run you in the $650 range and will be a big upgrade from what you have now and when it's still not enough, you can build a second one for ~$350.
wldkrd1 is offline  
post #171 of 213 Old 02-21-2016, 08:47 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
dwaleke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Michigan
Posts: 2,642
Mentioned: 29 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1412 Post(s)
Liked: 719
Quote:
Originally Posted by thrand1 View Post
I've encountered the iNuke 1000 model in the wild, and from ten feet away the fans were audible in the setup I auditioned (they were powering B&W CM10 speakers, with factory fans on the iNuke I believe) during quiet passages of a movie. If I am placing it at a closer distance, I would wonder if that would cut into the listening experience, so that is why I was asking if there were any alternatives.
Most pro-amps run just fine in a home environment with a fan swap to a quieter fan. The inuke can be made as silent as an amp without a fan. The fan swap in the inuke is simple. Just food for thought.
dwaleke is offline  
post #172 of 213 Old 02-21-2016, 12:05 PM
Advanced Member
 
FriscoDTM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 996
Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 418 Post(s)
Liked: 389
Thanks for the input, my order has been cut. I will do two ported Volt 10LX for side surrounds as mini towers, two standard bookshelf sized ported Volt 8LX for rear surrounds, and four Volt 10LX in the ceiling for overheads, either as IB or in sealed boxes hidden in the attic.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Display 2013 Samsung 75" UN75F6300 TV Media Xbox One X, Dune Solo, QNAP TS-453A NAS
Pre/Amp Marantz 7702mk2 Processor + DIY 11ch Icepower 50ASX2BTL Monoblock Amp Amp Build Link
7.2.4 Speakers DIYSG 1099s (LCR), Volt 10LX (SL, SR), Volt 8LX (BL, BR), Volt 10LX (TF, TR) Volt Build Link
Subs Dual 19Hz DIY Ported UXL-18s + FP14k Amp + MiniDSP 2x4 Balanced Tactile Crowsons + iNuke 6000DSP
FriscoDTM is offline  
post #173 of 213 Old 02-23-2016, 06:56 AM
Member
 
MaDBeN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Hi Guys

Glad I spotted this thread as I've been struggling for a while now trying to decide which speaker system best suits my needs. I’m looking to take my system up a notch or two and would really appreciate some advice.

PLAN
Initially I’d like to upgrade my front 3 with the intentions of if I like what I hear replacing my surround and height speakers.

I would like a well timbre / voice matched system when complete

Flat pack is needed and only concern is crossover building as I am a complete novice

ROOM SETUP
11ft W x 18ft L x 8ft H I have a Seymour AV acoustically transparent screen which spans the entire width of the front wall with a gap of just over a foot behind the screen where my current LCR sit. My MLP is located just over 10ft from the front wall and just over 9ft from the screen.

CURRENT SPEAKERS

All listener level are by Ken Kreisel with 4 x dual 12 inch push pull subwoofers (8 12’s in total) the LCR’s use 2 x 5 ¼ inch woofers and 4 x 1 inch soft dome tweeters. The side surrounds and backs use the same 4 x 1 inch dome tweeters with only 1 x 5 ¼ woofer. For Atmos speakers I have 4 x Tannoy AMS 5DC which use 5" Dual Concentric drivers.

OTHER GEAR
Marantz AV8802a processor
AB 5500 power Amp (5 x 500 watt per channel at 8Ohms) powering my front LCR + Side surrounds
Yamaha Z11 powering the remaining speakers (140 watt per channel)
EQ duty is handled by dual miniDSP 88a’s with Dirac software.

PREFERENCES / REASONS FOR UPGRADE
My system is used for movies only. What I am looking for with the system upgrade is plenty of headroom, the ability to run up to reference levels without strain or harshness whilst also being able to listen at lower levels without losing any detail or dynamism, a more cinematic sound, more dynamics, more mid bass punch and the ability to cross over at around the 80 to 100hz mark without stressing the speakers.

Browsing the site I quite like the look of the following speakers as the dimensions seem suitable for placement behind my screen.

The 88 Special
Fusion-8: The Alchemy
Fusion-10: The Pure

Eventually if all goes well I would like to add some volts possibly 8’s or 10’s (if recommended and a good tonal match to chosen speakers) for surround and atmos duties.

CONCERNS / POTENTIAL ISSUES
Front Left and Right speakers will be close to side walls
Limited space for toe-in
Distance between speaker and screen material

Hopefully enough information there for some recommendations apologies if I've missed anything. I’m open to suggestions and look forward to any advice offered.

Thanks very much
MaDBeN is offline  
post #174 of 213 Old 02-23-2016, 08:44 AM
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: United States
Posts: 2,529
Mentioned: 48 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1256 Post(s)
Liked: 1969
500 watts per channel for your LCR?

I'd go with the 88 Special as it should be able to handle that level of power when crossed at 80 to 100Hz. You want dynamics and clarity, one 8 or 10" will have issues at those power levels.

The issue with the 88 Special is toe in, it does have a very large horn so should image well. 10 feet to MLP will give you reference easily at 50 watts per channel or less so no worries there.
18Hurts is online now  
post #175 of 213 Old 02-23-2016, 10:36 AM
Member
 
MaDBeN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Thanks for the reply 18Hurts

Yeah 500 per channel.... It's a custom built / spec'd amp I went a bit mad with the order.

Is much toe in required on the 88 Special? I did like the look of the Special's

Cheers
MaDBeN is offline  
post #176 of 213 Old 02-23-2016, 12:05 PM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 224
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaDBeN View Post
Is much toe in required on the 88 Special? I did like the look of the Special's

Cheers
I have two 88 Specials running as a phantom center in my living room. I have them flat against the wall with no toe-in. The waveguides are at ear level (technically they are upside down).

In this mode toe-in made a slight difference, but not enough to make it worth having them angled off the wall. Slight means really slight, enough that I had to only concentrate on the sound and stop watching the movie to detect any difference.

With an actual LCR setup with a dedicated center, the center would obviously not be toed-in, so only the left and right channels are affected. In this case having the toe-in is helpful, but it would probably be difficult to know the true difference since the LR are general placement of sounds, not a pinpoint positioning. The center is going to be flat and "just work".

I am going through the same thoughts for my dedicated home theater. I am looking for the minimum space behind the AT wall and keep coming back to the 88s. Otherwise I would have to make a custom sized 893, 1099, or Fusion 15 box to make them not as deep (would trade height for depth).
bitmap42 is offline  
post #177 of 213 Old 02-23-2016, 03:06 PM - Thread Starter
AVS Forum Special Member
 
Erich H's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati OH
Posts: 7,356
Mentioned: 294 Post(s)
Tagged: 3 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1852 Post(s)
Liked: 2659
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaDBeN View Post
Hi Guys

Glad I spotted this thread as I've been struggling for a while now trying to decide which speaker system best suits my needs. I’m looking to take my system up a notch or two and would really appreciate some advice.
The Fusion-8 is a bit laid back and I don't recommend it for behind a screen. The 88-Specials are perfect if they are within your budget. You won't need but a small fraction of the power you have with those speakers.

_______________________
The SEOS Waveguide Project
Erich H is offline  
post #178 of 213 Old 02-23-2016, 08:00 PM
Member
 
alamez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 157
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 45 Post(s)
Liked: 16
PLAN
Initially I’d like to upgrade my front 3 and add surrounds and atmos speakers. Dual sub-woofer's upgrade later. I like the idea of high sensitivity speakers to power all of them with my Pioneer elite SC97. Im looking to use this setup strictly for home theater use. I have no experience with DIY anything so will pay for someone to do crossovers for me. I will also be needing to purchase equipment to go about this project.


ROOM SETUP
Listening area is 16x16 with 8ft ceiling however it opens up behind me on my left and right to a living room with vaulted ceiling and a kitchen on the other side. My screen is a 110" not acoustically transparent. Screen is on the wall and MLP is 10.5 ft. I would like speakers that can be placed near a wall or on the wall without issues. I have a wall on my right that can accommodate a speaker directly at ear height however on the left i need to place it behind listening position because there is a sliding door with shutters.

CURRENT SPEAKERS
Currently running 3.1 and using a HSU VTF 15h MK2, L,R Boston A360's , and A225C for the center. I have a bunch of speakers i planned on using and impulsively bought 3 years ago and never bothered to install now i need to sell them. They are 4 HTD HDR65 in ceiling speakers (i was planning on using them for atmos), 4 Boston Soundware 4.5 Indoor/outdoor speakers (initially my surrounds)

OTHER GEAR
Pioneer Elite SC97 (810 watts Class D amps), EPSON 5020 ps3, ps4, htpc, xbox one,

PREFERENCES / REASONS FOR UPGRADE
I want efficiency, dynamics for home theater, and more BASS.aesthetics as a little important since the speakers will be displayed unless i can find a way to hide them or build a false wall but that would bring the screen too close to MLP? I don't want overkill, i was looking at the elusive 1099 but i figured they may be overkill. Ideally i would like to have the atmos speakers in ceiling flush mounted.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Ls.jpg
Views:	57
Size:	104.9 KB
ID:	1274185   Click image for larger version

Name:	rs.jpg
Views:	62
Size:	91.0 KB
ID:	1274193   Click image for larger version

Name:	FullSizeRender.jpg
Views:	58
Size:	139.4 KB
ID:	1274201   Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_0957.jpg
Views:	74
Size:	173.6 KB
ID:	1274209  
alamez is offline  
post #179 of 213 Old 02-23-2016, 10:46 PM
Member
 
MaDBeN's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 92
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 49 Post(s)
Liked: 21
Quote:
Originally Posted by bitmap42 View Post
I have two 88 Specials running as a phantom center in my living room. I have them flat against the wall with no toe-in. The waveguides are at ear level (technically they are upside down).

In this mode toe-in made a slight difference, but not enough to make it worth having them angled off the wall. Slight means really slight, enough that I had to only concentrate on the sound and stop watching the movie to detect any difference.

With an actual LCR setup with a dedicated center, the center would obviously not be toed-in, so only the left and right channels are affected. In this case having the toe-in is helpful, but it would probably be difficult to know the true difference since the LR are general placement of sounds, not a pinpoint positioning. The center is going to be flat and "just work".

I am going through the same thoughts for my dedicated home theater. I am looking for the minimum space behind the AT wall and keep coming back to the 88s. Otherwise I would have to make a custom sized 893, 1099, or Fusion 15 box to make them not as deep (would trade height for depth).
Thanks for the info bitmap42

Depending on how close one can place the speaker to the screen material I may have a bit of play for a slight toe in on the L R. So it's important to have the waveguide at ear level good to know they work fine upside down.

Awesome build guide you have put together that could come in very handy

Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
The Fusion-8 is a bit laid back and I don't recommend it for behind a screen. The 88-Specials are perfect if they are within your budget. You won't need but a small fraction of the power you have with those speakers.
Thanks Erich

Will the 88-Specials give me all I am looking for in an upgrade? How about the Volts as surround / atmos upgrades will they be a good timbre / voice match for the 88 specials?

With regards crossovers is this something that can be done for me for a fee? The cabinet construction shouldn't be a problem just don't fancy potentially messing up the electronic side of things with my lack of experience

Thanks Guys
MaDBeN is offline  
post #180 of 213 Old 02-24-2016, 05:13 AM
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2015
Posts: 224
Mentioned: 11 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 89 Post(s)
Liked: 88
Quote:
Originally Posted by MaDBeN View Post
Thanks for the info bitmap42

Awesome build guide you have put together that could come in very handy

Will the 88-Specials give me all I am looking for in an upgrade? How about the Volts as surround / atmos upgrades will they be a good timbre / voice match for the 88 specials?

With regards crossovers is this something that can be done for me for a fee? The cabinet construction shouldn't be a problem just don't fancy potentially messing up the electronic side of things with my lack of experience

Thanks Guys
Hopefully the guide helps!

The 88s measure well, have good off-axis control, are clear at low volume, and can play incredibly loud (plenty of headroom). I have mine in a 20x30 great room open to the kitchen and they can easily fill the space. I don't know your current set of speakers, but for me they were an upgrade in every way.

There is a crossover services thread created by @mtg90 , he makes boards for a lot of the kits including the 88 Specials.
bitmap42 is offline  
Sponsored Links
Advertisement
 
 

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Show Printable Version
Email this Page Email this Page


Forum Jump: 

Posting Rules  
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off