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-   -   Get Help Picking the Right DIY Sound Group Speakers. (https://www.avsforum.com/forum/401-diy-sound-group-loudspeakers-subwoofers/1935505-get-help-picking-right-diy-sound-group-speakers.html)

Erich H 03-16-2015 07:50 PM

Get Help Picking the Right DIY Sound Group Speakers.
 
If you're not sure which DIY Sound Group speakers will work best for your needs and your room size, post your questions here.

It would be helpful knowing how big your room is, how loud you listen, what speakers you currently have, and what you plan on powering the speakers with.

Erich H 03-16-2015 07:51 PM

Reserved for future information.

tuxedocivic 03-17-2015 09:02 AM

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Erich H (Post 32678817)
It would be helpful knowing how big your room is, how loud you listen, what speakers you currently have, and what you plan on powering the speakers with.

And your budget, size constraints, and DIY ability (ie. do you require flat packs).

SageFly 03-18-2015 08:22 AM

I might as well be the first use this area.


Room Info - Non-dedicated theater setup in an 11' x 13' section of my living room ("L" shaped room with theater setup in one leg of the L - projector screen on the far wall with back of sofa to the opening of the rest of the room). Living room is open to the rest of the 1700 sqft house


Current Speakers & Power - 3.2 using an EMP Tek R5Ci channel and R5Bi bookshelves for the LCR along with 2x SI HT-18 subs (soon to be upgraded to UXL 18s). LCR are powered via AVR rated at 150W/channel at 6ohm (no pre-outs available).


Listening Preference/Usage - 99% movies with most of it being done at reasonable levels (well below reference as there's usually a baby sleeping in the room next door). But with that being said, I do like to hear everything in a movie and feel explosions and earthquakes.


Size Constraints - 14ish inches x 6ft below the projector screen for a center channel sitting on top of a 19" tall TV stand. The L&R will sit on top of 28" tall sub boxes to the left and right of the TV stand in the corners there is about 16-18" from the side walls to the projector screen and I have about 5' before I get to the ceiling. Ideally, I wouldn't want to take up all that height.. WAF is very important, although everything we've had in the past has been small so I don't know how big I can go.


DIY Capabilities - No problem. Full wood shop and soldering is cake (although a pre-assembled XO wouldn't be bad)


Budget - Would like to get the best that is needed for my room and use. If I have to spend an extra $200 to upgrade an LCR to the next level, I'm willing to do so.


Reason for Upgrade - We just purchased the EMP Tek speakers and while they are way better than what we had previously, the center channel seems to be very directional for dialogue and is very difficult to hear off axis more than 10°. I'd like to have fairly wide dispersion of sound (especially dialogue) to fill the room so that everyone has about the same listening experience.


Future Plans - Would also like to upgrade to 5.2 or 7.2 at some point, but the wife has to agree to how the surrounds will look on the walls. Currently not in the cards.


If there's any additional information needed, let me know and I'll add it. Does this format work?

tuxedocivic 03-18-2015 09:59 AM

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That's great.

Given your center channel constraints I immediately jump to the 1099. Have you looked at that one? Would that work. There's also a Cinema 8 center channel to look at. If neither of those suited you, there would be some challenge getting the center right.

The 1099 might not fit your L&R unless I misunderstand your space restriction.

SageFly 03-18-2015 11:21 AM

I updated my original post to better reflect the area available for the L&R. Width shouldn't be an issue, but they (the L&R) will sit 28" off the floor.


I've been looking at the 1099 quite a bit and dtsdig (making the curved 1099s) lives about 1.5hrs away and offered to let me hear his once they're complete. Will these speakers with SEOS be better at filling the room with the mid-high range frequencies that dialogue falls in? That's really my only complaint with the speakers I have now and I've talked to EMP as well consulted other members here and haven't come up with anything to fix it.


The 1099 LCR set would be a bit pricey though at just over $1k without enclosures. I wonder if I could order a single as a center first to decide if that's the way I want to go (the minimum is 2x on DIYSoundgroup).

tuxedocivic 03-18-2015 02:23 PM

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I would take dtsdig up on his offer and just hold on. If you can't wait, then I'm sure Erich would sell you one if you ordered the cinema 10 max or something else for L&R. Or maybe even just one for now. I can't say for sure though.

LitoGeorge 04-06-2015 03:47 PM

I have a fairly good idea of what to buy when it comes to Cinema.

But I am planning on making a music room in my forthcoming house, and I'd love to know what 2 channel system would be considered kickazz from DIYSG.

No budget considerations.


Tx!!!

Erich H 04-06-2015 08:42 PM

There are some new 3 way designs coming very soon that you might want to wait for if you want 2 channel system.

LitoGeorge 04-07-2015 03:40 AM

As an alternative to the 3 way system forthcoming - would you comment on what system DIYSG currently offers that would be music fantastic? 1899? Perhaps a 5.1 system consisting of....?

All appreciated Erich...

NicAVS 04-07-2015 08:12 AM

This topic is a welcomed idea. I know Erich is quite busy so having an official place to post our request for help/guidance appart from e-mail is great.

I'm looking for advice for my dedicated room. Size 11.5 x 19 x 7.5. AT setup with 24 inch of space behind screenwall to house LCR.

Room will eventually have accoustic treatment. Soundproofing was done (DD+GG, room within a room, double door).

I currently have a HTIB system with a Panasonic AVR and small satellite speaker.

I'm looking for a 7.1 system. I'll be upgrading the AVR to something along the line of a Denon X4100 or similar. Sub will be DIY, something along the line of single or dual martycube with 18'' driver with inuke 3000.

I mostly watch movies with the family so 90% of the time volume levels are not that high. But when I get to watch something alone, I prefer it a bit louder.

Budget is not set in stone. I'd be glad to keep it around 1K$ for the LCR portion.

I'm not scared to build my own cab but I have no prior experience. Since the LCR will be hidden, not really an issue. Perhaps I'll order flat pack for the surround.

Erich once advised me via e-mail that Alchemy 8 would be enough for my room. Since then, new model like the Cinema 10 max, 88 Special and Cinema 8 have come up and have me wondering wich model to choose.

I've really worked hard on my dedicated room and I look forward to having a sound setup that match those efforts.

Thank you for your help.

tuxedocivic 04-07-2015 08:49 AM

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Nic,

19ft is a pretty long room depending on where you sit. And as your kids get older you may turn it up more and more. I know I do. A lot of kids movies have great sound that deserve it. Nothing wrong with the Fusion 8s. They would probably work for you. But because you aren't space limited, or form factor limited (no center channel configuration required), I'd probably steer you towards the Cinema 8 or 10. I'd be concerned the single 8" woofer wouldn't be enought to match the subs well if your room correction eq gives it much boost and you crank it up one day. Sensitivity isn't the whole story. If you're 15ft back with an 80hz XO and a bit of boost in the 100hz range, that single 8 won't cut the cheese unless you're really not listening loud. The dual 8 will also do it more effortlessly. So even if you aren't producing much excursion from the woofer, it'll be happier and play better. I'm also a big MTM fan and with that low ceiling the MTM would be nice to have. The Cinema 8 is gonna run you into the $300 each range with flat pack, shipping, etc. So under budget. The Fusion 10 would be a little less and get the SEOS advantage. Or spend the whole budget and get the Cinema 10 but I'm not sure there's a flat pack. It does come with a XO pcb and is really simple to assemble, so that's a nice benefit. The XO just worked out nice and easy on that one.

Bottom line is that I would personally talk you up from the Fusion 8 due to your listening distance and your budget easily accomodates it. Room size isn't as important for speakers as distance.

NicAVS 04-07-2015 01:41 PM

Thanks tuxedocivic for your input.

That total lenght of 19ft actually includes the 2ft behind the screen wall. So actual lenght usuable is 17ft. I'm the type of viewer who likes to sit up close to the screen so I'm planning on having the row of seat at 11ft.

Would the cinema 10 be considered overkill (if there's such a thing on this forum...) ? Or the 88 special ? I once was looking at the Klipsch THX ultra line (probably out of my price range) and when the 88 special weren't unveiled, they reminded me of the Kl-650 so I always had a thing for them.

Can you give me some details of the difference in waveguide used in the Cinema 8 vs 10 ?

Thanks again

tuxedocivic 04-07-2015 02:02 PM

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Overkill depends on your needs. It will do reference levels with ease at 11ft. But some people want that.

The SEOS is a little more vertically compressed than the EOS. Both are very good waveguides, so it's not a deal breaker. The SEOS is superior IMO though. From both the perspective of designing a speaker using either, and the finished product. Will someone easily hear the differences? I'd say no. Those differences would be a little more even polar response and closer driver spacing. Don't let that sway your decision much.

If you like the 88, go for it. I don't know much about it but it'll deliver what you need and looks ARE important.

muzz 04-07-2015 02:08 PM

If it matters, I just checked, and AFAICS there is not a flat pack available for the Cinema 10 (Max).
The 1099 should be back in stock very shortly, but if you are interested in those you should check frequently, as they tend to go fast, and that has flat packs.

Fusion 10/12/15 all have flat packs, as well as the 88 Special.

nograveconcern 04-14-2015 08:38 AM

I'm getting ready to order a pair of Cinema 10's at the recommendation of tuxedocivic and need a recommendation on surrounds. I'm leaning toward the volt 8's, but the cost to go with 10 lx's is negligible.

I like the 8's because they are ported. My current surrounds are sealed and don't match up well with my desired crossover point, but that could just be due to the little 4" drivers.

Room is under 1400 cu ft, 11' wide, 8' ceiling.

Erich H 04-15-2015 09:04 AM

Sealed 4" woofers won't get very low at all. The 10" will do much better than they do.

nograveconcern 04-15-2015 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Erich H (Post 33501658)
Sealed 4" woofers won't get very low at all. The 10" will do much better than they do.

I agree, but so will a ported 8. I guess I'm looking for more specific advantages / disadvantages of the 10 vs the 8 so I can make an informed decision.

From the specs it looks like the 10 has 1db more sensitivity at the cost of 5 Hz extension. Is there more to it than that? What was the 10 designed to do better than the 8?

Thanks for your help.

tuxedocivic 04-15-2015 01:13 PM

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The 10 will have a larger "waveguide" being the cone is the waveguide. If you have off axis seating the 8 might be an advantage.

coolrda 04-15-2015 01:44 PM

Just dropped in to check this out. My C10M's have really come into their own and now sound much better without EQing. Still working on the main/sub integration but that's coming around.

Jk7.2 04-16-2015 09:26 AM

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My first post....
Any advice for upgrading from a klipsch 7.1 reference 2 system for a newbe? I am very interested in the elusive 1099 LCR setup. It will be behind my A/T screen where my current 3 rf-62 I I speakers are. Powered by denon x-4000 avr. I am 98 percent movie watcher. Room is 12x20x7. I listen loud and love it. I built a ib sub with 6 15's and it is wonderful on the bottom end.
Question is how bright / forward are these things? I am a fan of the klipsch horns, and admit I am limited in experience to those only. I have no friends into this hobby with any other setups I have heard. I just think I would get a ton more clarity from the 1099's then my current set up. Any comments welcome!

tuxedocivic 04-16-2015 07:01 PM

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The Elusive 1099 is on par with most of the better Klipsch in terms of brightness. Klipsch are generally noted to be bright/forward. Some are quite bad IMO but the 1099 is not like those ones IMO. While they are similar in tonal balance the 1099 is far more clear and dynamic than any of the Klipsch I've heard. Others can probably give you a more unbiased opinion as I'm very biased ;)

wormraper 04-17-2015 02:18 AM

I have a quick question. I'm really looking at replacing my Cheap thrills mains with the Cinema 10 Max's due to their more "forward" sound that the 10's have. by my calculations the Cinema 10 Max's should be a bit more powerful and get a tad louder at longer seating distances (I'm sitting 16 feet back from the mains) vs. the cheap thrills and I was wondering which Center I should use. I know TECHNICALLY the 1099 is the best center for the Max 10s, but I honestly don't want to do the insane crossover and fitting a really wide center like that would be tough. I might do another 10 max, but the waveguide would be really low comparatively to the other speakers (and DEFINITELY below head level at the seating position) that way since the TOP of the speaker would be at about head height in my theater. would I be better off with the 88 special, or one of my cheap thrills work as a center for the 10 Max? I'm just trying to figure out what Center I can use since the 1099 is out

1. Room size.. it's a 12 foot wide, x 22 foot deep (I sit at about 16-17 feet back, cuz of a huge null at the 12-14 hz range for my subs) x 9 foot ceilings

2. my mains right now are a pair of Cheap Thrills powered by a Yamaha 773

3. 100% HT

4. size constraints.. I can fit the cheap thrills barely as the L/R , the center I can fit it , but an MTM 1099 MIGHT be too big, unless I completely revamp my rack space

5. DIY capabilities, luckily I have a friend with a woodworking shop who helps with my builds so flatpacks aren't necessary

6. Budget, I can afford up to $400 per speaker before wood working costs,

7. future plans, atm I'm building 4 Volt 10's as my surrounds and I'm going to be adding two more subs (uxl 18s)

dorri732 04-17-2015 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wormraper (Post 33549225)
I might do another 10 max, but the waveguide would be really low comparatively to the other speakers (and DEFINITELY below head level at the seating position) that way since the TOP of the speaker would be at about head height in my theater.

You could always tip the center channel back just a bit so that the waveguide was directed toward the listener's ears. This should sound the same as raising it to ear level.

Jk7.2 04-17-2015 04:16 AM

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Thanks for the reply. I can appreciate your bias. Maybe im dreaming, but aren't brighter speakers better for behind a screen? The screen knocks that back down a tad maybe? I am talking my self into this purchase.
Next question is how difficult is building the crossover for the 1099's ? I have next to no experience with small circuitry. I can solder. I know some say the xo is way easier than the boxes, and some say the boxes are the easier part. I'm definitely in the later group.

wvu80 04-17-2015 07:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SageFly (Post 32717841)
I might as well be the first use this area.


Room Info - Non-dedicated theater setup in an ..,

(respectful snip)

Future Plans - Would also like to upgrade to 5.2 or 7.2 at some point, but the wife has to agree to how the surrounds will look on the walls. Currently not in the cards.

If there's any additional information needed, let me know and I'll add it. Does this format work?

I think your template is perfect.

It gives everybody the info they need to guide someone without having to ask more questions right off the bat.

tuxedocivic 04-17-2015 11:49 AM

6 Attachment(s)
Quote:

Originally Posted by wormraper (Post 33549225)
I have a quick question. I'm really looking at replacing my Cheap thrills mains with the Cinema 10 Max's due to their more "forward" sound that the 10's have. by my calculations the Cinema 10 Max's should be a bit more powerful and get a tad louder at longer seating distances (I'm sitting 16 feet back from the mains) vs. the cheap thrills and I was wondering which Center I should use. I know TECHNICALLY the 1099 is the best center for the Max 10s, but I honestly don't want to do the insane crossover and fitting a really wide center like that would be tough. I might do another 10 max, but the waveguide would be really low comparatively to the other speakers (and DEFINITELY below head level at the seating position) that way since the TOP of the speaker would be at about head height in my theater. would I be better off with the 88 special, or one of my cheap thrills work as a center for the 10 Max? I'm just trying to figure out what Center I can use since the 1099 is out

That's a really tricky one. First, I'm not sure the Cinema 10 will give you more output. It might, but we're talking 3db or so. I guess if you're really maxing out the Chrap Thrills... Just doesn't seem like a good reason to change. If there's other reasons (size, fun, etc.) then by all means. For the center, yikes. I guess the 88 would be my second suggestion or if you could use a cheap thrills to try. There's no good answer for that if the 1099 is out. Maybe asking someone to make the XO for you??

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jk7.2 (Post 33550057)
Thanks for the reply. I can appreciate your bias. Maybe im dreaming, but aren't brighter speakers better for behind a screen? The screen knocks that back down a tad maybe? I am talking my self into this purchase.
Next question is how difficult is building the crossover for the 1099's ? I have next to no experience with small circuitry. I can solder. I know some say the xo is way easier than the boxes, and some say the boxes are the easier part. I'm definitely in the later group.

I'd say you're right. The screen does knock some out. I did some testing on this. I have a thread in the DIY screen section if it interests you.

The XO is probably the most challenging of all the DIYSG speakers. If you break down HF, MF, LF the MF section is quite complex. The HF and LF are simple. If this is a problem, I can build them for people, or MTG90 does also. Not sure what he charges. It is a difficult XO though. You should be prepared to take your time, ask questions, post good photos, and ask for help. If you're not willing to do that then you could end up with a bad pair of expensive speakers and wish you never started. That said, it can be done if you're willing.

Jk7.2 04-17-2015 02:54 PM

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That's just like me to pick the speaker with the most complex xo. Having the xo's completed for me would probably be the right thing for me. It would kill me to look at those beautiful speakers and not be able to crank em because I'm stumbling through that part of the build.
I'm curious if there is a better option for me as far as speaker choice. I really want to improve the clarity and dynamics of my set up. I just feel that three 1099's would complement my Ib sub very well. Having seen how much better my diy sub is then my svs pb-12 pluses, I know diy speaker kits will be a massive improvement over the klipsch I have. Even if at this point I don't really understand how or why there so much better.

tuxedocivic 04-17-2015 03:59 PM

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Do you need a center? I think the Cinema 10 has the simplest XO in the entire diysg line up if I'm not mistaken. It's funny how vastly different their XOs are despite their similarity. There are probably some in between difficulties also. But it all depends if you need a horizontal center.

Jk7.2 04-17-2015 06:23 PM

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No I don't need a horizontal center. But three cinema 10's then. How would they compare to 1099's side by side? Would it just be a matter of more punch in the mid range?


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