Little Bro to the 1099 - Development thread - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 437 Old 05-31-2015, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Little Bro to the 1099 - Development thread

There's been some chatter on this speaker and I've been at it, so I figured I'd share some of my current progress and future progress. So far it's an exciting project.

The idea behind this was to create a speaker with the same center channel option as the 1099 in an even smaller form factor. Erich wanted to make it more convenient to build, so sealed back mids were found by him and ran them by me. I gave them the thumbs up. He got some custom woofers made up that really dig deep at the expense of effeciency. There was no way to get 99db out of 8" woofers anyways. At least not while making enough bass for a suitable XO to subs. I sized the box for him and he sent me the stuff. That's when I did this:


Once it was built I took a quick look at the drivers for you:


Then I dropped them into the box.



Then I measured





If I can be blunt, most DIY 3 way speakers aren't designed well. Thankfully XOers in the lower mids are fairly forgiving, so they usually get away with it. But it's this kind of effort that's required to get good enough data. This gave me a solid 10ms to look at the response whereas a typical 8' ceiling home will give 3ms. I measured around 1.5m to get good integration from all the drivers.

I'll post measurements and nicer photos later. Sorry my phone camera sucks so bad. I have a SLR camera I'll use to take nicer pics.

PS, the XO is complex, this has been a big negative for the 1099, but it's rather unavoidable in a 3 way


Crossover Schematic:

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Last edited by Erich H; 11-28-2015 at 08:38 PM. Reason: added schematic
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post #2 of 437 Old 05-31-2015, 02:43 PM
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Thanks for the update Tux, can't wait to order them as center for my 1099's !!
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post #3 of 437 Old 05-31-2015, 03:00 PM
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Looking good!

Not meaning to pry--OK, I'm prying! Just a few ideas of what the mids/horn are XO'd and the efficiency of the system? As you pointed out, can't get bass at 99dB 1w/1m with two 8 inchers but (I hope) 95dB 1w/1m is in the cards? Taking another guess, the box is around 30" tall X maybe 11" wide or there abouts?

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post #4 of 437 Old 05-31-2015, 03:51 PM - Thread Starter
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The XO points will be about 500 and 2000. At least that's what I've got right now. It shouldn't move much. But I've been surprised before.

Sensitivity of 95 isn't unrealistic. It's dipping to 6ohms helping bring up the sens. It measures a solid 8-9ohms (unusually high) before the XO is applied but the XO drops the impedance and brings up the woofers. I'll eventually measure the absolute sensitivity. So far I've only measured the relative sens and TS sens.
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post #5 of 437 Old 05-31-2015, 04:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
The XO points will be about 500 and 2000. At least that's what I've got right now. It shouldn't move much. But I've been surprised before.

Sensitivity of 95 isn't unrealistic. It's dipping to 6ohms helping bring up the sens. It measures a solid 8-9ohms (unusually high) before the XO is applied but the XO drops the impedance and brings up the woofers. I'll eventually measure the absolute sensitivity. So far I've only measured the relative sens and TS sens.
Take my money. I need 3, one being a horizontal center. It would also be cool if the LR tower could have the woofers on bottom and the tweeter at the top as to get better alignment to listener height since it's a relatively short tower.

Last edited by nix4me; 05-31-2015 at 05:39 PM.
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post #6 of 437 Old 05-31-2015, 08:13 PM
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How do the other dual 8" models achieve 98.5db?
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post #7 of 437 Old 05-31-2015, 08:39 PM
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The 8" woofers used in the other dual woofer models are designed to have higher sensitivity but the trade off is that in order to hit 80hz they need to be ported. The woofers used in this model are designed to play lower hitting 80hz in a sealed enclosure and giving more full range type of extension when ported but they give up some sensitivity to do so, as is Hoffman's iron law.
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post #8 of 437 Old 05-31-2015, 08:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Less bass, half space effeciency, and 4ohms. I could have called the 1099 a 102db and been able to defend it...
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post #9 of 437 Old 06-04-2015, 06:00 PM
 
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I'm excited to see how these turn out
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post #10 of 437 Old 06-04-2015, 06:59 PM
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I'm ready for a set of these to be placed on some 18" Dayton SUBS on either side of my TV with a center in the middle

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post #11 of 437 Old 06-04-2015, 09:09 PM
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These might have a bamboo baffle option. Well the 1099 can too, I just haven't had time to get photos of the ones I have.
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post #12 of 437 Old 06-05-2015, 10:08 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Erich H View Post
These might have a bamboo baffle option. Well the 1099 can too, I just haven't had time to get photos of the ones I have.
What's the benefit and price of a bamboo baffle?
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post #13 of 437 Old 06-07-2015, 10:06 AM
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Will there still be a tower version (woofers on bottom and tweeter up top) and a center channel version?
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post #14 of 437 Old 06-08-2015, 06:48 AM
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What's the benefit and price of a bamboo baffle?
Bamboo baffle is strictly an aesthetic thing. Some like it; some hate it. Personally, I think they're beautiful.

Poke around the DIY Sound Group site to check out images. You can see the bamboo right on the front with a 10"/12" subwoofer enclosure. Also, click on the Alpha line.
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post #15 of 437 Old 06-08-2015, 06:58 AM
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Bamboo ply is also super strong, but I'm not sure that would matter too much on the front baffle of these. It's mostly for looks.



Nix4me, yes there will be a center channel option and likely a version with the tweeter and mids up at the top with dual woofers underneath.

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post #16 of 437 Old 06-08-2015, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
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Bamboo ply is also super strong, but I'm not sure that would matter too much on the front baffle of these. It's mostly for looks.



Nix4me, yes there will be a center channel option and likely a version with the tweeter and mids up at the top with dual woofers underneath.
Thanks! Looking forward to building a set immediately upon release announcement.
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post #17 of 437 Old 06-13-2015, 09:17 PM - Thread Starter
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I've been listening to a XO on this thing that I really like all evening. It's very good. BUT, I'm not sure it's the XO for this kit. It doesn't completely bring "it" for me. I think there's more it can do and it's not quite giving it to me. When it does, hold on cause this thing is gonna be a giant killer (well, by the average person's standard this speaker is a giant, but not around here).
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post #18 of 437 Old 06-14-2015, 01:28 AM
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I know your designing this to work well with the 1099, but how well would this blend with the Cinema 10 max as right and lefts?
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post #19 of 437 Old 06-14-2015, 08:11 AM
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Tux, if you want me to make you a prototype ported tower to try out, let me know.
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post #20 of 437 Old 06-14-2015, 08:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Ming, I think the final "sound" of these will actually be closer to the Max than the 1099. In either case this should be one of those speakers that feels at home with just about any speaker as L&R.

Erich, no need. If you'd like to do a ported tower I can whip up a test box.

I took some photos and a video. I'll hopefully update the thread soon. On my phone right now.
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post #21 of 437 Old 06-15-2015, 04:48 PM
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My excitement is building. Do you think these lean towards home theatre sound or 2 channel audio - or neutral?
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post #22 of 437 Old 06-16-2015, 11:45 AM - Thread Starter
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I actually haven't watched any movies with it yet. Just some TV shows and lots of music. Perhaps this weekend I'll put the center baffle on and give it a rip. Generally I don't differentiate between the two. Speakers have to be accurate reproduction devices, and then they'll be good for both. But sometimes there are features about a speaker that make them extra suited to one or the other. These you could port and use full range for most music. So that's one way of looking at it.
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post #23 of 437 Old 06-17-2015, 09:40 PM
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I got a message today saying the custom 8" woofers are ready to be picked up. I'm not sure how much more time before the midranges get here from the UK though.

In a few weeks we can discuss different speaker layouts and options for ported or sealed.

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post #24 of 437 Old 06-18-2015, 05:51 PM
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Thanks for the update Erich - can't wait to build them.
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Cool ! Like the pictures.
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post #26 of 437 Old 06-25-2015, 08:21 PM
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I didn't have time to pick up the 8's this week but will get them next week. The SEOS-8's arrived today. Waiting on the pallet of mids from the UK.

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post #27 of 437 Old 06-25-2015, 08:44 PM
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Erich
How many of the little bro speakers will there be at launch.

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Guess I should have asked over here. Still doing a preorder for these?
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post #29 of 437 Old 06-26-2015, 08:13 AM
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Guess I should have asked over here. Still doing a preorder for these?
I think pre-ordering would be a good option!
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post #30 of 437 Old 06-26-2015, 10:51 AM
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I won't be able to do a preorder until the crossover is finalized to get a parts list and price figured out.

I'll have a good number of all parts except the crossover components when they are done. And I will buy as many of the crossovers as possible.

The original 1099 is about one preorder away from being in stock all the time as well.

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