1899 LCR Build - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 108 Old 12-01-2015, 11:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Got 2 layers of kilz primer on the boxes...they look pretty cool with the black drivers sitting in them I might just leave them with the primer coat and paint the front baffles and whole wall black once they're installed. Got the crossovers for the woofers and mids built. There's another 11 components just for the CD's, so they'll get their own boards. I should have these fired up this weekend

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post #62 of 108 Old 12-11-2015, 11:20 AM
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Got 2 layers of kilz primer on the boxes...they look pretty cool with the black drivers sitting in them I might just leave them with the primer coat and paint the front baffles and whole wall black once they're installed. Got the crossovers for the woofers and mids built. There's another 11 components just for the CD's, so they'll get their own boards. I should have these fired up this weekend


Crossovers lookin nice! You have been slacking since then though =p
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post #63 of 108 Old 12-11-2015, 11:28 AM - Thread Starter
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Crossovers lookin nice! You have been slacking since then though =p
lol my b. Got the crossovers for the CD's completed. I've started installing the denim insulation in the cabinets as well. The denim insulation is by far my favorite material to use for dampening in speakers so far. Zero mess handling and cutting. Also, extremely easy to install, using contact adhesive. No more delays, these will be completed this weekend!



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post #64 of 108 Old 12-11-2015, 12:40 PM
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Nice! I'm all giddy for impressions, can't imagine how anxious you are lol
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post #65 of 108 Old 12-12-2015, 08:05 AM
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Wow, those are really looking great!

By the looks of it, there are some resistors for the CD crossover that have their own heatsinks?
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post #66 of 108 Old 12-12-2015, 09:49 AM
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It's hard to tell from the pictures, but the denim insulation looks very thick. I think you just need to line the walls with that stuff.

Remember, that midrange chamber is the most important. Put the insulation on that back wall and side walls, then put in some polyfill. It's the most important part of the build.

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post #67 of 108 Old 12-20-2015, 11:03 PM
 
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lol my b. Got the crossovers for the CD's completed. I've started installing the denim insulation in the cabinets as well. The denim insulation is by far my favorite material to use for dampening in speakers so far. Zero mess handling and cutting. Also, extremely easy to install, using contact adhesive. No more delays, these will be completed this weekend!



Im guessing they were not completed last weekend.
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post #68 of 108 Old 12-21-2015, 09:29 AM
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How can we live vicariously through this project if you aren't giving us the updates and more speaker pr0n??

GET BACK TO WORK!!!
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post #69 of 108 Old 12-21-2015, 11:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Im guessing they were not completed last weekend.
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How can we live vicariously through this project if you aren't giving us the updates and more speaker pr0n??

GET BACK TO WORK!!!
Sorry, got 1 built last weekend, listened to it all week, and got a 2nd one built this weekend. Listened in stereo all of Sunday. I'll post impressions and pictures soon.
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post #70 of 108 Old 12-21-2015, 01:08 PM - Thread Starter
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A couple quick pics showing the stuffing in the midrange chamber. I also took a pic of the CD crossover and CD/Waveguide installed. The mid/woofer crossover was attached the same way on the other side of the midrange chamber.





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post #71 of 108 Old 12-21-2015, 01:27 PM - Thread Starter
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IMPRESSIONS:

I've been listening to 2 x 1899 in stereo for the past couple days now. I'll need more time to let the drivers fully break in and listen to more material, but I think I can share my initial opinion now and maybe do a follow up a few weeks later. I understand that most of this will be subjective...I'll try my best to not be biased. The best I can really do is compare the 1899 to other speakers that I've heard in the same environment, so I've listed them below. I've also mostly listened to music (jazz, classical, acapella, edm, house, rap, hip hop, punk, rock) and only a few movie scenes. I feel like it's easier to do "critical listening" with music rather than movies. I already knew the 1899 would provide more than enough headroom/volume for even the loudest movie scenes, so I focused on music instead, for this review. That being said, running these full range for some of my favorite movies scenes was pretty great.

Speakers I've experienced in my home:
Curt's Sealed Aviatrix
Part Express RS722
Clearwave Dynamic 4TSE
DIYSG Pure 10
JBL JRX125 ("Pro" speaker, closest to the 1899)

Highs (FL-450 on SEOS 15): Best I've heard in my home. Similar sound to the DNA-205/SEOS 10 combo on my Pure 10's, but more refined. The first time I listened to the Pure 10's, it was a real eye opener. I feel like listening to the 1899 high's took that one step further, hearing even more detail than what I've experienced on the Pure 10's. I feel like the high's on the 1899 may be a touch more laid back than on the Pure 10's, but that may just be because the 1899's have much more of a mid/low presence than the Pure 10's. Compared to the JBL JRX125, the 1899 certainly beats it in every way. The JBL's would go loud, but sounded harsh at all levels for me. I am very pleased with the highs on the 1899 and wouldn't change a thing.

Mids (12" Eminence Deltalite): Best I've heard in my home. I first experienced what really good mids could sound like with the Clearwave Dynamic 4TSE. Something about a dedicated midrange has always stood out for me. The mids on the 1899 are again what I consider "one step better" than the Dynamic 4TSE. It might be the high sensitivity, or the large amount of speaker cone dedicated to the mids, or both, but it sounds phenomenal. Everything in the mid range just "comes alive". I am very pleased with the mids on the 1899 and wouldn't change a thing.

Lows (2 x 18" Eminence Sigma 18A): Best I've heard in my home. I ended up with a tuning somewhere around 35-40Hz. I never really planned to run these full range for any material, as I'll eventually have them crossed over to multiple SI HT-18 drivers. But other than a few dubstep songs that I know dig really deep, the 18's were able to put out everything I had hoped for and more. I know it's been stated in a few places that bwaslo tuned the woofers "hot" in the crossovers, but I'll mentioned here again, there is definitely a native "bass boost" on this speaker. Not a ton, but noticeable. I am a basshead, and I've always felt the need to apply some eq to get a good full low end (on IEM's, large headphones, and speakers). This is the first time I haven't felt the need to apply any eq. It honestly just sounds perfect to me out-of-the box. Just like many other guys on this forum, I've always been on the hunt for that awesome midbass punch/chest kick/dynamic feel that you experience at concerts. This is the first time that I've been able to produce this in my own home. Of course it takes high volume to get there, but cranking 2 of these in stereo is absolutely able to get my lungs/organs moving. It's probably my favorite thing about this speaker so far. It just puts a smile on my face that I can't get rid of. I am very pleased with the lows on the 1899 and wouldn't change a thing.

Different Levels of Volume (I used an UMIK-1 placed around 6-8 ft from both speakers to get an idea of the overall volume level in room):

Low/Medium (50-80dB, C-weighted): For some reason, I had the worry in my mind that these huge drivers wouldn't be able to accurately produce good sound at low levels. I was definitely wrong. They sound great in this range. It almost sounds like it's got Dynamic Volume (A feature on Onkyo receivers I've owned) built in. The bass and mids don't disappear like you would expect at low volume.

Loud (80-110dB, C-weighted): This is where dreams come true. You start to feel the midbass, everything in the room shakes...it sounds like you're 20 ft away from the band at a live concert. I don't think any of the drivers are any where near being stressed at these levels.

Stupid Loud (110-120dB, C-weighted): I wore ear plugs for these levels. I can handle the mids and lows at this level without ear plugs, but the highs are just ear piercing. I did briefly crank it up until REW showed 120dB. I thought maybe I could find the 1899's limits, but I think I just found my own instead. Even as it was just ridiculously loud, I did not hear any major distortion or artifacts. I'm not sure about the CD, but I could see that excursion on the midrange and woofers wasn't reaching dangerous levels yet either. After that experience, I'm pretty sure my Hypex amp would run out of juice before the 1899 would. Needless to say, I won't ever run music that loud again, and even at +5 over reference for movies (I usually listen at reference), I don't think they would quite reach that level either.

Overall, I couldn't be happier with this speaker. It honestly just sounds so much better than anything else I've ever heard. My biggest goal was achieving serious midbass that you can feel, and the 1899's pour it out with like 2-3mm of excursion on the 18's.

Bwaslo, if you ever see this, this is an awesome design and speaker. Thank you for putting in the work and making the plans available to the DIY community.

Erich, as always, thanks for getting the baffles and all of the components together and offering it as a kit. I counted, and we sent a total of 82 e-mails over 8 months LOL. I appreciate your patience and efforts to help me get these built.

I'd really like for more guys to come by and hear these speakers so we can get some more impressions out there. If anyone lives in or is visiting the DFW area, send me a PM and we can set something up. I think BCRSS and I will still try to set up a local GTG sometime in January.

BTW, that's a 70" TV in the pic.

EDIT: At some point, I will lug one of these outside and try to get some good measurements. If I do, I'll post them here.








Last edited by Patzig; 12-21-2015 at 01:37 PM.
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post #72 of 108 Old 12-21-2015, 03:09 PM
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I'm so glad someone has finally been able to hear these monsters. They're truly awesome at all volumes without ever worrying if you're going to max something out other than your own ears.

Just a quick reminder on the speaker's history: As luck would have it Bwaslo lived close by and helped me a lot with the SEOS project, but about 1.5 years ago he was going to be moving to the other side of the country. I really wanted a monster speaker kit but knew there'd be no way to ship these prototypes to another speaker designer, so they had to be worked on at the shop. I drew out what I was hoping for, and of course Bill thought I was crazy, so I knew it was going to be perfect. First was a single 18" woofer Maximus-18, then an insane dual woofer model we called the 1899. I wanted to use the best parts possible for these speakers, but still stay under $1000 for the kit, so we started with B&C mids and B&C subs. The FL-450 compression driver is the best compression driver I've heard and the SEOS-15 is the sweet spot in the SEOS line up.

Both of the designs were worked on around the same time and I believe more effort was put into this speaker than any other design so far. We went through 3 different midranges and settled on the 12" Deltalite as the best sounding one, even over the B&C. As soon as we tweaked the crossover for the Deltalite we knew it was the right one to use. The 18" Sigma woofers were perfect for the box volume we were after and they can really pump out the bass without being crazy expensive. The B&C 18" woofer was nice, but I didn't think it brought anything extra to the dual woofer 1899.

While listening to the single 18" woofer model I kept turning up the bass to get the sound I like, just like most people around here probably do. I believe the only way to make a speaker sound like that right out of the box is to design a crossover to pull the mids and highs down much lower than the woofer, which can really kill the speakers overall sensitivity. But when we worked on the dual woofer 1899, we had plenty of extra bass efficiency to use without the need to pull the midrange and highs down. So I asked Bill if we could make this a bass heavy speaker without any boost needed......just the way I like it! I figured anyone crazy enough to build the 1899 wants a lot of bass and probably has an insane subwoofer system running hot as well. So that was my goal of the 1899. Bill might correct me on the technical terms, but I believe the mids and compression driver are around 99db/watt while the 18's are around 103db - 104db......basically 4-5db hot in the midbass region. Likely more if it was pushed back in a corner or tight up against the wall. The speaker could probably be labeled as an 18104, but didn't really have the same ring to it as 1899.

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post #73 of 108 Old 12-21-2015, 04:14 PM
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1899 LCR Build

Great write up on the 1899's I bet those monsters really sound great! You did a really good job on the finish as well enjoy your new 1899's!!!
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post #74 of 108 Old 12-22-2015, 04:18 AM
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@ Patzig Great write up. Hoping to see and hear the 1899's when holidays and life settles down a bit. By any chance did you get a chance to weigh them? Just curious..


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post #75 of 108 Old 12-22-2015, 05:02 AM
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Great job bro & like you i don't have the WAF either I'm looking to do something similar when i get my home next summer...

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post #76 of 108 Old 12-22-2015, 08:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Great write up on the 1899's I bet those monsters really sound great! You did a really good job on the finish as well enjoy your new 1899's!!!
Thank man. They currently just have 2 coats of kilz primer, but will eventually be black. I kind of like the look of them right now, they certainly pop in the living room.

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@ Patzig Great write up. Hoping to see and hear the 1899's when holidays and life settles down a bit. By any chance did you get a chance to weigh them? Just curious..
Thanks bruh. I actually did try to weigh them, but couldn't get the digital scale to cooperate. It said it would weigh up to 450lbs, but it was throwing me an error. I'll try again later today. If I had to guess, it's 150-200 lbs.

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Great job bro & like you i don't have the WAF either I'm looking to do something similar when i get my home next summer...
Thanks man. If you've got the space, this speaker is a beast, you won't be disappointed.
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post #77 of 108 Old 12-22-2015, 09:19 AM
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Thank man. They currently just have 2 coats of kilz primer, but will eventually be black. I kind of like the look of them right now, they certainly pop in the living room.
I would never have though so, but I really like the white finish on these in your room, makes them sort of a feature rather than just some huge box looming over the room.

Thanks for the update and congrats on your new toys!
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post #78 of 108 Old 12-22-2015, 11:40 AM
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Nice review! Speakers look great man, good job!
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post #79 of 108 Old 12-24-2015, 11:31 PM
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Thanks for the review. Think these are going to be my new towers in the future.
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post #80 of 108 Old 01-13-2016, 07:18 AM - Thread Starter
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I saw your post earlier WereWolf, but I guess you deleted it?

The mid is the Eminence Deltalite II 2512 Neo 12".

No huge updates...I'm still enjoying them in my living room for now. They do sound even better to me now that the drivers have been broken in. Just can't get over how good music sounds on them. I have demoed them for a few friends and family (non-enthusiasts). Pretty much everyone looks at me like I'm an idiot when I tell them how much they cost, how much work I put into building them and how big they are. But then after the demo, everyone says something along the lines of "I get it now".

I'm gonna be pretty sad when I move these into the theater...I might seriously consider buying another pair for the living room lol. I follow the "Just purchased a pair of JBL 4722n speakers" thread, and most of the owners there all claim that after owning the 4722, they haven't ever felt the need to upgrade or keep looking for a new speaker to try. The 1899 is absolutely that speaker for me.
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post #81 of 108 Old 01-19-2016, 09:48 AM
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Have you finished up the center and moved to theater room for some real movie impressions?
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post #82 of 108 Old 01-19-2016, 12:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Have you finished up the center and moved to theater room for some real movie impressions?
No, on both questions unfortunately. It will be another 2-3 months before the new theater room is ready to be equipped, so it will be a while. I've been making good progress on the room though...it's just a ton of work to build a room from scratch. I don't think I'm going to have a build thread for it, but I may post completed theater pics here or in other threads. It's a bit of an experiment...I'm building a "room within a room" in my garage. Unlike most guys who use isolation clips/rails and attach walls/ceiling to the existing room it's contained in...my room is completely self standing. The floor joists sit on rubber u-boats on the concrete slab. All walls and ceiling are spaced 3-4 inches off of the garages existing walls and ceiling with NO contact in between...just insulation+air. Normally it wouldn't be a good idea to build a room like this with such little support, but my floor, walls and ceiling are all 5 layers thick of 5/8" OSB. I'm basically building a huge self standing box. I call it the "OSB Bunker". I also ended up using 2x8 ceiling joists on 12" spacing to support that many layers up top. I'm hoping that between true decoupling and 2" thick OSB walls, I'll get decent sound proofing, keeping a low noise floor inside the room, and hopefully keeping sound from escaping. I know 2" OSB still won't be enough to fully stop <80Hz frequencies, but I'm hoping I can make a dent in it.

When I was "designing" the room, I originally planned to run 2 or 3 layers of OSB and/or drywall along with green glue. After adding up the costs of green glue, I quickly realized I could purchase many more layers of OSB for around the same cost. Green glue isn't very effective at stopping <80Hz frequencies, if at all. I think 2" thick OSB will be at least somewhat effective. As far as mids and highs, I'm pretty sure 2" OSB will be just as effective at stopping those frequencies as a drywall-green glue-drywall combo would be. One concern I do have about NOT using green glue is resonance. But anyway, the extra cost of an additional 4 layers of OSB to the entire room was only around $1k...so even if it's not very effective at all, I won't be too upset. It's just alot of work installing ~180 sheets of OSB lol. This whole build is kind of an experiment..one day when I can afford it, I'll do it right and build a concrete bunker

The finished interior space of the room will be 19' long x 12' wide x 8' feet high. Certainly not a big room, but I'm hoping the symmetrical rectangular shape and low ceiling will provide a decent in room response and low end boost.

A few pics of my progress so far:

Home Depot dropping it all off




The stack was 6' high lol.








Rented a drywall lift and got 3 of the ceiling layers done this weekend. That lift might be my most favorite tool I've ever used.
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post #83 of 108 Old 01-19-2016, 03:54 PM
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Dang man, that's quite the adventure lol. The drywall lift is def handy, I've used them before. Man handling that stuff above your head without it sucks to no end. I can't imagine having to hang 180 sheets bro...
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post #84 of 108 Old 01-19-2016, 04:08 PM
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I hope those ceiling joists can hold the weight of 4 layers of OSB!!!! :0

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post #85 of 108 Old 01-19-2016, 10:20 PM
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Call it a tornado shelter,

2 inches thick of OSB? Mighty nice bunker you are building...and it should be quite solid for the next few hundred years.
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post #86 of 108 Old 01-21-2016, 12:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Dang man, that's quite the adventure lol. The drywall lift is def handy, I've used them before. Man handling that stuff above your head without it sucks to no end. I can't imagine having to hang 180 sheets bro...
Yeah, I'm not a huge fan of working above head. We've got impact drills though...that definitely helps.

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I hope those ceiling joists can hold the weight of 4 layers of OSB!!!! :0
We entered the data into some online calculators. 2x8's on 12" centers will actually hold much more weight than 5 layers on a 13' span.

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Call it a tornado shelter,

2 inches thick of OSB? Mighty nice bunker you are building...and it should be quite solid for the next few hundred years.
Lol, I actually considered that. It certainly will be the "safest" room in the house once it's complete.
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post #87 of 108 Old 01-22-2016, 02:52 PM
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Just found this thread, Patzig. Not sure I've seen many 1899 build if any yet but this will be my first if there were some. I like that you have decided to build three for identical LCR's. They look beastly! Should be pretty awesome HT when your CC is done. Interested in seeing your room build wrapped up as well.
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post #88 of 108 Old 01-29-2016, 10:48 AM
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Are you going to put the Pure 10s in columns?
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post #89 of 108 Old 02-04-2016, 09:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Just found this thread, Patzig. Not sure I've seen many 1899 build if any yet but this will be my first if there were some. I like that you have decided to build three for identical LCR's. They look beastly! Should be pretty awesome HT when your CC is done. Interested in seeing your room build wrapped up as well.
Thanks Scott. Can't wait for the room construction to be done so I can move the speakers/subs/acoustics in and start working on measurements, filters and tuning.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NanPatterson View Post
Are you going to put the Pure 10s in columns?
Nah, I don't think so. The room is already very narrow, so I think I'll have to suspend them in the wall/ceiling corners.
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post #90 of 108 Old 02-27-2016, 04:33 AM
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Patzig,

Where in FTW are you located? I don't see too many people from this area on here.
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