1299 Speaker Layout - Page 2 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #31 of 112 Old 01-23-2016, 11:36 PM
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The height is also related to the need for volume. So if kept short with corner ports then the cab needs to be made deeper.

Auto eq should give people adequate midbass unless someone wants colored midbass. Some people like it jacked up 6db. Nobody is going to design a speaker inherently that midbass strong (though the iwata 300 design I recently did for kingpin may be close). The problem is what the room does to the midbass, and auto eq is supposed to address those issues. Doesn't matter if the midbass is excessively hot, if there's a big suckout at 100hz.

The reason for the larger seos designs are this:

1. Controlled dorectivity to a lower frequency.
2. Higher sensitivity (the 893 just could never make it to 99db because it's to small).
3. Output capability.

There may be more.

Going sealed has its benefits. So does ported. So I leave it up to all of you to decide that. But I caution choosing ported for midbass. If midbass is the 60 to 150hz range give or take, then sealed has plenty of it. Especially if your room has a constructive mode around 60hz. The main reason to want to go ported is bass extension.
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post #32 of 112 Old 01-24-2016, 06:07 AM
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What woofer are you using? I'd want to know how to expect it to perform before picking an alignment.
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post #33 of 112 Old 01-24-2016, 06:17 AM
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@tuxedocivic - what sort of extension can we expect with the ported enclosure? Until this announcement, I was expecting a pair of your 1099's + mbm-12's for my 2-ch set-up.
@Erich H - is there anyway the ports for the vented version can be incorporated within the flat pack itself? ie. eliminating the plastic ports and building the slots into the cabinet. That way we'd have a 40" tall single baffle option for ported & sealed? This would alleviate the shipping/production with BB limitations.

Not sure what the consensus is by moving the horn at the top. It'd be welcomed for my application (tower style, no stands).
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post #34 of 112 Old 01-24-2016, 06:30 AM
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Even if you baked in 6db of hot mid bass, auto eq would likely cut it away.
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post #35 of 112 Old 01-24-2016, 07:09 AM
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Originally Posted by Samps View Post
Even if you baked in 6db of hot mid bass, auto eq would likely cut it away.
Audyssey would. But manual PEQ, YPAO, MCACC, Dirac, Audiolense, etc all allow either a custom target curve or custom settings after running room correction.

But I agree no need for 6db hot mid bass.
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post #36 of 112 Old 01-24-2016, 07:49 AM
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The other issue with cooked midbass is the lack of efficiency everywhere else in the speaker bandwidth. The 1099 would be the 1095 if the midbass was hot. So even if someone had a good reason to put a lot of midbass into the design, the efficiency loss would be a perfect counter argument.
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post #37 of 112 Old 01-24-2016, 07:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Rear ports isn't a good thing because many people use these backed right up to a wall. Corner ports wouldn't make the cabinet any smaller, probably bigger. They're triangles versus the narrow slot ports I have.

The woofer is the Delta-12B. I'd say porting them in a workable sized enclosure that wasn't crazy big would give strong output at 60hz.

I was just hoping to cut one baffle for the pictures and get the ported/sealed thing figured out. Hopefully we can decide so I know what flat packs to get ordered. I'm leaning towards sealed and all Baltic birch, one layer front panel like the 1099. That should put the cabinet around 50 - 55lbs. Ported would need to be about 4cuft......and 4cuft MDF subwoofers weigh in at 67lbs and are a bear to package and ship.

The one good thing about a front panel with no ports is that they could easily be glued on the front of a 55" tall tower cabinet and just put two 4" ports below the baffle. If I was going ported, that's the way I would personally build them anyway. I'll never be able to ship 55" tall flat packs due to packaging, weight, and cost of shipping, unless it's done on a pallet.

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post #38 of 112 Old 01-24-2016, 09:03 AM
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Regardless of it being ported or sealed--a subwoofer will be needed for 60hz & below. For me it doesn't matter, but the one things that concerns me is the height of the CD. As others have mentioned-- if you can put it on top and the mids under it and then the 2 woofs at the bottom with either each woof in a sealed section or both combined. What is the disadvantage of doing this--iow what is lost? And if nothing is lost--could you make this baffle optional--kinda like the Center layout will be optional?

Which CD is being used?
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post #39 of 112 Old 01-24-2016, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by rondi View Post
Regardless of it being ported or sealed--a subwoofer will be needed for 60hz & below. For me it doesn't matter, but the one things that concerns me is the height of the CD. As others have mentioned-- if you can put it on top and the mids under it and then the 2 woofs at the bottom with either each woof in a sealed section or both combined. What is the disadvantage of doing this--iow what is lost? And if nothing is lost--could you make this baffle optional--kinda like the Center layout will be optional?
In my case and I suspect a lot of others, I need to stand these on my existing subs. My MLP in the theater is on a riser but even with the top and bottom woofer arrangement I would probably need to stand these "upside down" with the mids over the wavegulde. If they were only available with both woofers at the bottom, I would need to build my own baffles too.

Having said that, if there was an option for the two different vertical baffles and the center channel I think that would cover most customers.

I said earlier that I would prefer ported (and will build mine that way) but in Erich's post above I understand that making the baffles as sealed would be the most efficient for both the baffles and associated flat packs. I would be building my own cabinets anyway, so tweaking the cabinet to support the ports would be pretty straightforward.

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post #40 of 112 Old 01-24-2016, 10:37 AM - Thread Starter
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The smarter guys than me can explain why the woofer up top helps out with the overall design concept.

In the 44" tall ported version, if the waveguide/mids are put up on the top then there's only 4" under the bottom woofer to put in ports. So at that point, they either need to be sealed, or some type of built in slot port. If you can picture how think the remaining wood would be around the slot port, you can imagine why shipping it would not work out very well. The package would be 48" long, so it's always going to be dropped on the long ends. The precut slot port will never make it without getting broken during shipping. I could possibly have the cabinet company cut the slot half way through though to keep it rigid.

I've attached a drawing to show where I was going to put the horizontal braces in the normal alignment with the woofer on top. One good thing about that layout is that the mids and waveguide can be rotated for the center channel and fit the same flat pack with no change to bracing. That's a pretty big deal when you figure how much a run of 70 cost. I put the other layout next to the 40" and 44" flat packs to see where the bracing would be. It's doable, but would require some brace modifications.

Center of the waveguide is 35" up and 39" up on those. No problem getting baffles cut for any of these either way. I'm more or less trying to figure out the best way to do the flat packs.


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post #41 of 112 Old 01-24-2016, 10:45 AM
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Not sure what the consensus is by moving the horn at the top. It'd be welcomed for my application (tower style, no stands).
+1 for the CD on top; however, curious about the design concept comment from Erich.

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post #42 of 112 Old 01-24-2016, 11:22 AM
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Looked at the drawings,

Are they to scale and if so, are you using larger mids and horns? I'm assuming the SEOS 12 will be the horn and the 5" mids from the 1099 are in the recipe.

I'd vote ported but would get the sealed bezel. Once speakers get that large, time to make them towers so building a 55" tall version and porting it myself makes the most sense.

On the other hand, to some people on AVS a 55" tall speaker is a bookshelf speaker--or a surround.
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post #43 of 112 Old 01-24-2016, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by 18Hurts View Post
Looked at the drawings,

Are they to scale and if so, are you using larger mids and horns? I'm assuming the SEOS 12 will be the horn and the 5" mids from the 1099 are in the recipe.

I'd vote ported but would get the sealed bezel. Once speakers get that large, time to make them towers so building a 55" tall version and porting it myself makes the most sense.

On the other hand, to some people on AVS a 55" tall speaker is a bookshelf speaker--or a surround.
What on earth....

Erich, design this how YOU want it designed.

There is no single design to accommodate everyone's needs...Some are going to want the CD/Mids above the two 12b woofers so they won't have to build stands. But not everyone's LP is at the same height so back to square one. My vote is to keep the array the same as in the 893, the 1099, and the 1899. That just makes the most sense and it keeps the symmetry. If you want to add a couple of inches to the top and bottom of the baffle to add some height/space then by all means go for it. That will leave the option for people to add ports if they wanted to. If that poses a shipping issue due to overall length of the shipping box, then don't do it.

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post #44 of 112 Old 01-24-2016, 02:45 PM
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This should be sealed and designed for baffle wall use, IMO.

Unless you can get to full range (no sub) don't port.
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post #45 of 112 Old 01-24-2016, 04:34 PM
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Erich, have you built both versions and listened to them? Just curious. It seems like more people want the ported version but not by a large margin. It's also pretty obvous the sealed version would be much easier for you to make and ship. Ultimately I bet it'll be fantastic either way.

Sent from my LG-H901 using Tapatalk

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post #46 of 112 Old 01-28-2016, 05:03 AM
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+1 vented, since we're below schroeder, I would imagine extra response in that area would have some modal benefits.
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post #47 of 112 Old 01-28-2016, 08:27 AM
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I'm zero help, but just stoked for an option between the 1099 and 1899! If sealed helps you and others can mock up ways to turn them ported, seems like a win for sealed.

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post #48 of 112 Old 01-28-2016, 09:43 AM
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Just wondering if any measures have been taken or posted on these from Tux or Erich?


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post #49 of 112 Old 01-28-2016, 01:18 PM
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Would these be offer along with a flat pack or just a baffle?
Thinking I might like to try these and then sell Patzig my 1099's for over head ATMOS speakers to blend with his 1899's .
LOL. This looks awesome. We want pics Tux!!!
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post #50 of 112 Old 01-29-2016, 05:41 AM
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Just curious, is this something we're going to see in the diysg store soon-ish, perhaps a couple of weeks? I'm getting really close to my next build, and I'm 100% certain it's going to be something from diysg this time around, rather than another one of my own. It was between the 1099 and the Fusion 15 up until I saw this one pop up on the website.

I'm very interested in trying 3 of these, and I'll be ready to make a purchase in 2-3 weeks most likely. Will these be a possibility in that timeframe?
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post #51 of 112 Old 01-29-2016, 07:48 AM
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Question

Still mostly new to this so I was curious, if the 1299 went to 80hz, could I add a couple of MBM-12s down to 40hz, and then let the subs take care of anything lower?
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post #52 of 112 Old 01-29-2016, 08:46 AM - Thread Starter
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I have all the parts except the compression drivers. Those were shipped from the manufacturer about 2.5 weeks ago and it normally takes 30 days to get them. So everything should be here in a couple weeks. Not sure if flat packs will be ready by then though.

The 1299 will go up for preorder this weekend. 1099 goes up this evening.
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post #53 of 112 Old 01-29-2016, 08:47 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by NanPatterson View Post
Still mostly new to this so I was curious, if the 1299 went to 80hz, could I add a couple of MBM-12s down to 40hz, and then let the subs take care of anything lower?
Your subs should handle everything below 80hz easily.

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post #54 of 112 Old 01-29-2016, 08:55 AM
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I hope it doesn't "preorder-out" before I have the cash to order them in a few weeks :P
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post #55 of 112 Old 01-29-2016, 03:08 PM - Thread Starter
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With the 893, 1099, and now 1299, the demand will get divided out over more speakers, so I'm guessing they will stay in stock much much longer like the 893 does. There probably won't be a need for another preorder after this one, but who knows.
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post #56 of 112 Old 01-29-2016, 03:40 PM
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Is this getting a Bamboo Cab option? I was set to order 1099s this weekend, but now I'm not so sure.
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post #57 of 112 Old 01-29-2016, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, the cabinet guy can make the 1299 in bamboo. I'm not sure how much it would cost though, likely similar to the 1099. It always depends on how many rips they can get out of a sheet. Once you get over about 16" wide, you can no longer get 3 rips out of a sheet when you figure in the width of the router bit. Or when it works out to where there's only 6"-7" or so left, then it's basically wasted wood, but still has to be recovered in the cabinet price.

The only issue I see would be the 'waterfall' look when the bamboo is miter folded to make the box. The 1099 is about 36" tall. So 36" + 36" = 72". That leaves 24" to easily make the top panel and get a full 'waterfall' look, except the bottom that no one sees. On the 1299, if it was 40" tall, we'd be looking at side, top, side being a 95" section. That's really pushing it on a 96" rip. I'll need to check with the cabinet guy about that one.

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post #58 of 112 Old 01-29-2016, 05:06 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, the cabinet guy can make the 1299 in bamboo. I'm not sure how much it would cost though, likely similar to the 1099. It always depends on how many rips they can get out of a sheet. Once you get over about 16" wide, you can no longer get 3 rips out of a sheet when you figure in the width of the router bit. Or when it works out to where there's only 6"-7" or so left, then it's basically wasted wood, but still has to be recovered in the cabinet price.

The only issue I see would be the 'waterfall' look when the bamboo is miter folded to make the box. The 1099 is about 36" tall. So 36" + 36" = 72". That leaves 24" to easily make the top panel and get a full 'waterfall' look, except the bottom that no one sees. On the 1299, if it was 40" tall, we'd be looking at side, top, side being a 95" section. That's really pushing it on a 96" rip. I'll need to check with the cabinet guy about that one.

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post #59 of 112 Old 01-30-2016, 04:10 AM
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Yes, the cabinet guy can make the 1299 in bamboo.
That might get to be almost as expensive as the 1899 in mdf :P
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post #60 of 112 Old 01-30-2016, 06:47 AM
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Here's a picture. I normally have it on a 6 to 12" stand but wasn't using the speaker when I took the photo last night.

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