Tower of Power build with 893, MBM, Volt 6 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #1 of 100 Old 03-20-2016, 05:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Tower of Power build with 893, MBM, Volt 6

We recently bought a house and decided it was time for an upgrade to the living room system. In our old apartment, we had the Jamo S606 5 channel setup powered by a Denon AVR-1712 along with an Energy S10.3 subwoofer.

My wife and I like doing projects like this ourselves and now that we have a dedicated workshop, it made perfect sense to build our own DIYSG speakers. This will mainly be a build log for the towers, but I'm starting with the Volt 6's to 'warm up' and establish some processes before starting on the Towers of Power... Trump Towers... etc.

So here's some quick pics of the Volt 6 build.

Crossover assembled, glued, and soldered:



Holes routed for flush mount terminal cups:



T-nuts for mounting the driver:



Crossover mounted and 4 sides glued on and sealed:



Baffle attached:



Sanded smooth:



Acoustic foam added:



Prime and sand:



Both ready to go:



Painted to match the very light grey of the living room walls:






Haven't figured out what we're gonna do about grills yet, but they will have some type of grills to help them blend in and protect the driver.

They both work and sound good and are currently awaiting mounting hardware.

Next up is the towers. This is the intended design. I'm really hoping they'll sound and measure well where I want to put them so the one piece design works out. It's an 893 sitting on top of a midbass module.

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post #2 of 100 Old 03-20-2016, 05:16 PM
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interested to see how your 893 w/ midbass module works out. the volt 6 and 893's are my speakers of choice (along with a fusion 4 for a center.) I made the 893 into a tower rather than using a midbass module. keep up the good work.
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post #3 of 100 Old 03-20-2016, 06:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Yeah I'm really excited to hear how it turns out.

On to the 893's...

Got the crossover boards from Matt and put them together without issue:



Started the same way as the Volts by routing out the hole for the terminal cup:



Then glue up the sides of the first one:



However, there was an issue here. I was really frustrated when this happened but I'm posting this so nobody makes the same mistake. The back board with the cuts for the braces looks symmetrical, but it isn't. I wanted the terminal cup to be at the bottom of the enclosure, but I found after prepping to put the baffle on that the brace would be blocking the waveguide unless the baffle was reversed so that the terminal was at the top. So either add your terminals after it's all assembled, or make sure you know which is the top and bottom before you cut the hole...

I used the plug cut out by the hole saw, as well as a new routed piece to fill the old terminal hole and cut the new one. You can see all the caulk around it on the right here. Lame...



T-nuts for all drivers:



Crossover installed and wires ran:



Compression driver bolted to waveguide and gasket installed:



For the flush mount look, I had intended to make another 1/4" baffle to mount behind the main baffle to be able to sink the woofers in further while still having enough wood to be stable. But I couldn't find a router bit locally that could do it properly, so I decided to shave down the front foam gasket on the woofers, since that's what sticks out.

It's now more or less in line with the surround:



Flush with no wood cutting



Baffle installed and brought inside for testing:



Next to my S606 towers with the drivers installed, along with most of a Walmart polyfill pillow worth of stuffing:



I just played it for a couple minutes to function test. Additional efficiency was immediately noticeable, as well as the corresponding increase in dynamic abilities. These are gonna be good!

Now time to finish the other one...
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post #4 of 100 Old 03-20-2016, 07:40 PM
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How did you trim the foam gasket on your 893 woofers.?.....looks factory fresh !
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post #5 of 100 Old 03-20-2016, 09:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Very carefully. I had a spare Eminence 8 to test my idea on. At first I tried to just trim it from the top, but it left an unfinished surface. So what I ended up doing was trimming off a piece the thickness I wanted, removing the remainder from the speaker, then gluing the piece I trimmed off with the finished top edge back on.

Not necessarily something I'd recommend everyone go out and try, but for me it was quicker, cheaper, and easier than buying the right router bit to be able to make the flush cut slightly deeper and having it shipped.
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post #6 of 100 Old 03-21-2016, 08:31 PM
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Looking forward to seeing how the towers turn out.

DIYSG 893 | Emotiva ERD-1 | Dual DIY 18" Subs
Emotiva XMC-1 | XPA-2 | XPA-5 | Dual Crown XLS 2502
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post #7 of 100 Old 03-22-2016, 05:15 AM
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Still going to attach a mdm module to the bottom like you show in the mock up picture?


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Denon AVR-X4500
Pair of Volt 6's for surrounds
1099, Volt 6, Volt 6 Atmos builds
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post #8 of 100 Old 03-22-2016, 09:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Yes, that is the plan. I'm finishing up the second 893 while waiting on the MBM flat packs. As you can see the 893's are too short compared to the old towers. The additional 26"of height from the MBM will put the waveguide at ear level.

Where do you guys get your veneer?
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post #9 of 100 Old 03-22-2016, 10:39 AM
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I've ordered some through here:

http://veneersupplies.com/

DIYSG 893 | Emotiva ERD-1 | Dual DIY 18" Subs
Emotiva XMC-1 | XPA-2 | XPA-5 | Dual Crown XLS 2502
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post #10 of 100 Old 03-22-2016, 10:45 AM
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Wilson Art Laminate has my vote over a veneer.

This build looks awesome so far. Looking forward to the 893 with the MBM build.

------------------------------------------------
Receiver : Denon x5200
Front Stage : L/R - Statements by Jim Holtz
Surround Speakers : Klipsch RF-82II x 4 / RP-280F x 2
Subwooferage : 6 UM18/4 HT18 Subwoofer Log
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post #11 of 100 Old 03-22-2016, 08:51 PM - Thread Starter
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I need veneer sheets that are at least 17" wide so I can cover a side of the enclosure with one piece. Most of them were pretty narrow on that first site unless I'm looking in the wrong place.

I'll check out the laminate. No prices listed.. any idea how much the stuff costs? Looks pretty nice, and guessing it's more durable than veneer. That'd be nice.

Anyway, onto build updates - both make sound now!

Let the baffle glue dry overnight clamped down so when I got home today I ran the flush trim bit and sander over everything then brought it inside. I also trimmed a 1/4" MDF piece to the same size as the baffles which I'll eventually rout out to be a grill frame.

Stuffed with polyfill:



Drivers installed and set up for some stereo testing:




I'm currently sitting on the floor listening to them. No EQ, crossover at 60Hz. I'm liking them very much. The increase in dynamic impact over the old speakers is my favorite part so far. Definitely adds a feeling of realism. Listened to a track with an orchestra component and I can just see the bows sliding over the strings of the instruments. Snare drum punch is vastly improved. All drums are very tight. Not as punchy below 80Hz as my old towers, but that was expected and will be more than made up for by the Magnum 12 below them once I get them in. This room is also pretty lively with nothing on the walls yet, so some treatment and a bit of room EQ will only help.

So far I'm very happy with the quality of the kits and the sound I'm getting. Once I'm done listening to a bunch of stuff I'll take some measurements.
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post #12 of 100 Old 03-23-2016, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strakele View Post
I need veneer sheets that are at least 17" wide so I can cover a side of the enclosure with one piece. Most of them were pretty narrow on that first site unless I'm looking in the wrong place.
You must have been on the wrong page as they sell 2' and 4' widths by 8' long.

http://www.veneersupplies.com/catego...acked__Veneer/


DIYSG 893 | Emotiva ERD-1 | Dual DIY 18" Subs
Emotiva XMC-1 | XPA-2 | XPA-5 | Dual Crown XLS 2502
Samsung 58" Plasma | BenQ HT1075 100" Screen
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post #13 of 100 Old 03-23-2016, 08:27 PM - Thread Starter
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Derp. I was looking in the raw wood veneer section. Thanks lol.
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post #14 of 100 Old 03-25-2016, 09:20 AM - Thread Starter
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Made some frames for grills. This was a pain. 1/4 MDF is annoying to work with, especially when it's cut into narrow strips like this.

Anyway, flush trimmed some sheets to the front baffles then rough cut out the center:



Flush trimmed the inside edges to a 1/2" template I made



Slight bevel on the outside edge and slight roundover on the inside edge. I know the MDF on MDF contrast in these pictures is awesome..



And a thin metal rod in the middle to keep the frame from bowing in when grill cloth is stretched over it. Otherwise, 100% open area in front of all drivers. These are more for cosmetics than physical protection at this point, but it would be easy to add a few more metal rods for some actual protection qualities as well.



Some black paint and a bit of grill cloth, as well as some grill guide pegs from PE and they'll be done.

They will have to be modified by adding the tapering angle down toward the wider base once that's built, but that shouldn't be hard. I probably won't actually wrap them in cloth till that's done.
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post #15 of 100 Old 03-25-2016, 09:44 AM
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Looking good. I would make the lower portion grill a totally separate piece with a couple inches between the two......probably what you were going to do anyway
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post #16 of 100 Old 03-25-2016, 10:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Yeah, the grill for the lower portion will be a separate piece but the grill for the top section will need to widen toward the bottom like the enclosure ultimately will. If I just had 2 separate rectangular grills, the section where the enclosure is tapering would just have these 2 awkward exposed triangles on the sides which would be weird.

But I need to get the bottom section built up and tested to ensure I'll be happy with them as towers before combining everything.
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post #17 of 100 Old 03-25-2016, 03:46 PM
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If you haven't got your grill cloth yet--check out JoAnns. I had a hard time finding--so I asked for grill cloth and the woman took me right it--nice and black. I bought 2ft x 66in the other day--It comes 66" so you buy whatever you need. It was like $9/yard. It is similar to what I used years ago when I built speakers, but very black.
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post #18 of 100 Old 03-25-2016, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I'll probably end up doing that. I have some here but not enough to do the whole thing including the bottom section most likely. And since I've had it for years, it probably won't be a perfect match to whatever I'd get as a supplement.
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post #19 of 100 Old 03-25-2016, 10:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Broke out the measurement gear tonight and got some... interesting results. All of these were taken with full range pink noise using a Dayton EMM-6 microphone in TrueRTA at 1/24 octave resolution, no smoothing, with 50 continuous averages while moving the mic in a 6-9" circle around the MLP.

First up, the Volt 6's.



I hadn't really listened to these other than to function test until now. The drastic increase in highs in one of them is absolutely apparent when listening as well as in the measurement. Judging by this, I'm thinking one of the resistors meant to knock down the output of the compression driver is bad in one of the kits. Tough to believe it's a bad joint... my solder points were clean and strong:



Any ideas? The DCR of both speakers is within 0.1 ohms of each other, but that doesn't tell the whole story obviously. I switched the left and right speakers just to make sure, and the issue moved as well, so it's nothing else in the signal chain or room.



And here's the 893's, sitting on the floor:



Blue is left and sorta near a corner which is why the low end response is so different from the right which is near a large doorway. Both have the substantial dip in the 400-500Hz range. Looks almost like the mids are out of phase with the woofers around the crossover point? I wired the boards per Matt's diagram. I used different color wire and different color terminals for positive and negative so it's extraordinarily unlikely that I mixed all 4 of them up in the same way...

Since the old Jamo towers and the Volts tested in the same location didn't have this dip, I assume it's not a room issue. But since those were well above the ground while the mids in the 893s are only like 10-12 inches above the ground, I put one up on a little plastic drawer thing that's almost the same height as the MBMs will be to give me an idea of the response I can expect once they're sitting on top of those as planned. Unfortunately, it's even worse:



Green is left 893 sitting on the ground, blue is sitting on a 24" tall platform. I'm not too concerned about the drop in output below 150-200Hz since the MBM will cover that region with authority, but the big dip at 400Hz followed by the large peak at 900-1000Hz doesn't seem awesome. Audyssey can probably fix a good bit of it but I'm wondering if there's something else I should do first.

Appreciate any thoughts.
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post #20 of 100 Old 03-26-2016, 08:27 AM
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It's hard for me to say what is going on with the 893's since I don't have any of the design files for those and can't do some quick crossover troubleshooting. Maybe @tuxedocivic will jump in with his thoughts.

The Volt-6's almost look like you have one wired up with both 8.2 ohm resistors and the other with both 2.2 ohm, or you got sent an 8.2 ohm instead of a 2.2 ohm by mistake on one. It might be hard to visually check now with the coil glued down on top but you should be able to use a multimeter to check the inner resistor (parallel with HF output) should be 2.2 ohms. Obviously unplug the drivers while doing this as they would change the reading.
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post #21 of 100 Old 03-26-2016, 08:50 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
The Volt-6's almost look like you have one wired up with both 8.2 ohm resistors and the other with both 2.2 ohm, or you got sent an 8.2 ohm instead of a 2.2 ohm by mistake on one. It might be hard to visually check now with the coil glued down on top but you should be able to use a multimeter to check the inner resistor (parallel with HF output) should be 2.2 ohms. Obviously unplug the drivers while doing this as they would change the reading.

Bingo. Both resistors are 8.2 ohm in the one with the louder high end. Good call. They are correct in the other one.
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post #22 of 100 Old 03-26-2016, 10:11 PM
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That really looks like an out of phase mids problem. They cross right around 500hz. Not sure about the peak at 1khz and why it's changing so much with height. That's right in the meat of the mids bandpass. I'd say figuring out the dip may clarify what is happening there.

What is the polarity on the mids you wired? Does MTG's board already account for polarity?

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post #23 of 100 Old 03-26-2016, 11:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
What is the polarity on the mids you wired? Does MTG's board already account for polarity?
Yes. I wired them per this diagram. It takes into account the fact that the polarity of the compression driver should be switched relative to the mids/woofers.



I'll try reversing the wires tomorrow.

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post #24 of 100 Old 03-27-2016, 08:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Alright, here's a comparison the response with the mids wired out of phase:



Green is in phase, blue is out of phase. So I think they were wired right to begin with, judging by the even lower output at 350-400Hz, as well as the dip at 2KHz at the crossover between the mids and compression driver.

Now what? I did check the location and value of each component of the crossover on these before installing them, so I don't think it's an issue like the one Volt that just had an incorrect component in the kit.
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post #25 of 100 Old 03-27-2016, 11:16 AM
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Could this be something mechanical - like a mid chamber the wrong size or not sealed? Or maybe something wrong with the midrange driver?
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post #26 of 100 Old 03-27-2016, 11:26 AM
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The newer mid-range drivers are sealed. Could it be room related? The left speaker is rather close to that piece of furniture.

DIYSG 893 | Emotiva ERD-1 | Dual DIY 18" Subs
Emotiva XMC-1 | XPA-2 | XPA-5 | Dual Crown XLS 2502
Samsung 58" Plasma | BenQ HT1075 100" Screen
Nvidia Shield | Oppo BDP-103 Bluray Player
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post #27 of 100 Old 03-27-2016, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
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I've measured 3 sets of speakers in this same location - Jamo S606, 893, and Volt 6 - and only the 893 have the midrange dip, so I eliminated room effects as a possibility due to that. And both speakers have it - left and right. Left is near a corner right by a couch, right is the same distance from the back wall but with nothing to the side except an open doorway.

They are currently placed wider than the above picture shows with more toe-in as I've been testing sweet spot size vs toe-in angle. No effect on the dip in the midrange.

I found another thread where someone was complaining of hollow tinny midrange from the 893. I certainly wouldn't say these sound bad at all. The hollowness in the midrange is only barely detectable - the peakiness at 1KHz was a bit more noticeable. With a bit of cut there I'm not dissatisfied with how they sound at all. The detail and dynamics is overall great. After seeing the response graphs though, I can't help but wonder if there's something I can do to make them even better before EQ. That's all.

After wiring the mids back in normal polarity, I did some manual EQ in the AVR. Mostly very minor tweaks except for a fairly large 3-4dB boost at 500Hz followed by a 3-4dB cut at 1KHz and now have this graph. This is left and right combined:


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post #28 of 100 Old 03-27-2016, 11:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Looking around the forum for other measurements, I found nix4me's response graph of his 893's:




Looks very similar to mine with the large dip at 400-500Hz followed by the big peak at 900-1000Hz.
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post #29 of 100 Old 03-30-2016, 08:13 PM
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post #30 of 100 Old 03-31-2016, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strakele View Post

I found another thread where someone was complaining of hollow tinny midrange from the 893.


That guy was listening to the midrange only, with the other drivers disconnected. Of course it will sound hollow and tinny that way.
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