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post #1 of 34 Old 05-07-2016, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Fusion 10 or Fusion 8??

As the title suggests I'm trying to make an informed decision on which pair to purchase. But my question is twofold in that I also want to know if its ok to "mix" ...

*Two Fusion 8 Alchemy's with an 893 as the center or
*Two Fusion 10 Pure's with a 1099 as the center

My plan is to purchase the speakers/flatpacks in stages (fronts, center, surrounds) since I've currently got my hands full with other projects around the house and my garage is already busting at the seams. Not to mention the fact that it gives my wallet a chance to recuperate from the infinite baffle project I just completed along with my self diagnosed obsession with all things Amazon Prime, but I digress.

My 7.(soon to be 4) setup will be based around 95% movie watching with the other 5% being split between gaming/music. I rarely listen at reference (maybe -10 below) so ear splitting volume isnt necessary but headroom is always appreciated. With that said, if going the Fusion 8/893 route will get me within arms reach of the same sound quality and dynamics of the Fusion 10/1099 combo, I'd more than welcome the cost savings. Any insight you guys can provide would be greatly appreciated
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post #2 of 34 Old 05-08-2016, 01:26 PM - Thread Starter
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Anybody?? I'd love to place an order sooner than later

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post #3 of 34 Old 05-08-2016, 06:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1st Cav View Post
As the title suggests I'm trying to make an informed decision on which pair to purchase. But my question is twofold in that I also want to know if its ok to "mix" ...

*Two Fusion 8 Alchemy's with an 893 as the center or
*Two Fusion 10 Pure's with a 1099 as the center

My plan is to purchase the speakers/flatpacks in stages (fronts, center, surrounds) since I've currently got my hands full with other projects around the house and my garage is already busting at the seams. Not to mention the fact that it gives my wallet a chance to recuperate from the infinite baffle project I just completed along with my self diagnosed obsession with all things Amazon Prime, but I digress.

My 7.(soon to be 4) setup will be based around 95% movie watching with the other 5% being split between gaming/music. I rarely listen at reference (maybe -10 below) so ear splitting volume isnt necessary but headroom is always appreciated. With that said, if going the Fusion 8/893 route will get me within arms reach of the same sound quality and dynamics of the Fusion 10/1099 combo, I'd more than welcome the cost savings. Any insight you guys can provide would be greatly appreciated
I don't have any real insight on the Fusion8/893 combo but will say that if it were me I would try and timbre match L/C/R. Since the 893 is designed by Tux and the Fusion 8's by Jeff Bagley my thought would be to use all Fusion 8's along with his center channel. This would create the best blend for all 3 (L/C/R) channels because all crossovers are made for them.
If you want the Fusion 10/1099 combo, I see no problem with that because Tux designed both of those crossovers and had said that the Fusion 10's would be a very close timbre match to the 1099's.
These are just my thought and you may get better advise from others with more knowledge.
Good Luck
Oh last word...I started as a 95% movie guy but once I had my 1099's and Volts installed , I find I listen to ALOT more music. Why? Because it sounds just so awesome now.
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post #4 of 34 Old 05-09-2016, 04:35 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by BCRSS View Post
I don't have any real insight on the Fusion8/893 combo but will say that if it were me I would try and timbre match L/C/R. Since the 893 is designed by Tux and the Fusion 8's by Jeff Bagley my thought would be to use all Fusion 8's along with his center channel. This would create the best blend for all 3 (L/C/R) channels because all crossovers are made for them.
If you want the Fusion 10/1099 combo, I see no problem with that because Tux designed both of those crossovers and had said that the Fusion 10's would be a very close timbre match to the 1099's.
These are just my thought and you may get better advise from others with more knowledge.
Good Luck
Oh last word...I started as a 95% movie guy but once I had my 1099's and Volts installed , I find I listen to ALOT more music. Why? Because it sounds just so awesome now.
Good point on the Fusion 8/893 combo and timbre matching. But I struggle to think that with all other parts between the Fusion 8 & 893 being the same (woofer, waveguide) that the crossovers are really THAT far apart in performance, but I most definitely could be wrong. Maybe @tuxedocivic @EricH or even @mtg90 could give some insight
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post #5 of 34 Old 05-09-2016, 08:17 AM
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How much vertical height do you have for your center? Reason I ask, is if you can fit it, use a trio of Fusion 10s for your LCR.
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post #6 of 34 Old 05-09-2016, 08:39 AM
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I'm very interested in this myself so hope someone chimes in soon that has heard a few of these. My thought was go with the fusion10 over the 8 because of the larger waveguide. Would there be a noticeable difference with the SEOS-10 guide over the 8? Especially for a less than ideal room?
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post #7 of 34 Old 05-09-2016, 12:15 PM
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Hard question to answer really. Do you have listeners very far off axis?

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post #8 of 34 Old 05-09-2016, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
Hard question to answer really. Do you have listeners very far off axis?

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No, not too far off axis usually. Just wondering if the off axis response is better with the larger guide to help with reflections and such.
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post #9 of 34 Old 05-09-2016, 02:25 PM
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FWIW - if you're looking to place an order "sooner", the 1099 is out_of_stock, as are the Fusion 10 flatpacks.

Last edited by scotthal; 05-09-2016 at 02:26 PM. Reason: Didn't mean to include the quote
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post #10 of 34 Old 05-10-2016, 06:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Dr. Fosgate View Post
How much vertical height do you have for your center? Reason I ask, is if you can fit it, use a trio of Fusion 10s for your LCR.
Not much, maybe 28" from floor to the bottom edge of the projector screen. Which would have the proposed Fusion 10 center 8" from the floor, and would have the L/R waveguides roughly 13-14" offset vertically from the center waveguide. Is that too much distance between them? I know that matching L/C/R is always ideal but is it really that much difference between it and using a 1099 instead? I'm open to whatever, just curious

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post #11 of 34 Old 05-10-2016, 06:02 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by tuxedocivic View Post
Hard question to answer really. Do you have listeners very far off axis?

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Which question are you referring to?

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post #12 of 34 Old 05-10-2016, 06:05 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by scotthal View Post
FWIW - if you're looking to place an order "sooner", the 1099 is out_of_stock, as are the Fusion 10 flatpacks.
Yes I know, I saw that a few days ago. I've actually contacted Erich to see how long it will be before he restocks the F10 flat packs. I'm not really worried about the 1099 right now as I probably won't have time to build it for at least another 30-45 days

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post #13 of 34 Old 05-10-2016, 06:10 AM
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Originally Posted by 1st Cav View Post
As the title suggests I'm trying to make an informed decision on which pair to purchase. But my question is twofold in that I also want to know if its ok to "mix" ...

*Two Fusion 8 Alchemy's with an 893 as the center or
*Two Fusion 10 Pure's with a 1099 as the center

My plan is to purchase the speakers/flatpacks in stages (fronts, center, surrounds) since I've currently got my hands full with other projects around the house and my garage is already busting at the seams. Not to mention the fact that it gives my wallet a chance to recuperate from the infinite baffle project I just completed along with my self diagnosed obsession with all things Amazon Prime, but I digress.

My 7.(soon to be 4) setup will be based around 95% movie watching with the other 5% being split between gaming/music. I rarely listen at reference (maybe -10 below) so ear splitting volume isnt necessary but headroom is always appreciated. With that said, if going the Fusion 8/893 route will get me within arms reach of the same sound quality and dynamics of the Fusion 10/1099 combo, I'd more than welcome the cost savings. Any insight you guys can provide would be greatly appreciated
Both the Fusion 8 Alchemy and Fusion 10 Pure are good designs that have a neutral tonal character. The main differences are cost, size and output capability. The Fusion 10 Pure goes a little louder and a bit lower, but is larger and more expensive. Female vocals and dialog seem to be a tad cleaner with the Fusion 8 Alchemy, a conclusion that both my son and I arrived at independently. The Eminence 8" woofer really has a great midrange for such an economical driver. Both the designs would serve well as center channels assuming the listeners are not too far off axis.
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post #14 of 34 Old 05-10-2016, 06:17 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rkeman View Post
Both the Fusion 8 Alchemy and Fusion 10 Pure are good designs that have a neutral tonal character. The main differences are cost, size and output capability. The Fusion 10 Pure goes a little louder and a bit lower, but is larger and more expensive. Female vocals and dialog seem to be a tad cleaner with the Fusion 8 Alpha, a conclusion that both my son and I arrived at independently. The Eminence 8" woofer really has a great midrange for such an economical driver. Both the designs would serve well as center channels assuming the listeners are not too far off axis.
Thanks for that first hand explanation rkeman! Do you also own the Fusion 10?

For the sake of clarification, you mentioned the Fusion 8 Alpha in the second half of your comment. Was that a mistake or.....?

Do you have any experience with a horizontal center channel vs say the Fusion 8 or 10 and if so how do they compare wrt their off axis sound?




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post #15 of 34 Old 05-10-2016, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by 1st Cav View Post
Thanks for that first hand explanation rkeman! Do you also own the Fusion 10?

For the sake of clarification, you mentioned the Fusion 8 Alpha in the second half of your comment. Was that a mistake or.....?

Do you have any experience with a horizontal center channel vs say the Fusion 8 or 10 and if so how do they compare wrt their off axis sound?




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The Fusion 10 was built for an acquaintance and auditioned extensively prior to installation. The Fusion 8 Alchemy is owned. Either compares favorably to some much more expensive competitors and are easily powered to lease-breaking levels by most AVRs, particularly when paired with a capable subwoofer(s). Horizontally arrayed center channel loudspeakers are not necessary in most situations and often compromise performance compared with installations using identical LCR loudspeakers. Tonal characteristics, output capability and bass response are usually significantly compromised. The dedicated horizontal format center channels that I've auditioned or owned (Definitive Technology, B&W, Magnepan, and others) through the years have never equaled the results obtainable with identical LCR loudspeakers. If the physical layout does not preclude it and there are no extremely off-axis listeners, that is what I recommend.
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post #16 of 34 Old 05-10-2016, 12:19 PM
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Question

I have a strange situation and am interested in the effect the horns will have on my LP. My screen is high on the wall, my speakers are behind the screen. Since they are towers I have them mounted upside down in order to keep the tweeter as close to ear height as possible. My center channel has to be a lot higher, across the plane, in order for the voices to sound like they are coming from the actors/singers. I am considering Fusion 8's LCR, can I mount them upside down, with the horns on bottom? And what will be the effect if the center horn is two feet higher than the LR? Anyone have any ideas?

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post #17 of 34 Old 05-10-2016, 01:31 PM
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I have a strange situation and am interested in the effect the horns will have on my LP. My screen is high on the wall, my speakers are behind the screen. Since they are towers I have them mounted upside down in order to keep the tweeter as close to ear height as possible. My center channel has to be a lot higher, across the plane, in order for the voices to sound like they are coming from the actors/singers. I am considering Fusion 8's LCR, can I mount them upside down, with the horns on bottom? And what will be the effect if the center horn is two feet higher than the LR? Anyone have any ideas?
I have 88 Specials on shelves flanking my TV and have mounted them upside down so that the waveguide is at ear level. This configuration sounds (and measures in REW) much better than the "right-side-up" configuration. There is no problem with them "upside down".
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post #18 of 34 Old 05-10-2016, 05:38 PM - Thread Starter
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I have 88 Specials on shelves flanking my TV and have mounted them upside down so that the waveguide is at ear level. This configuration sounds (and measures in REW) much better than the "right-side-up" configuration. There is no problem with them "upside down".
Very interesting and good to know that flipping them doesnt hinder their performance
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post #19 of 34 Old 05-10-2016, 05:58 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rkeman View Post
Horizontally arrayed center channel loudspeakers are not necessary in most situations and often compromise performance compared with installations using identical LCR loudspeakers. Tonal characteristics, output capability and bass response are usually significantly compromised. The dedicated horizontal format center channels that I've auditioned or owned (Definitive Technology, B&W, Magnepan, and others) through the years have never equaled the results obtainable with identical LCR loudspeakers. If the physical layout does not preclude it and there are no extremely off-axis listeners, that is what I recommend.
Upon further consideration and with credit to @rkeman and others I believe that i'm going to go with three identical speakers for my L/C/R. Also, since there's currently no flat pack (and no scheduled date for when they'll be in stock again) for the Fusion 10, and there doesn't seem to be a huge difference wrt to sound quality between it and the Fusion 8 Alchemy (not to mention that its available now) I think I'm just gonna order the latter.
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post #20 of 34 Old 05-10-2016, 07:34 PM
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Upon further consideration and with credit to @rkeman and others I believe that i'm going to go with three identical speakers for my L/C/R. Also, since there's currently no flat pack (and no scheduled date for when they'll be in stock again) for the Fusion 10, and there doesn't seem to be a huge difference wrt to sound quality between it and the Fusion 8 Alchemy (not to mention that its available now) I think I'm just gonna order the latter.
I will be doing the same, thanks for the info and the thread. It seems like a good bang for the buck. Plus, they can always be cycled into surrounds.
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post #21 of 34 Old 05-11-2016, 07:23 AM
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Originally Posted by rkeman View Post
Both the Fusion 8 Alchemy and Fusion 10 Pure are good designs that have a neutral tonal character. The main differences are cost, size and output capability. The Fusion 10 Pure goes a little louder and a bit lower, but is larger and more expensive. Female vocals and dialog seem to be a tad cleaner with the Fusion 8 Alchemy, a conclusion that both my son and I arrived at independently. The Eminence 8" woofer really has a great midrange for such an economical driver. Both the designs would serve well as center channels assuming the listeners are not too far off axis.
Can someone clarify this for me? We are talking about a vertical 2-way and keeping it oriented vertically, right? I don't understand why the bold says there would be any more off axis problems with this design vs. 1099 horizontally. Does my question make sense? @tuxedocivic
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post #22 of 34 Old 05-11-2016, 11:31 AM
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I dont think there would be either. Both the Fusion 8 and 10 should be good to 45 degrees in either direction of the main listening position. Thats quite wide.

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post #23 of 34 Old 05-11-2016, 05:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Fusion 8 Alchemy order placed! Really looking forward to seeing how these bad boys sound. As stated before, if they don't work out as mains I can always slide them over as surrounds. Let the fun begin!

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post #24 of 34 Old 05-11-2016, 05:23 PM - Thread Starter
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@JohnDean are you busy this weekend? If you're willing, I think I could use some assistance in fine tuning my IB setup before the Fusion 8's get here

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post #25 of 34 Old 05-12-2016, 06:50 AM
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@1st Cav I'm flexible Saturday and Sunday. I don't have a lot of experience tuning but would love to hear it and I'm sure we can get it sorted fairly well.

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Was waffling on the Fusion 8 :: Fusion 10 choice myself; availability & tuxedocivic's comment on polar response: "Both the Fusion 8 and 10 should be good to 45 degrees in either direction of the main listening position." convinced me to go with the Fusion 8.

3-pack (as always, superbly packaged by EricH) just arrived on the front porch.

Speaking as a senior citizen, am glad I went with the light(er) weight alternative.

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post #27 of 34 Old 05-19-2016, 07:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Was waffling on the Fusion 8 :: Fusion 10 choice myself; availability & tuxedocivic's comment on polar response: "Both the Fusion 8 and 10 should be good to 45 degrees in either direction of the main listening position." convinced me to go with the Fusion 8.

3-pack (as always, superbly packaged by EricH) just arrived on the front porch.

Speaking as a senior citizen, am glad I went with the light(er) weight alternative.
@scotthal , congrats on the new speakers, I'm semi-patiently waiting on my Fusion 8's as well. Out of curiosity, how long did it take you to receive yours from date of purchase to having them on your doorstep?

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post #28 of 34 Old 05-19-2016, 08:35 PM
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@scotthal , congrats on the new speakers, I'm semi-patiently waiting on my Fusion 8's as well. Out of curiosity, how long did it take you to receive yours from date of purchase to having them on your doorstep?

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Order placed 05/11, shipped 05/13, arrived 05/18 ... just got back from buying a few more clamps @harbor Freight. Am psyched.
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post #29 of 34 Old 05-19-2016, 08:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Order placed 05/11, shipped 05/13, arrived 05/18 ... just got back from buying a few more clamps @harbor Freight. Am psyched.
Interesting. I placed my order on the same date (5/11) and still haven't even received a shipping email yet, my order is still showing as "processing". Guess it's time to shoot Erich an email.

I pass the only local Harbor Freight in my area once every weekend. And for the past few weekends I've stopped in to grab 2-4 clamps every time. Can't ever have too many clamps right?

If you don't mind, after you get your 8's built maybe you can leave a brief impression here

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post #30 of 34 Old 05-20-2016, 02:23 PM
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Interesting. I placed my order on the same date (5/11) and still haven't even received a shipping email yet, my order is still showing as "processing". Guess it's time to shoot Erich an email.
It usually takes 5-8 days for shipping. You got the assembled crossovers and sometimes that adds a day if things are busy. They were packaged up on the 19th but it was too late to get them to FedEx, so they went out today.
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